Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2019/20 Discussion

Womp

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Think it really needs to be worked on. Far too often Pogba is isolated when we are pressed and we can't get out of the midfield. We look great when teams sit back, but have extremely struggled at times against teams that overload the midfield, basically leaving Pogba by himself there.
 

#07

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Think it really needs to be worked on. Far too often Pogba is isolated when we are pressed and we can't get out of the midfield. We look great when teams sit back, but have extremely struggled at times against teams that overload the midfield, basically leaving Pogba by himself there.
We just need more from the full backs. When the midfield is flooded the way out is down the outside. That's how we got our goals against Southampton, going to the wings and then into midfield.

Obviously if we had a real ball playing centre back and a #6 who could cope with pressure it'd help a lot. However, its still possible to execute Ole's ideas with the players we have. The full backs simply have to give more. When they get the ball they have to have the bravery to take responsibility for advancing it, then look to play it forward either into midfield or over the top.

Since Shaw's injury we've seen a little too much timidity from the flanks. Compare and contrast with Robertson and Alexander-Arnold...
 

zenith

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Going through this thread, the realization occurs that just how many glory hunting and self entitled fans we have. Everyone wants success tomorrow but very few recognize the process and hard work needed to even get close.

I admire the work ole and his team has put in over the season to improve the team to this point. We've build a very solid foundation, have one of the leagues best defense and most fearful attack, the team spirit is back and numerous players have improved significantly during the season.

Doing well in the Europa would be an icing on the cake.
 

SirScholes

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We just need more from the full backs. When the midfield is flooded the way out is down the outside. That's how we got our goals against Southampton, going to the wings and then into midfield.

Obviously if we had a real ball playing centre back and a #6 who could cope with pressure it'd help a lot. However, its still possible to execute Ole's ideas with the players we have. The full backs simply have to give more. When they get the ball they have to have the bravery to take responsibility for advancing it, then look to play it forward either into midfield or over the top.

Since Shaw's injury we've seen a little too much timidity from the flanks. Compare and contrast with Robertson and Alexander-Arnold...
Agreed

it’s a really nice system to overload attack but it is simply killed by our fullbacks
Shaw is decent but AWB is simply not good enough to pull it off

I hope we bring in Sancho who can make Up for that lack of creativity on the right
 
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Going through this thread, the realization occurs that just how many glory hunting and self entitled fans we have. Everyone wants success tomorrow but very few recognize the process and hard work needed to even get close.

I admire the work ole and his team has put in over the season to improve the team to this point. We've build a very solid foundation, have one of the leagues best defense and most fearful attack, the team spirit is back and numerous players have improved significantly during the season.

Doing well in the Europa would be an icing on the cake.
The fan base has a massive toxic element.

I don’t know whether it’s the same for all clubs, Or whether it’s a Utd problem.

It’s clear to see there has been progress under OGS, it’s also bloody obvious building a good team takes time. For goodness sake we tried the route of buying everyone and anyone we could, and largely waster £500m.
 

Mr Smith

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Think it really needs to be worked on. Far too often Pogba is isolated when we are pressed and we can't get out of the midfield. We look great when teams sit back, but have extremely struggled at times against teams that overload the midfield, basically leaving Pogba by himself there.
Yeah I find it really frustrating how high Bruno plays when we have the ball; he should be dropping between the lines to link with Pogba, but he's clearly been instructed to play basically as a second striker. It's probably the biggest thing I'd like to see change about our approach currently.
 

#07

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Agreed

it’s a really nice system to overload attack but it is simply killed by our fullbacks
Shaw is decent but AWB is simply not good enough to pull it off

I hope we bring in Sancho who can make Up for that lack of creativity on the right
It's something every full back in our team should be capable of. It's not as if we are asking for them to do something excessively complicated. At basically every Premier League club fullbacks provide an outlet and put crosses in.

Nobody is saying they have to be Roberto Carlos and Cafu. Just look up and put a ball in behind to put the opposition on the back foot against our pace up top.

It's frustrating when the ball goes wide and the fullbacks don't even look for the speed we have up top, they just go back to Maguire and Lindelof.

Rafael and Evra was the last fullback pairing we have had at the right level for this club.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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It's something every full back in our team should be capable of. It's not as if we are asking for them to do something excessively complicated. At basically every Premier League club fullbacks provide an outlet and put crosses in.

Nobody is saying they have to be Roberto Carlos and Cafu. Just look up and put a ball in behind to put the opposition on the back foot against our pace up top.

It's frustrating when the ball goes wide and the fullbacks don't even look for the speed we have up top, they just go back to Maguire and Lindelof.

Rafael and Evra was the last fullback pairing we have had at the right level for this club.
Maybe be because they were actual FBs? Young and Valencia were both converted wingers. And AWB has always been more of a defensive FB even though he has upped his game recently.

Edit: also almost all PL fullbacks being able to do that is hogwash. Except top 6 I doubt others are even comparable to the attacking ones.
 

#07

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Maybe be because they were actual FBs? Young and Valencia were both converted wingers. And AWB has always been more of a defensive FB even though he has upped his game recently.

Edit: also almost all PL fullbacks being able to do that is hogwash. Except top 6 I doubt others are even comparable to the attacking ones.
The thing I said I want to see from our full backs was:

Nobody is saying they have to be Roberto Carlos and Cafu. Just look up and put a ball in behind to put the opposition on the back foot against our pace up top.

It's frustrating when the ball goes wide and the fullbacks don't even look for the speed we have up top, they just go back to Maguire and Lindelof.
I am not sure why you think only top six teams would have players capable of this.

Lucas Digne, who doesn't play for a top six team, made seven assists this past season. He made 2.1 key passes per game, 2.1 crosses per game and 1.8 long balls per game (link).

Ryan Bertrand, who doesn't play for a top six team, got an assist this past season. He made 0.9 key passes per game, 1.1. crosses per game and 1.3 long balls per game (link).

Patrick Van Aanholt, who doesn't play for a top six team, got two assists this past season. He made 1.1 key passes per game, 1.1. crosses per game and 1 long ball per game (link).

Aaron Cresswell, who doesn't play for a top six team, admittedly got no assists this past season. However, he made 0.8 key passes per game, 0.8 crosses per game and 2.2 long balls per game (link).

Matt Targett, who doesn't play for a top six team, got two assists this past season. He made 1 key pass per game, 0.8 key passes per game and 1.8 long balls per game (link).

Charlie Taylor, who doesn't play for a top six team, got an assist this past season. He made 0.5 key passes per game, 0.8 crosses per game and 1.4 long balls per game (link).

Now, by comparison, Shaw got an assist this past season, averages a key pass per game, 0.4 crosses per game and 0.8 long balls per game (link).

Wan-Bissaka actually has four assists. However, he averages 0.8 key passes per game, 0.4 crosses per game and 1 long ball per game. So he has four assists off, what I consider to be, a substandard level of average attacking involvements. Imagine, for example, he crossed as much per game as some of the other players listed above? Imagine he played as many direct balls forward for the likes of Martial and Rashford to run on to? Don't you think those four assists could easily become six or eight assists, especially given how much space Wan-Bissaka tends to get out wide only to turn backwards?

As I said before, I am not expecting our full backs to rival Roberto Carlos and Cafu. I'm expecting them to be able to do what the likes of Bertrand and Van Aanholt give. For Man Utd that should not be too much. They have gotten better as the season has progressed but they could give much, much, much more.
 
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GailSpaceWynand

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The thing I said I want to see from our full backs was:



I am not sure why you think only top six teams would have players capable of this.

Lucas Digne, who doesn't play for a top six team, made seven assists this past season. He made 2.1 key passes per game, 2.1 crosses per game and 1.8 long balls per game (link).

Ryan Bertrand, who doesn't play for a top six team, got an assist this past season. He made 0.9 key passes per game, 1.1. crosses per game and 1.3 long balls per game (link).

Patrick Van Aanholt, who doesn't play for a top six team, got two assists this past season. He made 1.1 key passes per game, 1.1. crosses per game and 1 long ball per game (link).

Aaron Cresswell, who doesn't play for a top six team, admittedly got no assists this past season. However, he made 0.8 key passes per game, 0.8 crosses per game and 2.2 long balls per game (link).

Matt Targett, who doesn't play for a top six team, got two assists this past season. He made 1 key pass per game, 0.8 key passes per game and 1.8 long balls per game (link).

Charlie Taylor, who doesn't play for a top six team, got an assist this past season. He made 0.5 key passes per game, 0.8 crosses per game and 1.4 long balls per game (link).

Now, by comparison, (as my eyes told me) Shaw doesn't compare badly on these metrics.
What about AWB? The point I was countering was that all PL teams seem to do it but ours can't? Maybe AWB couldnt before but seeing his stats over the past few months? He probably can.

* and please post AWBs and Shaws stats too so we can compare. Great post BTW.
 

#07

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What about AWB? The point I was countering was that all PL teams seem to do it but ours can't? Maybe AWB couldnt before but seeing his stats over the past few months? He probably can.

* and please post AWBs and Shaws stats too so we can compare. Great post BTW.
I pressed post too quickly by accident. Have edited the previous post.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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I pressed post too quickly by accident. Have edited the previous post.
Yup agreed. Wan bissaka needs to up his attacking game esp in the CL. We are too central in terms of chances created.

Hopefully we'll have more attacking impetus from the wings (this does not equate to just crosses, mind.) but I believe AWB can improve more. Shaw is fine at this. My point was that apart from top 6 none can do it at a level where we can consider them WC (not even shaw/AWB).
 

Web of Bissaka

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Eh? It's as if we only play that way since this restart.

No! We've been doing that since the season start with this 4231 new system. The only difference is both Matic and Bruno made it looks good. Bruno freely dropping to CM alongside one of the two CMs also made the system more efficient.

1. Why only to the "left"?
Did the writer seriously watch our games.. really now... Matic, Fred and McTominay have been slotting into any of the 3 slots at the back next to the two CBs depending on different situations. We do this ever since the start of the season.

2. And why is it "attacking"?
Wrong! We only set-up that way when we're building-up while keeping possession at the back exploring our attacking options as we circling the ball around, spotting chances to pass forward.

Our attacking positioning of players and team shape/structure are way different, with two at the back always, not three. Matic/Fred/McT will move up and join attacking and possession play further up when we're attacking.

3. Problems of that build-up shape/structure?
The highest risk of that "system" is the solo CDM. A good presser or stealer can easily exploit it, we've seen many examples of this. Pogba is just not suitable there as he lacks the awareness of surrounding opposing players when he's facing our goal and he tend to hold the ball.

Cheers for sharing the article.
We have to question its validity though, sounds like they only watch United play since this restart... and doesn't seem like they watch properly either..
 

#07

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Yup agreed. Wan bissaka needs to up his attacking game esp in the CL. We are too central in terms of chances created.

Hopefully we'll have more attacking impetus from the wings (this does not equate to just crosses, mind.) but I believe AWB can improve more. Shaw is fine at this. My point was that apart from top 6 none can do it at a level where we can consider them WC (not even shaw/AWB).
I see. That's fair, although at this point, we don't need Robertson and Alexander-Arnold levels of contributions from the fullbacks. When teams press us if they just took the ball from the centre halves, and either went direct over the top or took responsibility for pegging it down the wing and putting crosses in, it would make such a massive difference to our play. Teams would be reluctant to press too much because our forward line is full of pace. All they need to do is take the ball and clip it in behind pressing midfield or defensive lines. Players at our club should be able to do that. It must annoy our forwards no end that they make tons of early runs every game and the ball is rarely played fast enough into them, unless Bruno has it.
 

RedSky

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Lets see how AWB does this season before completely writing him off. It was only his second full senior season in football and his first at United. He improved his attacking game until he got absolutely wrecked physically and struggled to run in the final few games. What we really lack is an able deputy for AWB, i'm hoping Laird will be that player as Fosu-Mensah really doesn't have the talent in the final third to be effective for us. He's decent enough defensively but not capable going forward. Pretty much the reverse of Dalot who's ok offensively but pretty bad defensively.

Shaw has proven himself to worth sticking with this season, but jury is out for Williams who certainly shows a lot of desire and energy at LB but again I don't think he's effective going forward.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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I see. That's fair, although at this point, we don't need Robertson and Alexander-Arnold levels of contributions from the fullbacks. When teams press us if they just took the ball from the centre halves, and either went direct over the top or took responsibility for pegging it down the wing and putting crosses in, it would make such a massive difference to our play. Teams would be reluctant to press too much because our forward line is full of pace. All they need to do is take the ball and clip it in behind pressing midfield or defensive lines. Players at our club should be able to do that. It must annoy our forwards no end that they make tons of early runs every game and the ball is rarely played fast enough into them, unless Bruno has it.
Yup agreed. Another point here is that AWB never had the support of a good winger/IF like Shaw had with Rashy. I have looked at detailed analysis of how Rashy and Shaw go so well (swapping positions, dropping deep as a Winger, or taking up the half spaces so that Shaw can attack the wings). Maybe with Sancho we'll see a different AWB.
 

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He's not very good at giving youngsters minutes and managing them, even in dead rubber games. Worrying. I hope we loan a few next season.
 

sammsky1

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I gIvE yOuTh a ChAncE.

An utter shambles subbing Pogba on while leaving Garner on the bench.
Why? Winning Europa is top priority and any minutes should go to aide that objective. Pogba obviously felt like he needed a run out and that take priority.
 

He'sRaldo

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I get that we're supposed to be free-flowing, but we look very disorganized at times.

And in situations where the player quality of both teams is fairly even (aka when the backups are being played), organization does matter a lot.
 

Mainoldo

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This is actually boring now. I can’t believe the blind faith that keeps persisting. How many times are we just going to blame players for not being up to the task? I mean it was Lask.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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A win would have given us more money than a draw or defeat I think. Maybe a reason to play with a stronger side?
Still not a lot for us.
 

Tarrou

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A win would have given us more money than a draw or defeat I think. Maybe a reason to play with a stronger side?
Still not a lot for us.
nah we just get prize money for going through in the knock-out stages

we didn't play a strong side though? only one first choice player started

Pogba probably came on to keep his match fitness up before the next round