Ole: “maybe something has to give”

Andersonson

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Can't play Ronaldo, Pogba and Fernandes. There is no system that can accomodate all 3, regardless of manager. I would imagine that's what he's referring to.
Agreed.
 

Jeppers7

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We don't need a manager who is just figuring this out after 3 years. He should have been ahead of these issues. Apparently he and his shit team (Phelan, Carrick & McKenna) are seemingly getting aware of these problems slower than the fanbase are.

It's shocking.

I think the ultimate litmus test is just whether there's any demand for Ole and the lucky shites Phelan Carrick McKenna outside of MUFC. I can't imagine a top club eager to snap any of them up. We are a charity. A business feeding nostalgia to its fans.
This is a huge problem. Wtf Is that comment that they spent the international break looking at issues….then a) did nothing about them yesterday and b) why are you reacting now to the same problems we’ve had for years
 

sparx99

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You should be able to see the patterns of play and style we are trying to play. If it ends up not successful then better players come in and you hope that gets you over the line.

You can see this at teams like Brighton or back in the day when Swansea played Barcelona-lite style possession football. They had/have a clear style of play and it’s a lack of overall quality that lets them down.

You don’t watch us and see in any way what we are trying to do. We don’t keep the ball well. We play fairly direct (not long ball but we attempt killer passes often). We play a painfully slow tempo. In fact we lack intensity in both attack and defence.

I said this in the match day thread but two-touch and pass and move would make a significant improvement to this side and that’s damning of the coaching.

Another pattern we’ve seen repeatedly is our improvement after going behind in games. We up our tempo and start to actually run. Ole even joked about having to start 1-0 down recently.

This to me is a symptom of the way we are playing. We set out to control games and often have the first 15-20mins of decent possession and we feel a bit dangerous but by and large the opposition prevent any big chances. As the opposition get comfortable they realise we aren’t really hurting them and they start to commit players on the break. We then start to concede worrying chances to the opposition and panic. All sense of control then falls apart and we often end up conceding or giving up big chances and De Gea bailing us out.

It’s almost like in trying to control the game it’s making us cautious. Cautious in attack and cautious in defence. We don’t commit to anything properly and end up just woefully mediocre.

Compare this to when we go a goal down and all of a sudden we can often be knocking on the door and find ways to score goals. We start to run and press the opposition high up the field.
 

justsomebloke

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You should be able to see the patterns of play and style we are trying to play. If it ends up not successful then better players come in and you hope that gets you over the line.

You can see this at teams like Brighton or back in the day when Swansea played Barcelona-lite style possession football. They had/have a clear style of play and it’s a lack of overall quality that lets them down.

You don’t watch us and see in any way what we are trying to do. We don’t keep the ball well. We play fairly direct (not long ball but we attempt killer passes often). We play a painfully slow tempo. In fact we lack intensity in both attack and defence.

I said this in the match day thread but two-touch and pass and move would make a significant improvement to this side and that’s damning of the coaching.

Another pattern we’ve seen repeatedly is our improvement after going behind in games. We up our tempo and start to actually run. Ole even joked about having to start 1-0 down recently.

This to me is a symptom of the way we are playing. We set out to control games and often have the first 15-20mins of decent possession and we feel a bit dangerous but by and large the opposition prevent any big chances. As the opposition get comfortable they realise we aren’t really hurting them and they start to commit players on the break. We then start to concede worrying chances to the opposition and panic. All sense of control then falls apart and we often end up conceding or giving up big chances and De Gea bailing us out.

It’s almost like in trying to control the game it’s making us cautious. Cautious in attack and cautious in defence. We don’t commit to anything properly and end up just woefully mediocre.

Compare this to when we go a goal down and all of a sudden we can often be knocking on the door and find ways to score goals. We start to run and press the opposition high up the field.
Thanks for at least trying to focus on what are the issues on the pitch and how they could be solved, in contrast with most, who sees a problem and evidently can't think of something more interesting or useful to say about it than "sack the manager".

But I think what you write would have been a better description of our limitations last season than it is now. At least against Villarreal and yesterday, we've been much worse than this. To the point where we have really not been a functioning team in almost any aspect of the game. Yesterday, we pretty much collapsed defensively in the final phase of the game. Eye test meets stats - Leicesters xG spiked dramatically in the final half of the second half, and we ended up with 22 shots (11 on goal) against us - generally the kind of figures you see when bottom teams get steamrolled by top teams. And Leicester weren't even all that good.

There was throughout the game an almost complete lack of timing, coherence, intensity, structure, rhytm. I thought our basic game looked a lot better against Everton, though we were still not producing very much offensively and proved vulnerable on the break again.
 

JB7

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First XI
Rashford--Ronaldo
Bruno
Shaw--------------Pogba---------Matic--------------Lingard
Varane--------Maguire----McTominay
DDG

Second XI
Cavani--Greenwood
Sancho
Telles--------------VDB---------Fred--------------Dalot
Bailly-----Lindelof----(AWB)
Henderson
Feck it. We need to try something radical. Even though we don't really have enough defenders to pull it off.
Something radical such as dropping our best player by a country mile so far this season and picking a midfield pairing that has shown across several seasons that they do not work?
 

spiriticon

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If he hasn't a clue what to change, just go back to a fecking 4-4-2 classic with wide wingers or something outrageous like that. He must know how to implement that at the very least.

Try. Something. Different.
 

Revaulx

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Lingard is running down his deal, Pogba is running down his deal. Personally I’d rather neither was getting game time as neither are consistently good enough to play whilst waiting to move.
Bah! If we only started players who are “consistently good enough” we’d not be able to start anyone :lol:
 

tomaldinho1

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Bah! If we only started players who are “consistently good enough” we’d not be able to start anyone :lol:
Why are you ignoring the other 50% of the post.

If a player is running down a deal/waiting to leave AND isn’t consistently good enough (i.e. Ronaldo pre Real) why play them?
 

Counterfactual

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Does Ole's remark mean he knows what he wants to change and this result now enables him to do it? It will be interesting to see what he does because it needs to be quite significant.
 

::sonny::

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After the first game against soton and confirmed against wolves I understood that Ole era was finished
 

SAFMUTD

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And the gift is what you get by givin' more than you receive. Give away the position to someone else, appoint Ole as one of them transfer comittee. Win win.
I'm surprised many here claim we should keep Ole as a sporting director or transfer committee or whatever.

Did he unearthed gems or something? I think every signed player apart from James, Amad and Pellestri were known and exposed to everyone. We don't need a sporting director to spot the Maguires, Wan Bissakas, Fernandes, Cristianos and Sanchos.

That's like spotting Mbappe and saying great work scouting team.
 

tenpoless

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I'm surprised many here claim we should keep Ole as a sporting director or transfer committee or whatever.

Did he unearthed gems or something? I think every signed player apart from James, Amad and Pellestri were known and exposed to everyone. We don't need a sporting director to spot the Maguires, Wan Bissakas, Fernandes, Cristianos and Sanchos.

That's like spotting Mbappe and saying great work scouting team.
It's just to keep him busy so we can move on and hire the other manager. Makes him feel like he's being promoted.
 

passing-wind

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The problem with United is that we believe that every solution lies in the transfer market and that's how we easily waste millions. Last season we had Greenwood on 15 goals and what did we do? Sign another young forward and compounded that by signing an undroppable legend who is a shadow of his former self.

We'd absolutely need a DM to replace Matic but why not try Laird at RB, Elanga as a rotation forward or Garner as the box to box CM before spending millions again. This is why we have to bring in a proper coach not someone with a glittering CV who won't be willing to fuse good signings with the youth.

It's unsustainable t say the least, Mourinho came in and blew £300m after LVG's £200m and Ole has just gone through £400m and he will be telling us he still needs backing. That's nonsense and has to be stopped but you can only stop it by appointing a proper coach.
Good point we saw Lampard underperform with a Chelsea squad that Tuchel won the champions League with. I believe this transition would be no different to getting rid of Ole with the right coach replacing him.
 

bosnian_red

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Can't play Ronaldo, Pogba and Fernandes. There is no system that can accomodate all 3, regardless of manager. I would imagine that's what he's referring to.
Ronaldo has nothing to do with it tbh. It's Bruno and pogba. They don't work together against any half decent team.
 

jem

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If it was last season, it'd be McFred and James on the RW against Liverpool. I have no doubt it'll still be McFred next weekend, but who plays the James role? A forward line of Rashford (nailed on due to his threat on the counter), Ronaldo (nailed on because he's Ronaldo), and Greenwood (likely nailed on because he's been our best attacking threat lately) doesn't offer much in the way of helping out defensively, which is what I imagine Ole looking for given how porous we were yesterday.
 

Ralph1386

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I just think 'something has to give' means he will start setting us up super defensively, possibly even with a back five. Meaning one of the attacking players will be benched.
 

Irwin99

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Back to McFred, forwards that can press and counter attack is what he probably meant. Very basic and a bit disheartening but it would be interesting if he went with that vs Liverpool and benched Ronaldo, Sancho etc.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
I just think 'something has to give' means he will start setting us up super defensively, possibly even with a back five. Meaning one of the attacking players will be benched.
Exactly this.

It’s just a preemptive comment in regard to how defensively he’ll set up against the top teams Utd are playing soon.

And he’s quite right to do so - he can’t compete with other elite managers in regards to attacking possession football so it’s a lot wiser to approach the game like a small club would and try and nick a result.

That’s his level as a manager, and he’s actually quite good at doing it!

Hence the cycle of *almost* getting sacked against teams he should be beating and then saving his job with a counter-attacking result against a big club.

He’ll do better against Liverpool, Spurs, City, Chelsea than he has against Villa, Everton, Leicester etc - mark my words.
 

devilish

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The problem with United is that we believe that every solution lies in the transfer market and that's how we easily waste millions. Last season we had Greenwood on 15 goals and what did we do? Sign another young forward and compounded that by signing an undroppable legend who is a shadow of his former self.

We'd absolutely need a DM to replace Matic but why not try Laird at RB, Elanga as a rotation forward or Garner as the box to box CM before spending millions again. This is why we have to bring in a proper coach not someone with a glittering CV who won't be willing to fuse good signings with the youth.

It's unsustainable t say the least, Mourinho came in and blew £300m after LVG's £200m and Ole has just gone through £400m and he will be telling us he still needs backing. That's nonsense and has to be stopped but you can only stop it by appointing a proper coach.
In my opinion, the biggest issue with United since SAF retired is that our managers were/are more concerned about their ideology and idea then what matters the most ie balance. Balance is what makes a team successful. Which is why a top manager like SAF who had worked with possibly some of the finest CM of his era, ended up with Cleverley in his first team. The guy was a donkey but he provided much needed leg work for an ageing Carrick and Scholes bringing balance in the team.

That something Moyes/LVG/Mou/Ole failed in. It was always job for their boys/the boys, people they fancy or guys who understand their philosophy first. Take Ole for example. He spent 80m on Maguire despite the fact that we already had a very slow CB in Lindelof. What was the result of that? Matic-Maguire-Lindelof simply couldn't play together which meant that we needed to fork more money for Varane. The same on the flanks. Ole simply couldn't live with Greenwood, Pellistri, Jesse, Elanga and Diallo as RW. He had to spend 70m on Sancho and he also had to give a contract to Mata because, well, matey and all. Guess what? Money don't grow on trees and there's a limit to how much money a club can spend.
 

United Hobbit

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I just think 'something has to give' means he will start setting us up super defensively, possibly even with a back five. Meaning one of the attacking players will be benched.
Urgh I can see him doing that, especially in the big games, we are already insipid enough, let's become even more insipid

There have been so many recurring issues, the slow start to games is coming up time and time again, as is clinging on desperately in the last 20 minutes (and more often than not conceding). He is the manager, yet despite the frequency of these issues, he has not fixed them. It is his job to fix them, which leaves me thinking he doesn't know how to. Not good enough.

The VDB problem is weird, he may help us if he has a consistent run of games, but no he sits on the bench all game bar the odd 5 or 10 minute trot out. At least TRY using him. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but he won't know unless he TRIES. But he won't because his favourites must play.... he's not going to show anything outstanding yet, because he has so little time to do anything!

It said everything that Brentford looked better drilled than us and you could actually see a clear plan when they played Liverpool. A game they very nearly won. They didn't fear Liverpool, they took the game to them. Too often under Ole we are acting like the plucky small team, which is completely unacceptable, especially with the group of players we currently have. When did we last bully a team and completely dominate a game?

Teams roll over for Liverpool and City, they don't for us as he's given us a small club mentality. Where are those days of teams conceding defeat before them game even starts? We are fast becoming a mockery, and he's taking us backwards.

Time for him to go, thanks for the memories as a player but....

Of course benching big ego players, because he doesn't know how to set up the team to incorporate them correctly could add to his losing the dressing room....
 
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Ralph1386

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Exactly this.

It’s just a preemptive comment in regard to how defensively he’ll set up against the top teams Utd are playing soon.

And he’s quite right to do so - he can’t compete with other elite managers in regards to attacking possession football so it’s a lot wiser to approach the game like a small club would and try and nick a result.

That’s his level as a manager, and he’s actually quite good at doing it!

Hence the cycle of *almost* getting sacked against teams he should be beating and then saving his job with a counter-attacking result against a big club.

He’ll do better against Liverpool, Spurs, City, Chelsea than he has against Villa, Everton, Leicester etc - mark my words.
You could be right but the only difference this time is that he's starting to lose the dressing room. That wasn't the case the last times he was about to lose his job. Back then the players were still clearly behind him. Now I don't think all of them believe in him anymore.
 

Dirty Schwein

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New manager is going to need to be backed in the transfer market. Will be interested to see if the Glazers will do it.
Not necessarily. We have a good team. Just need the right manager.

Look at Chelsea. Replaced fat Frank with Tuchel. No signings. Got top 4, FA Cup final and won UCL.
 

antohan

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Can't play Ronaldo, Pogba and Fernandes. There is no system that can accomodate all 3, regardless of manager. I would imagine that's what he's referring to.
The question then is why it takes until late October to see the bleeding obvious.
 

antohan

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Those 2 have been a problem way before Ronaldo.
The elegant solution was playing Pogba as a LF. That makes absolutely no sense now with Sancho in and Rashford back so we went back to trying to fit Pogba in a midfield pairing. It doesn't work, it didn't work before Bruno either.
 

Godfather

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Can't play Ronaldo, Pogba and Fernandes. There is no system that can accomodate all 3, regardless of manager. I would imagine that's what he's referring to.
Have to agree. Unless you drill some positional sense into them. Especially Bruno.
 

arthurka

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After the first game against soton and confirmed against wolves I understood that Ole era was finished
It was finished when he just the EL final. Up to that game he stopped playing his best team, because we wanted to be fit for the final. That went well, we haven't played good football for a long time and have no style or identity under Ole. For me he needs to be removed asap.
 

JB7

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I just think 'something has to give' means he will start setting us up super defensively, possibly even with a back five. Meaning one of the attacking players will be benched.
That is the only way they can play if he insists on proceeding with Dave in goal unfortunately. It doesn't matter who the defenders are, if he has decided DDG is the #1 for the foreseeable then a deep defensive line is the only way to play. They'll still concede regularly from set plays though.
 

Lentwood

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Ole is falling into the Sven trap of just throwing his best XI footballers onto the pitch and hoping it will somehow work.

Some of our matches this season have been about as bad tactically as I think I have seen from any team ever