Old Trafford - Tired, Worn - Jamie Jackson piece

TrustInOle

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I’ve expressed my opinion on this subject a few times but the bottom line is the stadium is outdated, looks ugly, had weeds sticking out when I went on a ground tour.

That’s why I’m in favour of going down the Spurs route but it needs Bin Salman’s resources to achieve that.
This though, I disagree. Old Trafford is a world famous piece of british history that should be held intact and refurbished as much as possibly needed. I never condone the rebuilding of OT, it would go against everything I want changed.
 

charlenefan

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I could handle less creature comforts if it meant the stadium actually got looked after. No mould or cracks, no leaks, re-grouted, re-painted and another whole lot of problems that we probably aren't even aware of. When was the last time anything happened at Old trafford whilst over the last 10 years we have watch most rivals and also foreign teams continually improving their stadium and experience for supporters. But, whatvthe fans want is far from what is in the Glazers mind.
Thing is shouldn't there janitors hired solely to look after shit like that? It's spoken like it's this massive financial overhead but come on it's basic stuff
 

TrustInOle

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Thing is shouldn't there janitors hired solely to look after shit like that? It's spoken like it's this massive financial overhead but come on it's basic stuff
Agreed janitorial duties should handle some of these issues, but the infrastructure of the stadium, which hasnt been looked it in well over 10 years, having cracks, mould, weeds coming through brick all show signs of a building on its way down. Janitors don't fix this, investment does.
Take away the most important aspect and your still left with the fact its old, outdated and getting took over on terms of general modernisation.

Edit. You'd assume if we had Janitors you wouldn't see some of them issues, but you do, what does this also show?
 

Dick Dastardly

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Which is the most iconic, Old Trafford, Anfield or The Racecourse Ground?
 

stubie

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This though, I disagree. Old Trafford is a world famous piece of british history that should be held intact and refurbished as much as possibly needed. I never condone the rebuilding of OT, it would go against everything I want changed.
I understand the sentimental side of things but the stadium is positioned where extending capacity very difficult. A refurbishment only papers over the cracks.

The old Wembley Stadium was pretty much what you described Old Trafford as but it was the right time to knock it down and build a first class new stadium that even now looks just as great as it did when it first opened.
 

TrustInOle

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I understand the sentimental side of things but the stadium is positioned where extending capacity very difficult. A refurbishment only papers over the cracks.

The old Wembley Stadium was pretty much what you described Old Trafford as but it was the right time to knock it down and build a first class new stadium that even now looks just as great as it did when it first opened.
No arguments you could gain an amazing stadium out of a rebuild. But as we have seen with Arsenal and Spurs recently, a new stadium can have a diverse affect. Also, i agree a refurbishment would paper over the cracks, but you wouldn't need to extend the capacity further a field just to improve infrastructure and stability or even supporter experience.
 

Class of 63

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It's the 80's, you're about to have a night of passion with Raquel Welch in a seedy motel room, the place could do with a hoover, the paintwork needs touching up and there's a distinct smell of damp in the air, do you complain about there only being a single bed and leave?
 

stubie

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No arguments you could gain an amazing stadium out of a rebuild. But as we have seen with Arsenal and Spurs recently, a new stadium can have a diverse affect. Also, i agree a refurbishment would paper over the cracks, but you wouldn't need to extend the capacity further a field just to improve infrastructure and stability or even supporter experience.
That’s true in regards to the Spurs and Arsenal stadiums but apart from a few big games every season the atmosphere tends to be quiet. A few Wolves fans I know went to the game on Saturday and all commented on how quiet the atmosphere was in the home end.

A new stadium would not solve that problem but Old Trafford’s current state is a representation of the club as a whole at the moment
 

Tom Cato

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If the fans came out and said that they were ready to say goodbye to Old Trafford and move into a new stadium, then the owners might consider building new. Until then it's just not going to happen. This will require a massive public opinion campaign to get off the tracks.

Right now what's stopping the owners from building a new stadium is the only consideration that they have to take into account: The fans, who will most likely absolutely hate on the very notion of ever moving away from OT. I think i had a reply here or in another thread where I pointed out a lot of the costs connected to improving on OT, but its quite astronomical. It can't happen on the current grounds.
 

TrustInOle

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That’s true in regards to the Spurs and Arsenal stadiums but apart from a few big games every season the atmosphere tends to be quiet. A few Wolves fans I know went to the game on Saturday and all commented on how quiet the atmosphere was in the home end.

A new stadium would not solve that problem but Old Trafford’s current state is a representation of the club as a whole at the moment
Sadly I would have to agree, and don't see anything changing, which in itself is infuriating.
 

TrustInOle

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Which is the most iconic, Old Trafford, Anfield or The Racecourse Ground?
Depends on what it represents to each person surely? I doubt any United fan would argue Anfield is more iconic than Ol Trafford and vice-versa. Doesn't take credence away from the fact Old Trafford is a historical landmark that deserves better.
 

Infra-red

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If the fans came out and said that they were ready to say goodbye to Old Trafford and move into a new stadium, then the owners might consider building new. Until then it's just not going to happen. This will require a massive public opinion campaign to get off the tracks.

Right now what's stopping the owners from building a new stadium is the only consideration that they have to take into account: The fans, who will most likely absolutely hate on the very notion of ever moving away from OT. I think i had a reply here or in another thread where I pointed out a lot of the costs connected to improving on OT, but its quite astronomical. It can't happen on the current grounds.
You could keep OT and simply give it a bit of a refurb (see Camp Nou and Bernabeu). It might cost £500m, though, and the Glazers have absolutely no appetite for that (judging by historic capital investment under their ownership).
 

nothingman96

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Fecking hell, bunch of pansies.

Cramped?! Well that's how it's supposed to be!

If you can't take an hour and a half of standing - yelling your lungs out - and celebrating with complete strangers who share your passion for the club, then feck it, just return the ticket.

If anything, i'd make it smaller, and bring back the standing stand.
Spot on! Some people might be taking the theater part in The Theater of Dreams way too literally.
 

Thiagoal

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I go to over ten home games a season at Old Trafford and still get a buzz every time! It feels like a home from home- steeped in history, memories and nostalgia! Although it’s not as flashy as some stadiums there is no other ive been to that comes remotely close! If we moved to a new ground I’d be really annoyed, sad and I’d probably fall out of love with the club!
 

Rhyme Animal

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It's the 80's, you're about to have a night of passion with Raquel Welch in a seedy motel room, the place could do with a hoover, the paintwork needs touching up and there's a distinct smell of damp in the air, do you complain about there only being a single bed and leave?
Why are you constantly writing from the viewpoint that absolves the Glazer ownership of doing anything?

No real Utd fan talks like this, it's laughable.

It seems fairly obvious you're a WUM, and not even a well disguised one.
 

Class of 63

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Why are you constantly writing from the viewpoint that absolves the Glazer ownership of doing anything?

No real Utd fan talks like this, it's laughable.

It seems fairly obvious you're a WUM, and not even a well disguised one.
If all you are tasked with in life is to spot obvious WUM's on a football forum i'd give up now because well quite frankly you're not very good at it, just saying.

I've said elsewhere, probably earlier in this thread, that if Manchester United were winning Leagues and Champions Leagues nobody would give two shits about Old Trafford, it's fine as it is, it's not as modern as Stadiums built in the last few years, but hello it's not going to be, is it?

And you didn't answer the question.

I'm not absolving anybody, I just don't feel the need as many do to agree with everything the press put out there for their own amusement:

Owners/CEO - Thieves/Conman ✔
Manager - Nice but Dim, Farmer's League is his level ✔
Squad - Deadwood, wannabees and lucky bastards ✔
Old Trafford - Jerry Built, should be knocked down and United should build a new Stadium more suitable for a club in decline ✔

Rinse friggin repeat. zzzzz
 

TrustInOle

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If all you are tasked with in life is to spot obvious WUM's on a football forum i'd give up now because well quite frankly you're not very good at it, just saying.

I've said elsewhere, probably earlier in this thread, that if Manchester United were winning Leagues and Champions Leagues nobody would give two shits about Old Trafford, it's fine as it is, it's not as modern as Stadiums built in the last few years, but hello it's not going to be, is it?

And you didn't answer the question.

I'm not absolving anybody, I just don't feel the need as many do to agree with everything the press put out there for their own amusement:

Owners/CEO - Thieves/Conman ✔
Manager - Nice but Dim, Farmer's League is his level ✔
Squad - Deadwood, wannabees and lucky bastards ✔
Old Trafford - Jerry Built, should be knocked down and United should build a new Stadium more suitable for a club in decline ✔

Rinse friggin repeat. zzzzz
Fairly certain people gave a shit about Old Trafford when we were winning? What is this logic? Don't need to listen to the press to see evidence yourself. Also don't think many are asking for a new stadium? Only this one is looked after better. What is wrong with having this opinion?
 

jimmyb2000

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It's the 80's, you're about to have a night of passion with Raquel Welch in a seedy motel room, the place could do with a hoover, the paintwork needs touching up and there's a distinct smell of damp in the air, do you complain about there only being a single bed and leave?
You're showing your age here.....I'd imagine around 95% of posters on here wouldn't even know who Raquel Welch is.
 

Class of 63

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Fairly certain people gave a shit about Old Trafford when we were winning? What is this logic? Don't need to listen to the press to see evidence yourself. Also don't think many are asking for a new stadium? Only this one is looked after better. What is wrong with having this opinion?
Don't recall too many fans complaining about Old Trafford when we were winning Trophies left right and centre, maybe saying it looked like a warehouse and a tad cramped in certain areas, but that's about it, certainly none of this it's embarrassing for a club of our standing nonsense anyway.

What evidence? Don't mention a few second video of a leaking roof after a monsoon, please.

Nowt wrong with having an opinion, as long as you agree with those that say Old Trafford is embarrassing, apparently
 

TrustInOle

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Don't recall too many fans complaining about Old Trafford when we were winning Trophies left right and centre, maybe saying it looked like a warehouse and a tad cramped in certain areas, but that's about it, certainly none of this it's embarrassing for a club of our standing nonsense anyway.

What evidence? Don't mention a few second video of a leaking roof after a monsoon, please.

Nowt wrong with having an opinion, as long as you agree with those that say Old Trafford is embarrassing, apparently
I have gave my own first hand accounts of what I experience when I go to Old Trafford, nothing to do with any viral footage. Its there if you look.

Also nowhere have I said Old Trafford is embarrassing? I have said it is under invested, and infrastructurally not as sound as it should be.
 

Redplane

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At least OT is still better than Nou Camp and San Siro. Sort of. Nou Camp may be better now since the last time I saw it bc boy was that a pit. A big pit.. But still a pit. Don't forget Bayern played in a relic of yesteryear too for the longest time.
 

Class of 63

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You're showing your age here.....I'd imagine around 95% of posters on here wouldn't even know who Raquel Welch is.
I'm sure one or two of those 95% have googled her, and are probably watching One Million Years B.C., Mother, Jugs and Speed, Fathom or Naked Gun 33¾: The Final Insult, right now

Preferred Brigitte Bardot myself, but ....
 

Class of 63

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I have gave my own first hand accounts of what I experience when I go to Old Trafford, nothing to do with any viral footage. Its there if you look.

Also nowhere have I said Old Trafford is embarrassing? I have said it is under invested, and infrastructurally not as sound as it should be.
I didn't say you said it was embarrassing, was generalising, yes it needs work, but as we haven't got a bottomless pit all extras monies will go on the squad(and rightly so) and the stadium will have to wait, yet the way some fans go on you'd think it's resembles Maine Road* or Stamford Bridge in the 70's and 80's

*former Stadium of Man City, before the moved into a new Stadium partially funded by Manchester United fans, "neighbours, everybody loves good neighbours"
 

Rhyme Animal

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Don't recall too many fans complaining about Old Trafford when we were winning Trophies left right and centre...
The whole point is that it has declined in the last 10 years particularly - when Utd were last winning trophies 'left right and centre' OT wasn't in the state it's in now.

And further more, the standard of modern stadia has increased in that 10 years, while OT has declined.

The owners have gotten away with investing utterly nothing into the stadium in that time - probably because the job they do with the footy is so bad that other glaring examples of their negligent ownership essentially pale in comparison.
 

Class of 63

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The whole point is that it has declined in the last 10 years particularly - when Utd were last winning trophies 'left right and centre' OT wasn't in the state it's in now.

And further more, the standard of modern stadia has increased in that 10 years, while OT has declined.

The owners have gotten away with investing utterly nothing into the stadium in that time - probably because the job they do with the footy is so bad that other glaring examples of their negligent ownership essentially pale in comparison.
They could build a new Buckingham Palace right next to the current one and it would almost certainly look better than the original and meet most of the safety requirements, but if you asked tourists/traditionalist which one they'd prefer to visit i'd say only those in the wrong queue when they were handing brains out would prefer the new one. It's the same with stadiums, all, or nearly all of the recent new builds are soulless uninspiring places.

If comfort is more important than the experience, stay at home.
 

Rhyme Animal

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They could build a new Buckingham Palace right next to the current one and it would almost certainly look better than the original and meet most of the safety requirements, but if you asked tourists/traditionalist which one they'd prefer to visit i'd say only those in the wrong queue when they were handing brains out would prefer the new one. It's the same with stadiums, all, or nearly all of the recent new builds are soulless uninspiring places.

If comfort is more important than the experience, stay at home.
Yeah, I'm not advocating moving the stadium, or building a new one...

I'm advocating Old Trafford being properly fecking maintained by the owners and brought up to modern Elite stadium standards.

Can't imagine a single Utd fan wouldn't want the same - are you saying that you'd prefer that not be the case?
 

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Yeah, I'm not advocating moving the stadium, or building a new one...

I'm advocating Old Trafford being properly fecking maintained by the owners and brought up to modern Elite stadium standards.

Can't imagine a single Utd fan wouldn't want the same - are you saying that you'd prefer that not be the case?
What can the owners do though? The club long before the Glazers took over found reasons/excuses for not upgrading the now Sir Bobby Charlton stand because of the Railway Line, and the houses behind it even after purchasing most of said houses saying it would be cheaper to move to a new stadium and it probably would, the fact the club now own most if not all the land surrounding Old Trafford suggests that is more likely of the two options - even if they chose the first option, ie. partially knocking down the SBC stand then build up and across to mirror the Sir Alex Ferguson stand and quadrants completing the bowl affect and putting on a new roof there's not much they could do with the existing built without seriously restricting the Capacity - and i'm not sure spending circa £1bn to upgrade, and only upping the capacity by 10,000 or less makes much sense financially.

In 30 years time, whoever the owners are, we'll probably have a brand new state of the art stadium within a hop, skip and jump distance of Old Trafford, and most of us that are/were most against any move will be long 6 foot under. So there's that to look forward to, we might have sorted the squad out by then as well.
 

Rhyme Animal

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What can the owners do though? The club long before the Glazers took over found reasons/excuses for not upgrading the now Sir Bobby Charlton stand because of the Railway Line, and the houses behind it even after purchasing most of said houses saying it would be cheaper to move to a new stadium and it probably would, the fact the club now own most if not all the land surrounding Old Trafford suggests that is more likely of the two options - even if they chose the first option, ie. partially knocking down the SBC stand then build up and across to mirror the Sir Alex Ferguson stand and quadrants completing the bowl affect and putting on a new roof there's not much they could do with the existing built without seriously restricting the Capacity - and i'm not sure spending circa £1bn to upgrade, and only upping the capacity by 10,000 or less makes much sense financially.

In 30 years time, whoever the owners are, we'll probably have a brand new state of the art stadium within a hop, skip and jump distance of Old Trafford, and most of us that are/were most against any move will be long 6 foot under. So there's that to look forward to, we might have sorted the squad out by then as well.
'It's a gradual rebuild and it's gonna take time...'
 

Sandikan

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What can the owners do though? The club long before the Glazers took over found reasons/excuses for not upgrading the now Sir Bobby Charlton stand because of the Railway Line, and the houses behind it even after purchasing most of said houses saying it would be cheaper to move to a new stadium and it probably would, the fact the club now own most if not all the land surrounding Old Trafford suggests that is more likely of the two options - even if they chose the first option, ie. partially knocking down the SBC stand then build up and across to mirror the Sir Alex Ferguson stand and quadrants completing the bowl affect and putting on a new roof there's not much they could do with the existing built without seriously restricting the Capacity - and i'm not sure spending circa £1bn to upgrade, and only upping the capacity by 10,000 or less makes much sense financially.

In 30 years time, whoever the owners are, we'll probably have a brand new state of the art stadium within a hop, skip and jump distance of Old Trafford, and most of us that are/were most against any move will be long 6 foot under. So there's that to look forward to, we might have sorted the squad out by then as well.
If only there was some way to just move the whole stadium 200metres away from that bloody railway line :lol:
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Why are you constantly writing from the viewpoint that absolves the Glazer ownership of doing anything?

No real Utd fan talks like this, it's laughable.

It seems fairly obvious you're a WUM, and not even a well disguised one.

Yeah, I've had my suspicions for a long time mate. This particular comment serves no purposes whatsoever - it literally cannot be denied that they've neglected the upkeep and appearance of the ground, let alone trying to progress it to keep up with rivals. Anyone who does refute that, like matey there, rings serious alarm bells.
 

Sandikan

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Yeah, I'm not advocating moving the stadium, or building a new one...

I'm advocating Old Trafford being properly fecking maintained by the owners and brought up to modern Elite stadium standards.

Can't imagine a single Utd fan wouldn't want the same - are you saying that you'd prefer that not be the case?
It sounds good of course, but what do we realistically thing is included in any "Upgrade"

For instance, East 2 has 40 rows.
To get more leg room etc, you'd simply have to reduce the amount of rows. There's no space to keep at 40, and give more leg room. Or is there?
Or are we meaning sprucing things up, lick of paints, etc?
 

Falcow

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Its iconic and I much prefer the shape to the bland bowls that are now the norm such as the Emptyad and the Emirates for example. That said, it needs a lot of TLC, the difference between OT and the Bernabeu is like night and day, over head heaters as standard in the Bernabeu for example. However ticket prices are much cheaper for OT in fairness.
 

Rhyme Animal

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It sounds good of course, but what do we realistically thing is included in any "Upgrade"

For instance, East 2 has 40 rows.
To get more leg room etc, you'd simply have to reduce the amount of rows. There's no space to keep at 40, and give more leg room. Or is there?
Or are we meaning sprucing things up, lick of paints, etc?
Yeah, I'm more talking about actually maintaining the stadium properly and keeping it as is size and shape-wise.

Nothing major! Thus why I think it's disgraceful that the Glazers have allowed it's standards to drop (as with literally everything within the club).
 

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Yeah, I've had my suspicions for a long time mate. This particular comment serves no purposes whatsoever - it literally cannot be denied that they've neglected the upkeep and appearance of the ground, let alone trying to progress it to keep up with rivals. Anyone who does refute that, like matey there, rings serious alarm bells.
Inspector Clouseau's school of excellence still churning out Top academy grads I see, and they said it would be a waste of time and money!

Let's totally ignore the work done recently, and continues to be done to provide one of, if not the biggest section for those less fortunate(and their carers)in Europe, possibly the World, something you should be proud of the club you say you support for.

Just because the club isn't shouting it from the rooftops doesn't mean work isn't been done, and will continue to be done.
 

PaulRich

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The main issue for me is the roof lines. Anybody higher that the second tiers have an awful view. Feck WiFi, if you need that you shouldnt be in the stadium in the first place.
 

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I'm against the demolition of the ground because its OT and I have so many good, good memories there, but I think it could end up like Triggers broom if they just renovate the bits that need to be done.

Leg room is a joke, for that to be remedied the elevation of the stands needs to be changed, and given its all concrete it'd pretty much necessitate a knock down and rebuild of the stands as the rows are too narrow.

The concourses need to be made bigger, the ones in east stand have no room to stand and drink your drink with the queues and you can't take beer out on to the terraces.

The toilets are too small.

Far too many stairs if you're in the second or third tiers, its alright if you're young, but if youre a wheezy asthmatic middle aged man like me its a pain in the dick and breathing apparatus is needed by the time you get to your seat, its not unmanagable but it's 2020 for feck sake, I'm sure we can do better.

Other stuff like the roof or the aesthetics can be sorted with a renovation, but for me the main problems are more structural than visual.
 

GlastonSpur

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Its iconic and I much prefer the shape to the bland bowls that are now the norm such as the Emptyad and the Emirates for example. …
Such phrases - ditto "soulless bowls" - are just empty clichés trotted out by those who wish to justify having an old, rectangular stadium.

There is nothing intrinsically "bland" about a bowl-shape anymore than there is about a rectangular shape.

And references in other posts to a lack of "soul" are merely disguised references to newness (i.e. insufficient time for much history to have developed). By virtue of being mostly built on the same site as White Hart Lane, does Spurs new stadium have more "soul" than it otherwise would?

It's all very well talking about a stadium's history as a reason to stick with it, but the more time that passes, the longer that history becomes - and with it an even bigger alleged reason to stay - whilst at the same time the stadium becomes ever older and crumblier. When does the latter factor outweigh the former?

And when does the cumulative patching up and improving as best you can within the limitations of an old-fashioned design become more costly than building a new stadium from scratch?