Older Generations vs. Newer Generations

[KingEric7]

Probably been done before many times, but I've thought about this a lot recently, and am curious as to what people feel concerning the evolution of the game, how certain players would stand up today, etc.

I haven't had the time to sit down and watch full games and research in the way I'd prefer, but my feelings /suspicions at this point are as follows:

- The level of defensive performance has increased in a big way since the early/mid 90s.
- Defenders basically cannot touch the forward these days, which you could say benefits defenders and contributes to the above, but also should be taken into account when talking about older defensive greats.
- I feel it is probably more difficult in today's game given the stress of social media and defending all over the pitch to play expressively, and with authority.
- Beckenbauer and George Best with their technique were ahead of their time.
- There is a point (pre-60s) that really needs looking into, I suspect. I'm trying not to be disrespectful, but I feel like when you go as far back as Stanley Matthews for example, there are players who would really stick out in today's game.

Those are some of my thoughts, anyway. Like I say, I've not had the time to research in the way I'd prefer, so if people post compilations of great performances/players, I'll give them a watch.

 

[SaintMuppet]

Fitness wise modern players would destroy players even 20 years ago.

I remember an interview with Emily Hughes years ago where he was asked how the legendary Liverpool side would fare against the then dominant United side. His reply was ‘for 70 minutes they would not get the ball but in the last 20 they would destroy us’

I don’t think he was far off then and the same could be said now.

Skill is a different matter as it transcends time. A truly skillful player say a Maradona would still stand out today (especially in those tiny shorts). He would still be head and shoulders above his peers but speed and fitness wise he would be found lacking.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The comparison is player specific and cannot be extrapolated to a era/decade.

Players like Pele, Di Stefano, Cruyff etc would shine as well in modern era had they the benefits of other modern footballers.

Stanley Matthews whom you mention would be a prime example of a old school player who can fit in well in modern times.

 

[KingEric7]

The comparison is player specific and cannot be extrapolated to a era/decade.

Players like Pele, Di Stefano, Cruyff etc would shine as well in modern era had they the benefits of other modern footballers.

Stanley Matthews whom you mention would be a prime example of a old school player who can fit in well in modern times.

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

 

[Casanova85]

Professionalism, fitness and speed are now light-years away from pre-'80s football.

That's why Pele, Best and Cruyff made such an impact in 1958-74. Those three belong in 1986-2019.

 

[Powderfinger]

As long as older players had the benefits of modern nutrition and training techniques, they'd mainly adapt just fine.

I do think the biggest difference might be among central defenders. At lot more is asked from central defenders today in terms of both pace, because high lines are more common, and skill on the ball, because you have to deal with the high press yourself when in possession. Some iconic central defenders of the past that were mainly hard men in the heart of defense would be found out in today's game.

 

[Eriku]

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

Really? He looks good in that vid. Also take into account the pitch, the boots and the ball.

 

[golden_blunder]

Old timers wouldn’t survive the social media and lingard bantz

 

[golden_blunder]

Central defenders who can’t head a ball would be laughed out of town in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Probably been done before many times, but I've thought about this a lot recently, and am curious as to what people feel concerning the evolution of the game, how certain players would stand up today, etc.

I haven't had the time to sit down and watch full games and research in the way I'd prefer, but my feelings /suspicions at this point are as follows:

- The level of defensive performance has increased in a big way since the early/mid 90s.
- Defenders basically cannot touch the forward these days, which you could say benefits defenders and contributes to the above, but also should be taken into account when talking about older defensive greats.
- I feel it is probably more difficult in today's game given the stress of social media and defending all over the pitch to play expressively, and with authority.
- Beckenbauer and George Best with their technique were ahead of their time.
- There is a point (pre-60s) that really needs looking into, I suspect. I'm trying not to be disrespectful, but I feel like when you go as far back as Stanley Matthews for example, there are players who would really stick out in today's game.

Those are some of my thoughts, anyway. Like I say, I've not had the time to research in the way I'd prefer, so if people post compilations of great performances/players, I'll give them a watch.

I guess it all depends on what type of system or style they are played in, the position they are used in and their physical abilities (difficult to assess their understanding of the game and decisionmaking without reviewing hours of footage). Less physical but technical players like Di Stefano and Puskas would be dependent on the style of play and position --> Would struggle in 1v1s and with the improvement in physicality over the years but could perform well in a dominant ball team.
Players with the technical and physical ability, like Eusebio, would fit right in. And I think that Eusebio might be the player among the former greats that would suit today's game best regardless of system he played in.

For defenders, i think many of the former great ones would be able to perform well if played in a central role. Djalma Santos would be able to perform well as a fullback given that he was a physical monster, while Marzolini would have had to be moved in centrally or play in a possession-based system to be able to perform as a fullback. Central defenders without some mobility or technical ability would really struggle, unless played in a "park the bus" system. The technical ones would perform well in a possession-based system.

 

[Red_toad]

Fitness wise modern players would destroy players even 20 years ago.

I remember an interview with Emily Hughes years ago where he was asked how the legendary Liverpool side would fare against the then dominant United side. His reply was ‘for 70 minutes they would not get the ball but in the last 20 they would destroy us’

I don’t think he was far off then and the same could be said now.

Skill is a different matter as it transcends time. A truly skillful player say a Maradona would still stand out today (especially in those tiny shorts). He would still be head and shoulders above his peers but speed and fitness wise he would be found lacking.

That's a very generalised quote, there are player in the Premier League now who smoke and drink, there were players 20 years ago who were consummate professionals. There are plenty of players from the 80's who'd thrive in modern day football. Sorry to burst your bubble, but modern isn't always better.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I think it's impossible to really measure. A modern team in it's modern state would completely obliterate any team from the distant past. Not because they're more talented, but because football has developed. Training, health, nutrition, hell even the shoes, everything is now better, because of the money that's involved. Johan Cruijff would be an average player if he was transported to todays game with the way he trained and even smoked a fag (hah, I'm so British) at half time. Give him today's facilities though and he'd still be a genius.

The complete over the top saturation in coverage of the game is a bit irksome at times though. There's only so many talk shows about football one can watch without going absolutely insane.

 

[Nanook]

I think it was Michael Cox who said Spurs team today would beat the AC Milan 1990s side comfortably.

 

[KingEric7]

Really? He looks good in that vid. Also take into account the pitch, the boots and the ball.

His technique would look very, very out of place in today's game, in my opinion. In general, and definitely next to the likes of Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, etc. Definitely open to comments about boots, in regards to both performance and learning, but I don't see that as sufficient here. The ball...I'm open-minded again - I've never played with one.

 

[dumbo]

The Olds subsisted on cod liver oil and Quinine. New Gen are all THG and sweet bovine hemoglobin.

 

[Eriku]

His technique would look very, very out of place in today's game, in my opinion. In general, and definitely next to the likes of Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, etc. Definitely open to comments about boots, in regards to both performance and learning, but I don't see that as sufficient here. The ball...I'm open-minded again - I've never played with one.

Technique doesn’t look the flashiest, sure, but the balance and improvisation he shows, take this dude and let him play today and he’d be effective, as well as pick up new tricks. What he clearly shows is that he was a natural footballer, and I think those would stand out in any era.

Ever watched a full match with one of the old greats? Once I did I felt like they were just so much faster in the head, and more comfortable on the ball, that they’d be great players in any era. My two cents.

 

[Gio]

Hard to compare. The best evidence is what we've seen with our eyes, but it's not really like-for-like given the faster environment the game is played in today. Boots are half the weight, pitches are infinitely slicker and basically mud-free, balls are lighter and more responsive - all of that contributes hugely to improving the spectacle. And it's hard to disassociate that context when comparing players across eras.

As @powerfinger says, defenders who weren't adept at retaining the ball under pressure would struggle in today's game. Many of the hatchet men would obviously struggle without the free fouls they were allowed. It would be fair to claim that goalkeepers improved a lot from the 1970s onwards - I can only think of a small handful from before then who weren't error prone based on the available footage. Tactically many of the nippy #9s from the British game might have struggled to carve a niche for themselves in the current game.

But some of the physical and tactical advances are overplayed. There were plenty of super-fit teams in the 1970s and 1980s (Holland and Dynamo Kiev the most obvious examples). If anything many of the top club sides did too much cardiovascular / running-based training to develop their fitness over 90 minutes and not enough developing their power. There were plenty of top players who had supreme physical attributes in any era - Bican, Pele, Eusebio, Kubala, Shesternyev, Facchetti, Schulz, Rummenigge, Briegel, Vierchowod, Gullit - to name just a few from before the 1990s. Those guys would still be the quickest or strongest players on the park in any game today.

That's the beauty of football. That players of different shapes and sizes can excel and no better illustrated than by this generation's Messi and Xavi, both arguably the greatest of all time in their respective roles, despite their obvious athletic limitations. We are not yet in a position where we have teams comprised of 11 guys who can cover 100m in 10.0s while boasting world-class technical and mental abilities.

 

[Welby5]

Old timers wouldn’t survive the social media and lingard bantz

And todays players wouldn't survive a few nights out with Alan Hudson and Peter Osgood.

 

[11101]

The game is much more about team cohesion and tactics now over any individual. Modern teams would destroy older generations but the individual talents in those teams were greater, or at least allowed to express themselves more.

 

[LVGWay]

It was pub league standard before the mid 90’s. Well it was literally pub league standard. Pre and post match meals in 80’s and before was drinking sessions ffs Fergie and Wenger cut this bullshit out from United and Arsenal

 

[KingEric7]

Technique doesn’t look the flashiest, sure, but the balance and improvisation he shows, take this dude and let him play today and he’d be effective, as well as pick up new tricks. What he clearly shows is that he was a natural footballer, and I think those would stand out in any era.

Ever watched a full match with one of the old greats? Once I did I felt like they were just so much faster in the head, and more comfortable on the ball, that they’d be great players in any era. My two cents.

I haven't watched a full match from that era, but am open to doing so. I dunno, Eriku... the thread wasn't created in order to bash Stanley Matthews and that generation, but there is just a lot wrong with that dribbling technique, fluidity, demeanor, authority, etc, in my opinion. It's not lacking authority within that context, but authority and composure are things I think that would take a serious hit as soon as you take an older player and put him in today's game. A key thing to consider is what greater defensive pressing does to the mindset and composure of an attacking player: you are a lot more likely to worry about losing the ball, to lose your control over your technique, to lose awareness of what's around you, etc.

By authority, I think what I mean is your general presence and power over the people around you when playing - that presence that, for example, makes a defender back off and know that they can't just lunge in. If you're confident enough in your technique, you're probably more likely to have that presence (though not necessarily). Without it, a defender will smell blood and know there's less risk. Another thing I think decreases that authority and confidence is worry about failure/criticism, which is why I mentioned social media (which I should've written as part of a broader point about the atmosphere in society/football today - very damaging, in my opinion).

 

[caid]

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

You really shouldn't have reservations. I've played with the kind of footballs they were using in the 70's, it felt like kicking a rock. Maybe it was because it was about 20 years old at that point but really the footballs they have now feel pretty different to what i was using as a kid 20 years ago, so it feels true. The pitch and a thousand other things would have been very different too

 

[Welby5]

How would the likes of Messi & co have coped playing on bumpy, muddy, snow covered pitches. Heavier boots and balls. Week in wek out, defenders and midfield hardmen getting away with kicking lumps out of players.

 

[RochaRoja]

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

Have you ever seen a video of the “great” Bert Trautmann? The guy was a total clown.

 

[André Dominguez]

I would say that the modern defensive principles are born with Arrigo Sachi at late 70's, and they actually were quite sharp at the end of the 80's

https://tacticalpedia.com/2016/09/a...es-develop-coordination-back-4-midfield-line/

This was the beginning of the zonal marking principals and defensive line definitions. This drills are still quite contemporary, despite being "invented" 40 years ago.

The defense would keep his shape and would drift depending the zone where the ball was. This principles are pretty much used by Guardiola / Klopp / any other competent manager when applying collective pressing.

 

[golden_blunder]

And todays players wouldn't survive a few nights out with Alan Hudson and Peter Osgood.

True

 

[golden_blunder]

Have you ever seen a video of the “great” Bert Trautmann? The guy was a total clown.

You try saving a medicine ball hurtling towards you with a broken neck

 

[KingEric7]

You really shouldn't have reservations. I've played with the kind of footballs they were using in the 70's, it felt like kicking a rock. Maybe it was because it was about 20 years old at that point but really the footballs they have now feel pretty different to what i was using as a kid 20 years ago, so it feels true. The pitch and a thousand other things would have been very different too

Haven't played with one, like I say, and would love to hear more about people's experiences with older footballs. Would also like to know if there was a sizable increase in quality of the actual football between the peaks of Matthews and Beckenbauer/Best, as the latter two seem visibly more talented to me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

Matthews was probably on of the fittest players of his era. Didn't smoke, drink and paid exceptionally high attention to his nutrition.

And as other have pointed out, the old balls were clunky and heavy and not really waterproof. Only post WW2, modernisation of balls began. So the aerodynamics of the ball and simple flexibility in dribbling were far far worse compared to modern counterparts. Imagine playing a heavy leather partly waterproof balls in a mud field. No wonder dribbling/nimbleness is different from what we see now.

I have no doubt that if Matthews was a modern era player, he'd still be one of the greatest wingers ever.

 

[fps]

There's a lot of romanticising about older players and time, but one key point regardless of nutrition, coaching and other factors is the talent pool was significantly smaller then, so even at the top level you had top players running at the equivalent of conference defenders. A lot of the top guys would find short thrift playing against the depth of athletic ability around now, as we saw with United last season if you can't run as much as the oppo/ match their fitness you ultimately don't get to strut your stuff.

 

[Adam-Utd]

If George Best had a strict fitness regime, wasn't allowed to binge drink and trained with modern tools and science?

My god.

People like Bobby Charlton could EASILY play in this era.

 

[KingEric7]

Matthews was probably on of the fittest players of his era. Didn't smoke, drink and paid exceptionally high attention to his nutrition.

And as other have pointed out, the old balls were clunky and heavy and not really waterproof. Only post WW2, modernisation of balls began. So the aerodynamics of the ball and simple flexibility in dribbling were far far worse compared to modern counterparts. Imagine playing a heavy leather partly waterproof balls in a mud field. No wonder dribbling/nimbleness is different from what we see now.

I have no doubt that if Matthews was a modern era player, he'd still be one of the greatest wingers ever.

Very open again when it comes to the condition of pitches, but so far I've not noticed a sufficient increase in technique when the pitch has been better in videos I've been watching.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I know that there are people here would've watched a lot of old footage of these players, so if there are compilations/performances, I'll watch them. I have some pretty serious reservations about Matthews given the technique in this video, to be honest:

Perhaps Sir Tom Finney would be more to your liking.



Not one of his best performances as he wasn't fully fit and injured but the quality (not the footage ) is apparent.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Very open again when it comes to the condition of pitches, but so far I've not noticed a sufficient increase in technique when the pitch has been better in videos I've been watching.

As people say, it's a combination of factors and just one one dominant influence.

Anyway, looks like your mind is already made up.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

If you took a good team from today and made them play a good team from the 70s and made the game be played under 70s rules and regulations I think it'd be very interesting. The physicality of the contact elements of the support would seriously hamper some of today's players and a lot of keepers and centre halves would be in trouble. Of course, the fitness of modern players would be a factor too. Kyle Walker, for instance, is an absolute unit and could likely handle himself but there's plenty who would struggle. Our Dave would be in trouble with the physicality of 70s centre forwards I reckon. Corners would be absolute carnage.

If played under modern rules, and the 70s players had been transported by TARDIS (in short, hadn't had the advantages of modern training and conditions), and we played under current rules, the modern team would win pretty comfortably even against, let's say, Crujff's Dutch team I imagine.

 

[fps]

If you took a good team from today and made them play a good team from the 70s and made the game be played under 70s rules and regulations I think it'd be very interesting. The physicality of the contact elements of the support would seriously hamper some of today's players and a lot of keepers and centre halves would be in trouble. Of course, the fitness of modern players would be a factor too. Kyle Walker, for instance, is an absolute unit and could likely handle himself but there's plenty who would struggle. Our Dave would be in trouble with the physicality of 70s centre forwards I reckon. Corners would be absolute carnage.

If played under modern rules, and the 70s players had been transported by TARDIS (in short, hadn't had the advantages of modern training and conditions), and we played under current rules, the modern team would win pretty comfortably even against, let's say, Crujff's Dutch team I imagine.

Yes it's perhaps more interesting to compare and suggest which players' STYLES would work, either players from now back in the 50s or 70s, and players from back then, now. Probably a lot of very talented players from 40 years ago who didn't have much of an impact then but whose styles would have fitted in better in today's game. Kyle Walker's a good example of someone who could work in any era.

In the 40s/50s, winger James Milner would probably have been in the Matthews category

 

[Matt007a]

The biggest difference is the fitness I guess. Pele stood out like a sore thumb in his day because he was a supreme athlete as well as a gifted footballer. There were a lot less players on his physical level, where as now there would be several. Saying that if you gave him access to the training modern players have, he'd probably be even better.

A faster, stronger, fitter Maradona would run absolute rings around todays players because beyond that he was still one of the most technically gifted players of all time. He'd be on the Messi/Ronaldo level for sure.

 

[harms]

Fitness wise modern players would destroy players even 20 years ago.

I remember an interview with Emily Hughes years ago where he was asked how the legendary Liverpool side would fare against the then dominant United side. His reply was ‘for 70 minutes they would not get the ball but in the last 20 they would destroy us’

I think the tactical aspect of the game is the one that changed the most. Players like Maldini or Giggs that played for 2 decades had no problem with adapting to the modern game even at the very old age. If you're saying that Mata or Dybala are in a better shape than Matthäus was in the 90's or Tigana in the 80's or Cruyff in the 70's, you're kidding yourself. You should watch the games of 74' Netherlands or 70/80's Dynamo Kiev if you're thinking that the players from that era aren't capable of keeping up with the pace of modern football.

The difference in fitness won't be as evident in one game, but it'll definitely play a huge part over the course of the season. And I have no doubt that the individuals from the 60's and so on will do brilliant in modern game after a short period of acclimatisation.

A modern top team would probably beat a top team from the past — first and foremost because of the tactics. Although I'm sure that, say, Sacchi's AC Milan with van Basten, Gullit, Baresi, Rijkaard and Maldini would be capable of winning in every encounter.

 

[harms]

As always, I have to post this video for those who think that fitness would be the biggest difference.

 

[harms]

Have you ever seen a video of the “great” Bert Trautmann? The guy was a total clown.

He wasn't, but the goalkeeper role is the one role that improved most notably over the decades because of the coaching techniques and tactics. You only have a few keepers that looked modern in the 60's — like Yashin or Beara. Great reaction, positioning, they weren't afraid to step up and act as a sweeper if needed.