Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2020/21 Discussion

Strelok

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
1,961
Location
Da Nang, Vietnam
Spurs team wasn’t the third most expensive team and they had no depth whatsoever. No backup to Kane, mostly academy players on bench. Which made what Pochettino did even more incredible with the lack of depth he had.


Based on the team today. Correction, our second team will be better.

Henderson > Pickford
Williams < Coleman
Tuanzebe > Keane
Bailiy > Holegate
Telles = Digne
Matic = Allen
Pogba > Doucoure
Van De Beek < James
Greenwood > Bernard
Canvani < DCL ?
James < Sigurdson/Richarlson
I know you're super disappointed that your beloved Poch can't get the job today. But this is quite hilarious mate :lol:
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,121
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Spurs team wasn’t the third most expensive team and they had no depth whatsoever. No backup to Kane, mostly academy players on bench. Which made what Pochettino did even more incredible with the lack of depth he had.


Based on the team today. Correction, our second team will be better.

Henderson > Pickford
Williams < Coleman
Tuanzebe > Keane
Bailiy > Holegate
Telles = Digne
Matic = Allen
Pogba > Doucoure
Van De Beek < James
Greenwood > Bernard
Canvani < DCL ?
James < Sigurdson/Richarlson

That is actually the worst post I’ve ever seen.
 

Amadaeus

Pochettino's mother (MMM BBC)
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
7,492
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Supports
Mauricio Pochettino
I know you're super disappointed that your beloved Poch can't get the job today. But this is quite hilarious mate :lol:
That is actually the worst post I’ve ever seen.
Nice counter argument, that doesn’t add nothing to the conversation. I prove how strong our second team is, after you highlighted That part of my post. Also, Never expected Pochettino to get the job today. I knew Ole will come out with a result as he typically does when he needs it. I don’t even think Pochettino will even want to wait anymore. If this is the standards you want at United, I am not going to arguing with that as that is your opinion. I prefer United past standards over ole’s standard of inconsistency.
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,121
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Nice counter argument, that doesn’t add nothing to the conversation. I prove how strong our second team is, after you highlighted That part of my post. Also, Never expected Pochettino to get the job today. I knew Ole will come out with a result as he typically does when he needs it. I don’t even think Pochettino will even want to wait anymore. If this is the standards you want at United, I am not going to arguing with that as that is your opinion. I prefer United past standards over ole’s standard of inconsistency.
I don’t want to waste time counter arguing such a genuine mentalist
 

MattofManchester

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
657
Spurs team wasn’t the third most expensive team and they had no depth whatsoever. No backup to Kane, mostly academy players on bench. Which made what Pochettino did even more incredible with the lack of depth he had.


Based on the team today. Correction, our second team will be better.

Henderson > Pickford
Williams < Coleman
Tuanzebe > Keane
Bailiy > Holegate
Telles = Digne
Matic = Allen
Pogba > Doucoure
Van De Beek < James
Greenwood > Bernard
Canvani < DCL ?
James < Sigurdson/Richarlson
This is a serious underestimation of some of the players at Everton.
 

dev1l

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
9,243
This is a serious underestimation of some of the players at Everton.
Everton first 11 are very good and can beat any pl.side. Problem is that they don't have enough depth in the squad
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,121
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
After a turbulent few years - America have got rid of their biggest mistake ever and can look forward to being led by someone who has compassion and dignity. It feels like the “good” side have won after years of being led by an arrogant prick.

It reminds me of the days after we sacked Mourinho and got Ole in.
 

justsomebloke

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
55
We have been on runs like this before since we signed Bruno last year we won 32 pts from 14 games. Last year during Ole's first run we got 32 pts from 12 games (also unbeaten) and by our 14th game we had 35pts and 1 loss. Our run last season was actually better but did that run mean we were the best team in the league, simply because of great form over 14 games? no because we then collapsed and finished 30pts off the leaders despite having more pts than anyone bar Liverpool during our run. I believe we had a similar run under Jose. A great run over 12-14 games mean diddly squat in the grand scheme of things and could simply be a bounce or purple patch.
I would tend to see these as distinct phases due to specific circumstances rather than as inconsistency. The first run of wins clearly had to do with the change of manager and mentality, and the lift that often follows from that. It wasn't sustainable, partly because such a lift is by nature temporary and partly because the squad required changes. Hence, project rebuild from that summer on, which in my opinion was the right and required response irrespective of who was the manager. That's effectively zero hour. Changes were made in the summer, but there was scant reason to expect immediate success - for my part, I thought at that point that 5th was a realistic ambition. That was largely vindicated up to the end of January, as results varied wildly and we could not withstand injuries to key players with such a thin squad. That was quite obviously a team with a lot of work remaining to be done, and frankly there was no reason to expect anything else. Then Bruno arrived, and following that they were clearly a different team - a key missing piece had been found, things clicked and they played dominant football. Not for a short run, but for more than a third of the entire season. And please, give me a break , "collapsed"? What, because we lost the FA Cup and EL semi-finals? We went undefeated in the PL.

Inconsistency is when you achieve different results with the same means. Through last season, that's not the case. You seem to think of this as a sort of linear expectation of results. Whereas it is a process. There is absolutely no reason why this team would be close to matching Liverpool last season. The squad isn't good enough for that.

However. What decides if the last part of last season represented the turning of a corner rather than a temporary blip is how things develop this season. And sadly, the returns aren't good so far. I'm prepared to accept the first three games was due to the absurd lack of a proper pre-season, and the Newcastle and PSG games appeared to confirm that. But then there was Arsenal and Istanbul. The Arsenal game in particular was hard to swallow, and rests squarely at Solskjærs feet. It's not just the result, which was no scandal in itself, but rather the obvious innapropriateness of the formation and tactics. Not only was it the wrong choice against that particular opposition, it also represented a deviation from where we were supposed to be heading and an apparent retreat into adapting to the limitations of the squad and going with something that fails to generate any sustained offensive pressure. That was to me worse than the result. And Istanbul of course was just a shambles. But we'll see - if they now regain the form they showed in the latter part of last season and go on a sustained strong run, it might be we're on track anyway. But in any case, this is not a season where we'll challenge for titles. It should be a season where afterwards it seems credible that if the obvious shortcomings and imbalances that weren't addressed in this transfer window are addressed, then it's reasonable to expect we might be challengers next season. That's the benchmark as far as I'm concerned. I'm really not into the "I want & deserve success because this is Man Utd and you have failed to give me what I want" mentality.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,225
Looks to me like quite a few of the players have lost faith, and are simply plodding along.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
18,515
The players continue to play for him. 2-0 down transformed into a 3-2. Frankly, if we could finish and defend set pieces it would've been comfortable. Credit to Ole to making the necessary changes at half time to rescue the game. I was slightly dubious about where Bruno and Van de Beek were playing at the start of the second half but it sure worked out. Thank f-k we had to Cavani in the back pocket too, eh?
 

Samid

follows Pogue around, fixing his images
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
28,681
Location
Oslo, Norway
Glad he made a tactical change at half time rather than waiting until the 70th minute. More of this please.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,287
The players are putting in the effort for him but nothing changes. We still look like we are making it up as we go along. Southampton have now scored 5 almost identical goals against us since he's been in charge. What are our coaches doing in training?
 

Dr. StrangeHate

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
2,399
I am hoping he has realised that Cavani and VDB need to play all the tricky games. Sure rest them against the West Broms but they should play most of the rest.
 

Strelok

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
1,961
Location
Da Nang, Vietnam
Imo he got his tactical choice and line up spot on this match. We were the better team in the first half despite the score.

Needless to say about the second half I think.

More of the same please. Been a long while we could come back and won the game after conceding two goals down in the first half. I'm very happy :devil:
 

Leroy The Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
13,377
Location
London
A welcomed change to see him proactive in making that half time sub with Cavani for Greenwood. It’s not something he usually does.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
Scout
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
39,505
Location
W.Yorks
Nice to see him change things significantly at half time... and also credit it to him for his management of Cavani so far. Looks like its worked a treat.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
6,399
As long as he can show that he is improving as well.

I think we played relatively well against Southampton, 2 goals we couldn't do much about.

I think the team showed character to keep going and get the goals. It wasn't even as if it was gung ho, it was good display of attacking with balance in my opinion.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
2,649
I wondered how he would counter their press which gave us a lot of problems in the past.

He solved it by playing extremely compact in areas wherever the ball was in the first half. I was impressed and we should try that more against that kind of teams.

That's one of good things about Ole. Solving tactical issues.

One thing he lacks is getting the team to play consistently. I sometimes wonder if he should just have one way of playing and getting better and consistency with it over the time.
 

Tapori

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
1,483
Location
Manchester - South Side
I wondered how he would counter their press which gave us a lot of problems in the past.

He solved it by playing extremely compact in areas wherever the ball was in the first half. I was impressed and we should try that more against that kind of teams.

That's one of good things about Ole. Solving tactical issues.

One thing he lacks is getting the team to play consistently. I sometimes wonder if he should just have one way of playing and getting better and consistency with it over the time.
I diasagree.

If you look at the evolution of SAF, he brought in Quieroz and initially it didn't work, but what he was trying to do was have a squad capable of tactical fluidity. Each match is different and whereas Guardiola has a "way" of playing relatively few major tactical changes are made to the style.

I think Ole in the spotlight, is admirably trying, with his new squad additions and future young players to come, to have a base formation but have the ability to routinely change depending on the situation.

In short; if we keep improving or being up there this tactical changing will help the squad in the long term. Though, in doing so it may cost him his job if his players don't buy in or he gets it wrong in too many games. From his big game record, we can see that he is thhinker and tinkerer.
 

mancave bear

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
169
Another great match by Ole. Good gameplan and good adjustments, when things did not go as planned. And we did it without Pogba, Mc Sauce and Martial, and with Greenwood not looking his best. Good to have something in hand : )
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
6,399
I wondered how he would counter their press which gave us a lot of problems in the past.

He solved it by playing extremely compact in areas wherever the ball was in the first half. I was impressed and we should try that more against that kind of teams.

That's one of good things about Ole. Solving tactical issues.

One thing he lacks is getting the team to play consistently. I sometimes wonder if he should just have one way of playing and getting better and consistency with it over the time.
This is a good post.

We have seen it in various games, when it comes to a one of tactical game, he can do it.

He does struggle to build an identity of for the club, like how Pep or Klopp have done. He is a game to game manager.
 

simonhch

Horrible boss
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
11,448
Location
Sartorial Guru
Supports
Urban Combat Preparedness
I wondered how he would counter their press which gave us a lot of problems in the past.

He solved it by playing extremely compact in areas wherever the ball was in the first half. I was impressed and we should try that more against that kind of teams.

That's one of good things about Ole. Solving tactical issues.

One thing he lacks is getting the team to play consistently. I sometimes wonder if he should just have one way of playing and getting better and consistency with it over the time.
It's an interesting idea. I think one of the contributing factors to the inconsistency is also the personnel. Rashford, a key attacking player has just turned 23. People forget this because he broke through at 17, but he's still young. These are the years coming now, 23-30, where we would expect to see him add consistency to his game. Martial has always been inconsistent, but in football terms is in that period where he still has time to add it. The other part of that trident, Greenwood is 19. How much can you realistically expect from a kid that age in terms of putting in top drawer performances week in and week out. Our talismanic signing Pogba, is the epitome of inconsistent, which means he was never worth the fee - and you often see him dropped for the biggest games now.

The pieces we have in place point to a very bright future, if we can continue to squad build in the way we have. But I don't see enough players yet performing to an elite level, to consistently stick with one tactic. We are just rarely able to overpower other teams if we come with a predictable approach. Some tactical flexibility, and ingenuity is required. Just look at the away win at PSG this year. We switched to a 3-4-3, drafted in some different personnel, and surprised them.

I do think Ole has some tough choices ahead. The biggest one is Pogba. The way the game is played now, you need your engine room to be both technically excellent, and be willing to put in a lot of hard graft. I am not a fan of the triangle midfield (two holding, one in front), preferring an inverted triangle for a more attacking approach. I believe that you can press and defend from different points on the pitch to similar effect. But as Ole prefers a counterattacking approach, it makes sense he likes a double pivot. Personally, I think the perfect blend for our midfield, in terms of work rate and technical ability, is Fred, Van der Beek, and Fernandes in an inverted triangle. With his physical presence, stature, and passing range, I would love it if Pogba could reinvent himself to be a deep sitting playmaker and enforcer. His ability to accurately ping long balls to start a counter attack would be lethal. But....his positional sense needs works, and most importantly, he just has an infuriating inability to do the simple things well. Which is the most important quality in that position. He just overplays. All the time. If a manager could ever get through to him and make him see that 99% of the time if he just kept it simple, released the ball quickly, played the simple pass, did the smart thing; he'd be world class in any midfield position.

I'd play Cavani up front, as he is a superb finisher, and has both an incredible work rate, aerial presence, and the ability to hold the ball up; and have Rashford and Martial as interchanging inside forwards. Greenwood rotating in as cover and rotation for all three positions. The back 4 for me is a lock with AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, and Telles. Tuanzebe and Shaw are excellent rotational options. With Shaw being the superior defender than Telles, but worse going forwards. I just believe we need a quality overlap and delivery on at least one side. Over the next 12 months, if he can stay fit, I would like to see Tuanzebe integrated into the starting XI. His pace will allow us to play a higher line and be closer to the opposition goal. That's all going to depend on his ability to stay fit.

In terms of recuitment, I would like to see the club continue to invest in three types of players: (1) Elite youth and emerging prospects (Mejbi, Pellestri, Diallo etc), (2) Top tier established talent pre-superstar or peak status (Fernandes, Sancho, Haaland type players who can become world class, or AWB, VdB, players who are pre-peak and are top prospects. Camavinga is moving into this bracket), (3) The odd at peak top tier player who can push the team to the next level (Pogba was supposed to be this but hasn't been. Maguire takes a lot of shit, but has improved our defence immeasurably and provides the leadership badly missing).
 
Last edited:

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
2,649
I diasagree.

If you look at the evolution of SAF, he brought in Quieroz and initially it didn't work, but what he was trying to do was have a squad capable of tactical fluidity. Each match is different and whereas Guardiola has a "way" of playing relatively few major tactical changes are made to the style.

I think Ole in the spotlight, is admirably trying, with his new squad additions and future young players to come, to have a base formation but have the ability to routinely change depending on the situation.

In short; if we keep improving or being up there this tactical changing will help the squad in the long term. Though, in doing so it may cost him his job if his players don't buy in or he gets it wrong in too many games. From his big game record, we can see that he is thhinker and tinkerer.
You disagree that he should have a plan and stick to it?

Well, I do get what you mean. I like that we can play different stuff depending on who we play. And, the team will adapt to it at some point. But, when? Will they have enough time? That's the biggest concern to me.

Having a plan to stick and get a bit more consistency might help us short term and that, in turn, will give him a bit more time to evolve with more tactical stuff later on.
 

Odin

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
158
Location
Midgard
I wondered how he would counter their press which gave us a lot of problems in the past.

He solved it by playing extremely compact in areas wherever the ball was in the first half. I was impressed and we should try that more against that kind of teams.

That's one of good things about Ole. Solving tactical issues.

One thing he lacks is getting the team to play consistently. I sometimes wonder if he should just have one way of playing and getting better and consistency with it over the time.
I think this is the exact reason why he has not mixed it up as much as expected with tactical tweaks. When you mix young players (who have been part of a team who parked the bus for a couple of seasons) with players new to the liga, every coordinated team move becomes a challenge. Surprise!

I hope we'll see massive improvement in team cohesion this season.
 
Last edited:

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
7,286
He needs a top quality coach. A lot of coaches may not have brilliant IQ but the top coaches do. Ole seems to have a good IQ. So he needs a top quality coach who can see it differently from him. See things from a different angle. Then for Ole to trust him.
I really don't think they see the pictures from a different angle. Otherwise they would not set up to defend corners the same way every time.
And that we ourselves would take near post corners some time. We have decent headers of the ball. Why don't we ever take a near post corner?
Ole scored the winner from a near post corner.
I think playing narrow suits us more.
I like to see him play Henderson in the next match or two. Certainly in the PL.
 

Tapori

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
1,483
Location
Manchester - South Side
You disagree that he should have a plan and stick to it?

Well, I do get what you mean. I like that we can play different stuff depending on who we play. And, the team will adapt to it at some point. But, when? Will they have enough time? That's the biggest concern to me.

Having a plan to stick and get a bit more consistency might help us short term and that, in turn, will give him a bit more time to evolve with more tactical stuff later on.
Agreed. It depends on what the plan is. I am no fan of tactical rigidity.
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
5,126
Location
NYC
This is a good post.

We have seen it in various games, when it comes to a one of tactical game, he can do it.

He does struggle to build an identity of for the club, like how Pep or Klopp have done. He is a game to game manager.
Oh we know the identify of the club under Ole. Think the 2007/2008 team, that won the PL and the CL. That's the way we want to play +/- some adjustments due to the evolution of the game.
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
5,126
Location
NYC
You disagree that he should have a plan and stick to it?

Well, I do get what you mean. I like that we can play different stuff depending on who we play. And, the team will adapt to it at some point. But, when? Will they have enough time? That's the biggest concern to me.

Having a plan to stick and get a bit more consistency might help us short term and that, in turn, will give him a bit more time to evolve with more tactical stuff later on.
It's a legitimate concern really, one we have struggled to solve under Ole. But I do think that tactical flexibility is the ultimate goal, because we don't want to be as predictable as a Pep team for example. We just need to be able to do that. It goes back a bit to the "football intelligence" LVG was talking about, but Ole is basically trying to provide more elements to it so that it becomes a bit more tangible. In short, you guys the players are on the field, you have to solve the situation. So find a way. But here are the different elements we give you to make it happen.

The consistency in the approach has been made harder with some key players' injuries and just some lack of form that basically make the team focus on other areas instead of that one. Now that we seem to have stabilized a bit more, we will have to think again on how to bring back consistently that tactical fluidity and this understanding of the football in a way that players can solve any situation.
 

NinjaFletch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
18,788
One of his worst nights, probably. Fred's non sub at half time was baffling (yes it wasn't a foul, but the ref knew he fecked up and was looking to get him off). Taking Cavani off when you're chasing a game almost equally as baffling.
 

dabeast

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
204
Ole showed himself to be a coach out of his depth today. He:-
1. Failed to take off Fred in the first half
2. Didn't shut up shop when Fred was sent off (we would have been equal on head-to-head with a superior goal difference to PSG).
3. Took off our 2nd best player on the night (Cavani) and played a 19 year-old with no CL experience.
4. Failed to sub Bruno who was terrible with VdB.

These decisions, taken together, are the reason why we are going to crash out at the group stage. Thus, they should be grounds for dismissal.
 

fergieisold

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,102
Location
Saddleworth (home) Manchester (work)
Ole showed himself to be a coach out of his depth today. He:-
1. Failed to take off Fred in the first half
2. Didn't shut up shop when Fred was sent off (we would have been equal on head-to-head with a superior goal difference to PSG).
3. Took off our 2nd best player on the night (Cavani) and played a 19 year-old with no CL experience.
4. Failed to sub Bruno who was terrible with VdB.

These decisions, taken together, are the reason why we are going to crash out at the group stage. Thus, they should be grounds for dismissal.
Only 1 has any validity. We played very well, even with 10 men.
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
18,408
I can't be too mad at him as I thought we played well tonight for the most part but his lack of a decision not to take Fred off was criminal.
 

afrocentricity

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
21,993
I get why he didn't want to take Fred off, but he got it wrong. Fred should have been subbed...