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Oranges038

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I'm not saying people would scoff (yes, I'm sticking with that word dammit) because it's wrong, they'd scoff because it's lame. People make fun of the UK's national obsession with WW2 as is, so for the manager to use that as motivation before as pointless a game as you could imagine would rightly be mocked as David Brent style management. This is no different, it's a cringey approach to take for such an utterly low stakes but still professional game.

I mean they'd be perfectly within their rights to play their players the Any Given Sunday "inches" speech too but that would still be a laughably clichéd Junior B football style approach to getting your players psyched for a game.
Yeah, the Twitter morons would be out in force no doubt about it.

I'm not saying people would scoff (yes, I'm sticking with that word dammit) because it's wrong, they'd scoff because it's lame. People make fun of the UK's national obsession with WW2 as is, so for the manager to use that as motivation before as pointless a game as you could imagine would rightly be mocked as David Brent style management. This is no different, it's a cringey approach to take for such an utterly low stakes but still professional game.

I mean they'd be perfectly within their rights to play their players the Any Given Sunday "inches" speech too but that would still be a laughably clichéd Junior B football style approach to getting your players psyched for a game.
Yeah the twitter morons would be having a field day alright they seem to love this kind of thing, I'm not on it but I see the occasional threads and I am glad I'm not. The man would be sacked over the twitter response more than whether or not it would be right or wrong, it's the outcry of idiots on twitter with nothing better to do and crap newspapers that will be listened to. This stuff should never be leaked out of the dressing room and staff definitely shouldn't be running to a rag of a paper about it. That is childish school yard behavior. If he felt so strongly against it, he should have stated his position tendered his resignation and left quietly, this just smacks of someone trying to get one over on the manager for whatever reason.

I was in a dressing room where that inches speech was played before a game, it wasn't great or particularly well received but nobody moaned about it being the reason why we lost the game. I also played for a GAA team where one lad would say the same thing every game just before we left the dressing room, "Let's go out and bate these *team name* c**ts". He was dead serious, loved the parish pride aspect of it, now can you imagine if James McClean or one of them said that before this game, would the same lad have piped up and said, no no James, you can't say that?



"Love of a country is a hard thing to measure but if you see a player on the TV who played for Ireland, singing 'God Save the Queen' in a play-off final, you might just say, 'Oh, right. Maybe he's not really all that Irish'. Matty Holland would be an example. For me, Matty is as English as David Beckham. He played for Ireland and he obviously has the roots.

"But he played for Ipswich in a play-off final, in 2000, and he was singing 'God Save the Queen' at the top of his voice. I don't think he could have sung it any louder. Some of the other Irish lads saw him, too, so at the next couple of international matches we were going, 'Turn that rebel music up a bit'."

If they want to come on board and they qualify, then great, as long as they've a feel for it. I think, in the past, there were one or two players who probably declared for Ireland as a career move - and I can understand that, too.

"They did well for the country, but I look at some of them now and I wonder if they've been back to Ireland since. So I think the attitude should be, 'Listen, if you're going to come on board, get a feel for it - have a warmth for the country but don't just do it as a pure career move'."


Roy Keane sums it up quite nicely above, for me.
The problem we have is that GAA and Rugby (becoming more and more popular since the early 00's) are hurdles standing in the way of the national team. Having Leinster in Ireland, the equivalent of having a Barcelona or Real Madrid, is unfortunately lost on me. I hate the sport. Despise it even. Lots of potentially good Irish football players are lost to both these sports. Particularly Gaelic football, as the skillset transfers quite well between the sports. Not so much Rugby in terms of skillset, but young kids picking up Rugby at a young age instead of falling in love with Football. Which they're entitled to do. But as an avid Football fan, I would sacrifice success in both those sports for the benefit of Football. There is only one "Beautiful Game", for me.

The real difference here is that these lads had thicker skin and could see the funny side of things like this and it helped them build a bond and a bit of comradery in the team and squad. They joke about things like this and not go moaning to the newspapers or jumping onto twitter or unfollowing someone on Instagram over it. I'm not against anyone coming to play for Ireland if they are committed, but I think the Grealish and Rice debacles have become a sort of joke about this approach now and other players are reluctant to do similar and head down the same path for fear of getting the same treatment.

Agree with the bolded part and was just about to post this.

As for the lack of players, the real problem with soccer in this country is that while there are many great clubs around the country in most areas, a lot of people love it and watch it and play it, but it's always going to be a second or third choice for the majority. So when it comes down to playing sports the most talented players choose to stick with either Hurling or Gaelic football, you even have rugby been thrown into the mix in the last few years. I know of several who had chances to go to England but were encouraged to stay for the chance of playing minor county football.

For these sports the scholarship opportunities through colleges are and universities are different, the payers know they can make a name for themselves at home, and it encourages the players to stay and get a good education while playing a sport they love. With soccer the best don't stay long enough to make it this way, as the view is that you have to move to England at 15/16 to get in with some youth team. Plenty of players over the years have shown that this is not always the best way, look at Roy Keane, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long and Seamus Coleman, they are just a few. The FAI and LOI should actually put more focus on developing players at home and improving the structures within the country for discovering and nurturing talent.






.
 

Champagne Football

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I don't see an issue with that. He didn't say he was against English players playing for us. He said that their attitude and feel for it are important, which they are.

I think small nations can achieve great things if the resources and infrastructure are in place. For a long time, John Delaney ensured that wasn't ever going to happen. Croatia and Uruguay have shown what nations with small populations can achieve at international level. Ireland can produce high level players. We have in the past. The island as a whole used to churn them out quite regularly in the 20th century; Liam Whelan, Johnny Giles, Tony Dunne, Pat Jennings, George Best, Martin O'Neill, Paul McGrath, Norman Whiteside, Denis Irwin, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane.

The problem we have is that GAA and Rugby (becoming more and more popular since the early 00's) are hurdles standing in the way of the national team. Having Leinster in Ireland, the equivalent of having a Barcelona or Real Madrid, is unfortunately lost on me. I hate the sport. Despise it even. Lots of potentially good Irish football players are lost to both these sports. Particularly Gaelic football, as the skillset transfers quite well between the sports. Not so much Rugby in terms of skillset, but young kids picking up Rugby at a young age instead of falling in love with Football. Which they're entitled to do. But as an avid Football fan, I would sacrifice success in both those sports for the benefit of Football. There is only one "Beautiful Game", for me.

Croatia and Uruguay have shown what can be achieved.
Matt Holland was a truly unbelievable player for Ireland. What a great servant who never gave less than 100%. To question his commitment is Keane simply finding a childish way to attack players he didn't get along with in his playing days.

We can never ever compare ourselves to Croatia or Uruguay where football is religion to the whole nation. In Ireland Hurling is religion in Killkenny and Tipperary, in Kerry and Mayo the GAA football is religion, in other chunks of the country, rugby is religion. But yes the many millions Delaney swindled and pissed away on the champagne lifestyle could have gone a long way to producing more top quality players.

We've had to press the reset button now to pick up the pieces from years of greed under Delaney, it will be a long and painful ride, but the new CEO of the calibre required, and the new manager with the right vision are steps in the right direction. More foreign investment in clubs as what is happening at Dundalk is welcome too.
 

dbs235

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Was it just a member of the backroom staff who complained? I thought I saw in one of the articles that a player did too.

Anyway, leaving aside any political correctness issues or problems with the staff it's still very cringe.

As a few people on twitter have pointed out, if we read that Gareth Southgate had shown the England team three minute video about WW2 before playing Germany we'd rightly scoff. Especially if he did it before an absolutely pointless friendly game in an empty stadium and they then went on to lose 3-0.
As an Englishman, it doesn't offend me at all that Kenny tried to motivate his players with the video. But this bit is very true. Southgate would have been absolutely slaughtered on here, on Twitter and in the media.
 

Champagne Football

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As an Englishman, it doesn't offend me at all that Kenny tried to motivate his players with the video. But this bit is very true. Southgate would have been absolutely slaughtered on here, on Twitter and in the media.
Kenny definitely strikes me as a man of integrity who would not have an anti-British bone in his body. Just recently he called up the Northern Ireland manager out of the blue to wish him good luck against Slovakia and to offer any advice if needed. This sort of thing has never been done before between managers of both places with a bit of a history.

I'm truly gobsmacked at the lack of awareness that led to a video being played that led to one or two in the camp taking offense to it. I can only put it down to a lack of experience at the top. I think Kenny will learn from the mistake.
 

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Kenny definitely strikes me as a man of integrity who would not have an anti-British bone in his body. Just recently he called up the Northern Ireland manager out of the blue to wish him good luck against Slovakia and to offer any advice if needed. This sort of thing has never been done before between managers of both places with a bit of a history.

I'm truly gobsmacked at the lack of awareness that led to a video being played that led to one or two in the camp taking offense to it. I can only put it down to a lack of experience at the top. I think Kenny will learn from the mistake.
Regardless of what you think about his methods or whether it struck the right tone, and none of us were there and will probably never know the full detail or see the vid, running to the Daily Mail of all places is unforgivable.

Any disagreement or issue should be dealt with in-house. Whoever that was should be out.
 

Champagne Football

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Regardless of what you think about his methods or whether it struck the right tone, and none of us were there and will probably never know the full detail or see the vid, running to the Daily Mail of all places is unforgivable.

Any disagreement or issue should be dealt with in-house. Whoever that was should be out.
Exactly. As long as there's no double-standards then it's all good. Everytime McClean doesn't wear a poppy, we can't one hand go 'Oh isn't it terrible the vitriol poor James has to face when he's just trying to earn an honest living', while on the other hand saying 'If English born players don't like the us against our neighbouring enemies vibe of the national team, then they can get stuffed'.

The only reason we've been able to compete in international football is by creating an environment where English born players, who feel both Irish and English, feel welcome to join the set up. Sabotaging that foundation would be a step in the wrong direction.
 

KiD MoYeS

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What a nothing story. If you're offended by the history of Ireland in relation to England, a country that attempted genocide on the Irish people, then representing Ireland is not for you.
 

Champagne Football

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What a nothing story. If you're offended by the history of Ireland in relation to England, a country that attempted genocide on the Irish people, then representing Ireland is not for you.
Alan Kelly was clearly not offended by hearing about the plight of the Irish throughout history. What he probably would have been offended by was what he percieved to be an anti-english vibe to the video, in a squad that has had phenomenal service from players who consider themselves both English and Irish over the years.

It was a huge cock-up by Kenny no matter what way you try to spin it to suit your own argument.
 

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This whole thing stinks. Strikes me as typical FAI shenanigans. Someone is being stirring up trouble for the own benefit, same old shambles at the FAI.
 

McGrathsipan

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This whole thing stinks. Strikes me as typical FAI shenanigans. Someone is being stirring up trouble for the own benefit, same old shambles at the FAI.

That's what I thought.
If they sack him over this it would be no surprise
 

Footy van de Geek

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Matt Holland was a truly unbelievable player for Ireland. What a great servant who never gave less than 100%. To question his commitment is Keane simply finding a childish way to attack players he didn't get along with in his playing days.

We can never ever compare ourselves to Croatia or Uruguay where football is religion to the whole nation. In Ireland Hurling is religion in Killkenny and Tipperary, in Kerry and Mayo the GAA football is religion, in other chunks of the country, rugby is religion. But yes the many millions Delaney swindled and pissed away on the champagne lifestyle could have gone a long way to producing more top quality players.

We've had to press the reset button now to pick up the pieces from years of greed under Delaney, it will be a long and painful ride, but the new CEO of the calibre required, and the new manager with the right vision are steps in the right direction. More foreign investment in clubs as what is happening at Dundalk is welcome too.
I was referring to Hogan. As in nothing wrong with Keane approaching him.

He said himself he has no problem with English players playing for us if it's for the right reasons and there is a genuine connection. He used Matt Holland as an example. I too would be wondering about some of the English lads if I shared a dressing room with them. I wouldn't take it as an out and out attack on Holland who was a good asset during qualification for The 2002 World Cup. A poor man's Lampard. More of a Danny Murphy. Keane would know how important he was during that campaign. Of course he's not going to like people who sided with McCarthy over him.

Exactly. As long as there's no double-standards then it's all good. Everytime McClean doesn't wear a poppy, we can't one hand go 'Oh isn't it terrible the vitriol poor James has to face when he's just trying to earn an honest living', while on the other hand saying 'If English born players don't like the us against our neighbouring enemies vibe of the national team, then they can get stuffed'.

The only reason we've been able to compete in international football is by creating an environment where English born players, who feel both Irish and English, feel welcome to join the set up. Sabotaging that foundation would be a step in the wrong direction.


I would personally rather be average with an all Irish squad than successful with a squad of misfits.

I don't have the same affection towards the Jack Charlton era that the majority of Irish fans over the age of 35 do. I think he wasted our golden generation. Football was different back then tbf; less emphasis on style. Very results driven. But we had players capable of playing a better brand of football while maintaining the spirit that they showed. We were tough and in your face. But it didn't always have to be like that. The squad was full of players from the biggest clubs in England. Stacked even. So I'm disappointed with the overall outcome of that era. Not as successful to me. At one point in time, there was very little difference between our best XI and England's. You obviously had no problem with the amount of English players playing for us. I would prefer to do it with a fully Irish squad. Or as close to it as possible.

Wales have copied our approach in recent years. It's becoming more common. Get the best possible XI. The national pride element isn't as clear.
 

sullydnl

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It's difficult to judge this story without actually seeing the video. As described it could easily range from the inoffensive to the clearly inappropriate. The fact that only one person complained would suggest the former but then the person who allegedly did complain has ties to Irish football going back at least one generation, so it would be odd if he took offense over nothing.

It's also a tricky area for the FAI to involve themselves in. As was pointed out on the Second Captains podcast, the FAI themselves made a big show of commemorating the 1916 rising back in 2016. Hardly then makes sense to be overly harsh with Kenny if he referred to similar (depending on how he referred to it of course).

What I would say is that if anyone reacts badly to a motivational video like that then it has hardly served its purpose and it's a pretty naff thing to do before an empty-stadium dead-rubber fixture anyway. With Kenny under a certain amount of pressure due to poor results, this hasn't helped.

It might also give him and any future managers pause before referring to anglo-Irish relations to a group of people who live in England, have family in England and (in some cases) potentially think of themselves as partly English. It might not be quite the motivator they think it is.
 

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I was referring to Hogan. As in nothing wrong with Keane approaching him.

He said himself he has no problem with English players playing for us if it's for the right reasons and there is a genuine connection. He used Matt Holland as an example. I too would be wondering about some of the English lads if I shared a dressing room with them. I wouldn't take it as an out and out attack on Holland who was a good asset during qualification for The 2002 World Cup. A poor man's Lampard. More of a Danny Murphy. Keane would know how important he was during that campaign. Of course he's not going to like people who sided with McCarthy over him.



I would personally rather be average with an all Irish squad than successful with a squad of misfits.

I don't have the same affection towards the Jack Charlton era that the majority of Irish fans over the age of 35 do. I think he wasted our golden generation. Football was different back then tbf; less emphasis on style. Very results driven. But we had players capable of playing a better brand of football while maintaining the spirit that they showed. We were tough and in your face. But it didn't always have to be like that. The squad was full of players from the biggest clubs in England. Stacked even. So I'm disappointed with the overall outcome of that era. Not as successful to me. At one point in time, there was very little difference between our best XI and England's. You obviously had no problem with the amount of English players playing for us. I would prefer to do it with a fully Irish squad. Or as close to it as possible.

Wales have copied our approach in recent years. It's becoming more common. Get the best possible XI. The national pride element isn't as clear.
Wales approach has been nothing like ours. They've had a policy of bringing super talented kids into the fold even if they haven't played for the first team at their clubs yet. They've focused on trying to win while playing an attractive passing style as opposed to win at all costs and play ugly.

'Misfits' is a borderline racist terms for players that other nations would have felt very lucky to have had - Aldridge, Houghton, Mark Lawrenson, Townshend, Gary Breen etc. Damien Duff and Robbie Keane emerging, was a result of the wild hysteria the hugely successful Charlton years brought, where every kid on the street wanted to be Aldridge or Kevin Sheedy.

You say you'd prefer if the national team was strictly only Irish born players and LOI players, yet I'd bet at the same time you don't spend a penny going to LOI games every weekend, and instead prefer to give your money to Sky to watch Man Utd every weekend, simply because it's far more entertaining to watch a team that excites with a squad full of superstars.

We all would love if LOI became a professional league to rival others in Europe, but reality and fantasy are different things.
 

Footy van de Geek

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Wales approach has been nothing like ours. They've had a policy of bringing super talented kids into the fold even if they haven't played for the first team at their clubs yet. They've focused on trying to win while playing an attractive passing style as opposed to win at all costs and play ugly.

'Misfits' is a borderline racist terms for players that other nations would have felt very lucky to have had - Aldridge, Houghton, Mark Lawrenson, Townshend, Gary Breen etc. Damien Duff and Robbie Keane emerging, was a result of the wild hysteria the hugely successful Charlton years brought, where every kid on the street wanted to be Aldridge or Kevin Sheedy.

You say you'd prefer if the national team was strictly only Irish born players and LOI players, yet I'd bet at the same time you don't spend a penny going to LOI games every weekend, and instead prefer to give your money to Sky to watch Man Utd every weekend, simply because it's far more entertaining to watch a team that excites with a squad full of superstars.
A lot of assumptions and accusations in your post. Someone is a bit touchy.

Wales have started to give caps to lots of English born players over the past few years. Just like Ireland have down the years. Some of their best players in recent years have been players like Williams, Robson-Kanu, Ampadu, James, etc. Traditionally, Wales were always very Welsh in international football. That has changed now. They are assembling the best possible team. National identity has gone out the window somewhat.

Firstly, that's not racist at all. Watch your words. Maybe the word you're looking for is xenophobic. I have an English grandparent, so I myself am a misfit of sorts. But like Michael Keane, I have no association or interaction with my English relations. I don't identify as English in any way. At the end of the day, the records will show that zero finals were reached with that group of players. Players playing for the best clubs in England. Title winners. FA Cup winners. We didn't even qualify for Euro 92, which would have been our best chance to do a Denmark 1992 or Greece 2004. Guess what, people can have different opinions to yours.

We can produce a squad of PL and Championship players who are fully Irish. They don't have to be LOI. I was a season ticket holder at a Leinster based club for several years and spent the majority of my childhood attending their games both home and away. This team were not very successful. But you are right about one thing; fans around the world should be supporting their local teams instead of just the best teams. I was brought up a United fan, I didn't choose it. I question why I support an English team more and more as the years go by. The Irish connection is obvious between United and Ireland. You could put out a title winning side made up of United players who have come from The Emerald Isle. United certainly haven't been successful or entertaining over the past few years. A lot more bad than good. Yet here I am still following them.
 

Oranges038

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I was referring to Hogan. As in nothing wrong with Keane approaching him.

He said himself he has no problem with English players playing for us if it's for the right reasons and there is a genuine connection. He used Matt Holland as an example. I too would be wondering about some of the English lads if I shared a dressing room with them. I wouldn't take it as an out and out attack on Holland who was a good asset during qualification for The 2002 World Cup. A poor man's Lampard. More of a Danny Murphy. Keane would know how important he was during that campaign. Of course he's not going to like people who sided with McCarthy over him.



I would personally rather be average with an all Irish squad than successful with a squad of misfits.

I don't have the same affection towards the Jack Charlton era that the majority of Irish fans over the age of 35 do. I think he wasted our golden generation. Football was different back then tbf; less emphasis on style. Very results driven. But we had players capable of playing a better brand of football while maintaining the spirit that they showed. We were tough and in your face. But it didn't always have to be like that. The squad was full of players from the biggest clubs in England. Stacked even. So I'm disappointed with the overall outcome of that era. Not as successful to me. At one point in time, there was very little difference between our best XI and England's. You obviously had no problem with the amount of English players playing for us. I would prefer to do it with a fully Irish squad. Or as close to it as possible.

Wales have copied our approach in recent years. It's becoming more common. Get the best possible XI. The national pride element isn't as clear.

Jack Charlton undeniably did a good job, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But Ireland had some top class players at that time and really should have done better and could with a better manager. The FAI selection committee was a farce in terms of the voting, 19 people with votes to decide the manager. The final round was between Jack and Bob Paisley who had received 9 votes to Jack's 3 in the previous votes when the other candidates were excluded but Jack got the other guys voters and one person changed, that jumped ship on the vote could have taken Irish football in a different direction altogether.


Wales have been taking promising youth players and capping them even before they've played first team football and brining them into a side with a plan and playing ethos that has been held up over the last 10 or so years. If an Ireland manager did that there would be outrage as to why these lads are being called up ahead of others.


You say you'd prefer if the national team was strictly only Irish born players and LOI players, yet I'd bet at the same time you don't spend a penny going to LOI games every weekend, and instead prefer to give your money to Sky to watch Man Utd every weekend, simply because it's far more entertaining to watch a team that excites with a squad full of superstars.
I see this thrown out a lot, but not everyone is near a LOI team to make this possible, there are about 13 towns/cities outside of Dublin with LOI clubs. Plenty of people are actively involved in the sport at a local level, so they are still doing their bit for the sport, they aren't getting paid and in some cases put their own money in. I played for and coached and did my bit for my local club for years, I'm not from a town where there is a LOI team I don't attend games but I'll watch it when it's on TV. I know people from Drogheda who won't pay to watch Drogheda because the stadium is in an awful condition, but these same people will go to England to games and will go to Ireland games, if had a club like that in my town I would go. I am not sure where the connection to the English clubs comes from it goes back a long way, but I have no problem with someone making 1 or 2 trips to England to watch a game rather than spending every weekend travelling 3 hrs to Longford or 4/5 hours to Cork to watch another team they aren't from the town of either, no difference between a Kerry man going to watch Cork City than going to watch Liverpool or Utd, they have the same amount of affiliation for the town and club.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Alan Kelly was clearly not offended by hearing about the plight of the Irish throughout history. What he probably would have been offended by was what he percieved to be an anti-english vibe to the video, in a squad that has had phenomenal service from players who consider themselves both English and Irish over the years.

It was a huge cock-up by Kenny no matter what way you try to spin it to suit your own argument.
You obviously saw the video, did you?

How much anti-English sentiment can be expressed in a three minute video containing footage of Ireland goals and the 1916 rising? Someone has stitched up Kenny no matter what way you try to spin it to suit your own argument.
 
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KiD MoYeS

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Alan Kelly should be very careful of the Pandora’s box he has pried open and attention that will accompany him because of this...
If it was him that went behind Kenny's back and reported to the higher ups I fail to see how the two can continue to work together. As someone said in this thread get Shay Given in to replace Alan Kelly and move on.
 

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If it was him that went behind Kenny's back and reported to the higher ups I fail to see how the two can continue to work together. As someone said in this thread get Shay Given in to replace Alan Kelly and move on.
Aye, and a man with some skeletons of his own, along with most of his teammates from that era, would be well advised to keep his head below the parapet...
 

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If it was him that went behind Kenny's back and reported to the higher ups I fail to see how the two can continue to work together. As someone said in this thread get Shay Given in to replace Alan Kelly and move on.
Yeah if it was him that went to the papers, he must know he's basically walking away from the international setup.
 

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Who ever leaked the story to the Mail should never be involved in the Irish camp ever again. As for those of you annoyed by him showing the video give your head a wobble. He's not done anything wrong at all.
 

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Without seeing the video, you can't really have a proper opinion on the incident, but outside of showing scenes of the IRA hurting innocent English, I can't see why anyone would care. If there were English people on the team uncomfortable with facing the history of their country's relationship with Ireland, they shouldn't be playing for us. Comparing it to Southgate showing videos of ze germans is a bit wide of the mark, not a whole lot in common there with the Irish/English situation.
 

sullydnl

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Without seeing the video, you can't really have a proper opinion on the incident, but outside of showing scenes of the IRA hurting innocent English, I can't see why anyone would care. If there were English people on the team uncomfortable with facing the history of their country's relationship with Ireland, they shouldn't be playing for us. Comparing it to Southgate showing videos of ze germans is a bit wide of the mark, not a whole lot in common there with the Irish/English situation.
I think there's enough in common relative to the point that the comparison is making.

If this had happened to Southgate he would rightly have been mocked. Partly because it would be a naff thing for a manager to do before a pointless empty-stadium friendly, partly because it would play into a perceived national obsession with a shared history that isn't particularly reciprocated by their opponents and partly because it would be quite funny for them to then be promptly beaten 3-0.

I think pretty much all that applies in Kenny's case too. The nature of the Irish/English shared history doesn't particularly matter as it's the silliness of using that history as a route one football motivator in this context that's relevant. It both cases it's just a cringey thing to do.
 

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Most people in Ireland are fully behind Stephen Kenny because they know he's a top bloke who would never purposely go out of his way to cause offence. Maybe himself and Alan Kelly haven't seen eye to eye since the start and he thought showing the footage might make Kelly quit.

It's still unprofessional what he has done though. Players joining in singing a few Irish pub songs when they're pissed out of their mind is not the same thing as a manager showing a political video that is going to cause offence.

The same fans saying anyone who is offended by the video can feck off - are the same fans who will say after our next shocker result to some bang average team 'if only we still had Grealish and Rice we'd be able to qualify for tournaments again'. Grealish coming from Birmingham and knowing all about the bombings there in the past, I wouldn't say he'd have enjoyed seeing a motivational video in an Ireland camp using past atrocities from either side to motivate the squad, even if it was only for 30 seconds.
 

spontaneus1

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Most people in Ireland are fully behind Stephen Kenny because they know he's a top bloke who would never purposely go out of his way to cause offence. Maybe himself and Alan Kelly haven't seen eye to eye since the start and he thought showing the footage might make Kelly quit.

It's still unprofessional what he has done though. Players joining in singing a few Irish pub songs when they're pissed out of their mind is not the same thing as a manager showing a political video that is going to cause offence.

The same fans saying anyone who is offended by the video can feck off - are the same fans who will say after our next shocker result to some bang average team 'if only we still had Grealish and Rice we'd be able to qualify for tournaments again'. Grealish coming from Birmingham and knowing all about the bombings there in the past, I wouldn't say he'd have enjoyed seeing a motivational video in an Ireland camp using past atrocities from either side to motivate the squad, even if it was only for 30 seconds.
I'm sorry but what's unprofessional about what hes done? He's shown a motivational video of scenes from the 1916 rising intermixed with goals of Ireland vs England.

What's shocking is some rushing to eat up the Mails anti Irish mantra they been beating for ages, particularly since the Brexit referendum. I guess some have internalised the idea the paddies shouldn't be getting uppity though.
 

Champagne Football

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I'm sorry but what's unprofessional about what hes done? He's shown a motivational video of scenes from the 1916 rising intermixed with goals of Ireland vs England.

What's shocking is some rushing to eat up the Mails anti Irish mantra they been beating for ages, particularly since the Brexit referendum. I guess some have internalised the idea the paddies shouldn't be getting uppity though.
Unprofessional in that it has caused a member of his backroom team to report the incident to the Daily Mail, when the same backroom team member had already warned that the footage will cause offence to one or two in the squad, resulting a mini crisis that could easily have been avoided.

If a member of the backroom team took offence to it, then it's very likely one or two players of the same mixed Irish/English background may have been offended also. How can you know what does and does not cause offence to someone of mixed nationalities if you haven't been in that situation yourself?

Imagine Utd are playing Boca Juniors in a World Semi Final where Heinze and Tevez are in the squad, and Fergie decides to put a 30 second clip of the Falklands War on the video to get the squad pumped for the big match?
 
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Xaviboy

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If story is true and the video was shown for motivational reasons well it certainly worked. Got hammered by England B team who really didnt get out of 2nd gear. Hats off to Stephen Kenny and crew.
 

spontaneus1

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Unprofessional in that it has caused a member of his backroom team to report the incident to the Daily Mail, when the same backroom team member had already warned that the footage will cause offence to one or two in the squad, resulting a mini crisis that could easily have been avoided.

If a member of the backroom team took offence to it, then it's very likely one or two players of the same mixed Irish/English background may have been offended also. How can you know what does and does not cause offence to someone of mixed nationalities if you haven't been in that situation yourself?

Imagine Utd are playing Boca Juniors in a World Semi Final where Heinze and Tevez are in the squad, and Fergie decides to put a 30 second clip of the Falklands War on the video to get the squad pumped for the big match?
I'm sorry man but if your offended by scenes of Ireland winning Ireland attempting to win its freedom why the feck are you playing for Ireland?

Alan Kelly is just an example of the knives that have been out for Kenny before he even got the job, it shows by the fact he decided to run to the daily Mail of all outlets about it. If Kelly had been so concerned surely it would have been better to deal with internally rather than selling to the story to one of the lowest forms of so called journalism that is the Mail.

As for you club example is makes no sense as in that scenario Heinze would have taken the decision to represent England.

My whole point is if players are upset by what is shown they shouldn't be representing Ireland in the first place.
 

spontaneus1

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Anyway, everyone with it in for Kenny I'm sure you will get you wish soon enough and we will be stuck with Robbie fecking Keane as our Manager.
 

Withnail

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Most people in Ireland are fully behind Stephen Kenny because they know he's a top bloke who would never purposely go out of his way to cause offence. Maybe himself and Alan Kelly haven't seen eye to eye since the start and he thought showing the footage might make Kelly quit.

It's still unprofessional what he has done though. Players joining in singing a few Irish pub songs when they're pissed out of their mind is not the same thing as a manager showing a political video that is going to cause offence.

The same fans saying anyone who is offended by the video can feck off - are the same fans who will say after our next shocker result to some bang average team 'if only we still had Grealish and Rice we'd be able to qualify for tournaments again'. Grealish coming from Birmingham and knowing all about the bombings there in the past, I wouldn't say he'd have enjoyed seeing a motivational video in an Ireland camp using past atrocities from either side to motivate the squad, even if it was only for 30 seconds.
You've been laying this on a bit thick.

It's a storm in a tea cup and the most that will come out of this is possibly Alan Kelly leaving the set up.
 

POF

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I honestly can't believe this story. What is the world coming to?

International football is all about pride in playing for your country and understanding its history is part of that. Like it or not "800 years of British oppression" will always be part of Ireland's history.

Using that as motivation when you have a team of utter no hopers vs a team of Premier League stars? I'd be disappointed if he didn't.

If Kelly has given this story to the papers, he has let himself down massively and should never be anywhere near an Irish squad again.
 

Mr Anderson

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It’s all come from someone with an agenda, be it Alan Kelly or whoever. Worse things have been said and done in a dressing room. For this to be leaked is a bit weird. You can only imagine McClean on the bus playing rebel songs (didn’t Robbie Keane do this too?) which have way more and deeper meaning than a partial clip of a video would bring.

The only issue here is Kenny feeling the need to try raise a performance by using a video instead of being inspirational in words.
 

Withnail

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It’s all come from someone with an agenda, be it Alan Kelly or whoever. Worse things have been said and done in a dressing room. For this to be leaked is a bit weird. You can only imagine McClean on the bus playing rebel songs (didn’t Robbie Keane do this too?) which have way more and deeper meaning than a partial clip of a video would bring.

The only issue here is Kenny feeling the need to try raise a performance by using a video instead of being inspirational in words.
He spoke to the team after the video apparently.
 

Roy'sMagicHat

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Lads, I’m Limerick born and bred but the chip on the shoulder of the Irish when it comes to the Brits in this day and age, it drives me cracked.

We’re here on an English football club’s fan site, if we were that hardcore and patriotic, it’d be very simple, go off and support your own local club.

We’re simply not in a position to abuse the English/Brits. Get over it and move on.

Manchester United and Old Trafford (all in England) is our happy place.
 
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Still ill

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As usual, the whole thing brings out the worst in everybody. Twitter awash with awful shite from both sides. That scumbag Kelvin Mackenzie leading the charge. Nice piece on him by Keith Duggan in the Irish Times.
 

sullydnl

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I'm sorry man but if your offended by scenes of Ireland winning Ireland attempting to win its freedom why the feck are you playing for Ireland?

Alan Kelly is just an example of the knives that have been out for Kenny before he even got the job, it shows by the fact he decided to run to the daily Mail of all outlets about it. If Kelly had been so concerned surely it would have been better to deal with internally rather than selling to the story to one of the lowest forms of so called journalism that is the Mail.

As for you club example is makes no sense as in that scenario Heinze would have taken the decision to represent England.

My whole point is if players are upset by what is shown they shouldn't be representing Ireland in the first place.
Not sure how you can say that unless you've seen the video or know exactly what was in it?

A video referring to Anglo-Irish history could be totally inoffensive, or it could be an obviously inappropriate thing to show before a friendly game of football. It depends entirely on the content and tone. As well as the content and tone of any speech that followed. I'm sure there are videos depicting versions of Irish history that even I as a person with no real ties to England would find objectionable, so the idea that all Irish players should be fine with any and all depictions of the country's history is silly.

And in the case of the Irish football team and their staff, you're not just showing it to the average Irish person. You are inevitably showing it to Irish people who actually live(d) in England, a lot of whom will be married to English people, a lot of whom will have English children, a lot of whom will have been born/raised in England and some of whom will no doubt feel partly English.

More so than in the population generally, there's reason the err on the side of caution when using Anglo-Irish history as a motivator in that case. Particularly right before an utterly pointless game.

Though I don't think there's any chance of Kenny being in serious trouble unless it was an egregiously offensive video and if it was egregiously offensive then I think we'd have heard more about it at this point. The main value is in asking why he bothered with such a naff approach to motivating the team in this context and why the story was then leaked.