Nostalgia Draft - R1: Physiocrat vs Sjor Bepo

[Synco]

Team Physio ________________________________________________________ Team Bepo

Team Physiocrat

Tactics – Attacking

Formation - 4231

Defensive Line Balanced

Marking – Zonal

Inspired by the Brazilian sides of the 1990s but with a hardworking 10 instead of a second-striker. The front four is fluid and will get the best out of Rivaldo: he has licence to roam score and create as well as utilise his crossing ability. David Silva reprises his Spain role as a hardworking wide playmaker. Aimar in the centre can exploit his exceptional dribbling ability and with Ballon d'or winning Shevchenko roaming across the front line he will have many opportunities for through balls.

Mihajlovic will be the tenacious DLP, utilising his excellent long-passing - he will clearly be a huge threat from set pieces (note this is the younger Mihajlovic who could still actually run). Mascherano will screen the back four and will drop into the CB position when needed. Both Mihajlovic will be positionally reserved to allow Jorginho to push high up and offer a lot in attack. Thiago Silva and Thuram are excellent defenders and athletes who will be comfortable pushing wider when needed when Bepo plays on the counter.

In goal we have the excellent Cesar the last man in defence of the excellent Mourinho Inter side.

Motto - score more than the opposition.

Spoiler: Player Peaks and Achievements

Julio Cesar - (07-10)

• Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year: 2008–09, 2009–10
• IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper Bronze Ball: 2009
• IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper Silver Ball: 2010
• UEFA Club Goalkeeper of the Year: 2009–10
• ESM Team of the Year: 2009–10
• Pirata d'Oro (Internazionale Player Of The Year): 2010[56]

Jorghino - (92-95)

• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1994

Antonio Benarrivo - (92-95)

Lilian Thuram - (97-00)

• French Player of the Year: 1997
• Guerin d'Oro: 1997
• FIFA World Cup Bronze Ball: 1998
• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998
• ESM Team of the Year: 1998–99

Thiago Silva - (09-12)

Sinsa Mihajlovic - (97-00)

• ESM Team of the Year: 1998–99, 1999–00[95]
• FR Yugoslavia player of the Year: 1999

Javier Mascherano (08-11)

David Silva (09-12)

Rivaldo - (97-00)

• La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 1997–98
• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (2): 1998
• ESM Team of the Year (2): 1998–99, 1999–2000
• World Soccer Player of the Year: 1999
• Onze d'Or: 1999
• Ballon d'Or: 1999
• FIFA World Player of the Year: 1999
• Copa América top goalscorer: 1999
• Copa América Player of the Tournament: 1999
• UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 1999–2000
• IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer: 2000
• FIFA World Player of the Year: Bronze award 2000

Pablo Aimar - (01-04)

• UEFA Champions League: Top Assists 2002–03

Andriy Shevchenko - (03-06)

• Ballon d'Or: 2004
• ESM Team of the Year: 2003–04, 2004–05
• UEFA Team of the Year: 2004, 2005
• Serie A Goal of the Year: 2004
• FIFPro World XI: 2005
• L'Équipe Team of the Year: 2004, 2005

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Team Bepo

Tactics

Theme - Sjor personal favorites
Given the theme, natural order was to go with my biggest football regret alongside Ravel Morrison fecking up his talent and thats the fact that Paul Scholes didnt peaked in the same period as the rest of that 99 midfield, even with that they were one of the best midfields i ever seen but i reckon older Scholes would elevate them even more and the partnership with Keano would be epic.
Playing style - football bloody hell or to be precise, the good old Fergie way. Fast, direct football with a pinch of possession - all players excelled in similar setups, half of the team are Fergie players anyways, or the ones that he was a massive fan of like Savicevic and Viduka.


Individual Roles and Partnerships
Back 3 we start with the most intelligent keeper of all time, just has every single quality you want in a keeper. In front we have a natural sweeper/stopper combo but whats interesting, both have a touch of the other as well so id love to see those two play together. Billy who has a great reading of the game and is more of a complete centerback then a stopper and Carvalho who is pretty aggressive for a sweeper - or how new kids on the block wants to call them - ball playing centerback.

On the right attacking sensation from Romania in Petrescu who should form a lovely partnership with Beckham, judging by those winger list we doing currently IMO most underrated winger ever but hey, people like flair and dribbling i get it. Works harder then anyone else, isnt selfish, tactically astute, uses the ball good and even all that alone makes him a great player but then you add his end product and you get what you get, a perfect wide midfielder.
On the left an unconventional partnership but staying true to the theme as Fergie loved a good surprise. Albert Ferrer, on of the forgotten players of his era. Absolutely brilliant defender who was often in charge of marking the opposition star attacker and in addition to that he was a natural footballer, very good on the ball, often being used in a very attacking role as well. Usually a rightback but i know he played some games on the left in a back three, wont lie dont know if he played as a left fullback but for the role i need him a back three should be okay as i wanted him to stay back and protect while in front Dejo will almost have a free role to do what he does best and thats cause havoc. Scholes is probably the best ever in isolating players into 1v1 situations, reckon Dejo would absolutely adore him.

Already touched on Keano and Scholes, latter would dictate the game while other will go to war.

King between the lines, same role he had for Fergie its just the quality around him is so much greater so he wouldnt need to drop that much so he can focus on magic in the final third.
Fatso Viduka up front, absolute nightmare to play against as he was huge yet pretty agile and nimble with a soft touch and quick feet. One of the best strikers in the PL in that era, im sure a lot of defenders still have nightmares, some fans as well (bless the scousers).

 

[Synco]

Here we go @Physiocrat @Šjor Bepo - good luck!

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks for setting up @Synco

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Thanks for setting up @Synco

Good luck and cheers synco

 

[P-Nut]

Bepo is Beckham meant to be 98 - 01 I'm guessing

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Bepo is Beckham meant to be 98 - 01 I'm guessing

Yeah

 

[Physiocrat]

Very nice Fergie tribute @Šjor Bepo

I can see Fergie putting together a side like that. It is rather similar to when he had Ronaldo at LM and Hargo at RM. The only difference here is that the attacking full-back is on the other flank.

I do think though I will have more control of the game with Aimar as a 10 as opposed to a classic second-striker in Cantona. Also given the Sheva's incredible pace and movement I think I will make the additional possession pay. On an individual level I think Sheva will have an easier time than Viduka will against Thuram and Silva.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I do think though I will have more control of the game with Aimar as a 10 as opposed to a classic second-striker in Cantona. Also given the Sheva's incredible pace and movement I think I will make the additional possession pay. On an individual level I think Sheva will have an easier time than Viduka will against Thuram and Silva.

You dont control a game with a number 10, Keane and Scholes absolutely shit on a midfield of Mihajlovic(id sort of buy Zvezda version in the role though not at this level though) and Mascherano(who is good but only in defensive systems).
Though id love you to “control” the game via possession as that suits my gameplan perfectly + i really dont your midfield, specially for a possession setup.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Don't like Sjor's left flank but that aside, lovely team!

Not sure of Physio's midfield player quality, but seems more balanced.

Think Physio has the edge, but just can't rule out Sjor's team with their Fergie mindset.

Tough this.

 

[harms]

Viduka Never liked him that much.

 

[Physiocrat]

You dont control a game with a number 10, Keane and Scholes absolutely shit on a midfield of Mihajlovic(id sort of buy Zvezda version in the role though not at this level though) and Mascherano(who is good but only in defensive systems).
Though id love you to “control” the game via possession as that suits my gameplan perfectly + i really dont your midfield, specially for a possession setup.

The Brazilian sides of the 90s weren't possession sides in the style of Pep although they were less vertical than the traditional Fergie sides and consequently will have more possession overall - maybe 55% max but enough that it is noticeable. One of the reasons for the lower level of verticality is the 10 rather than the second-striker. This is especially true when Aimar was more of an 10/8 rather than 10/9.

On Mascherano he is relatively limited on the ball although he is tidy (Pep would never have bought him otherwise) and will have lots of options so won't be a huge issue.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

The Brazilian sides of the 90s weren't possession sides in the style of Pep although they were less vertical than the traditional Fergie sides and consequently will have more possession overall - maybe 55% max but enough that it is noticeable. One of the reasons for the lower level of verticality is the 10 rather than the second-striker. This is especially true when Aimar was more of an 10/8 rather than 10/9.

On Mascherano he is relatively limited on the ball although he is tidy (Pep would never have bought him otherwise) and will have lots of options so won't be a huge issue.

I agree you get more from the n10 then a ss but midfield plays a much bigger role then the difference between a 10 and a creative ss like Cantona.

Only reason why you would have a bigger possession is because we let you have it, if both teams were going for it its a no contest because the gap between midfields is way too big.

Pep signings are generally poor tbf and yes he did sign him and then moved him to a centerback because he couldnt play in a possession setup as a midfielder.

 

[antohan]

First impressions

1) The years next to each name really detract from getting a feel for what's going on at all. Feck that, I'll link it and just specifically mention where relevant (e.g. Scholes version, fair enough)

2) Not sure what the point is in putting Ferrer as 91-94 when it starts in 92. Have no recollection of ever seeing him play leftback and his core strength was flying up the flank in attacking moves, which isn't even his job here. Several unpicked leftbacks would do a better job.

3) Disgusted that Benarrivo doesn't even deserve a mention in Physio's gameplan or a list of achievements. Best fullback on the pitch as far as I'm concerned. Poor Antonio is upset at all this invulnerable T1-2 picks thing, else he knows I would have avoided this travesty.

4) Would be interesting to include subs and who was the injured party. Seems pretty obvious that midfield can't possibly be Physio's original idea? Was Mihajlovic meant to play leftback? If so, back to 3)

5) Pretty sure both teams will score here. Physio's attack will give that defence an absolutely torrid time, complete mismatch. Bepo has a more evenly matched contest but I can see him a lot more on top of controlling the game.

Who scores more? A big part of the outcome is probably how either team can deal with scoring/conceding first. I'll mull over that.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not sure how many watched him or even how many remember Mark Viduka as PL wasnt as popular as today + Leeds were not that fashionable even though they had great success. feck i adored him at the time and even before from the Dinamo days yet completely forgot until this draft! Perfect number 9 so not a surprise Fergie wanted to sign him and personally im gutted it didnt happen

“Sir Alex Ferguson very rarely asked me about anyone, He (Viduka) was one of the players he asked me about,” Bosnich said.

“When he used to ask me about someone, it was either because something (bad) had happened ... or because he was interested in signing them.

“He doesn’t ask about anyone.”

Bosnich said it was a well-known rumour at the time that AC Milan were willing to stump up huge cash for Viduka, who ultimately rejected United remained at Leeds until joining Middlesbrough in 2004.

Here is the goals compilation, honestly one of the best you will ever see

Sadly there is no match compilations(note for my future self) but check this, shows some of his arsenal in all-around play + not many can say they wipped the floor with Alessandro Nesta!

Still not convinced? Sadly we dont have Liverpool fans in our draft community so can only tag someone that is closest to that - @Šjor Bepo

Best thing about that? His post match interview: "I dont think i had an exceptionally good game"

 

[Šjor Bepo]

2) Not sure what the point is in putting Ferrer as 91-94 when it starts in 92. Have no recollection of ever seeing him play leftback and his core strength was flying up the flank in attacking moves, which isn't even his job here. Several unpicked leftbacks would do a better job.

Yeah i fecked up with peak for Ferrer, should be 92-95.
Im sure there are better leftbacks then Ferrer that went unpicked but also i dont care, this draft was never about quality for me. Regarding his style and role, yes he is more famous for his attacking side but he was also an exceptional defender that was often used to stop best individuals of the opposition team, here he is bullying Roberto Mancini:

Recently watched few el clasicos from the 90s(albeit from the 97) and he was doing the same to a leftflank of Roberto Carlos and Raul.

 

[antohan]

Yeah i fecked up with peak for Ferrer, should be 92-95.
Im sure there are better leftbacks then Ferrer that went unpicked but also i dont care, this draft was never about quality for me. Regarding his style and role, yes he is more famous for his attacking side but he was also an exceptional defender that was often used to stop best individuals of the opposition team, here he is bullying Roberto Mancini:

Recently watched few el clasicos from the 90s(albeit from the 97) and he was doing the same to a leftflank of Roberto Carlos and Raul.

Two things:

1) He was playing in a completely different setup to yours and facing a different challenge. Yeah, Ferrer had all the right attributes for an uber-attacking Barca, more so when the oppo were a defensive Italian side punting the ball upfield.

2) Clip is actually 91-92 season

If you have it fresh in your memory you should actually make a clip of how he went about dealing with Carlos and Raúl as, despite being on his favoured side, it is much more in line with what he is facing here with Jorginho and David Silva.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Two things:

1) He was playing in a completely different setup to yours and facing a different challenge. Yeah, Ferrer had all the right attributes for an uber-attacking Barca, more so when the oppo were a defensive Italian side punting the ball upfield.

2) Clip is actually 91-92 season

If you have it fresh in your memory you should actually make a clip of how he went about dealing with Carlos and Raúl as, despite being on his favoured side, it is much more in line with what he is facing here with Jorginho and David Silva.

1. Ohh of course, just wanted to present his defensive side as i know he is more known for his attacking. I mean you have to be a good defender to play in a back three which he often did, no matter the phylosophy.

2. Fits like a glove to a presented peak

If i could do it from memory it would be done in matter of seconds, cant be bothered to watch the same game so soon just to make a point in a draft game, id rather lose.

 

[Physiocrat]

3) Disgusted that Benarrivo doesn't even deserve a mention in Physio's gameplan or a list of achievements. Best fullback on the pitch as far as I'm concerned. Poor Antonio is upset at all this invulnerable T1-2 picks thing, else he knows I would have avoided this travesty.

He is. I got lazy and didn't mention either full-back. He will be a great foil for Rivaldo going forward and of course will defend well against Beckham, not that Beckham will advance to the penalty box level that often.

4) Would be interesting to include subs and who was the injured party. Seems pretty obvious that midfield can't possibly be Physio's original idea? Was Mihajlovic meant to play leftback? If so, back to 3)

My subs are Serginho and Christian Vieri. Mihajlovic was an all-round pick to play either CM or CB. Albertini got injured

5) Pretty sure both teams will score here. Physio's attack will give that defence an absolutely torrid time, complete mismatch. Bepo has a more evenly matched contest but I can see him a lot more on top of controlling the game.

True. Shevchenko and Rivaldo will be a huge threat that I don't see Bepo repelling. Let it also not be forgotten that Shevchenko and Rivaldo are Ballon d'Or winners up against a decent but not great defence. I fancy Thiago Silva and Thuram having the muscle to keep Viduka relatively quiet.

On my midfield I don't think Rivaldo's off the ball work should be discounted. In the Brazil Denmark game in 98 Rivaldo put a proper shift in defensively. My midfield 5 is really a 5 off the ball and can mitigate any deficiencies my double pivot may have

 

[Earvin Johnson]

Props to both of you guys, both teams look amazing. Few thoughts for now :

Isn't choosing to play in a 4-4-2 kinda risky against a 4-2-3-1 ? Physiocrat team could easily outnumber the opposition in the midfield, assuring them control of the game, but on the other hand, the pair Mascherano-Mihajlovic don't seem like the most technically gifted. So if Bepo is playing with a high press they might struggle to get the ball to the front 4. Mascherano was literally the reason Barça got clapped 3-0 against Juve in 2017 since he got overwhelmed by their high press.
Though i didn't read anything on pressing in Bepo's tactics so i don't know what is the stance that his team will take on the issue.

If Bepo's team take a more conventionnal approach of sitting deep, then i see this game going to Physiocrat, since as i said, they would be able to overwhelm them in the midfield and Physio's attacking front 4 is GOAT like, so if they got the ball i don't see them having trouble to put it in the back of the net.

Physio's backliine also seem more solid than Bepo's...

So that's it for now, i still don't know who would take this one, i guess i would need more informations on the tactics of both sides, even if in the current state of things, i could see a slight advantage for Physio.

 

[Physiocrat]

Also to comment on Sjor's left side it does look a bit off even stylistically. I would typically want someone attacking behind Savicevic to allow him to roam. Otherwise that left-side could become a little narrow.

You may have seen these before but the range and style of Mihajlovic's free kicks were insane -


Also Mascherano's passing is being really underrated here. Now it is against Bolton but in a way it is where you would think it would be most exposed against a deep defence. A bit like McFred but he can actually pass forward.


And to finish off a bit of video spam, here is Shevchenko against a defence featuring J Zanetti and Fabio Cannavaro.

 

[Himannv]

Not a fan of Viduka.

Wasn't David Silva better on the left during that peak?

 

[Physiocrat]

Not a fan of Viduka.

Wasn't David Silva better on the left during that peak?

Not for Spain. He played there even as far back as 08 and did so in the Euro 2012 final. I saw the 08 side most recently I remember thinking that Iniesta and Silva were Spain's best players. I reckon he's equally as good then left or right especially with Jorginho on the overlap

 

[antohan]

1. Ohh of course, just wanted to present his defensive side as i know he is more known for his attacking. I mean you have to be a good defender to play in a back three which he often did, no matter the phylosophy.

2. Fits like a glove to a presented peak

If i could do it from memory it would be done in matter of seconds, cant be bothered to watch the same game so soon just to make a point in a draft game, id rather lose.

that's why I said "if you have it so fresh"

Can't be bothered much with that myself. Even all touch compilations often miss the key point of what players do when NOT touching the ball. I remember spending bloody ages trying to show examples of how Julio César Abbadie dealt with Gento and Amancio just by positioning himself correctly and making them run down blind alleys. He needed and deserved it though. Still lost, outrageous game that, some though the other guy had Baresi, others took the correction as Giuseppe Bergomi, when in fact it was Giuseppe Baresi FFS.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

that's why I said "if you have it so fresh"

Can't be bothered much with that myself. Even all touch compilations often miss the key point of what players do when NOT touching the ball. I remember spending bloody ages trying to show examples of how Julio César Abbadie dealt with Gento and Amancio just by positioning himself correctly and making them run down blind alleys. He needed and deserved it though. Still lost, outrageous game that, some though the other guy had Baresi, others took the correction as Giuseppe Bergomi, when in fact it was Giuseppe Baresi FFS.

yeah, i try to involve most "key" moves of the ball but you can only do as much with the view you are given

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Isn't choosing to play in a 4-4-2 kinda risky against a 4-2-3-1 ?

Traditioanlly, yes. But Becks and Savicevic will drift in mostly and help out in the middle, so the midfield won't be so isolated.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not a fan of Viduka.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Props to both of you guys, both teams look amazing. Few thoughts for now :

Isn't choosing to play in a 4-4-2 kinda risky against a 4-2-3-1 ? Physiocrat team could easily outnumber the opposition in the midfield, assuring them control of the game, but on the other hand, the pair Mascherano-Mihajlovic don't seem like the most technically gifted. So if Bepo is playing with a high press they might struggle to get the ball to the front 4. Mascherano was literally the reason Barça got clapped 3-0 against Juve in 2017 since he got overwhelmed by their high press.
Though i didn't read anything on pressing in Bepo's tactics so i don't know what is the stance that his team will take on the issue.

If Bepo's team take a more conventionnal approach of sitting deep, then i see this game going to Physiocrat, since as i said, they would be able to overwhelm them in the midfield and Physio's attacking front 4 is GOAT like, so if they got the ball i don't see them having trouble to put it in the back of the net.

Physio's backliine also seem more solid than Bepo's...

So that's it for now, i still don't know who would take this one, i guess i would need more informations on the tactics of both sides, even if in the current state of things, i could see a slight advantage for Physio.

check few earlier posts where we touched on pretty much that topic

 

[TheReligion]

My initial concern looking at the teams would be @Šjor Bepo left hand side with Ferrer being more attack minded and Savicevic enjoying coming into central areas more and operating as a 10 or AM. I feel this could leave you a little exposed during a quick turnover in possession. I think a more natural LM would be better suited (not sure who you have on the bench) and going with either Cantona/Savicevic in the 10 role. The right hand side is great though and I think Beckham and Petrescu would have been fire together.

With @Physiocrat I not sure about Aimar + Silva as I feel both will want to occupy the same spaces. Silva is predominantly a lefty which would mean he would naturally want to come inside. I feel both are great players but you only really need one. I actually think a diamond would have been an interesting set up as I don't think you need two 6s. This would have let us see Shevchenho and Vieri up top with the creativity of Silva/Aimar as the 10 behind.

Good battle this.

 

[Earvin Johnson]

check few earlier posts where we touched on pretty much that topic

I don't think Aimar will control the game per se, but the 10 will offer more passing options to the DM's than a second striker would which mechanically creates assures him a greater amount of possession, that's how i thought about it.

Traditioanlly, yes. But Becks and Savicevic will drift in mostly and help out in the middle, so the midfield won't be so isolated.

But so will Silva and Rivaldo, so the problematic stays the same.

 

[antohan]

Still struggling with this one. Not particularly enamoured with either side.

Bepo's left flank is underutilised. Savicevic on a good day could make it work, but it seems a complete waste not to have a proper attacking leftback, more so because I don't see Silva being all that in this game.

I buy Viduka, think he is a great fit actually. King Eric, rest of that midfield with late Scholes... I'm not particularly hung up on the whole "midfield being outnumbered" thing, not when I look at Physio's midfield and, frankly, see a broken/disfunctional midfield. It's not coherent, while Bepo's is. If it was about midfield and attack I'd lean to Bepo pulling this off.

But then, I get to the defence and don't like his at all. The greater cohesion expected from his midfield goes out of the window at the back, which just looks like something cobbled together with leftovers. It leaves a lot to the imagination, which invariably leads to imagining peak Rivaldo and Shevchenko giving them a good rodgering, then also thinking Aimar himself won't be too shabby linking up the "cabeças de bagre" in midfield with the ones that can make the most damage. I don't get that feel at the other end, it looks like a contest there, not a one-sided affair.

Leaning towards Physio, by process of elimination more than choice. He does have one thing on his side which is that if ahead he could sit back and pick his rivals off on the break (Sinisa's long range passing is indeed very good and Mascherano's actually wasn't too shabby). With the Fergie team I can't see them switching style much at all, just ploughing on doing very much the same thing and leaving the game wide open, which you really wouldn't want to.

 

[Physiocrat]

With @Physiocrat I not sure about Aimar + Silva as I feel both will want to occupy the same spaces. Silva is predominantly a lefty which would mean he would naturally want to come inside. I feel both are great players but you only really need one. I actually think a diamond would have been an interesting set up as I don't think you need two 6s. This would have let us see Shevchenho and Vieri up top with the creativity of Silva/Aimar as the 10 behind.

Good battle this.

I can see that a bit with Silva and Aimar although their styles a quite different and with Jorginho pushing on it's quite flexible. Note also Silva played on the right with Fabregas in the middle for Spain and that worked fine (totally different system however). The original idea was for Vieri and Shevchenko but with Albertini injured I didn't want Mascherano and Mihajlovic on their own against Keane and Scholes

 

[Šjor Bepo]

My initial concern looking at the teams would be @Šjor Bepo left hand side with Ferrer being more attack minded and Savicevic enjoying coming into central areas more and operating as a 10 or AM. I feel this could leave you a little exposed during a quick turnover in possession. I think a more natural LM would be better suited (not sure who you have on the bench) and going with either Cantona/Savicevic in the 10 role. The right hand side is great though and I think Beckham and Petrescu would have been fire together.

You didnt read the thread? Ferrer is used in a defensive role.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

As someone who watched shitloads of games from Savicevic i have to say im baffled with the criticism here. You dont like Ferrer in a defensive leftback role? Fine, absolutely zero problems with it, id most likely be the same if i didnt see it with my own eyes and as its me failing to showcase you that, its on me.

But...Savicevic and the whole flank debacle is exactly that, a debacle. We have a guy that played his whole career alongside a defensive fullback, first at Zvezda and then with Milan, surprise surprise team wasnt dysfunctional. In fact he thrived because of it as he had the freedom to do his thing, he would help out a bit in the defensive phase but he was never a hard working winger and tbf you never really wanted him to waste his energy on it as he is to valuable on the other side so he would do just enough for him not to be a burden for the team(actually reminds me of Salah that way) - all that was possible only because of a defensive minded fullback behind him that offered protection.

Think in general caf is still way to obsessed with width, okay in same cases is justified but there were plenty of great teams let alone just teams without a player or two hugging the line all the time. Recently been watching early days of Busquets so early Pep Barca had Abidal as leftback who is even more defensive minded then Ferrer here and above him you either have Iniesta, Pedro or Henry. Guess what? All three drift inside constantly.

Also, with Scholes and Beckham in the team idea is to isolate Savicevic 1v1 as much as possible so him staying wide in the buildup is actually a necessity. When that happens, Jorginho is fecked. Even the version that stays back all the time so you can only assume what Dejo would do if Jorginho bombs up, i can imagine it and its not pretty. If he stays same situation happens with Silva(while we at it, its pre peak Silva) drifting inside all the time. For me its not the problem, for majority it seems it....in fact feck majority(as always) but its a problem for his manager so im guessing thats Jorginho bombing up and down?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@harms @Joga Bonito both have watched a fair amount of Savicevic, what are your thought on this?

 

[Joga Bonito]

@harms @Joga Bonito both have watched a fair amount of Savicevic, what are your thought on this?

Don't really have a problem with his position or role here. He's more or less often played with a defensive FB behind him and it never really seemed to bother him. Unsure of how Ferrer would get on here as I'm accustomed to seeing him at RB in an attacking role but no issues with Savicevic in front of a defensive full back. The key thing would be for Savicevic to have the freedom to roam and he has that here, with that workhorse of a midfield supporting him.

 

[Gio]

Love the Viduka pick. A handful for any defence and a nice stylistic remake of the impressive Cantona/Hughes partnership of the early 1990s. As a duo they would enable the 4-4-2 to work as you can go direct to them and they will hold it in and bring others into play. Think the Petrescu/Beckham flank is really strong in this pool, while you'd hope Savicevic gets the freedom to break free from the shackles of a (Capello) 4-4-2. A touch more flank pace would be nice though to stretch the opposition defence back.

For Physio, Silva and Aimar would gel nicely to feed Rivaldo who looks like a potential match-winner in that Scholes/Costacurta/Petrescu area of the park.

 

[antohan]

As someone who watched shitloads of games from Savicevic i have to say im baffled with the criticism here. You dont like Ferrer in a defensive leftback role? Fine, absolutely zero problems with it, id most likely be the same if i didnt see it with my own eyes and as its me failing to showcase you that, its on me.

But...Savicevic and the whole flank debacle is exactly that, a debacle. We have a guy that played his whole career alongside a defensive fullback, first at Zvezda and then with Milan, surprise surprise team wasnt dysfunctional. In fact he thrived because of it as he had the freedom to do his thing, he would help out a bit in the defensive phase but he was never a hard working winger and tbf you never really wanted him to waste his energy on it as he is to valuable on the other side so he would do just enough for him not to be a burden for the team(actually reminds me of Salah that way) - all that was possible only because of a defensive minded fullback behind him that offered protection.

Think in general caf is still way to obsessed with width, okay in same cases is justified but there were plenty of great teams let alone just teams without a player or two hugging the line all the time. Recently been watching early days of Busquets so early Pep Barca had Abidal as leftback who is even more defensive minded then Ferrer here and above him you either have Iniesta, Pedro or Henry. Guess what? All three drift inside constantly.

Also, with Scholes and Beckham in the team idea is to isolate Savicevic 1v1 as much as possible so him staying wide in the buildup is actually a necessity. When that happens, Jorginho is fecked. Even the version that stays back all the time so you can only assume what Dejo would do if Jorginho bombs up, i can imagine it and its not pretty. If he stays same situation happens with Silva(while we at it, its pre peak Silva) drifting inside all the time. For me its not the problem, for majority it seems it....in fact feck majority(as always) but its a problem for his manager so im guessing thats Jorginho bombing up and down?

My issue isn't with Savicevic, nor the logic of playing a more defensive fullback behind him. That absolutely makes sense, else I would be saying you should have started Serginho, which I'm not.

What bugs me is Ferrer winds up being there as a man-marker/occupier of space/maintainer of shape, not really as a fullback. You mention Abidal as a more defensive fullback... well, no, he isn't, he is a great leftback that would do the job required brilliantly. You don't want him flying up and down that flank, but you do want him to make himself available as an option on the flank in attacking phases. Not by the corner flag, more like the halfway line, precisely as he did for Barca.

Ferrer being wrong-footed and unproven on that side doesn't give me anywhere near as much confidence doing that and it's a shame because that flank should NOT particularly bother you and you are not exploiting that. I mean, if you had Gabby Heinze there I would have you bossing that flank but instead I just have white noise.

As I said, assessing both teams from the midfield up I would have you winning, it's the backline that looks all over the place.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

My issue isn't with Savicevic, nor the logic of playing a more defensive fullback behind him. That absolutely makes sense, else I would be saying you should have started Serginho, which I'm not.

What bugs me is Ferrer winds up being there as a man-marker/occupier of space/maintainer of shape, not really as a fullback. You mention Abidal as a more defensive fullback... well, no, he isn't, he is a great leftback that would do the job required brilliantly. You don't want him flying up and down that flank, but you do want him to make himself available as an option on the flank in attacking phases. Not by the corner flag, more like the halfway line, precisely as he did for Barca.

Ferrer being wrong-footed and unproven on that side doesn't give me anywhere near as much confidence doing that and it's a shame because that flank should NOT particularly bother you and you are not exploiting that. I mean, if you had Gabby Heinze there I would have you bossing that flank but instead I just have white noise.

As I said, assessing both teams from the midfield up I would have you winning, it's the backline that looks all over the place.

Well, you say he was a great fullback i would disagree, id say he was a great tactical fit but his individual quality wasnt that great(good not great) and was probably overrated at the time cause of his tough time of the pitch. Ferrer is a more natural fullback of the two, you reckon he isnt capable of offering himself as an option just because he is on the different side? Thats absolutely bonkers IMO

The fact that Gabi Heinze would make a such a difference for you tells me to step back from the debate as id rather have Ferrer with crutches on the wrong side then Gabi Heinze.

So the backline is all over the place because one fullback is playing out of position(your opinion, as someone who watched him in a back 3 on the left side i disagree)? Compare that to that utter mess of a midfield physio has(and the style he wants them to play), then compare who they are playing against and who Ferrer plays against, importance of those two parts on the pitch.....meh, think we said all we had to say on the topic.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

No idea whats the score but if i get through the safest man in the team is Albert Ferrer on the leftback. Diego had Messi and Jonas Guttierez, i will have Scholes and Ferrer!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Went to check on transfermarkt if i could find games of him playing as a left sided centerback in a three and found he actually played as a leftback as well
They only have one game listed but out of 413 games they only have 80 games with marked position so most likely he has more.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/1054754