Nostalgia Draft - R1: P-Nut vs TheReligion

[Physiocrat]

P-Nut

TheReligion

P-Nut

Seaman (95-98)
Ramos (08-11) Stam (98-01)Matthaus (96-99) Maldini (94-97)
Carrick (10-13) Vieira (98-01)
Nani (09-12) Muller (09-12) Bergkamp (92-95) Leonardo (97-00)

Pretty self explanatory line up.

Absolutely rock solid defense with all time greats throughout. A late change means Matthaus actually does slot in to his libero role to fit the time frame for this draft, and in between Stam and Maldini has the license to push on and help Carrick and Vieira control the game when needed.

Midfield 2 provide a blend of control and power, with both being defensively sound, Carrick more of a pass interceptor and marking space, with Vieira the more physically dominant battler in midfield.

Up top we've gone for an attacking 4 in order to pull the defence around like crazy. Leonardo and Nani start out wide keeping the full backs honest throughout and not allowing them to collapse centrally and deny the space. Bergkamp and Muller has the potential to be mightily entertaining. Bergkamp will pull the centre backs with him as he pulls away from his marker to get on the ball and I don't think there's a better player at finding the space created by his teammates than Thomas Muller.

TheReligion


4222 - Fluid, plenty of movement, high energy

Taffarel; quick of his line and comfortable with the ball at his feet. The ideal goalkeeper to build attacks and help sweep in behind however in this system he will not be a sweeper keeper primarily given who he has in front of him but a nice option to have should the need arise.

Standard back four set up with de Boer acting as the main ball playing defender and Couto as the stopper. Perfect balance of left/right foot with both competent with the ball all their feet and de Boer in particular able to utilise his long passing ability into forward areas as a tool to beat high pressing and to help quickly start attacks. Couto ear marked to take on any ariel duels with de Boer or Makelele tidying up the loose ball.

Two fullbacks both with powerful engines capable both offensively and defensively in Lizarazu and Dani Alves. High workrate, pace and tactical understanding to help balance forward phases of play. i.e one goes, both go, neither go. Both encouraged to create overloads in wide areas and given their crossing ability get the ball into the box.

The central midfield duo of Makelele and Seedorf consists of a destroyer and a playmaker with Seedorf one of the best all round midfielders to grace the game. Capable of dropping into the 6 role to collect the ball when building attacks and going into the 8 role when in possession. Makelele will reprise his DM role screening the back four. His underrated deep lying passing ability useful in building from the back when receiving the ball.

Hagi and Scholl are my two fluid inside forwards, dropping in, coming central, testing the width. Hagi with more license to roam in central areas. This brings the best out of him creatively and prevents him from becoming frustrated. Both are technically excellent, mobile players who can isolate weaknesses and exploit them. Capable of carrying the ball and dribbling past their opponent or picking incisive passes.

Weah will look to drop slightly deeper and in the left of centre areas to utilise his ball carrying ability, pace and power. This also helps to create space for Hagi to roam. Trezeguet reprises the role of the classic number 9 one which he is perfect for; left foot, right foot or head.


Taffarel - Greatest Brazilian keeper of all time with a true modern day style, quick off his line and comfortable in possession, good distribution, excellent reflexes and superb shot stopping ability - Peak 98-01 (World Cup winner, FIFA World XI, Brazilian football hall of famer)

Lizarazu - Bayern hall of fame inductee, energetic, reliable, defensively solid, mobile and with an excellent engine. Perfectly balanced full back going forward and defensively - Peak 98-01 (UEFA team of the year, FIFA World XI, Champions League winner, World Cup and Euro winner)

F. de Boer - Left footed, technically superb at reading the game and excellent distribution and long passing ability - Peak 98-01 - (FIFA World Cup All Star, Euros All Star, La Liga and Champions League winner, 112 caps for Netherlands)

Couto - Right footed for balance, playing the stopper role yet equally comfortable playing out, tough and uncompromising, powerful in the air - Peak 96-99 (La Liga and Serie A winner, Two time UEFA Super Cup and CWC winner, 110 caps for national team and part of Portuguese Golden Generation)

Dani Alves - Best offensive full back of his generation, excellent mobility, passing and crossing ability, overlapping runs to give width, powerful engine, strong, tenacious with high energy and workrate - Peak 07-10 (Eight time FIFA world XI member, Five time UEFA team of the year, La Liga defender of the season, Three time Champions League winner, player with most collective honours ever)

Seedorf - Complete midfielder; pace, stamina, strength, technical ability and creativity. Equally good defensively and devastating going forward - box to box role - Peak 06-09 (Four time Champions League winner, two time UEFA team of the year, UEFA best midfielder award, FIFA 100 inductee)

Makelele - That good they named his holding role after him, great reader of the game and perfect shield for the defence. Underrated DLP ability with excellent short passing and tactical and positional discipline - ball winner - Peak 04-07 (FIFA World XI pick, Champions League winner)

Hagi - Showman, playmaker, creative genius and absolute character, quick, two footed and comfortable in any forward areas, his understanding of space and technical ability is unrivalled at his peak - number 10 - Peak 94-97 (FIFA WC All Star, FIFA 100 inductee, 4th place Ballon d'Or, FIFA World XI pick)

Scholl - Bayern best of all time XI and hall of fame inductee, superb passer, dribbler and creative gem, capable of playing left right or centrally the perfect attacking midfielder - Peak 99-02 (Euro winner, Champions League winner and multiple German player of the season)

Weah - Strong, physical, quick, superb dribbler and excellent finisher, all round multi functional forward, Ballon d'Or winner, FIFA world player of the year, who Henry modelled his game on - Peak 94-97 (Ballon d'Or winner, FIFA 100 inductee)

Trezeguet - Two footed complete number 9, quick, powerful, strong and brilliant with the ball at his feet or in the air, absolutely clinical with perfect position sense and awareness inside the 18 yard box - Peak 00-03 (UEFA team of year, Serie A player of the year, World Cup and Euro winning FIFA 100 inductee)

Others;
Rustu
Marquez
Bebeto
Gerrard (Inj)

 

[Physiocrat]

@harms @Invictus Poll please

@P-Nut @TheReligion

Game on!

 

[TheReligion]

@harms @Invictus Poll please

@P-Nut @TheReligion

Game on!

Thanks for sorting out. Good luck @P-Nut.

 

[TheReligion]

@RedSky

 

[harms]

Generally I don't think that Müller's strength is getting on the end of through-balls though. He's certainly best playing centrally behind a proper striker with full freedom to move around, finding and creating space, creating numerical advantages etc. They actually overlap a lot with Bergkamp, even though they couldn't look more different.

I could see them playing together in a 3-4-1-2 with a number 9 ahead of them — and even than I wouldn't think that it would be ideal, but with 2 wingers on either side?

I appreciate the bold tactical move and don't want to write it off based on my inner conservatism, but I really think that this set up doesn't exploit Müller's strengths to the fullest.

 

[Gio]

Generally I don't think that Müller's strength is getting on the end of through-balls though. He's certainly best playing centrally behind a proper striker with full freedom to move around, finding and creating space, creating numerical advantages etc. They actually overlap a lot with Bergkamp, even though they couldn't look more different.

I could almost see it working with Bergkamp as the 9 and Muller in the hole, where in practice they'd switch - Bergkamp would drop off to take the ball in, while Muller would hit the vacated space.

 

[harms]

I could almost see it working with Bergkamp as the 9 and Muller in the hole, where in practice they'd switch - Bergkamp would drop off to take the ball in, while Muller would hit the vacated space.

Yeah, that was something that I've tried to envision, but in the end couldn't convince myself. Add someone like Stoichkov in Leonardo's place and it would've been much better, but the combination of his wingers & centre forwards just doesn't do it for me. So the issue isn't just those two as a partnership.

Basically the beauty of Müller is that he is capable of finding free space anywhere, and with the dynamic described below you're actually limiting him to make those forward runs a la Boniek/Rummenigge/Henry, waiting to get the ball from Bergkamp. And Müller does slightly different things with the space than those two do — he isn't that fast, for example, but he always creates passing options, overlaps, numerical advantages in close spaces etc., that make the whole team click.

Bergkamp will pull the centre backs with him as he pulls away from his marker to get on the ball and I don't think there's a better player at finding the space created by his teammates than Thomas Muller.

 

[P-Nut]

Generally I don't think that Müller's strength is getting on the end of through-balls though. He's certainly best playing centrally behind a proper striker with full freedom to move around, finding and creating space, creating numerical advantages etc. They actually overlap a lot with Bergkamp, even though they couldn't look more different.

I could see them playing together in a 3-4-1-2 with a number 9 ahead of them — and even than I wouldn't think that it would be ideal, but with 2 wingers on either side?

I appreciate the bold tactical move and don't want to write it off based on my inner conservatism, but I really think that this set up doesn't exploit Müller's strengths to the fullest.

The 3 year peak I picked for Bergkamp is sort of down to the overlap between the 2. I went for his more goalscoring years rather than his later, more creative years simply as him and Muller are very similar. By picking the more striker version of Bergkamp it allows Muller to play his more natural game and allows Bergkamp to be the more leading striker whilst both are comfortable at pulling the opposition defence out of position and both are capable of taking advantage of those spaces left behind.

 

[P-Nut]

Yeah, that was something that I've tried to envision, but in the end couldn't convince myself. Add someone like Stoichkov in Leonardo's place and it would've been much better, but the combination of his wingers & centre forwards just doesn't do it for me. So the issue isn't just those two as a partnership.

Basically the beauty of Müller is that he is capable of finding free space anywhere, and with the dynamic described below you're actually limiting him to make those forward runs a la Boniek/Rummenigge/Henry, waiting to get the ball from Bergkamp. And Müller does slightly different things with the space than those two do — he isn't that fast, for example, but he always creates passing options, overlaps, numerical advantages in close spaces etc., that make the whole team click.

To be fair that quote I should probably have highlighted that it works both ways round. Ball on the left wing and Bergkamp would probably be the one dropping a little deeper to create passing options, and the same can happen on the opposite side with Muller dropping into those half spaces. It is meant to be quite fluid between the 2 of them and I think both are smart enough to thrive off of one another.

 

[Isotope]

Yeah, that was something that I've tried to envision, but in the end couldn't convince myself. Add someone like Stoichkov in Leonardo's place and it would've been much better, but the combination of his wingers & centre forwards just doesn't do it for me. So the issue isn't just those two as a partnership.

Basically the beauty of Müller is that he is capable of finding free space anywhere, and with the dynamic described below you're actually limiting him to make those forward runs a la Boniek/Rummenigge/Henry, waiting to get the ball from Bergkamp. And Müller does slightly different things with the space than those two do — he isn't that fast, for example, but he always creates passing options, overlaps, numerical advantages in close spaces etc., that make the whole team click.

Germany has Havertz and Muller up front. And Havertz is kinda similar to Bergkamp (maybe on his Ajax's days). For one game it worked well (the other was not so). But agreed, a wing forward would be more ideal.

 

[harms]

Germany has Havertz and Muller up front. And Havertz is kinda similar to Bergkamp (maybe on his Ajax's days). For one game it worked well (the other was not so). But agreed, a wing forward would be more ideal.

It certainly wasn’t the best Müller that I’ve seen though and they’ve also had Gnabry there as a third, most direct, option (and two wingbacks on either side).

I understand the idea, I think I’ve tried to do similar thing with Cruyff/Zico in 4-4-2 (or, at least, thought of it), but he really needs a rapid wing forward to fully exploit both of them.

 

[Isotope]

It certainly wasn’t the best Müller that I’ve seen though and they’ve also had Gnabry there as a third, most direct, option (and two wingbacks on either side).

I understand the idea, I think I’ve tried to do similar thing with Cruyff/Zico in 4-4-2 (or, at least, thought of it), but he really needs a rapid wing forward to fully exploit both of them.

True . I forgot about Gnabry.

 

[P-Nut]

True . I forgot about Gnabry.

To be fair I do have Nani in the side as the more direct winger of the 2.

 

[antohan]

Both teams looking pretty gung-ho here. Can't really picture either team at work though. Will have to check in again later, read up and see if it's clearer.

Gather why @P-Nut picked that Bergkamp version but he had a really lousy time at club level. He stank in Serie A but performed in Europe, mind, a bit like Verón with us, and this looks more like the latter kind of game.

 

[TheReligion]

RE Bergkamp.

He was scared of flying and missed lots of big games. You can't pick him and have any confidence he'd make the kick off.

 

[Physiocrat]

@P-Nut How often did Leonardo play on the left wing? I always remembered him playing more on the right for the Brazil NT.

 

[P-Nut]

RE Bergkamp.

He was scared of flying and missed lots of big games. You can't pick him and have any confidence he'd make the kick off.

due to my name being first I think we can count this as a home game so he'd be fine.

 

[P-Nut]

@P-Nut How often did Leonardo play on the left wing? I always remembered him playing more on the right for the Brazil NT.

According to transfermarkt which obviously misses a lot of games they have him as 41 right midfield and 27 left wing, but he has got appearances in basically every position on the field barring centre back.

Here he'll be able to link quite well and add to the fluidity of that front line. With the 2 man midfield I wanted a wide player capable of being the link and picking the ball up on the half turn between the lines. Having him stuck purely out wide with the forward line we have got would make no sense, he's much better off playing one twos from out wide and driving towards the goal on the diagonals from out wide.

Also I know everyone hates wiki, but they have him as an AM with LW being his secondary position.

 

[TheReligion]

@P-Nut is Mr Matthaus playing the sweeper role here?

 

[Physiocrat]

According to transfermarkt which obviously misses a lot of games they have him as 41 right midfield and 27 left wing, but he has got appearances in basically every position on the field barring centre back.

Here he'll be able to link quite well and add to the fluidity of that front line. With the 2 man midfield I wanted a wide player capable of being the link and picking the ball up on the half turn between the lines. Having him stuck purely out wide with the forward line we have got would make no sense, he's much better off playing one twos from out wide and driving towards the goal on the diagonals from out wide.

Also I know everyone hates wiki, but they have him as an AM with LW being his secondary position.

Fair enough. I think he can play well in this role although a more attacking LB would be preferable - that said Maldini is underrated going forward although I am not sure how much he can get forward if Matthaus is a libero.

My main quandary here is that like the others I am unsure of the Bergkamp- Muller pairing but Weah and Trezeguet (I was never the biggest fan of his) are up against much better CBs.

 

[TheReligion]

Fair enough. I think he can play well in this role although a more attacking LB would be preferable - that said Maldini is underrated going forward although I am not sure how much he can get forward if Matthaus is a libero.

My main quandary here is that like the others I am unsure of the Bergkamp- Muller pairing but Weah and Trezeguet (I was never the biggest fan of his) are up against much better CBs.

I concede the CB point although I do feel de Boer and Couto are a well balanced pairing and very capable.

I think if Matthaus is pushing on with the ball in his role then there's little scope for Maldini or Ramos to impact play from wide areas as they'd surely compact in to a three with Stam. At that point if the ball is turned over I'm unsure how that set up copes with Weah, Hagi, Scholl and the wide overlaps of Lizarazu and Dani Alves. Stam would have to pick up Trezeguet I imagine.

I feel my left hand side would cause alot of problems for Nani and Ramos with the latter arguably not in his peak CB position.

 

[TheReligion]

Also with the shooting power from range Hagi, Seedorf, Scholl and F. de Boer have I'd be getting less concerned about Bergkamp not getting on the plane and more concerned about this happening..

 

[P-Nut]

@P-Nut is Mr Matthaus playing the sweeper role here?

that said Maldini is underrated going forward although I am not sure how much he can get forward if Matthaus is a libero.

Matthaus version of the libero role was vastly different to the Beckenbauer version of the role though, he may well step up into the DM position, but it was never as attacking as Beckenbauer, or for instance Sammer would perform the role. Its basically what a ball playing centre back would do today, carry the ball a couple of extra yards before playing a pass with better angles and options.

In the defensive phase, and during sustained possession he has the option to step up and engage and collapsing the defence as @TheReligion mentioned, which forms that back 3, or staying in his spot with Carrick and Vieira covering the centre and having a traditional back 4.

I'm not too worried about the overlapping problems when I step into a back 3 as that leaves a huge counter attacking possibility if both your full backs are bombing that far forward and with a tight defense made up of all time Goats (Ramos not at his all time peak) more often than not, I'm going to win that ball back and be able to spring those quick counters.

 

[TheReligion]

I think these two are kinda going under the radar a bit here..



Quick one twos, overlapping runs, pin point crosses and the odd goal thrown in for good measure.

Two of the best in the business and also defensively sound all round

 

[Physiocrat]

I can't split this. If Hagi turns up The Religion will win but I don't know whether he will.

 

[TheReligion]

I can't split this. If Hagi turns up The Religion will win but I don't know whether he will.

My man management skills are top notch. I know how to bring the best out of the little magician.

 

[Gio]

I can't split this. If Hagi turns up The Religion will win but I don't know whether he will.

This.

 

[antohan]

Also with the shooting power from range Hagi, Seedorf, Scholl and F. de Boer have I'd be getting less concerned about Bergkamp not getting on the plane and more concerned about this happening..

With Seaman you always expect the Nayim and Goofy goals getting brought up. Had never see the third though. That nails him down as a GOAT... of memes

 

[antohan]

@P-Nut defence is great, Matthäus role clear, midfield is fine, front four still doesn't do it for me. Not at all.

@the Religion has more clearly defined ways to go about getting the goals required. Hagi turning up would make it more comfortable, but I just can't see him conceding. Once at most.

 

[antohan]

@TheReligion /\ /\

 

[TheReligion]

Well played @P-Nut

Thanks @antohan

 

[P-Nut]

Well played @P-Nut

Thanks @antohan

You to mate, suprised this was as close, messed up my attack massively, and the defence was originally being built to work in a WM, but I realised I didn't have anything like the attack to make it work.