Official: FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief | UEFA open investigation

Shinjch

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Iceberg is a really good metaphor here. It shows the superficial knowledge of the majority again and again. Absorb every rumor, no matter how stupid, as if it were the holy grail as long as it's anti barca, right?

Clos Gomez ended his career in that season (16/17) and anybody with 3 braincells knew at that time, that a renowned referee retiring would get the Copa final as his last game. That is common in spain and I'd assume in other countries too. Tabloids play you like a fiddle with such articles to generate klicks and traffic.
Why do you think it was that Barcelona made these payments to Negreira?
 

SirReginald

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Iceberg is a really good metaphor here. It shows the superficial knowledge of the majority again and again. Absorb every rumor, no matter how stupid, as if it were the holy grail as long as it's anti barca, right?

Clos Gomez ended his career in that season (16/17) and anybody with 3 braincells knew at that time, that a renowned referee retiring would get the Copa final as his last game. That is common in spain and I'd assume in other countries too. Tabloids play you like a fiddle with such articles to generate klicks and traffic.
Sure you are right and tabloids write shit to get readers but in this case they are the lesser of two evils. Laporta is the real shady cnut and you listening and believing anything he says is a testament to how thick you are.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Clos Gomez ended his career in that season (16/17) and anybody with 3 braincells knew at that time, that a renowned referee retiring would get the Copa final as his last game. That is common in spain and I'd assume in other countries too. Tabloids play you like a fiddle with such articles to generate klicks and traffic.
This is the explanation that an anonymous person in Barcelona gave yesterday to Marca.

However, in 2016 the Copa del Rey final was refereed by Carlos del Cerro Valle. That same season, Carlos Velasco Carballo (another renowned referee) retired; he did not get to referee that final.

Velasco Carballo refereed the 2015 Copa del Rey final. That season, Fernando Teixeira Vitenes, a referee who had as long a career as Clos Gomez (2003 to 2015 vs 2006 to 2017 in first division) retired; he did not get to referee that final, nor the previous year's final.
 

giorno

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Yeah, and would I rule out that some 'firm' fraction of Barca fans could do whatever, definitely not.

But while I don't think high of Laporta, I think its pretty obvious that he isn't a true gangster. Negreira threatened to uncover the biggest scandal ever in football/sports -- and they just ignored him. From what I've learned watching TV, bad things happen to you if you do that to a real gangster... ;)
Honestly, if we're going conspiracy nuts here i think it'd be more likely for it to be the boixos looking for blackmailing material on Laporta
 

giorno

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Clos Gomez had to be Negreira's favourite ref btw. He might as well have just reffed games in a barca shirt it was so bad

There's a few who were very pro madrid too mind
 

romufc

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We all can speculate what the payments were for but we can all assume what it was for. There is no other reason to pay unless you want favourable behaviour.

Unfortunately though, Barca and La Liga know, La Liga is nothing without Barca and Real which means those two clubs can do what they want.

Tebas is not happy with Barca so he keeps saying things like Barca are investigated, Barca can't buy without selling, all words that mean nothing.

Barca know they are bigger than Tebas, so they will get their way.
 

Zlaatan

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To be fair, the anti Vax thing has proven to be real. Government has already paid out of deaths caused by the vaccine. Upto £120,000.
I'm bored so I had a quick look, sorry for derailing the thread. Of the 50mil+ people in the UK who have been vaccinated there have been 1200-1700 claims made in relation to the covid vaccine as of May last year, of which a handful of people have received payment.
If we round that up to 2000 that means >0.00004% are claimed to have died or developed health problems from the vaccine which to no ones surprise proves the anti vax thing to be nothing but incredibly stupid, especially since you would also have to ignore the fact that the vaccine stopped countless people from dying from the actual virus.


Tinfoil hats may look amazing but they're just not worth it.
 

Maagge

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I'm bored so I had a quick look, sorry for derailing the thread. Of the 50mil+ people in the UK who have been vaccinated there have been 1200-1700 claims made in relation to the covid vaccine as of May last year, of which a handful of people have received payment.
If we round that up to 2000 that means >0.00004% are claimed to have died or developed health problems from the vaccine which to no ones surprise proves the anti vax thing to be nothing but incredibly stupid, especially since you would also have to ignore the fact that the vaccine stopped countless people from dying from the actual virus.


Tinfoil hats may look amazing but they're just not worth it.
Not to mention not overwhelming hospitals and being able to open society quicker because of it.
 

caid

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Clos Gomez had to be Negreira's favourite ref btw. He might as well have just reffed games in a barca shirt it was so bad

There's a few who were very pro madrid too mind
To be honest I think Real have been cheating too. You've got plausible deniability though. The big clubs get calls their way explanation looks a lot more tenuous these days.
I felt like we did at times under Ferguson, especially against smaller teams. But that felt more about referees being fecking terrified of the manager we had and i dont think many / any other managers have that same intimidation factor. The big clubs get calls thing has been conspicuously absent for us since he retired. Feels more like a lot of referee's and media have an axe to grind.
I think Real's and Spains media and culture is quite different and i'm not sure you'd even need to bribe people to get favourable calls potentially. Think this episode has muddied the waters for the entire league though.
 

GatoLoco

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Iceberg is a really good metaphor here. It shows the superficial knowledge of the majority again and again. Absorb every rumor, no matter how stupid, as if it were the holy grail as long as it's anti barca, right?

Clos Gomez ended his career in that season (16/17) and anybody with 3 braincells knew at that time, that a renowned referee retiring would get the Copa final as his last game. That is common in spain and I'd assume in other countries too. Tabloids play you like a fiddle with such articles to generate klicks and traffic.
You are right, that was a meaningless piece of news considering how many meaningful ones there are.

Do you want us to discuss whether Negreira had or had not an important role in the Committee as per the information appearing in newspapers in the last 30 years?

Do you want to discuss, perhaps, why some referees insist that Negreira did not have an important role?
 

Oranges038

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Iceberg is a really good metaphor here. It shows the superficial knowledge of the majority again and again. Absorb every rumor, no matter how stupid, as if it were the holy grail as long as it's anti barca, right?

Clos Gomez ended his career in that season (16/17) and anybody with 3 braincells knew at that time, that a renowned referee retiring would get the Copa final as his last game. That is common in spain and I'd assume in other countries too. Tabloids play you like a fiddle with such articles to generate klicks and traffic.
Nah in most countries the best referee for the job would get the gig, they wouldn't have it planned months out and tell a team it was happening just because some lad was retiring.
 

Partridge

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I'm bored so I had a quick look, sorry for derailing the thread. Of the 50mil+ people in the UK who have been vaccinated there have been 1200-1700 claims made in relation to the covid vaccine as of May last year, of which a handful of people have received payment.
If we round that up to 2000 that means >0.00004% are claimed to have died or developed health problems from the vaccine which to no ones surprise proves the anti vax thing to be nothing but incredibly stupid, especially since you would also have to ignore the fact that the vaccine stopped countless people from dying from the actual virus.


Tinfoil hats may look amazing but they're just not worth it.
So the government has paid out. Like I said. Cheers.
 

giorno

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To be honest I think Real have been cheating too. You've got plausible deniability though. The big clubs get calls their way explanation looks a lot more tenuous these days.
I felt like we did at times under Ferguson, especially against smaller teams. But that felt more about referees being fecking terrified of the manager we had and i dont think many / any other managers have that same intimidation factor. The big clubs get calls thing has been conspicuously absent for us since he retired. Feels more like a lot of referee's and media have an axe to grind.
I think Real's and Spains media and culture is quite different and i'm not sure you'd even need to bribe people to get favourable calls potentially. Think this episode has muddied the waters for the entire league though.
The way big clubs get calls their way is not so much the big stuff, it's the general direction, calling/not calling fouls, use of cards, etc. That's how refs would have influenced games in favour of Barcelona, and yes, we do get favourable reffing most of the time too, as do atletico madrid. In the PL i don't know about united, but you only need look at this place whining about Fernandinho/Fabinho to see it as well
 

FreckBarca

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We have truly witnessed some ridiculous refereering over the years.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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It's not out of the question that there is some legitimate exchange of services here, referee reports and whatnot.

But I haven't seen any attempt at even explaining why everything was concealed.

Why does Javier Enriquez (who Bartomeu claims was the person doing the work) have a public CV where he does not list doing this work?

Why did the company Dasnil 95 have a website where they claimed they sold merchandising (keychains, mugs, etc.) for businesses?

Why can nobody from the club say "I signed this service"?

Why did nobody outside the club know of this professional relationship?
 

Messier1994

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To be honest I think Real have been cheating too. You've got plausible deniability though. The big clubs get calls their way explanation looks a lot more tenuous these days.
I felt like we did at times under Ferguson, especially against smaller teams. But that felt more about referees being fecking terrified of the manager we had and i dont think many / any other managers have that same intimidation factor. The big clubs get calls thing has been conspicuously absent for us since he retired. Feels more like a lot of referee's and media have an axe to grind.
I think Real's and Spains media and culture is quite different and i'm not sure you'd even need to bribe people to get favourable calls potentially. Think this episode has muddied the waters for the entire league though.
From afar, it seems like literary every top guy in Spanish football have some dirt on them. Some guy got fired from one federation for embezzling funds, then get a top job at an another federation. Who is in charge for the refs now? Many likes him, sure his uncle — also a hot shot — claims that he organized orgies while having official meetings, but there was supposedly a history between the two so doesn’t have to be true. Okiiii.

How about just putting someone without a criminal record in charge?
 

FreckBarca

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It's not out of the question that there is some legitimate exchange of services here, referee reports and whatnot.

But I haven't seen any attempt at even explaining why everything was concealed.

Why does Javier Enriquez (who Bartomeu claims was the person doing the work) have a public CV where he does not list doing this work?

Why did the company Dasnil 95 have a website where they claimed they sold merchandising (keychains, mugs, etc.) for businesses?

Why can nobody from the club say "I signed this service"?

Why did nobody outside the club know of this professional relationship?
Well, why did almost nobody inside the club know of this professional relationship??

According to El mundo they said that they hid these payments from executives of the club in order to protect them which tells a lot...
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Well, why did almost nobody inside the club know of this professional relationship??
It's an awkward dance.

We are being told this is a totally normal relationship yet Gaspart, Laporta, and Bartomeu have all distanced themselves from Enriquez Negreira as much as possible. The first two claim they only knew him "a little bit", Gaspart said he didn't even know they were paying him. Bartomeu said he's never met him, thought Javier Enriquez wrote all the reports, and was unaware that they were related.
 

Messier1994

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It's not out of the question that there is some legitimate exchange of services here, referee reports and whatnot.

But I haven't seen any attempt at even explaining why everything was concealed.

Why does Javier Enriquez (who Bartomeu claims was the person doing the work) have a public CV where he does not list doing this work?

Why did the company Dasnil 95 have a website where they claimed they sold merchandising (keychains, mugs, etc.) for businesses?

Why can nobody from the club say "I signed this service"?

Why did nobody outside the club know of this professional relationship?
Honestly, it cannot even be debated. I think Barca and Negreira could have been convicted if Barca hired him to clean the toilets on Saturdays for €10/h. By offering that position and accepting it you create positions that are unacceptable. Negreira of course has a very wide duty towards his employer to not in any way, shape or form act so that his impartiality could be doubted, and Barca and Negreira is of course aware of that. They could have given him a cup of coffee and something sweet to chew on, but a bottle of wine would probably have been illegal. It’s at those levels — the criminal — line is drawn.

This is all from an objective side. It takes more to convict persons. For an individual, it’s not enough to prove that a bribe has been paid, you must prove that the person being accused was the one who did it. If a president is accused, he could point at someone else on the board, that person could point at the president. For the club, the blame could be put on individuals acting individually. A prosecutor has a tough job. Would I expect convicting sentences in this case? Definitely, but you can never be certain.

But I have to say that it is very saddening to see how there isn’t a strong enough ‘heart’ of Barca that says ‘what the heck is this’ and starts with kicking out the people in charge. You have to have very odd values if you cannot see how this is extremely far beyond what is acceptable.

And UEFA, FIFA, La Liga, anyone sane, (which also applies for the members of Barca) must realize that the damage of not doing anything is much much worse than whatever negative consequence that comes with doing something.
 

CampNou

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Hello everyone!

I come for a civilized exchange of information, ideas, and facts. That is the main reason I've been reading this forum for a few years. However, this seems like a good moment for signing up... some "tasty" news coming out.

I "joined" the cules in the 90s, when I fell in love with Cruyff's Dream Team. I like the style because usually is fun to watch and having a general gameplay idea seems to be a good approach to guide you in signings, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I mentioned, I liked what happened in the pitch, but I always had the impression (well... more than that), that the presidents and leaders of the clubs were mostly there to have PERSONAL GAINS. I only doubt about Gaspar, mainly because he was a horrible president but he was a hooligan and he truly loved Barca.

About this Negreira affair, there are many things that don't "click me". Obviously I don't support the payments as, in best case scenario, are unethical (as many other "initiatives" the leaders had to get some money for themselves). I get the idea of "you don't need to buy all the referees, they just need to know that they will be punished/promotioned...". However, it that was true, many referees would have been harmed, and I find the chances of nobody coming to talk about it (it was supposed to be known for everyone) very limited. Why? You can say it is to keep the job, but... how many referees who are already retired should know about this? what is stopping them now? Pique might put his hands on fire for Barca, I don't, but I honestly doubt it. I also find a very stupid scheme to buy referees just paying to the company of the vice president of the referees (well, CTA is only a part of all the referees scheme but I'm not going to talk about it).

From my experience, from proved scandals and "weird smell situations", If I had to put money on something (again, I wouldn't). I would bet that Negreira (who has also demonstrated that is a ganster) was just another way to STEAL from the club and to get personal gains. It is the most plausible option because it happened before and it also explains why nobody from the leadership want to talk. To 'save' Barca, they would have to recognize that they were stealing and they are probably trying to find the way to avoid this (that could affect more them from a financial point of view). If this is true, they know that apart from the payments, prosecutors won't find anything else regarding the referees, so just denaying everything should work (Barca brand would be harm but If not proven guilty...).

I see that most of the people here don't even have any doubt, Barca is guilty and bought referees for 20 years in LaLiga, in Champions League (why not?) and I don't know, probably in basketball and handball. I think you should at least be open to other options, who are actually more plausible from my point of view.

We will see what happens, and as I mentioned, I'm open to anything, but that is my personal bet.
 
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CampNou

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This is hilarious
It is hilarious... indeed.

The referee was very bad, but he was far from being the reason of Barca's win.
That was a 6-0 match (that is probably why you don't see the score in the video).

- The Pique's "penalty" looks more like pectoral in better quality videos. Angle doesn't help. There is a repetition from behind but it is also not ideal. It seems like pectoral or pectoral deflection + arm later on.
- There is an offside goal (Iniestas pass to Suarez). Probably around 1 meter, so it was a clear offside. Very bad decision. That was the 2-0. Important goal, but not the opening goal.
- The penalty from the handball is blatant. Period. You can see it in a proper match recap. You won't find many handballs as clear as that (3-0).
- The 1st pen to Neymar I think it is clear too when you see it from different angles. The defender does not try to play the ball or protect it, he just pushes Neymar to the ground because Neymar was getting to the ball sooner than him. (4-0)
- The 2nd pen to Neymar is a joke. Nothing else to say (5-0 in the 86th minute).

So yeah, very bad referee. Very very bad. One offside goal (2-0) and a non existent penalty (5-0). Very far from being determinant but those were clear mistakes. No need to deny it. Aside from that, Barca dominated completely the match and had 5 times the chances Sporting had. +20 shots to 5.

I would post the videos but I can't. Anyway they are easy to find in LaLiga channel.
Barcelona 6-0 Sporting. Season 2015-2016. They even have a video for Piques "pen" from different angles and even slow motion. Title is "Polémica: Doble ocasión del Sporting que saca Piqué bajopalos, reclaman mano" in case you are interested.
 

bringbackbebe

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Hello everyone!

I come for a civilized exchange of information, ideas, and facts. That is the main reason I've been reading this forum for a few years. However, this seems like a good moment for signing up... some "tasty" news coming out.

I "joined" the cules in the 90s, when I fell in love with Cruyff's Dream Team. I like the style because usually is fun to watch and having a general gameplay idea seems to be a good approach to guide you in signings, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I mentioned, I liked what happened in the pitch, but I always had the impression (well... more than that), that the presidents and leaders of the clubs were mostly there to have PERSONAL GAINS. I only doubt about Gaspar, mainly because he was a horrible president but he was a hooligan and he truly loved Barca.

About this Negreira affair, there are many things that don't "click me". Obviously I don't support the payments as, in best case scenario, are unethical (as many other "initiatives" the leaders had to get some money for themselves). I get the idea of "you don't need to buy all the referees, they just need to know that they will be punished/promotioned...". However, it that was true, many referees would have been harmed, and I find the chances of nobody coming to talk about it (it was supposed to be known for everyone) very limited. Why? You can say it is to keep the job, but... how many referees who are already retired should know about this? what is stopping them now? Pique might put his hands on fire for Barca, I don't, but I honestly doubt it. I also find a very stupid scheme to buy referees just paying to the company of the vice president of the referees (well, CTA is only a part of all the referees scheme but I'm not going to talk about it).

From my experience, from proved scandals and "weird smell situations", If I had to put money on something (again, I wouldn't). I would bet that Negreira (who has also demonstrated that is a ganster) was just another way to STEAL from the club and to get personal gains. It is the most plausible option because it happened before and it also explains why nobody from the leadership want to talk. To 'save' Barca, they would have to recognize that they were stealing and they are probably trying to find the way to avoid this (that could affect more them from a financial point of view). If this is true, they know that apart from the payments, prosecutors won't find anything else regarding the referees, so just denaying everything should work (Barca brand would be harm but If not proven guilty...).

I see that most of the people here don't even have any doubt, Barca is guilty and bought referees for 20 years in LaLiga, in Champions League (why not?) and I don't know, probably in basketball and handball. I think you should at least be open to other options, who are actually more plausible from my point of view.

We will see what happens, and as I mentioned, I'm open to anything, but that is my personal bet.
The issue is transparency. Had Barca been upfront about the payments, no suspicion would have risen. If Barca were subject to ransom, they should have brought it to the fore & public support would have been with Barca & not with the referee. I personally don't think Barca purchased decisions, but I do think they've violated a basic conduct that binds sports clubs or any company for that matter.

It's like a priest diverting large sums of Church money silently to a whorehouse only to later justify he's doing that to "educate" the workers there. You could argue that's the case, but meh.
 

Tarrou

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Hello everyone!

I come for a civilized exchange of information, ideas, and facts. That is the main reason I've been reading this forum for a few years. However, this seems like a good moment for signing up... some "tasty" news coming out.

I "joined" the cules in the 90s, when I fell in love with Cruyff's Dream Team. I like the style because usually is fun to watch and having a general gameplay idea seems to be a good approach to guide you in signings, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I mentioned, I liked what happened in the pitch, but I always had the impression (well... more than that), that the presidents and leaders of the clubs were mostly there to have PERSONAL GAINS. I only doubt about Gaspar, mainly because he was a horrible president but he was a hooligan and he truly loved Barca.

About this Negreira affair, there are many things that don't "click me". Obviously I don't support the payments as, in best case scenario, are unethical (as many other "initiatives" the leaders had to get some money for themselves). I get the idea of "you don't need to buy all the referees, they just need to know that they will be punished/promotioned...". However, it that was true, many referees would have been harmed, and I find the chances of nobody coming to talk about it (it was supposed to be known for everyone) very limited. Why? You can say it is to keep the job, but... how many referees who are already retired should know about this? what is stopping them now? Pique might put his hands on fire for Barca, I don't, but I honestly doubt it. I also find a very stupid scheme to buy referees just paying to the company of the vice president of the referees (well, CTA is only a part of all the referees scheme but I'm not going to talk about it).

From my experience, from proved scandals and "weird smell situations", If I had to put money on something (again, I wouldn't). I would bet that Negreira (who has also demonstrated that is a ganster) was just another way to STEAL from the club and to get personal gains. It is the most plausible option because it happened before and it also explains why nobody from the leadership want to talk. To 'save' Barca, they would have to recognize that they were stealing and they are probably trying to find the way to avoid this (that could affect more them from a financial point of view). If this is true, they know that apart from the payments, prosecutors won't find anything else regarding the referees, so just denaying everything should work (Barca brand would be harm but If not proven guilty...).

I see that most of the people here don't even have any doubt, Barca is guilty and bought referees for 20 years in LaLiga, in Champions League (why not?) and I don't know, probably in basketball and handball. I think you should at least be open to other options, who are actually more plausible from my point of view.

We will see what happens, and as I mentioned, I'm open to anything, but that is my personal bet.
can you explain your theory in more detail?

I don't understand what you mean. Why and how would they use a ref to steal from the club?
 

Adisa

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can you explain your theory in more detail?

I don't understand what you mean. Why and how would they use a ref to steal from the club?
Happens all the time in public office.
politician or civil servant awards and over inflated contract to a contractor. Contractor funnels some of that money back to the politician.
Don’t think that’s what happened here though but it’s possible.
 

Tarrou

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Happens all the time in public office.
politician or civil servant awards and over inflated contract to a contractor. Contractor funnels some of that money back to the politician.
Don’t think that’s what happened here though but it’s possible.
Yeah I get that concept. I'm just questioning why on earth you would choose to do this with a referee who can influence the games? There are surely countless other ways to siphon money out of the club that don't risk you ruining your entire legacy.

just use an ex ref for has no influence for example, there is zero downside to doing that compared to what they did.. if you're just looking to steal money
 

Lemoor

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do you know how they define the variables?

what is a favourable red card and what is a negative red card? and who decides that?
I assume that favorable is the one your opponent gets and negative is the one you get.
 

Tarrou

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I assume that favorable is the one your opponent gets and negative is the one you get.
Yeah. But how is that measured?

A graph like that is meaningless without knowing how they accumulated the data
 

Maagge

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Yeah. But how is that measured?

A graph like that is meaningless without knowing how they accumulated the data
If your opponent gets a red card it goes one up, if you get a red card it goes one down.
 

Tarrou

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If your opponent gets a red card it goes one up, if you get a red card it goes one down.
Ah okay. I misread the entire thing then. I thought it meant favourable as in an incorrect decision in their favour.

If it's just a ledger of red cards, it looks quite bad. But then again, you would expect Barca to receive less red cards if they are doing more attacking and retaining more possession right? I would imagine say, Bayern or Real would have similar stats..

edit: Madrid is on there, so I guess not!
 
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Iker Quesadillas

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The "stealing money" theory is backed by some evidence (Contreras' involvement and the cut he took of the money). I think it's somewhat likely.

The main thing it doesn't explain is: why did the scheme stop at the same time as Negreira lost his position at the CTA.
 

RG77

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The "stealing money" theory is backed by some evidence (Contreras' involvement and the cut he took of the money). I think it's somewhat likely.

The main thing it doesn't explain is: why did the scheme stop at the same time as Negreira lost his position at the CTA.
The whole defense so far from Barca fans is just throwing shit at a wall and see what sticks. And somehow each of these theories end with Barca being the actual victim. Somewhat expected of course, but these people turning themselves into a pretzel trying to explain why. Just stick to the original script: deny and ask for ironclad proof.
 

Pexbo

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Differential of Red Cards La Liga 2004-2019

Just watch this.

The statistical chances of this happening *AND* the payments being a coincidence... not sure my Math and Engineering degrees is enough :confused:
The most telling thing is Real Madrid trending at the bottom. One argument in Barcelona’s favour, could’ve been the best clubs are bound to encourage rough tactics against them. Conversely an argument against Barcelona is that if you’re paying the referees, it doesn’t make sense just to have decisions for yourself, you want decisions against your title rivals too.
 

Lemoor

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The most telling thing is Real Madrid trending at the bottom. One argument in Barcelona’s favour, could’ve been the best clubs are bound to encourage rough tactics against them. Conversely an argument against Barcelona is that if you’re paying the referees, it doesn’t make sense just to have decisions for yourself, you want decisions against your title rivals too.
Here's the link to the article that the data is from. It's slightly more readable there. It's just 8 clubs and the entire negative difference for Real comes from a period between 2004-2008, after that they are even (despite having Ramos farming red cards for fun). For Barcelona the insane positive difference only starts around 2008.
 

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