Ogden: Mourinho eyes Man United clear-out

bond19821982

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Sorry, if he is going to sell Martial before giving him a proper run in, then I would like to see a new manager.

Pretty concerning that most of the targets are all on the wrong side of 20s .
 

AndyJ1985

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The way people get hysteric over Martial potentially leaving, or even being dropped from the team, is hilarious given the fact he's rubbish most of the time he starts.
 

Daniel Moore

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I'll ignore the ridiculous comparisons and hyperbole in that post and simply say that a manager who cannot work with a talent like Martial and instead chooses the Perisics of this world isn't the right fit for taking the team forward as you put it.
This lol

Martial and januzaj wtf
 

DomesticTadpole

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What we really need is the manager to get Sanchez, Pogba playing properly. If he doesn't do that it is a ridiculous amount of money wasted again.
 

Damien

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They were asking for stupid money for him anyway. Also his form dropped off a cliff for a big part of the season, although he did score this weekend. Isn't Bale a bit risky for the money, age and injury record. He is however the sort of signing Ed likes. Just what we need another player who does not want to leave Real. Surely there is some talented younger player out there. Why can't we go for the Sane type?
I have a feeling (probably way wrong) that we'll move to 433 on a more permanent basis next season, buy a new starting right winger and promote Chong who could fit that description.
 

FerociousCorgis

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The way people get hysteric over Martial potentially leaving, or even being dropped from the team, is hilarious given the fact he's rubbish most of the time he starts.
definitely. Not like he was just man of the month before sanchez was brought in and martial was shunted all over the place or straight dropped.
 

Witchking

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Martial hasn't done anything to warrant that sort of respect. People said the same exact thing about Januzaj. There are lots of wonderkids that never fulfilled their potential, and Martial is not yet critical enough to us in terms of his actual performance to be seemed so valuable as to choose him over the manager. If you said the same about Pogba, I might have agreed, but Martial has never shown that superstar level of quality that Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi, showed at that age. For all we know, Martial could be the next Ryan Babel. Until he starts to show consistent performances, our fans really should be less engulfed in getting the best out of individual players who hold the keys to their own success, and rather should focus on how to move the team forward.
This is so screwed up :lol:

To show consistent performances, you need to be played consistently in your best position. He plays best as a Left side forward, not a winger which is he playing as. Same for Rashford. In Martial's case, if Jose intends to sell him then I don't trust Jose to get united back to the top.

If Martial goes, he will become a better player for sure and it will come back to bite Jose, the same way KDB did.
 

Raoul

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I'll ignore the ridiculous comparisons and hyperbole in that post and simply say that a manager who cannot work with a talent like Martial and instead chooses the Perisics of this world isn't the right fit for taking the team forward as you put it.
I'm a Martial fan as well but lets get real, the needs of the squad in terms of what Mourinho wants to do may not necessarily align with the idea of keeping Martial here at all costs.
 

Jacko21

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I don't know the person so I can't really judge. However he's been criticised by both Mourinho and Pocchetino which speaks volumes about his attitude.
You seldom read/hear anything good about him.

Plenty of players are guilty of overindulging in their new found fame and wealth, but it's testament to their character and application that they can move past that or at the very least maintain their standards in training an in games. Shaw just doesn't seem to have matured.

Doubtless his injury set him back. But at this moment in time, United can't afford to wait for him. And so for all concerned, a move away would suit.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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So the idea of reducing the 'churn' of players is out of the window then, mass changes rarely work click quickly, which is what we need, and in WC year deals are likely to be delayed, not sure bodes too well tbh.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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The way people get hysteric over Martial potentially leaving, or even being dropped from the team, is hilarious given the fact he's rubbish most of the time he starts.
Martial is a player who is fantastic in tight situations (how many of these players we have, 3?) that is a necessity in the modern game, has great close control and is a class finisher.
He has his flaws, but I imagine it’s really difficult to pick up form when you are in and out of the team all the time, especially for an attacker.
 
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Kapardin

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Sorry, if he is going to sell Martial before giving him a proper run in, then I would like to see a new manager.

Pretty concerning that most of the targets are all on the wrong side of 20s .
Don't believe that nonsense. Ogden is just guessing at this point. I could have actually said all that.

Martial is valued not only by the fans, but even Woodward, so he isn't going anywhere.
 

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So, another potential mass clear-out over the summer, then it's another season of "new players, the team needs time to gel, next season!". Sounds nice.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I have a feeling (probably way wrong) that we'll move to 433 on a more permanent basis next season, buy a new starting right winger and promote Chong who could fit that description.
Hope we do something as that right side is abysmal. Hope they replace Valencia as well and just keep him as backup as a class attacking RB with the same on the left and we could be devastating.
 

tjb

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There's far too much protection for our young players. If he doesn't work out here, or is not deemed valuable enough to keep, why bother ourselves worrying about him leaving. Martial is the only one that can get the best out of himself. Here is a guy that doesn't press, that doesn't make runs off the ball, and that doesn't show aggression in attacking consistently. If he did these things, he would be a key player for us.
 

Varun

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I'm a Martial fan as well but lets get real, the needs of the squad in terms of what Mourinho wants to do may not necessarily align with the idea of keeping Martial here at all costs.
This is Mourinho who's been moaning about our squad and Manchester United we're talking about. If he sells martial, it will be because he doesnt want him and not because we needed funds to fund a purchase.
 

devilish

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You seldom read/hear anything good about him.

Plenty of players are guilty of overindulging in their new found fame and wealth, but it's testament to their character and application that they can move past that or at the very least maintain their standards in training an in games. Shaw just doesn't seem to have matured.

Doubtless his injury set him back. But at this moment in time, United can't afford to wait for him. And so for all concerned, a move away would suit.
If injury is the culprit here then we might keep him as backup or send him on loan. If its attitude then we're better off selling him up. Football had become so 'industrial' these days that its almost impossible for players to rely just on talent to succeed. The Bests, the Maradonas and the Gazzas would struggle in today's football and lets face it, Shaw is nowhere near to those giants.
 

tjb

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This is so screwed up :lol:

To show consistent performances, you need to be played consistently in your best position. He plays best as a Left side forward, not a winger which is he playing as. Same for Rashford. In Martial's case, if Jose intends to sell him then I don't trust Jose to get united back to the top.

If Martial goes, he will become a better player for sure and it will come back to bite Jose, the same way KDB did.
He is not important enough yet to demand a role as specific as that to perform. Imagine if he was at Bayern or Barcelona. Would they're fans ever tell the manager to play an unproven player in a role as specific as that. Essentially you want the team to change the system to accomodate Martial. Systems are changed to accomodate actual star players. It would be as ridiculous as Bayern Munich running a 433 simply to accomodate Kingsley Coman.
 

rique_don

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It's about time. To be honest, I would not mind if we sold everybody not named Pogba, Lukaku, De Gea, Sanchez, Bailly, and Matic. Everyone else, should be sellable, regardless of age or price. When Mourinho came, I expected a ruthless clearout of the squad as he'd done in the past, but he gave players opportunities and chances throughout the run. Part of me feels that sentimentality from the Europe League win also contributed to him not selling many players last summer, but now, there is nothing to lose, and the 3 star players that he has kept have continued to show him how mediocre they can be. I legitimately look at our team and think that a lot of these players would not make it at Everton, which is mid-table, so they are relegation fodder or championship players. So if we can finally clear these type of players out and replace them with guys that at minimum give 7/10 performances, not Valencia's 5/10 that people call a 7, then we might start actually looking like the top european team we are.
This will not solve the issue. Will we sell Mourinho too? He has made several blunders the past few years. His judgement is flawed. Salah and De Bruyne come to mind. He has been outcoached a lot. That's not down to the players. This is the same man who wanted to force Cristiano to adapt his defensive methodology and when He didn't publicly lambasted him. I wonder who won that battle? I would love to see what Mourinho would have done with Best and Cantona. He certainly wouldn't have brought the best out of them. There in lies the issue. Anyone who isn't mechanical in their application and plays off the cuff is an issue for him including Salah, De Bruyne and Cristiano. The man is a system only coach and non adaptive. I question his ability to realize true potential in players who play the game in a 'poetic' manner.
 

Raoul

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This is Mourinho who's been moaning about our squad and Manchester United we're talking about. If he sells martial, it will be because he doesnt want him and not because we needed funds to fund a purchase.
You talk of him like he's some random Red Cafe moaner. He's the manager and its his view that will be implemented at the club. There's no doubt that if he sells Tony that it will be because he wants another player to replace him, who he feels would do a better job at specially what he wants out of the position.
 
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In an ideal world, I would have Blind, Darmian, Smalling and Jones out from the defence. Sign one world class centre back to partner Bailly, and then we have Lindelof and Rojo as cover. It looks certain Shaw's days are numbered, so buy a top class left back.

In midfield Carrick and Fellaini will be gone; I would replace with one top quality player, as we already have Pogba, Matic and Herrera.

That's seven out and three in. More quality and less quantity, with highest quality in every position. I doubt such radical change will happen, yet, IMHO, we have far too much deadwood hanging around. We need to be leaner and meaner.

I forgot Zlatan, who will also be away, of course.
 

spiriticon

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These need to be moved on:

Carrick (retire)
Zlatan (most pointless renewal ever)
Darmian (crap)
Blind (I like him but never plays)
Shaw (arrrgh)
Fellaini (meh)

I wouldn't mind if Herrera went as well, but only if the offer is good.

Incoming:

Right and left back is a top priority. No idea who, but not Danny Rose jesus christ. I wouldn't mind spending 60 million on each, like City did last year.

If there is cash left over, another decent centre mid would be good.
 

rique_don

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He is not important enough yet to demand a role as specific as that to perform. Imagine if he was at Bayern or Barcelona. Would they're fans ever tell the manager to play an unproven player in a role as specific as that. Essentially you want the team to change the system to accomodate Martial. Systems are changed to accomodate actual star players. It would be as ridiculous as Bayern Munich running a 433 simply to accomodate Kingsley Coman.
The fans would not. However, we have priors with Mourinho. Salah and De Bruyne come glaringly to mind. To somehow think that he may not be making a huge mistake especially in light of recent blunders with young players is naive. Is Martial good enough to prosper and become world class under say Klopp, Pep or Poch or even Allegri? Yes. Why can't he do it under Mourinho? The same reasons Salah and De Bruyne couldn't. I am not a Van Gaal fan but he was certainly better for Rashford and Martial than Mourinho sadly. Rashford never looked this raw under Van Gaal and he was two years younger.
 

Champagne Football

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Why would Fred play that high when he has been moved to CM a long time ago?
I agree but I was trying to think of one of those wingers Jose likes like Willian or Perisic who primarily are hard working defenders more than anything who can also be deadly in attack when needed there. Anyways I've just changed it to Bale in that line up who is actually pretty realistic when you consider Real want him gone and we're one of few teams who can afford him
 

SwSw

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These need to be moved on:

Carrick (retire)
Zlatan (most pointless renewal ever)
Darmian (crap)
Blind (I like him but never plays)
Shaw (arrrgh)

I wouldn't mind if Herrera went as well, but only if the offer is good.

Incoming:

Right and left back is a top priority. No idea who, but not Danny Rose jesus christ. I wouldn't mind spending 60 million on each, like City did last year.

If there is cash left over, another decent centre mid would be good.
I think the RB position should be prioritize over the LB position if funds are limited. In my opinion, the following priority in the market should be as follows:

RB
CM
LB
CM

Ideally, i think we should get a RB who could provide the width we sorely miss on the right flank. It would definitely be a bonus if we had the engine and robustness of Valencia. The RB is prioritized over the LB since most of our attacks seems to be there and Mourinho's tactics seems to be asymmetrical where he overloads one flank.

A CM who plays on the right of the 3 man midfield if we are going to play 4-3-3 next season. McTominay could be the understudy to said midfielder.
 

André Dominguez

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There are a few interesting names we could get the hands into before they go to top clubs. Because when we chase top clubs players we will get robbed in the tag price.

Rodri from Villarreal would be a nice gamble, Jorge from Monaco is showing tons of potential, Odriozola from Real Sociedad looks an interessting prospect and Sansson from Marseille is worth the shot.
 

tjb

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The fans would not. However, we have priors with Mourinho. Salah and De Bruyne come glaringly to mind. To somehow think that he may not be making a huge mistake especially in light of recent blunders with young players is naive. Is Martial good enough to prosper and become world class under say Klopp, Pep or Poch or even Allegri? Yes. Why can't he do it under Mourinho? The same reasons Salah and De Bruyne couldn't. I am not a Van Gaal fan but he was certainly better for Rashford and Martial than Mourinho sadly. Rashford never looked this raw under Van Gaal and he was two years younger.
So he made two mistakes in 15 years of management. Mistakes that still led to him winning the league that season with a squad young enough to continue to win after he left. The fact remains that Martial is in a situation where he doesn't face the type of quality competiton either Salah or Debruyne faced at Chelsea, and yet he is unable to lay claim to a starting 11 spot due to inconsistency. You can argue that Debruyne and Salah were not given proper opportunities, but at Man Utd, no one can deny that of Martial.
 

Jim Beam

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Carrick and Ibra are already out. Shaw, Darmian, Blind, Fellaini most likely and don't have any problem with it. We should stop there, though.
 

Ødegaard

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The fact we have extended Young's contract, I hope it is as a backup. We need younger there. Also a new RB. I am sorry but we have to attack from both sides, otherwise they will just close one side down as they nothing is coming down the right.
I agree.
I was merely noting the minimum of what I think will happen.

If I was to choose then it would like something like this:
Sell/let go of:
Carrick, Ibrahimovic, Blind, Shaw, Mata (making space for right-winger, selling while we can get something), Jones (injury plagued, want to make space for a proper CB who fits with Bailly/Rojo, someone with the physical attributes of Smalling with better feet), Fellaini & Darmian.

Buy:
Raphael Varane (or someone with similar qualities, Alderweireld is a option), Alex Sandro, Sergej Milinkovic-Savic and have the scouts find two players who could do a proper job on right-back and right-wing.

Demote to backup:
Young & Valencia

Promote to backup:
TFM & Tuanzebe, maybe Pereira (haven't watched La liga but sounds like he can be a decent backup for us)

First team would be:
M/R - Lukaku - Sanchez/New RW
Pogba - Matic - SMS
Sandro - Varane/Alderweireld - Bailly - New RB
De Gea

Varane & Bailly / Rojo & Mike as preferred partnerships to have one pressing (Rojo/Bailly) and one covering and providing aerial safety (Varane/Mike)

I'd prefer a RW who will dribble and go for the cross as most/all our current wing alternatives camp or run towards the middle. Could be unimportant of the RB is great going forward.

Think the key signings would be Alex Sandro & SMS as Sandro is world class on left-back whole SMS i think would be fantastic (tons of long-range goals, through balls, height to push through midfield with long-ball while not being nearly as slow as Fellaini.

Wishful thinking, but fun thoughts nonetheless.
 

Cassidy

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I'm a Martial fan as well but lets get real, the needs of the squad in terms of what Mourinho wants to do may not necessarily align with the idea of keeping Martial here at all costs.
The club should be looking at whether or not Jose plans are in line with their idea of the future of the club.
 

Ødegaard

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Il give you blind and Shaw but Shaw and Blind were bought for decent money and on a decent wage.
Nasri, Hart, Sagna, Clichy, Bony, Nolito, iheanacho, Fernando, Kolarov, Zabaleta, Mangala & Navas.
They are/were of similar stature and ability as the players we'd be getting rid of.
 

tjb

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The club should be looking at whether or not Jose plans are in line with their idea of the future of the club.
At the end of the day, I think this really comes down to Martial vs Rashford. Personally I prefer Martial. He is more likely to be a more dangerous threat of the two based on current ability. However, Rashford has both the homegrown factor and more enthusiastic approach as regards Man Utd. When it comes down to it, I feel the club will keep Rashford, as his nationality makes him more attached to the club.
 

simonhch

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Verratti seems available for around 80-100. Buy him and Fred for the midfield. Sandro as a left back. And a right winger.

250m spent. Then you can pull in money for Darmian, Shaw, Fellaini, and Blind. Leaving a net of around 200m.

That’s what it’s going to take.
 

gajender

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The club should be looking at whether or not Jose plans are in line with their idea of the future of the club.
Agree with this I believe Martial is going nowhere unless he forces the move , Club would back Jose but only within reason last season showed that when we refused to pay exorbitant fee for Perisic despite Mourinho's clamouring for that fourth signing.
 

Raoul

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The club should be looking at whether or not Jose plans are in line with their idea of the future of the club.
They've already done that by way of awarding Mourinho an extension a mere 8 weeks ago. Therefore I'd imagine he has the full backing of everyone at the club to proceed accordingly.
 

spiriticon

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Ideally, i think we should get a RB who could provide the width we sorely miss on the right flank. It would definitely be a bonus if we had the engine and robustness of Valencia. The RB is prioritized over the LB since most of our attacks seems to be there and Mourinho's tactics seems to be asymmetrical where he overloads one flank.
Definitely. That right wing needs to be addressed since there is zero threat from that side. Valencia's usefulness on the right stops at the halfway line, and no matter which attacker we stick on the right wing its just crap.

If only we had someone like Dani Alves. That would bring so much balance as teams can't just mark our left sided players out the game for an easy tactic.