Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[laughtersassassin]

If we get top4, thats the first time since 12/13 that weve finished top 4 in consecutive seasons. That is improvement.
Theres no chance we get rid of him should he do that (and although were limping right now, we still have a cushion that should see us get it as it stands).

The summer will certainly be interesting as we need a cm, striker and possibly a cb. I can see us getting 1 good target and a couple of squad players though.

Well you could say that every year. So if he gets it this year he stays as it's 2 consecutive. If he gets it next year he stays as it's 3 consecutive....

Personally top 4 can be good enough depending on the context of how we are playing how far we are off etc.

But with how we play and how far we are off the main reason we are even so high up is because everyone else is also terrible.

That's shouldn't count for much

 

[dirkey]

Who would you have played with Pogba and Donny out? Is it Ole's fault Fred, Bruno and Rashford had their worst performance of the season?

Again, I said he was forced into it last night, I'm not sure if I can be clearer on that point? I'm talking about generally, his go-to, is 2 defensive mids against poor opposition.

But you could change the shape if you really wanted - not saying it's what I'd do.

 

[hubbuh]

I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.

Downplaying SAF's achievements to protect Ole is quite something.

 

[dirkey]

Who would you have played with Pogba and Donny out? Is it Ole's fault Fred, Bruno and Rashford had their worst performance of the season?

As to your 2nd point, yes. It is. He's overplayed Bruno and Rashford. The entire team was rubbish last night. That's on Ole. And he didn't do enough to change it. Waited way too long to make changes and didn't do anything that was unexpected. All like for like substitions and exactly what I predicted to my friends would happen.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Well you could say that every year. So if he gets it this year he stays as it's 2 consecutive. If he gets it next year he stays as it's 3 consecutive....

Personally top 4 can be good enough depending on the context of how we are playing how far we are off etc.

But with how we play and how far we are off the main reason we are even so high up is because everyone else is also terrible.

That's shouldn't count for much

“Ole only won the league because everyone around us was terrible not because we’re any good”

Or

“Ole isn’t good enough to get us the title, and should be sacked at the end of the season, top 4 consistently isn’t good enough”

Which one are we going for today then lads? Made your minds up yet?

 

[hubbuh]

Who would you have played with Pogba and Donny out? Is it Ole's fault Fred, Bruno and Rashford had their worst performance of the season?

Running players into the ground by playing them in virtually every single game has an effect. Bruno and Rashford look utterly shot.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Downplaying SAF's achievements to protect Ole is quite something.

If that’s how you wanna spin that, go for it

 

[hubbuh]

If that’s how you wanna spin that, go for it

I'm not spinning anything ffs you literally just said SAF winning the Scottish league was nothing special. Him winning the league with Aberdeen was the first time in 15 years that a team outside of Celtic or Rangers had won it!!

 

[Massive Spanner]

He was a good stop gap manager to fix the ruination LvG and Jose inflicted upon the squad, clear out the deadwood, promote some youngsters and leave the squad in a better position than the one he inherited. But it's always been clear we'll never win a thing under him and that any contract extension from the board is basically settling for top four finishes because they will know themselves he's not good enough to win anything either. I think the moment he fails to get a top four finish, he's gone, and deservedly so because he simply hasn't done enough in his tenure to be backed further.

Unfortunately being a club legend though it puts people and the club in a precarious position because any criticism of him is met with staunch resistance by those people who romanticize for the old Utd way rather than face the facts which are that he isn't the right man to win trophies and get us playing attractive football again.

 

[dirkey]

I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.

This is ridiculous. Breaking up the Old Firm monopoly to win the league was an absolutely sensational achievement. They were the last team not from Glasgow to win the league. 36 years ago.

But yeah, nothing special.

 

[UnitedSofa]

I'm not spinning anything ffs you literally just said SAF winning the Scottish league was nothing special. Him winning the league with Aberdeen was the first time in 15 years that a team outside of Celtic or Rangers had won it!!

So Liverpool should hire Gerrard as it's the first time in 7 years that someone other than Celtic have won it?

Or a better example would be Ranieri as he took Leicester to the title and 'broke the mould' should we say?

 

[Sylar]

Well you could say that every year. So if he gets it this year he stays as it's 2 consecutive. If he gets it next year he stays as it's 3 consecutive....

Personally top 4 can be good enough depending on the context of how we are playing how far we are off etc.

But with how we play and how far we are off the main reason we are even so high up is because everyone else is also terrible.

That's shouldn't count for much

The bolded parts are a bit of nonsense especially the second point.

But regardless, two years in a row is obviously a starting point because its the one thing that hasnt happened post Fergie. One you achieve that (and consolidate), you then look to build.

Before the season started, most would have wanted us as top 4 (most went with City, Liverpool and Chelsea finishing above us and us fighting with Spurs and Arsenal for that spot).

There are two ways to look at this right now:

Is the squad good enough to win the title? If you think its good enough, then Ole is not doing a good job, and then you have to say that the Glazers and Ed Woodward have done a fantastic job building this squad and are being let down by the manager.

Or

If you think its not good enough, then Ole has us about on par (or better than we thought we would be at), which means the manager is overachieving / on par but is being let down by the board for not helping him get a squad good enough.

People need to have a think and set their expectations based on that.

 

[dirkey]

So Liverpool should hire Gerrard as it's the first time in 7 years that someone other than Celtic have won it?

My God. I thought your comment saying what SAF did there wasn't special was one of the most ridiculous things I've read, but you've trumped it.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.

Nothing special?
Under Ferguson’s guidance, Aberdeen experienced the greatest period of success in its clubs history, winning three Scottish Premier Division titles, four Scottish Cups, and the European Cup Winners’ cup.

The Scottish league wasn't a "decent" league on par with league 2, Celtic and Rangers had already won European cups back then, have teams form “league 2” won any European cups?

Ferguson’s unprecedented achievements at Aberdeen led to managerial offers from some of the most prestigious clubs in Europe, he was already one of the most sought after managers before he signed for us.

 

[Hackman2210]

I just think Ole's tactics are as follows - 4231 and hope Bruno gets us out of the shit. He has certainly steadied the ship in terms of the squad and we are now a reasonable premier league outfit. We have been relatively injury free this season and if VVD wasnt injured i find it hard to believe Liverpool wouldnt be in 2nd place and us fighting for 3rd. So moving forward - Martial will probably leave so will Pogba. Then Ole can bring in another striker and a midfielder. Plus a few more out Jones, Keeper, Dalot, Linguard etc - so we will have some money knocking around to invest.
Tactically is where he worries me - I havent seen any change of tactics from him this season of ever maybe. For all the look at Luke Shaw, we can also say look at Martial and Greenwood - they have had a reversal of form under Ole. I think Greenwood has everything he looks a star in the making. How about playing Shaw, Maguire, Bailey, AWB, Pogba, McT, Fred and then Fernandes with Rashford and Greenwood up top. I think that 3rd striker makes us unbalanced. Piss poor lst night, not much better against Chelsea and shite against Real Sociedad. Needs to improve urgently. We are only 2nd cos there is a curse over Liverpools back 4.

 

[hubbuh]

So Liverpool should hire Gerrard as it's the first time in 7 years that someone other than Celtic have won it?

Or a better example would be Ranieri as he took Leicester to the title and 'broke the mould' should we say?

fecking hell, you obviously know absolutely feck all about what SAF achieved at Aberdeen. Really showing your ignorance mate.

 

[laughtersassassin]

The bolded parts are a bit of nonsense especially the second point.

But regardless, two years in a row is obviously a starting point because its the one thing that hasnt happened post Fergie. One you achieve that (and consolidate), you then look to build.

Before the season started, most would have wanted us as top 4 (most went with City, Liverpool and Chelsea finishing above us and us fighting with Spurs and Arsenal for that spot).

There are two ways to look at this right now:

Is the squad good enough to win the title? If you think its good enough, then Ole is not doing a good job, and then you have to say that the Glazers and Ed Woodward have done a fantastic job building this squad and are being let down by the manager.

Or

If you think its not good enough, then Ole has us about on par (or better than we thought we would be at), which means the manager is overachieving / on par but is being let down by the board for not helping him get a squad good enough.

People need to have a think and set their expectations based on that.

Your completely ignoring context though. Your point is simply too 4 good but it's not that simple.

When we where second and first in Jane we where doing very good.

Since then we have won 3 games. We could continue bout current form and probably still make top 4.

Then your ask yourself is that that good? No it isn't.

Anyway im not Ole out. I'm Ole maybe. I'll see how the season plays out. If we are going to underperform for most of the rest of the season he'll have to win a trophy trophy for me.

If we see a noticeable improvement of how we play and Oles in game management them yes maybe top 2 or 3 should be enough to stay

Context matters. It's not black and white.

 

[Roboc7]

The bolded parts are a bit of nonsense especially the second point.

But regardless, two years in a row is obviously a starting point because its the one thing that hasnt happened post Fergie. One you achieve that (and consolidate), you then look to build.

Before the season started, most would have wanted us as top 4 (most went with City, Liverpool and Chelsea finishing above us and us fighting with Spurs and Arsenal for that spot).

There are two ways to look at this right now:

Is the squad good enough to win the title? If you think its good enough, then Ole is not doing a good job, and then you have to say that the Glazers and Ed Woodward have done a fantastic job building this squad and are being let down by the manager.

Or

If you think its not good enough, then Ole has us about on par (or better than we thought we would be at), which means the manager is overachieving / on par but is being let down by the board for not helping him get a squad good enough.

People need to have a think and set their expectations based on that.

Ole is just carrying on from all the other managers post SAF, some things are better, some aren’t but overall not much difference.

We’ll continue just battling for top 4 until we miss out and then Ole gets sacked, then we start over again.

 

[Jeppers7]

If that’s how you wanna spin that, go for it

There’s no other way of spinning that

 

[SuperiorXI]

Why did it take so long to bring a sub on last night? That game was crying out for an injection of desire, it was clear the HT team talk didn't work 5 minutes into the second half but we didn't see a sub until 60+ minutes again!

 

[Jeppers7]

This is ridiculous. Breaking up the Old Firm monopoly to win the league was an absolutely sensational achievement. They were the last team not from Glasgow to win the league. 36 years ago.

But yeah, nothing special.

I actually think what SAF did at Aberdeen is his greatest achievement

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

it’s nothing special.

feck me is this one of the worst posts of the decade already?
When was the last time a team aside from the old firm won a Scottish title, and when was the last time a Scottish team was winning European trophies?
I’ll tell you when, 19 eighty fecking four. That’s right almost 40 years ago and it was Fergie who did it.
“Nothing special”... my fecking lord.
The clue is there, the Scottish league was much stronger back then and breaking up that old firm was incredible.

During the time Fergie was Aberdeen, Scottish clubs made two quarter-finals and one semi-final of the European cup. How many league two teams have made it to the quarter-finals or semifinals of the European cup?

 

[Andycoleno9]

This can end as very good season and total debacle. In PL we are 12 points from Spurs who are 8th but have two games to play (so can be six). We are still to play with City, Liverpool, Leicester and Spurs. So we can end 2nd and 8th.
We can also win two cups and end without trophy.
This will be the most important 3 months in Ole's career.

 

[Giggsyking]

Not sure which thread is best suited for this point, I will just put it here.

We used to consider 2nd position as a failure for 3 decades, it's not because "We are fecking ManUtd", it's because we had manager who was relentless in winning games and didn't accept anything but the best. That's the expectations. Now we have manager (and managers before him) who have managed to lower the expectations and somehow made fight for top 4 as our ambition and realistic expectation.

Now guess which team sees 2nd as a failure? Yes, ManCity and they have set certain standards and doing/did everything to achieve that. While we are just waiting for something magical to happen and fall everything into the place without much effort.

We need either a team of great players and good manager to win the league (like in Barca case) or we need team of very good players with great manager to win the league (like Klopp). Is Ole capable of that? In my honest opinion, No. This is his level, fighting for top 4, good run of form followed by terrible form. Something you expect from top 4 competing team.

For me everything starts from manager. People can talk about board all they want but they have invested money and if i'm not wrong only City have spent more than us. Team is nothing but reflection of manager, what you see on the pitch is the image of coach and how he wants his team to play. We are terrible to watch (except few games) because that's how we are set up, relying on quick transitions and direct passes. Most of the times it won't work and our players look clueless on the pitch.

In short, we should move on at least in the next season and hire a manager who can take us to the next level .

This.

 

[Sylar]

Your completely ignoring context though. Your point is simply too 4 good but it's not that simple.

When we where second and first in Jane we where doing very good.

Since then we have won 3 games. We could continue bout current form and probably still make top 4.

Then your ask yourself is that that good? No it isn't.

Anyway im not Ole out. I'm Ole maybe. I'll see how the season plays out. If we are going to underperform for most of the rest of the season he'll have to win a trophy trophy for me.

If we see a noticeable improvement of how we play and Oles in game management them yes maybe top 2 or 3 should be enough to stay

Context matters. It's not black and white.

But its a matter of the squad too. I think Ole takes partial blame in his management, but I honestly dont think the squad is good enough to go beyond top 4. We were top, but how many expected us to maintain it? And we are still in Second in March. I do think hes a limited coach in terms of setting us up to play, but I knew that before the season started, it wasnt a surprise. I think if the board / management really wanted to back Ole, they would have tried harder to get the players he wanted and invested.

Ole is just carrying on from all the other managers post SAF, some things are better, some aren’t but overall not much difference.

We’ll continue just battling for top 4 until we miss out and then Ole gets sacked, then we start over again.

Well, if we get top4 again, in terms of league, its much better than coming 4 and 5th (LVG) or 7th (moyes), or 6th, 2nd and then being 8th? (Jose) and fired?
Coming third and then top 4 again, and a number of semi finals reflects this squad IMO.

I agree with your point, but the one thing I think is that if Ole misses out and we get a new manager, it wont be a total restart and it would be more a continuation of what Ole has done in terms of the types of players hes trying to get in.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

This can end as very good season and total debacle. In PL we are 12 points from Spurs who are 8th but have two games to play (so can be six). We are still to play with City, Liverpool, Leicester and Spurs. So we can end 2nd and 8th.
We can also win two cups and end without trophy.
This will be the most important 3 months in Ole's career.

Buckle up, lads!

 

[laughtersassassin]

But its a matter of the squad too. I think Ole takes partial blame in his management, but I honestly dont think the squad is good enough to go beyond top 4. We were top, but how many expected us to maintain it? And we are still in Second in March. I do think hes a limited coach in terms of setting us up to play, but I knew that before the season started, it wasnt a surprise. I think if the board / management really wanted to back Ole, they would have tried harder to get the players he wanted and invested.



Well, if we get top4 again, in terms of league, its much better than coming 4 and 5th (LVG) or 7th (moyes), or 6th, 2nd and then being 8th? (Jose) and fired?
Coming third and then top 4 again, and a number of semi finals reflects this squad IMO.

I agree with your point, but the one thing I think is that if Ole misses out and we get a new manager, it wont be a total restart and it would be more a continuation of what Ole has done in terms of the types of players hes trying to get in.

It's good enough to win the occasional trophy. Especially Europa as last season and this season we are arguably the best team in it

 

[amolbhatia50k]

feck me is this one of the worst posts of the decade already?
When was the last time a team aside from the old firm won a Scottish title, and when was the last time a Scottish team was winning European trophies?
I’ll tell you when, 19 eighty fecking four. That’s right almost 40 years ago and it was Fergie who did it.
“Nothing special”... my fecking lord.
The clue is there, the Scottish league was much stronger back then and breaking up that old firm was incredible.

During the time Fergie was Aberdeen, Scottish clubs made two quarter-finals and one semi-final of the European cup. How many league two teams have made it to the quarter-finals or semifinals of the European cup?

That was just such a woeful post.

 

[Jippy]

Yes, because a coach is judged on his ability to coach. Not his ability at identifying talent to purchase. I didn't think I would need to explain that.

Him improving the quality of the team due to Bruno can be done by any manager. That is a natural consequence of the level of the team being improved.

For the record though, apart from AWB and Maguire which I think were terrible purchases for the price, he has done okay in regards to recruitment.

Improving the collective level of the squad through coaching and drilled patterns is where he falls well short, though

Yes sure, every big signing is a big success and anyone could've taken a punt on Bruno but didn't, he saw something. Given SAF barely did any coaching, it's clearly not all a manager is judged on. The squad lacks depth and we need a clinical striker. For what it's worth I think Ole has steadied the ship, improved the squad and therefore made significant progress. We probably do need someone else to take us on a further step. I do find it laughable that some claim to be experts on coaching and what is being taught when no-one has a clue though. 'We're undercoached' has been the Caf meme of the year.

 

[Sylar]

This can end as very good season and total debacle. In PL we are 12 points from Spurs who are 8th but have two games to play (so can be six). We are still to play with City, Liverpool, Leicester and Spurs. So we can end 2nd and 8th.
We can also win two cups and end without trophy.
This will be the most important 3 months in Ole's career.

His first real test.

It's good enough to win the occasional trophy. Especially Europa as last season and this season we are arguably the best team in it

Maybe but you also need luck along the way for that. But i wont disagree, I just dont think its good enough if were challenging for other trophies. It does seem like one that will go a certain distance and then have a hiccup due to issues with trying to compete on all fronts or fatigue.

 

[Roboc7]

But its a matter of the squad too. I think Ole takes partial blame in his management, but I honestly dont think the squad is good enough to go beyond top 4. We were top, but how many expected us to maintain it? And we are still in Second in March. I do think hes a limited coach in terms of setting us up to play, but I knew that before the season started, it wasnt a surprise. I think if the board / management really wanted to back Ole, they would have tried harder to get the players he wanted and invested.



Well, if we get top4 again, in terms of league, its much better than coming 4 and 5th (LVG) or 7th (moyes), or 6th, 2nd and then being 8th? (Jose) and fired?
Coming third and then top 4 again, and a number of semi finals reflects this squad IMO.

I agree with your point, but the one thing I think is that if Ole misses out and we get a new manager, it wont be a total restart and it would be more a continuation of what Ole has done in terms of the types of players hes trying to get in.

The type of player we are trying to sign has little to do with Ole, it’s one of big reasons it all went pear shaped with Mourinho. That will continue regardless who the manager is.

When you look at our points tally now and what’s it’s likely end up as we’re give or take where we’ve always been.Sometimes it’ll be good enough for top four, sometimes it won’t. We’re treading water, and finishing in top four to make up numbers in the Champion’s League makes little difference other than manager keeping his job and owners getting some more revenue.

 

[Giggsyking]

Im disappointed in how risk adverse he is at the moment. For someone who played in the sides he played in and understands the notion of attacking. It’s alarming how little we’ve gone all out to win games recently.

I watched two games on Sky Sports today, both against Spurs. We lost one 3-2 but for most of the second half we had Rooney, van Persie, Kagawa, Nani and Scholes all on the pitch and Rafael and Evra were basically wingers. The other one was 5-2, Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez, Scholes all on the pitch at the same time to try and win the game.

That comment he made about already having attackers on, it’s like he didn’t even consider the thought of just putting on more attackers for defenders or defensive midfielders. Just fecking go for it!

He did not putan attacking player on instead for a defensive because simply he is a coward. Going from the adventurous sir Alex to the cowardly managers that came after him is really sad.

 

[laughtersassassin]

His first real test.


Maybe but you also need luck along the way for that. But i wont disagree, I just dont think its good enough if were challenging for other trophies. It does seem like one that will go a certain distance and then have a hiccup due to issues with trying to compete on all fronts or fatigue.

I'm no Jose fan but right now what we have is very similar points totals, worse in cup competitions but play better football and don't have a toxic manager.

It's a miniscule improvement at most which is why if nothing changes between now and the end of the season I'd see no good reason to continue with it personally.

 

[Sylar]

The type of player we are trying to sign has little to do with Ole, it’s one of big reasons it all went pear shaped with Mourinho. That will continue regardless who the manager is.

When you look at our points tally now and what’s it’s likely end up as we’re give or take where we’ve always been.Sometimes it’ll be good enough for top four, sometimes it won’t. We’re treading water, and finishing in top four to make up numbers in the Champion’s League makes little difference other than manager keeping his job and owners getting some more revenue.

I get what youre saying.

But im saying what we want vs what owners want is different. Theres no way Ole gets sacked for finishing top 4 again (so talk of him not being here next season is nuts). But in terms of the players, I think theres a understanding between Ed and Ole that we go for younger players who are hungry and can improve here. So we will go for that for the next manager.

 

[Sylar]

I'm no Jose fan but right now what we have is very similar points totals, worse in cup competitions but play better football and don't have a toxic manager.

It's a miniscule improvement at most which is why if nothing changes between now and the end if the season I'd see no good reason to continue with it personally.

Sure, but we know that wont matter because top 4 is seen as a 'trophy' as sad as it is.
I said in another thread, id rather we come 8th and win Europa as opposed to coming second.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The bolded parts are a bit of nonsense especially the second point.

But regardless, two years in a row is obviously a starting point because its the one thing that hasnt happened post Fergie. One you achieve that (and consolidate), you then look to build.

Before the season started, most would have wanted us as top 4 (most went with City, Liverpool and Chelsea finishing above us and us fighting with Spurs and Arsenal for that spot).

There are two ways to look at this right now:

Is the squad good enough to win the title? If you think its good enough, then Ole is not doing a good job, and then you have to say that the Glazers and Ed Woodward have done a fantastic job building this squad and are being let down by the manager.

Or

If you think its not good enough, then Ole has us about on par (or better than we thought we would be at), which means the manager is overachieving / on par but is being let down by the board for not helping him get a squad good enough.

People need to have a think and set their expectations based on that.

Erm yeah, they erm definitely aren’t the only two ways to look at it.

 

[Giggsyking]

So Liverpool should hire Gerrard as it's the first time in 7 years that someone other than Celtic have won it?

Or a better example would be Ranieri as he took Leicester to the title and 'broke the mould' should we say?

Ranieri is 10 times the manager Ole will ever be.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

fecking hell, you obviously know absolutely feck all about what SAF achieved at Aberdeen. Really showing your ignorance mate.

There are a lot of people who don't have a clue about his career before United. I've seen some idiots on twitter that thought he was an average Scottish manager before joining United.

His achievements with Aberdeen deserves much more respect.

 

[Sky1981]

Sure, but we know that wont matter because top 4 is seen as a 'trophy' as sad as it is.
I said in another thread, id rather we come 8th and win Europa as opposed to coming second.

Top 4 is only as good as who's the manager. If he's a fan favorite then it's a progress. If it's jose 2nd is a failure

 

[laughtersassassin]

Sure, but we know that wont matter because top 4 is seen as a 'trophy' as sad as it is.
I said in another thread, id rather we come 8th and win Europa as opposed to coming second.

Agreed. Sure Jose's best season we came sixth and won two trophies.

I don't give a feck that we came second and lost a final in the next one. That is much more a failure when you look back.