Hypothesis, no proof. I would also say he will win the league comfortably with this united squad. Specially that city does not have him anymore.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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He'd have to spend over £1b to get this team to play anywhere near the football he wants them to. Just ask yourself how many United players get in the City team. Maguire, Bruno, Rashford. Maybe Fred. He would want the rest to be replaced
No. The reason Pep is successful is because of the squad he inherited and the players he has added to it are animprovement. The squads backup have backups. This united squad doesn’t win the league comfortably with Pep. More than One injury to a first team and the whole thing goes sideways.
I really don't care how we won it. The team might have looked like it was coached by Sam Allerdyce but feck it, we won 2-0 against City, in their stadium and honestly I don't care about how dirty or ugly we beat them, a win is a win. Let's not forget you can win a CL with football like that, Chelsea proofed it.
Tbh, I wouldn't even class that first summer as a good one. We only got Maguire in because we sold Lukaku, who in turn didn't get replaced. We also had a massive need for a midfielder because we had to let go of arguably our most influential player there (Herrera), and that's before we even consider that Fellaini was sold 6 months before.
In both instances we had to go without any incomings to replace those players for the first six months, and in the case of the latter it was Ighalo who came in. A proper board would have replaced those players, especially since we had extra income come in to the accounts from the sales. I said it at the time, but it has seemingly been forgotten by many in aftermath, but Ole took a massive risk going into last season with the team that he did. The vast majority of whom were either squad players under Jose, or players who Jose had sidelined and scapegoated. Getting 3rd with that bunch, is a good to great achievement IMO. Sustaining the progression with what is essentially the same team in a massively condensed season like this one, is even better.
He got 3rd in his first season with an objectively better squad. If you don't think that, then maybe this forum and the sport of football isn't for you babe.
Have to agree. McTominay, Fred, centre back pairing and Dan James just aren't good enough for even a top four side. Newcastle level really. Need a centre back, defensive mid, and right winger before we can challenge for the title.
Hes a freak who goes on reddit and impersonates people. I'm being serious when I say he has problems.
Yep. Didn't we just score 2 against the best defense in the league. We're still gonna come up short against stacked defenses every now and again because most teams do and because we're short enough technically exceptional players.
City have,
De Bruyne
Foden
Silva
Mahrez
Sterling
Aguero
Jesus
Cancelo
Gundogan
and even they struggle sometimes.
It's very little to do with patterns styles or any of that crap. It's about talent and they have way more.
We've got a team and a manager to be proud of though and we're a Jack Grealish away from really competing in my opinion.
There can’t be a single Man United fan that truly believes a squad that had just finished second with 81 points was worse than a squad that had just finished 6th with 69 points.
The squad LVG left had a completely washed up Rooney, a completely washed up Schweinsteiger, Morgan feck me he’s shite Schneiderlin, Memphis Depay, Fellaini etc. It was truly horrific.
As for Ole’s win-rate it’s looking good now this season after that shock win, if this sends us on to a good end of the season it’s a fantastic improvement from last.
Rashford, Fred (he wanted him), Maguire (he wanted him), Bruno, Shaw, both our goalkeepers, DVB, Pogba and most probably Greenwood. Cavani too have a big chance starting for them now they dont have a center forward.
I'm not sure Rashford would displace Sterling, though he would clearly figure in the rotation. Fred, maybe. Bruno, clearly (though allegedly they rejected him, and he'd have to succeed with a less risk-oriented style than he's allowed at United). Shaw, probably, at least right now. GKs sure, but they would be on the bench. Pogba, if he was able to adapt to the system. Greenwood, I don't think would get off the bench much at this stage. Cavani might get some time due to Aguero's injury, but it's hard to imagine them signing him in the first place.
Sadly, the poster I have debated with for weeks, thinks this squad should be toe to toe with City despite the difference in depth, which is ridiculous. We used to have this depth from about 1998-2013 and it helped us win shedloads of trophies.
His most expensive player is 65m. Many of his players are not even above 20m like Torres and Gundugan. He buys as much as we do. Nobody forced Ole to spend 80m on Maguire (I like Maguire) while Dias was available for ½ that price. I think Pep would do few changes to this united squad in and the second season he would be a champion.
People have to stop just throwing stuff like this out there. They are both far better than Newcastle level.
Both Fred and McSauce are very good squad options/role players for Manchester United, but they might not be the desired level to start every game if we want to win the league, or the types of players we really need (passing DM).
I actually think McTominay still has the potential to become a very, very good box-to-box midfielder, and that he will stay at the club for 10+ more years. Not necessarily as a starter for those 10 years, but play an important role in our squad.
Jesse Lingard was "barely championship level". Look at him now. Ole is "barely a championship manager". Yet here we are.
I am pretty sure there are no rules on how to support a sport or a football club. I love to see the club win titles, you are happy with less, its fine. His 3rd position was in his second season. He took over in december and had 6 months before the start of the next season, so you cant call it a "first season". It was not impressive as we did not win any trophy and bottled 3 semi finals. But sure It was enough to give him a chance for a another season. What are the ambitions for this season (after finishing 3rd with no trophies)? a major title? a good run in the CL? FA cup with second league position? Every Ole supporter have give him too much leeway and lower the expectations for the season. From day one of this season my expectation was to win the title or at least challenge. It is also what our leaders in the squad say every day in the press conferences, we want to win titles this year, that is why we are here. Dont be overreactive because other fans wants titles after (2 years and 4 months in his job).
He buys quite a bit more than we do, actually. Since his arrival he's outspent everyone in the league.
He's actually spent £172m more than Manchester United since 16/17, and while you might think otherwise, I think that's quite a big difference.
Especially when you consider the players already in the team when he took over.
Give Ole £172m this summer, and I'm sure we can make some decent acquisitions.
Or even better, give him the £172m we're already behind, and match City's spend this summer as well. Then we're talking!
City will spend another £200m this summer. We'll spend what... half? At least that seems to be the general consensus, that we are (again) in for a moderate summer spending wise.
The myth about us and City being equal in regards to spending has to die.
Just because Jesse lingard is playing well at West Ham doesn't mean he should play for Manchester United. Lingard wouldn't even be on Manchester City's bench who we are trying to overtake to win titles. Also yes McTominay or Fred might be fine as squad players but they aren't the desired quality to be a starter. McTominay isn't a good passer, isn't good at controlling the ball and doesn't make many quick forward passes. Fred's control and passing isn't that great either. So as you said they are squad options/role players plus we having an aging Matic. We absolutely need a quality defensive mid as we don't have one.
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For some people supporting a football club is ALL About the success, no matter what!
I feel a little sorry for that type of fan
I feel a little sorry for that type of fan
Yep. Wasn'texpectinga title challenge this season. For me we need a pacy centre back who can stay fit, a defensive mid, and a right winger to just compete. I would go as far as maybe a striker too but those positions are where we are really lacking so should get those positions sorted first. Then worry about a striker.
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What? Really? If anything, you need to manage your own expectations, mate.
After the summer window, I think the overall consensus was that we were in for a tough, tough season, with another massive battle for 4th.
You might've expected otherwise, but then again, that's entirely on you, and I think most would agree that it is/was quite unrealistic.
But "Oh, how the standards have fallen, we're Manchester United!!!!!". Right?
Got his tactics absolutely spot on yesterday. I really enjoyed the game, despite City having a lot of the ball and creating a few half chances. I was excited to see us turn over the ball and hit them on the counter throughout the whole game and everyone watching could sense the threat we held, including the City team and coaches. Well done, Ole. Fantastic performance.
I obviously agree that Lingard shouldn't play for Manchester United. I have never said otherwise. I just pointed out that he's a lot better than "barely championship level", to illustrate how silly it is to say McTominay and Fred are Newcastle level. They are not. If they were playing for Newcastle they'd both be the Magpies best players, and would be gone in the summer for big money.
Ah yeah it was time for Lingard to go. I see your point there. Fred and McTominay could be a starter but just not at a top four club I don't think.
Agreed. To be fair i dont think we had a particularly bad window this summer as we somehow managed to add depth, experience and young prospects for a pretty modest sum, but our top level did not improve at all and i dont think anyone can argue we gained any ground on City/Liverpool in terms of first XI strength
There were a few unanswered questions about the squad at the end of last season and honestly i think there are just as many if not more now. Is De Gea past it? Do we need a CB? Do we need a new DM? Is Martial going to be this inconsitent for all eternity? Is Pogba leaving?
Depending on what you answer, we still need 2-4 top class players to match City imo
It was refreshing to see us go on the front foot again. We sat back at times, which is natural considering the quality that City have, but we pressed and pushed them and generally took the initiative. We did the same against Chelsea as well, so it seems to be a shift in how we tackle these games (as opposed to shutting up shop and going in with a "just don't lose" mentality).
We were good value for the win, but we were a bit fortunate as well I thought. Our attack is still lacking bite, it could easily have turned out like the Chelsea game again. Glad that our defence is looking a bit more solid lately though, dare I say it Henderson could be having an influence there.
We were good value for the win, but we were a bit fortunate as well I thought. Our attack is still lacking bite, it could easily have turned out like the Chelsea game again. Glad that our defence is looking a bit more solid lately though, dare I say it Henderson could be having an influence there.
Yeah like he won with City before he could build his own team there.
No sane person should have expected a title challenge as a realistic goal this season. If that was the goal you had on your mind that just means you are out of sync with reality.
To comfortably finish top 4 is pretty much on par with a realistic expectation for this squad, or possibly even slightly above it.
Nobody lowered their expectations for this season. You'd have to be absolutely insane to expect this squad to win the league. I expect him to in 2-3 years build a team that can challenge for the league, not instantly, that's just not realistic at all.
He didn't take over that squad though did he?
He took over the squad that was 11 points off 4th and nearer to the relegation places in terms of points than they were to the top. At the end of that season he promptly took a sledgehammer to it and sold/let go that Jose team's starting: RB (Valencia), CB (Smalling), CM (Herrera), RW (Sanchez), and ST (Lukaku). He then eventually marginalised (and eventually sold in the case of the former) the starting LB (Young) and DM (Matic) too. While then making further sales like Darmian, in addition to the earlier sale of Fellaini, and even further marginalising Rojo and Jones with a view to selling the both of them.
What Ole got in return was Maguire and AWB, and a back up winger in James to start with and then an emergency loan for Ighalo and the missing piece Bruno 6 months later. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things when you consider who he let go/sold. So he instead built around players who either Jose didn't want (Martial, Pogba, Fred, Shaw) or players he didn't particularly rate highly or thought were squad players (McTominay, Rashford, Lingard) in addition to the young players who Jose never really gave much of a chance to like Axel and Pereira.
It really wasn't the same squad at all last season and I maintain that getting top 4 with that team was a good to great achievement from Ole last season, and to sustain the progress and improve it to the extent that we have 12 more points than we had at the same stage last season, is even better.
You're deluded.
Thought we were the better side for most of the game tbh. We were sitting far too deep before half time and they were putting us under pressure. But we started the second half well and once we got the second, I didn't see them getting back into it. Shaw was outstanding and City couldn't handle him at all which resulted in Walker coming on.
City finished 2nd on 81 points last year, now they are on 65 with 10 to spare... Meaning they will probably finish on 85-88 points this year which is a reasonable improvement considering the investment and the fact they underperformed last year.
We finished on 66, now we are on pace for 73, probably will get to around 70-72 but the league is considerably deeper and stronger I feel, definitely around the mid-table. That's a reasonable improvement. I would have probably wanted us to be in the 75-80 range finally but it's fine for now.
Our creative midfielders + attack is basically Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood... then James as the next backup. That is just not good enough. City have KDB, Mahrez, Sterling, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus, Gundogan, Torres who can provide attacking returns (Aguero is out injured so I'm not counting him). Not only that but they've also been allowed to basically try every available defender in the world and replace them with 50m-60m players when they don't work out, no wonder their defence has been so strong.
City's big 'strength' has been their ability to just replace any player that doesn't work out immediately. We don't have that luxury.
Bottom line is, expecting us to close a 15-point gap to City was not realistic especially considering they underperformed last year already and were always going to improve on that. We've gone from not making top 4 to making top 4 in the last game of season to now seemingly making top 4 quite comfortably this year (unless we fall off the cliff in the last 10 games, which can happen). Next step is to get us closer to title challenge and go further in Europe (we were extremely unlucky in CL this year). That should happen within next 2 seasons. If at the same time in 2 years we are still on 70-75 points and not close to challenging, after getting the money needed to improve our attack and defense, I'll agree that we probably will have to look at alternatives. Firing Ole now would be among the most ridiculous moves a club could make and would suggest owners are deluded thinking this team should be doing much better. That'd actually be very worrying.
The 'Ole out' posting suddenly makes a lot of sense when you realise how deluded the expectations are.
Under normal conditions I think he might have a point, but not in the middle of a very slow rebuild after two Managers with woeful recruitment. Once we get a semi decent squad (don't even think we have that yet) we can talk title expectations.
I do think he has the squad to win a cup competition though. Be that the FA Cup or Europa.
De Gea or Henderson aren’t good enough off their line or with the ball at their feet to play for city. See Joe hart. Pep’s track record with youth doesn’t bode well for Greenwood. Cavani would be bench warming like Aguero. Shaw is some sort of paradox at the moment so it’s difficult to say if he’d start or not, on current form, yes.
It’s a bit sad to be honest. I’ve been fairly down the line with Solskjaer where possible, which means I’m on the side of support him while we keep progressing, so by proxy I’m pro solskjaer. That doesn’t mean I won’t criticise him when he warrants it.
However, at the start of this season, not a single person on this forum thought we would be top of the league at Christmas and be the second best team in the league on average. To decide the manager needs sacking because we won’t win the league this season, with this squad, is about as short sighted and embarrassing as it gets for United fans. It’s spoiled entitlement at its finest.
We’re the best counter attacking team in the league, maybe even Europe. We struggle to break down teams who play a low block because we don’t have the players in midfield to unlock defences so the winners in those games always come from someone taking on 4 players and finding the back of the next, a penalty or Bruno doing something brilliant.
We’re literally a couple of players away from running the league. It’s right there, I could paint you a picture it’s that obvious.
Here's hoping the yesterday win is just a beginning of a very strong finish. Do not bottle it when it matters the most. No more meltdowns please. We are the strongest team left in the Europa League, just go all out for it. A trophy, guaranteed CL next season qualifying from Pot 1, just makes too much sense.
3 cheers for Jonno. Nail on head my friend. Nail on head
Ah stop it, your killing me.
Who does Fred, Maguire, Donny, Greenwood and old Cavani get in ahead of. Why would either of our goalkeepers get in ahead of theirs?
They also have qualities backups for all their players.
Rashford and Sterling are about the same. Same for Bruno and De Bruyne. Pogba isn't better than Gundogan and Shaw maybe nudges Zinchenko who is a very good left back
That makes 1 for us, 7 for them and , 3 ties and that's without factoring in their far better squad depth
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