Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2020/21 Discussion

laughtersassassin

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This is both inaccurate, and requires a bit of perspective. Pirlo still hasn’t got the sack, and he even inherited a 8-in-a-row team. Koeman is still in charge at Barca, after a season waaaay below their “standards” (so far). Gattusso stayed for one and a half season at Milan, and deservedly got the sack, but only after failing to qualify for the CL.

Ole finished third last year, and is in second place right now. He’s not done as bad as half of this place makes it seem like, and probably not as well as a third of this place makes it seem like. I don’t really see why he should get the sack right now, as I believe he’s shown more positives than negatives, and that we have improved drastically in a a lot of areas.

Of course, should this team implode and we fail in every competition, he should get the sack. But I still think that’s a highly unlikely scenario.
He shouldn't get sacked right now. But at the end if this season of we have a pitiful points total and don't win a trophy we should call it a day on his reign.

Basically as things stand I'd have him closer to being gone than staying.

A competent club would be preparing for life without him imo
 

Foxbatt

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Or you know... Like Barca hiring Pep. Or Barca hiring Enrique. Or Barca hiring Cruyff. Or Madrid hiring Zidane. Or Juve hiring Pirlo. Or Juve hiring Zoff. Or Milan hiring Inzaghi. Or Milan hiring Gattusso. Or Milan hiring Capello. Or Atleti hiring Simeone. Or Chelsea hiring Lampard. Or Arsenal hiring Arteta. Or Liverpool hiring Dalglish.

In case you haven’t noticed, these hirings happen quite often. With both huge success and massive failure. But they still keep happening. A lot. It’s not something unique to Ole’s stint at Man United, far from it.
They have sacked Dalglish, Lampard when they didn't succeed.
As for Barca and Cruijff, did you know that he was already deciding the tactics on how to play even when he playing with there? As for the other players, they were world class players who were midfield generals or have won international honours and were reputed to be among the best during their time certainly as players.
 

Skåre Willoch

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They have sacked Dalglish, Lampard when they didn't succeed.
As for Barca and Cruijff, did you know that he was already deciding the tactics on how to play even when he playing with there? As for the other players, they were world class players who were midfield generals or have won international honours and were reputed to be among the best during their time certainly as players.
... and we will sack Ole if/when we don’t succeed.
 

Skåre Willoch

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Define succeed for this season?

Top 4 and no trophies better not be succeeding.

Only way that should be acceptable is if we where actually really good.
I’m comfortable with keeping him if we end 2nd. Or top 4 and a trophy. Not necessarily success, but not regression or failure either.
 

UnitedSofa

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So title or nothing then? :lol:

So when SAF went a few years without a title you’d have sacked him too?

People need to get out of the past, we simply are not the team of SAF’s era anymore.

I’d even go as far as saying if SAF came back he’d be sacked within 2 years, game has moved on since he left
 

laughtersassassin

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I’m comfortable with keeping him if we end 2nd. Or top 4 and a trophy. Not necessarily success, but not regression or failure either.
Thing about second being enough is it doesn't actually mean anything. Sure we could get second with like 73 points at this stage.

That's really just stagnation when you consider bwe had Bruno a while season.

For me for him to stay we'd want to win a trophy.

The only way I'd keep him with just a top 4 finish is if we show a remarkable improvement. I'm talking better performances, more points.better in game management from himself.

If he can't show improvements then he shouldt stay
 

laughtersassassin

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So title or nothing then? :lol:

So when SAF went a few years without a title you’d have sacked him too?

People need to get out of the past, we simply are not the team of SAF’s era anymore.

I’d even go as far as saying if SAF came back he’d be sacked within 2 years, game has moved on since he left
He has had multiple seasons to win a trophy.

The Europa this year and last we are arguably the best team. So should be able to pick up one.
 

UnitedSofa

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He has had multiple seasons to win a trophy.

The Europa this year and last we are arguably the best team. So should be able to pick up one.
“Multiple”

This is Ole’s 2nd full season and it’s not even over yet.......
 

Skåre Willoch

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So title or nothing then? :lol:

So when SAF went a few years without a title you’d have sacked him too?

People need to get out of the past, we simply are not the team of SAF’s era anymore.

I’d even go as far as saying if SAF came back he’d be sacked within 2 years, game has moved on since he left
I’m comfortable with keeping him if we end 2nd. Or top 4 and a trophy. Not necessarily success, but not regression or failure either.
Have you read any of my posts in here? I’m as vocal about keeping him and the progress I think we’ve had as anyone.
 

laughtersassassin

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“Multiple”

This is Ole’s 2nd full season and it’s not even over yet.......
Yes Im saying wait till this season is played out and see but he should be expected to win a trophy.

And in fairness he managed us for a good amount of the season before, so he has been here quite a while.
 

Womp

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So title or nothing then? :lol:

So when SAF went a few years without a title you’d have sacked him too?

People need to get out of the past, we simply are not the team of SAF’s era anymore.

I’d even go as far as saying if SAF came back he’d be sacked within 2 years, game has moved on since he left
What's funny is you lot who seem intent on keeping him creating arguments no-one is making and fabricating opinions to try and justify your faith in him. I highly doubt anyone excepts, or ever expected Ole to be even in the same realm as SAF. That isn't why people want him gone.
 

croadyman

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He shouldn't get sacked right now. But at the end if this season of we have a pitiful points total and don't win a trophy we should call it a day on his reign.

Basically as things stand I'd have him closer to being gone than staying.

A competent club would be preparing for life without him imo
We are proven to be totally incompetent when it comes to appointing managers, however no pointing in me wanting him to go because the board will toddle out that line about not being able to judge him until he has HIS team to choose from. Personally I think it would be a huge mistake to wait that long but after seeing what has come out from the club before I have accepted that will be the situation for another couple of years at least.
 

Jippy

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Jokes aside, the signs that he just wasn't good eonugh has been clear for some time now. I think people are just so desperate for one of these coaches to finally be the correct option, coupled with the fact that he's a club legend, that they tried so hard to convince themselves otherwise. I don't give a feck about the quality of the squad or that we can't compete with City. Yes, they have a better squad than us, which Ole also needs to take part of the blame for. You don't sign players like Wan Bissaka and Maguire and expect to play fast, expansive, attacking football.

What is damning though is the fact that we are over 2 years in and you could argue that if you take Bruno out of this side, we are no better than we were when he joined. That 's not the sign of a top tier coach.

This nonsense that coaching isn't important and it's all about the quality of the players needs to end. If we were playing some good stuff, seeing signs of coached attacking patterns and were being let down by individual issues - most would have far more time for him as they could place faith in what he was building. Instead, it's the complete opposite, we are far too often extremely slow, pedestrian, predictable in our play, with no real signs of collective understanding - relying on said individuals to get us out of that shite.
So what you're saying is that if he didn't do the things he did that improved us, we'd be worse off. And that is the sign of a poor coach.
Right...
 

croadyman

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So what you're saying is that if he didn't do the things he did that improved us, we'd be worse off. And that is the sign of a poor coach.
Right...
He has made improvements behind the scenes but surely it's hard to argue he is up to the level of being Utd manager
 

croadyman

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I'm not saying he is, but people using Ole's recruitment of Bruno against him somehow as a negative is frankly stupid.
He did well to persuade Bruno to join us considering how poor we have been since Fergie retired
 

TsuWave

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Please, I've had enough. Feel like Moses in Prince Of Egypt asking for my people to be liberated

 

Womp

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So what you're saying is that if he didn't do the things he did that improved us, we'd be worse off. And that is the sign of a poor coach.
Right...
Yes, because a coach is judged on his ability to coach. Not his ability at identifying talent to purchase. I didn't think I would need to explain that.

Him improving the quality of the team due to Bruno can be done by any manager. That is a natural consequence of the level of the team being improved.

For the record though, apart from AWB and Maguire which I think were terrible purchases for the price, he has done okay in regards to recruitment.

Improving the collective level of the squad through coaching and drilled patterns is where he falls well short, though
 

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Yes, because a coach is judged on his ability to coach. Not his ability at identifying talent to purchase. I didn't think I would need to explain that.

Him improving the quality of the team due to Bruno can be done by any manager. That is a natural consequence of the level of the team being improved.

For the record though, apart from AWB and Maguire which I think were terrible purchases for the price, he has done okay in regards to recruitment.

Improving the collective level of the squad through coaching and drilled patterns is where he falls well short, though
Some managers don't handle the day-to-day coaching of stuff like that. Fergie didn't, and Ole has already said he doesn't. They bring in other coaches and assistants to handle that.

The key is the manager has to set an over-riding plan and style, and then bring in the right coaches to achieve that. That's where the question mark is as the coaches we have are all very young and unproven at that aspect, and we aren't seeing much evidence towards improvement on the field.
 

DOTA

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Worrying performance. If things don't improve in the remaining league games then we won't finish top four and his time will be over, I expect. If they do improve we can finish second and have a bit of confidence for his next season in charge.

Far too early for dramatic takes, as utterly horrible a watch as that game was.
 

amolbhatia50k

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As expected, we're slowly but surely drifting into the top 4 pack. We were never going to be title challengers or going to put on a very impressive show under Ole. The club should accept that given his limited abilities as a manager he's done an okay job, settled things to an extent and now is the time for genuine quality required as a Manchester United manager. We will get nowhere by lacking ambition and playing it safe purely sue to notions of stability and tradition.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Some managers don't handle the day-to-day coaching of stuff like that. Fergie didn't, and Ole has already said he doesn't. They bring in other coaches and assistants to handle that.

The key is the manager has to set an over-riding plan and style, and then bring in the right coaches to achieve that. That's where the question mark is as the coaches we have are all very young and unproven at that aspect, and we aren't seeing much evidence towards improvement on the field.
Times have changed. We need a manager alongwith coaching staff to bring in a proper vision and ambition in terms of tactics and systems. Plus SAF was a pure genius and the greatest ever, so even if he wasn't overly specific tactically he was incredible at nearly all aspects of management.
 

DOTA

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As expected, we're slowly but surely drifting into the top 4 pack. We were never going to be title challengers or going to put on a very impressive show under Ole. The club should accept that given his limited abilities as a manager he's done an okay job, settled things to an extent and now is the time for genuine quality required as a Manchester United manager. We will get nowhere by lacking ambition and playing it safe purely sue to notions of stability and tradition.
We've gotten nowhere sacking our managers either. Not that any of them really deserved to stay but this 'grass is greener' stuff hasn't worked out yet.

There's no reason to be confident a new manager wouldn't fail like Moyes, LVG and Jose did.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Is top 4 twice with no trophies a success for Manchester United? With no more points than any other previous manager?
Absolutely not. Top 4 and minor trophies are the bare minimum at a club of Manchester United's stature. We seem to be getting top 4 this year but could easily fall out as well given our recent form. But no trophies in 2 years would be a huge problem. Moreover I think we need to make sure we realize the size and ambition of this club. Top 4 is never a success for a Manchester United. It's simply a minimum expectation that sometimes buys you more time but cannot keep doing so.
 

amolbhatia50k

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We've gotten nowhere sacking our managers either. Not that any of them really deserved to stay but this 'grass is greener' stuff hasn't worked out yet.

There's no reason to be confident a new manager wouldn't fail like Moyes, LVG and Jose did.
That's how you achieve success. By improving on the managers and players who aren't at the level to take you to your goals. It certainly doesn't happen by just sticking to someone decent/okay/goodish. It's the same with your number 9 or your manager and universally proven.

And sacking 3 managers is nothing. Managers don't last for more than 2-3 years now and hence teams have to go through many before they arrive at the right one. Sticking with one merely because you're too tired of changing managers has to be stupidest reason ever. Imagine Livepool sticking with Keegan /Hodgson because they couldn't deal with change and hence never arriving at Klopp /Rodgers
 

DOTA

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That's how you achieve success. But improving on the managers and players who aren't at the level to take you to your goals. It certainly doesn't happen by just sticking to someone decent/okay/goodish. It's the same with your number 9 or your manager and universally proven.
It isn't because every time you get a new manager that fails you have a load of players they bought that the next manager has no use for as they don't fit the new plan. It's very expensive.
 

amolbhatia50k

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It isn't because every time you get a new manager that fails you have a load of players they bought that the next manager has no use for as they don't fit the new plan. It's very expensive.
Life at the top is expensive but it depends on how well you're run.

And its not as though we're saving under Ole. 250 million or so already spent. Besides that as a reason to stick with him is quite small time.
 

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It isn't because every time you get a new manager that fails you have a load of players they bought that the next manager has no use for as they don't fit the new plan. It's very expensive.
That’s just another example of bad club management. You speak to the potential new manager and get a sense for how much potential they see in the existing squad; I am sure some great managers out there would look at this squad and think they can get something out of it with a couple of key additions. If they do, and they have a vision for the team, then that problem you described is solved.
 

Sky1981

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That’s just another example of bad club management. You speak to the potential new manager and get a sense for how much potential they see in the existing squad; I am sure some great managers out there would look at this squad and think they can get something out of it with a couple of key additions. If they do, and they have a vision for the team, then that problem you described is solved.
I dont believe that the new manager needs 11 sets of new players.

Good manager works with what they had, but 1 or 2 improvement to increase the output in the most optimum ways.

If you have a slow CB. Develop a deeper line, if winger is not the team's strength then play with 2 forwards.

All this he needs to rebuild the squad is just a punchline united fans love to peddle.

Sometimes a rebuild it necessary but never in any other top class football a manager is given a blank 3 years to rebuild. Most simply got more leeway during barren times.
 

UnofficialDevil

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Absolutely not. Top 4 and minor trophies are the bare minimum at a club of Manchester United's stature. We seem to be getting top 4 this year but could easily fall out as well given our recent form. But no trophies in 2 years would be a huge problem. Moreover I think we need to make sure we realize the size and ambition of this club. Top 4 is never a success for a Manchester United. It's simply a minimum expectation that sometimes buys you more time but cannot keep doing so.
Agree, and like I said,
Top 4 two years in a row and no trophies is not considered success for Manchester United. It would be success for Tottenham.

It might be for the Glazers though.
 

Womp

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Some managers don't handle the day-to-day coaching of stuff like that. Fergie didn't, and Ole has already said he doesn't. They bring in other coaches and assistants to handle that.

The key is the manager has to set an over-riding plan and style, and then bring in the right coaches to achieve that. That's where the question mark is as the coaches we have are all very young and unproven at that aspect, and we aren't seeing much evidence towards improvement on the field.
I agree, I've said in the past I'd be willing to give Ole more time if he was showing signs of implementing change from a coaching aspect, but I've yet to see anything of the sort so far.
 

Cloud7

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It isn't because every time you get a new manager that fails you have a load of players they bought that the next manager has no use for as they don't fit the new plan. It's very expensive.
Well the issue with that is we have this ingrained mentality that every manager that comes in needs to get an entirely new team before they can be judged. This is only ever the case at United. Every other club managers have to work with the players that are already there, and are judged thusly. We need to stop giving every manager carte blanche. That’s not a sensible way to run a club.