Ole and his tactic choices

[Strelok]

I'm a big Ole supporter but:

1. Matic, Maguire, Pogba are slow af. Why he keep playing a high defensive line and demanding our FB to go very high up? Especially considering AWB is crap going forward.

2. Pogba has been dogshit recently. Why keep playing him? He has VDB, Fred, McT all fit.

3. It's clear af this Pogba Matic won't ever work. Both are slow, can't press, can't chase. We have literally no midfield recently. Why no change?

4. Everyone and their dog know how a Jose team would play. Why again and again he play dead straight into their plan?

5. We over overload the wings and the area before the penalty box. Sometime I see Bruno, Matic, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, even Maguire on the left. Basically 5 yards within each other. But there's like only Mason in the penalty box. Then the ball was passed back to Pogba then AWB. Then nothing happened. What's purpose of this?

I know Ole hasn't been backed. I'm on that train too but I don't think he'd need new signings to play some decent football. Which has not been the case over the last three matches.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I'm a big Ole supporter but:

1. Matic, Maguire, Pogba are slow af. Why he keep playing a high defensive line and demanding our FB to go very high up? Especially considering AWB is crap going forward.

2. Pogba has been dogshit recently. Why keep playing him? He has VDB, Fred, McT all fit.

3. It's clear af this Pogba Matic won't ever work. Both are slow, can't press, can't chase. We have literally no midfield recently. Why no change?

4. Everyone and their dog know how a Jose team would play. Why again and again he play dead straight into their plan?

5. We over overload the wings and the area before the penalty box. Sometime I see Bruno, Matic, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, even Maguire on the left. Basically 5 yards within each other. But there's like only Mason in the penalty box. Then the ball was passed back to Pogba then AWB. Then nothing happened. What's purpose of this?

I know Ole hasn't been backed. I'm on that train too but I don't think he'd need new signings to play some decent football. Which has not been the case over the last three matches.

Your 5th point is the one that sticks out to me the most and drives me crazy. I am constantly yelling at my TV to get more players in the box. It's like we think we win the game by having the most possession around the 18 without touching it. We also have this tendency to try and pass the ball into the net. We need early delivery from our FB's and more players in the 18. And FFS, have a shot from outside the 18. I know people were on Bruno for shooting from distance a lot when he first arrived, but when you start taking those shots, eventually the defenders will start to close that down and it will open up more space in the 18...

 

[SambaBoy]

The choice not to bring in a DM this summer is going to kill us this season.

Matic when he's in form shows how important this position is to the style of football we want to play, controlling but hitting teams on the break. After the restart, we were fantastic at this and somewhat solid at the back.

The problem is, Matic has been inconsistent ever since he's joined us, he will have 7-8 great performances followed by becoming fatigued and overplayed and throwing in some horrible performances. At his best, he gives the players further forward a base to play and can play under the press. Matic isn't some supremely talented player which is what the above makes him out to be, it's just the role he plays and he's the only one in the squad who can do that. Fred and McTominay are decent player in some aspects but neither are 6. Neither can get the ball from the CB's or make us move 20-30 yards up the pitch. Both are too erratic on the ball and easy to press, they give the ball away too often and we get killed on the transition. It's clear Pogba can't be played as 6.

 

[Snow]

Your 5th point is the one that sticks out to me the most and drives me crazy. I am constantly yelling at my TV to get more players in the box. It's like we think we win the game by having the most possession around the 18 without touching it. We also have this tendency to try and pass the ball into the net. We need early delivery from our FB's and more players in the 18. And FFS, have a shot from outside the 18. I know people were on Bruno for shooting from distance a lot when he first arrived, but when you start taking those shots, eventually the defenders will start to close that down and it will open up more space in the 18...

This is exactly why he bought Bruno and VDB and why Cavani would be a good signing (assuming good fitness). First half the last season we had no one that did this. Greenwood wasn't playing yet. Rashford is franky terrible off the ball, by far his biggest weakness is his movement off the ball. He just doesn't have the instinct for goals that we need. That's ok if there are other players that pull their attacking weight but that wasn't the case last season. At the moment that's not the focus. We've been creating chances for the most part with 11 men. Problem is defense.

 

[el3mel]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

So far he has only used 5 new players and 1 on loan. I don’t know who the other two are but if you are going to count Cavani and Telles then we might should just wait next month to judge. Cavani available for 8 months free agent too and we waited until the last of the week to sign him.

 

[kiristao]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

Spot on. I have been saying the exact same thing. At one point, Ole needs to look at himself. Compare what we have on paper to most teams in the EPL, and man for man, we have a better starting 11 and squad. Yet there is absolutely no organisation and that is down to the manager and his coaching staff.

 

[Eli Zee]

Your 5th point is the one that sticks out to me the most and drives me crazy. I am constantly yelling at my TV to get more players in the box. It's like we think we win the game by having the most possession around the 18 without touching it. We also have this tendency to try and pass the ball into the net. We need early delivery from our FB's and more players in the 18. And FFS, have a shot from outside the 18. I know people were on Bruno for shooting from distance a lot when he first arrived, but when you start taking those shots, eventually the defenders will start to close that down and it will open up more space in the 18...

That's what I noticed too. We always have a lot of players outside the box but no one inside. I was enjoyng Greenwood taking shots from outside the box. I saw him take a couple before I turned the game off.

 

[thepolice123]

Extremely poor tactics and poor coaching. We have no idea what to do with the ball. Zero movements, no discernible passing patterns and no idea how to counter-press.

We need a video of that Son 1 v 1 chance in the first half where he took a heavy touch and lost the ball. The build up to the counter was comical at best. We literally passed ourselves to death there. Kept passing around, ran out of options and committed all our defenders in their own half. The moment we inevitable lost the ball, they just hit a simple long ball for Son to chase. The only player we had covering was incidentally our slowest too.

@GifLord

 

[SouthPredators4]

To me, his biggest failing as a manager is his inability to react.

1) When its obvious that Pogba n Matic is alway leaving our defence vulerable to strong teams with runners, why does he persist to play the pairing? Fred was arguably our best player during Pogba absence and was then dropped. Never had a chance despite Pogba's dogshit form. 2 defensively naive midfielder is a suicide mission.

2) After the red when we were under tremendous pressure, he didnt react. Any manager worth his salt would tighten up, survive to HT then reorg. He did nothing and looked completely lost.

3) same shit tactics regardless of opponents. Have some guts to drop big names if necessary.

Incredibly disappointment he has been. I had my doubts if he had the personality to manage a club of our stature and its becoming obvious now.

 

[Sky1981]

I feel confused as well why we're playing high press.

Our counter attacking football works best when we draw opposition to attack us, leaving spaces to exploit with our pacey front lines. Playing high press not only exposes us defensively but nullifies us attacking wise as our best tools to counter is pace and directness.

 

[AbusementPark]

New manager please, he has good runs of games to boost everyone's confidence and then the wheels fall off spectacularly. Same happened when he joined the club, had a brilliant start and then after the PSG game it went downhill. Same as last season, ended it well but he insisted on starting the same 11 for every game left and it cost him in the Europa league. So far the start to this season is crazy for all teams but the manner in which we have been beaten is alarming.

 

[meamth]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

He is backed for 2 windows and that's it.

You failed to notice that we achieved our target last season for UCL.

The main gripes is not about the past, it's about now.

Ole has main targets, but what we're getting is backyard bargains after a decent season.

 

[kouroux]

He is backed for 2 windows and that's it.

You failed to notice that we achieved our target last season for UCL.

The main gripes is not about the past, it's about now.

Ole has main targets, but what we're getting is backyard bargains after a decent season.

Why are we playing so badly then if we're a CL team level ?

 

[Zlatans Knee]

In theory depending on signings today we could start the next league game with 9 different players on the pitch. Henderson, Williams, Mengi, Tuanzebe (if fit), Telles, Fred, McT, VDB, Dembele, Cavani, Rashford.
I still think that midfield is still not brilliant but a lot less likely to be overrun by the opposition.
I don’t think the players that started v Spurs deserve to start the next match so it will be interesting to see what Ole does.

 

[Asger]

Spot on. I have been saying the exact same thing. At one point, Ole needs to look at himself. Compare what we have on paper to most teams in the EPL, and man for man, we have a better starting 11 and squad. Yet there is absolutely no organisation and that is down to the manager and his coaching staff.

Better than when? Maguire is no upgrade to Smalling, Valencia I would pick over AWB, so basically its just Bruno. Our squad is a mess and it needs about 10 better players to the squad if that wants to fight for titles in the future. I'm tired of those "talented" young players we have (Rashford and Martial), would struggle to start for most if not all top teams.

 

[meamth]

Why are we playing so badly then if we're a CL team level ?

Pre season determines the morale going into the new season.

We have good players, but our preseason sucking so much it affected the players.

G.Nev pointed out that the players can be affected by lack of preparations going into the new season can affect the morale for the whole season.

We need some morale boosters, that's all on Ed.

 

[kouroux]

Pre season determines the morale going into the new season.

We have good players, but our preseason sucking so much it affected the players.

G.Nev pointed out that the players can be affected by lack of preparations going into the new season can affect the morale for the whole season.

We need some morale boosters, that's all on Ed.

That's mostly on Ole and his coaching staff I'd say. If the morale is low on a day we're facing Mourinho then the coaching staff needs to piss off. Woodward has his share of blame too without a doubt but Ole is a very bad manager and motivator.

 

[sparx99]

It’s been forgotten that our good run of form last season after Bruno signed was with Fred, McTominay and Matic rotating in midfield.

Pogba played ok post lockdown but only really for 2-3 games before we struggled again. I was excited for Pogba and Bruno in the same team but it’s becoming clearer every game that Pogba isn’t bringing additional creativity or attacking impetus while also not bringing the tenacity and work rate that McTominay or Fred does.

Time for a change.

 

[jackal&hyde]

It wasn't the tactics last game. We actually started well until 2 major errors took the wind from our sails and a 3ed error plus a stupid moment from Martial caused a rout.

The poor pre season seems to have an enormous effect on defenders both in terms of individual sharpness and organization; we are not alone in this.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Shoehorning players and not dropping them regardless of their performances like Pogba.

Just drop him and see if it works? Maybe save the club from offering another fat paycheck?

 

[Strelok]

To me, his biggest failing as a manager is his inability to react.

1) When its obvious that Pogba n Matic is alway leaving our defence vulerable to strong teams with runners, why does he persist to play the pairing? Fred was arguably our best player during Pogba absence and was then dropped. Never had a chance despite Pogba's dogshit form. 2 defensively naive midfielder is a suicide mission.

2) After the red when we were under tremendous pressure, he didnt react. Any manager worth his salt would tighten up, survive to HT then reorg. He did nothing and looked completely lost.

3) same shit tactics regardless of opponents. Have some guts to drop big names if necessary.

Incredibly disappointment he has been. I had my doubts if he had the personality to manage a club of our stature and its becoming obvious now.

Agreed.

Tactical consistency is good but only if it works. When it's obvious that your plan is not working you must change. At least have the courage to change.

I'm still Ole in and don't think changing manager now is a good idea or a must yet. So far he's done more positives than negatives. However same shit three matches in a row is too much for my liking. We may lose, result is not everything but at least play some decent football and make your players fight.

 

[VP89]

So far he has only used 5 new players and 1 on loan. I don’t know who the other two are but if you are going to count Cavani and Telles then we might should just wait next month to judge. Cavani available for 8 months free agent too and we waited until the last of the week to sign him.

"only used 5 new players"?

What he needs a whole first XI? No one is going to get that at this stage.

 

[VP89]

It wasn't the tactics last game. We actually started well until 2 major errors took the wind from our sails and a 3ed error plus a stupid moment from Martial caused a rout.

The poor pre season seems to have an enormous effect on defenders both in terms of individual sharpness and organization; we are not alone in this.

Er, what? You know Spurs created multiple chances that didn't make the back of the net prior to the red card, right?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

"only used 5 new players"?

What he needs a whole first XI? No one is going to get that at this stage.

I don‘t know what you are arguing there. He signed 5 not 7 yet.

 

[VP89]

I don‘t know what you are arguing there. He signed 5 not 7 yet.

I'm arguing this ridiculous notion that he should be judged later because he hasn't supposedly signed enough players to be judged yet - correct me if that's not your point of course?

 

[Langers7274]

I think Ole has done well to get us where we got to last season but is he the man that will bring back titles and CL success to this club?? I have serious doubts!

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I'm arguing this ridiculous notion that he should be judged later because he hasn't supposedly signed enough players to be judged yet - correct me if that's not your point of course?

No. If we want to judge him now then let’s exclude the 6th and 7th signings, don’t include the two new players who haven’t make any impact as part of the solution to fix some of the problem.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I'm fully behind Ole but you cannot ignore the pattern of chances we've been conceding all season

Brighton had what? 5-6-7 chances at our back post? It was playground stuff. To see us repeat the exact same errors against a far better team just a week later is a terrible indictment of the coaching staff (and the intelligence of the players too btw)

A good dm would help of course but a frankenstiens monster of kante, makalele and Carrick would be useless in this side where every other midfielder and forward is refusing to track their man or protect the player behind them

Some harsh words and lessons are required here Ole - it'll be you that pays the price mate

 

[VP89]

No. If we want to judge him now then let’s exclude the 6th and 7th signings, don’t include the two new players who haven’t make any impact as part of the solution to fix some of the problem.

No one is including the 6th and 7th signings. He has the quality to make better performances than the ones that get outplayed by Brighton, palace, dicked on by Tottenham. And even last year if you take Southampton, Palace, Everton, or the year before where you take a relegated Huddersfield.

He had a material portion where he was closer to fighting relegation than he was to fighting top 4. No top manager should find themselves in that position for an extended period of a season, with the relative quality of his team. Signings have feck all to do with it at that stage because he had quality at his disposal to be better than his oppositions. Signings mean feck all now when he makes school-boy tactical errors too. Ironically he actually has one of his signings on the bench to see a player doing feck all in his place.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No one is including the 6th and 7th signings. He has the quality to make better performances than the ones that get outplayed by Brighton, palace, dicked on by Tottenham. And even last year if you take Southampton, Palace, Everton, or the year before where you take a relegated Huddersfield.

He had a material portion where he was closer to fighting relegation than he was to fighting top 4. No top manager should find themselves in that position for an extended period of a season, with the relative quality of his team. Signings have feck all to do with it at that stage because he had quality at his disposal to be better than his oppositions. Signings mean feck all now when he makes school-boy tactical errors too. Ironically he actually has one of his signings on the bench to see a player doing feck all in his place.

The poster that I replied included them. You are replying to my post just to create an argument that I don’t even talk about.

 

[VP89]

The poster that I replied included them. You are replying to my post just to create an argument that I don’t even talk about.

Ah fair enough, should have read that sub-thread then. I just don't enjoy the concept of putting signings in to buy Ole time generally I guess.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Ah fair enough, should have read that sub-thread then. I just don't enjoy the concept of putting signings in to buy Ole time generally I guess.

We shouldn’t which is the point why I was replying to the poster why are we even including the two new signings that haven’t even play and make impact in the manager’s tactic, if we’re going to include Cavani and Telles then we might should just wait and see next month. That’s why I asked you a question I don’t know what you are arguing here.

 

[romufc]

I'm a big Ole supporter but:

1. Matic, Maguire, Pogba are slow af. Why he keep playing a high defensive line and demanding our FB to go very high up? Especially considering AWB is crap going forward.

2. Pogba has been dogshit recently. Why keep playing him? He has VDB, Fred, McT all fit.

3. It's clear af this Pogba Matic won't ever work. Both are slow, can't press, can't chase. We have literally no midfield recently. Why no change?

4. Everyone and their dog know how a Jose team would play. Why again and again he play dead straight into their plan?

5. We over overload the wings and the area before the penalty box. Sometime I see Bruno, Matic, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, even Maguire on the left. Basically 5 yards within each other. But there's like only Mason in the penalty box. Then the ball was passed back to Pogba then AWB. Then nothing happened. What's purpose of this?

I know Ole hasn't been backed. I'm on that train too but I don't think he'd need new signings to play some decent football. Which has not been the case over the last three matches.

Very good points. I too want to back Ole but his stubbornness will get him sacked. The best football we have played under Ole in the last year has been when the midfield was Matic, Fred, Bruno.

The times when we said, Pogba has to fight to get back in, instead Ole said here you go Pogba, you are in regardless how well anyone else has done. He had 3 good games after lockdown and 10 bad ones after.

Why won't Ole go back to a workman midfield when you have 4 talented players up top? We cannot carry Pogba and Matic in a midfield. It is so clear to see, it will never work. We look so open.

He needs to show some balls and drop Pogba.

 

[Denis79]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

Stop being entitled and toxic, stand by the manager to whatever end!

 

[Roboc7]

Said for long time, the tactics, the coaching and the entire game plan is flawed and it’s put in place by a manager and coaches not up to the job.

Maguire is the poster boy for all this, an 80m CB because he fits the cultural reboot. Problem is he was never worth 80m, wasn’t and isn’t a leader but has been made Captain and doesn’t fit the tactics. If Ole wants to play a high line and push the fullbacks forward Maguire needs to be sold.

Liverpool overpaid for VVD because he fit their style of play, we overpaid for a CB that doesn’t fit our style of play. We’ve learnt noting and are going nowhere.

 

[Adam-Utd]

4-2-3-1 just doesn't suit us. We are way too rigid in midfield.

It should be a 4-3-3 with Bruno and Pogba ahead, fred behind.

 

[kiristao]

Better than when? Maguire is no upgrade to Smalling, Valencia I would pick over AWB, so basically its just Bruno. Our squad is a mess and it needs about 10 better players to the squad if that wants to fight for titles in the future. I'm tired of those "talented" young players we have (Rashford and Martial), would struggle to start for most if not all top teams.

I meant compared to other teams in the EPL bar maybe City & Liverpool and arguable Chelsea. But we don't look half as cohesive and organised as the likes to Leeds, Wolves, Everton, etc. Am not even comparing us to Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester , etc.
Also, if after spending over 200 million in 18 months if the squad is still not better than what it was when Ole took over then why did he sanctions those signings? Please do not say that the likes of AWB, Maguire, Bruno, James, etc are being forced onto Ole by Ed.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

How is Ole not backed? I really can't believe you guys keep saying this as if it is the truth? The board gave him an 80m defender and a 50m right back. They also gave him Bruno who saved his job last season. This summer they got him VDB and are now getting him Telles and Cavani. He also got James and Ighalo on loan. We can still get him Dembele on loan as well.

He has signed 7 players in 2 years + 1 on loan with the potential of another one. How is he not backed exactly? Because we couldn't get him a 120m attacker?! Because we couldn't pay 120m for a player we should ignore all the money he spent and players he got in last 2 markets and claim he's not backed?

Ole has been backed as well as any other manager we have had post Fergie. Period.

I am sure they did that to stick it to Jose. Bet Jose is thinking thank god I didn't get him. With a good scouting system I bet we could have got a more capable CB for less money. They are backing him, but I think he is listening to the wrong people and taking bad advise on who to sign in some cases.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I think it's the pressure, consequences and complacency.

His initial 433 system is free, high pressures, high runnings, more attacking and risk taking. This is the time when he is in hyper happy thrilling mode being the caretaker of freaking Manchester United dream job even if temporary doesn't matter. Also he is very proactive in making quick tactical decisions changing his system and players every single game.

Months later he quickly became the permanent manager and after seeing how his players crumble fitness wise with injuries unable to follow his high press runnings demands, he resorted to a more defensive 433 and other formations. He also decided to change the system to more defensive after seeing how our team defending.

Playing safer but dull defensive system give you that bit of assurances of getting better results which also explain his first transfer window; defense is the priority. Basically job security, you're more likely wanting to keep things safe so you can last longer in this dream job.

2nd season we see a permanent switch to 4231 and the occasional 5 at the back system as we benefit this by getting that good defensive stats of one of the best defense team in the league and least goal conceded. Unfortunately our games are so dull before Bruno, with many fans attribute that to not having Pogba... seriously even in the games where Pogba play, we were so boring to watch.

3rd season and we're still repeating it.

Couple all of those with his insistence on individual brilliances and stagnancy, not bother to patch nor improve any weaknesses in the system, and you got a mess. He also trust some players more than the others. Has his favourite players.

It's safer and less criticism if you pick your best players even if they don't really play well together in a certain system. His stubbornness in forcing all the best players to fit in without adjusting the system to suits them is just disappointing.

He's also less active nowadays in making changes/tweaks of tactical instructions to his players on the sideline, really believing his 4231 to be a god perfect system in need of any consideration of adjustment nor changes.

We finished 3rd mate and reach 3 semi finals, that's a high achievement with this group of players. Nothing wrong at all with his system.... it's the players that are the problems....

To be fair, his tactical choices against the big fishes overall are usually spot-on... but recent track records of 2 games so far vs Chelsea and Spurs are so bad it's disgusting.