Never understood that logic. You can hope and wish all you want but if the organisational structure, finance and players aren't in place, 'standards' are only some nebulous meaningless throwaway line.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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And replace him with? Surely you would have a name here
He'll have bettered it because Jose did it over 2 seasons
Also Jose's league position was 6th, 2nd and 6th when he was sacked.
Ole's was 3rd (in 2019-20 during his time), 3rd and 2nd.
If he wins Europa league, Ole's time at Manutd would be easily better than Jose's.
And that’s just on the pitch. The improvements off of it have been even more impressive imo.
Mark Hughes or Steve Bruce?
I think we need to stop with this "all planets have to align perfectly before we can judge a manager" philosophy. Other managers are able to come into less than perfect conditions and deliver. Its ridiculous how low standards have become at United.
Conte, Poch or any young competent manager. Reach out to Chelsea for help if we find ourselves unable to competently run a club properly. Seems they have the magic formula.
Such heroes not lowering their standards. Well done!
However back to reality I am shocked that a club who has finished more often outside top 4 than in top 4 since SAF retired is currently in the EL semi and not in a CL final.
If we confirm top 4 this season then it would be twice in a row for the first time since 2013. Next step will and should obviously be an improvement on that, so competing for the title.
But make no mistake, we are not going to compete with only teenagers on the bench as attacking options and Cavani is not going to be less injury prone all off a sudden. There will absolutely not be any title challenge without at least 1 quality attacking addition (Sancho or Grealish).
And that’s before I even consider a much needed DM.
However back to reality I am shocked that a club who has finished more often outside top 4 than in top 4 since SAF retired is currently in the EL semi and not in a CL final.
If we confirm top 4 this season then it would be twice in a row for the first time since 2013. Next step will and should obviously be an improvement on that, so competing for the title.
But make no mistake, we are not going to compete with only teenagers on the bench as attacking options and Cavani is not going to be less injury prone all off a sudden. There will absolutely not be any title challenge without at least 1 quality attacking addition (Sancho or Grealish).
And that’s before I even consider a much needed DM.
What magic formula? Chelsea has won the league twice, and CL once in the last 10 years. Considering you want us to sack the manager if he doesn't win the PL or the CL next year... that formula doesn't sound very magical to me.
Won't he need to win the Charity Shield too?
Thinking about the good old days? Time to move on, it's been 10 years.
And they are in yet another CL final. That's more than we can say.
I don't think its a foregone conclusion that another manager cannot do better with this team. I simply disagree with that train of thought.
And I disagree with 100% of your posts.
On one hand you're arguing that managers dont need 3-5 years to get it right, on the other hand you're recommending Poch.
I like Poch, but if you're impatient for trophies, surely he has to be the last name on that list. Also, I can pretty much guarantee that Conte's Inter will crash and burn within the next 2 seasons. The issue with him is, similar to Mou, there is an aspect of sort-termism in the sides he builds and it eventually leads to high highs and low lows.
Complains about Manager not winning anything and suggests replacing him with a Manager that is famous for winning nothing. Cool.
I am deeply hurt by that.
Your suggestions are a bit strange and totally at odds with each other. What direction do you want to go here at all?
Poch will arguably take a while to build a team and is unproven.
Conte is a short-term Mourinho type signing and no guarantee of long-term success.
I don't know where to go with the last one. Anyone, anyone competent???? I don't think anyone can successfully argue that Ole isn't competent at this stage.
This just smacks of anyone-but-Ole, to be honest, and I can't really take it seriously.
I have no idea why people keep repeating short term. Most managers these days are short term. Conte seems like an excellent manager, the only question is that he is bit of a head case. If he can come in, delivery a PL in couple of seasons and f off, I will take that anyday.
https://kwestthoughts.substack.com/p/how-long-should-a-rebuild-really
Nothing that the caf as a collective hasn't posted, but a tidy summary.
Nothing that the caf as a collective hasn't posted, but a tidy summary.
Can't be having Ole if he can't win trophies so let's get Poch instead.
Logic dieded
Logic dieded
Yeah that's the problem he's a nutcase! There's the danger of heading back into the boom(or not so boom)-bust cycle and if a manager fits the club's strategy then fair enough. At this stage, it would be a ripping up of the script and a lurch to a totally different approach.
I don't agree with swapping out the manager every two or three seasons at all.
I agree and objectively Ole has done a mediocre job. At most you might say good job if he wins the europa.
I agree there are structural problems that go beyond Ole however that is why the need for a top manager is increased. That shortcut is a more viable way unless you envision the glazers selling soon. As for the players we've gone over the money spent and number of windows he's had. I think he's had plenty of time and money, clearly some disagree.
All this talk about living in the past etc. Hope you feel the same way when Ole talks about it in every press conference.
Absolute rubbish. I clearly disagree on the mediocre job part but seriously? Winning a one-off cup final does not turn a mediocre job into a good one
I'll just leave you to it with that kind of logic.
I'm happy with him. What I don't understand is when they said we would extend his contract with or without winning the EL. I'd be happy with him extending on the condition we win the cup. Imagine if we lose the EL final to and Chelsea wins the CL then we extend Ole's contract. This place will be divided again and we'd see alot of comparisons with Chelsea and our ambitions which I would participate in
Imagine if other team does something?
We shouldn't care what Chelsea are up to, but also if you decide to renew a manager's contract because you believe in what he is doing, the result of a one-off cup final shouldn't influence the decision. If it does then you really haven't a clue what you're looking for in the first place.
Would you mind buy the club and fixing it? I assume you have a couple of billion laying around. If you don’t, why did you lower your standards in your professional life and did not earn that much?
Winning a cup competition should actually change nothing for Ole or any manager for that matter.
And that's simply because winning a cup competition is purely based on luck. Hell, look at teams Chelsea have faced in CL this year, and what we faced in GS this year. I don't think any of Sevilla, Atleti, RM and Porto are stronger than PSG (who we faced in GS) and one can argue that there isn't a lot to differentiate between the current RM side and Leipzig as well if you look at performances (RM would be slightly ahead, but the gap would be negligible). Hell, some of our EL opponents have been better than the teams Chelsea have faced in KO rounds - Milan for example.
Similarly, the teams we faced when we won EL was absolute dross. And winning then shouldn't be counted as some achievement that "We're there".
The logic is really simple - if you're not convinced by Ole so far, that's on you and some weird bias you have, and ideally EL win shouldn't be what that changes your opinion .In that case result in a single game is what is shaping your opinion
And that's simply because winning a cup competition is purely based on luck. Hell, look at teams Chelsea have faced in CL this year, and what we faced in GS this year. I don't think any of Sevilla, Atleti, RM and Porto are stronger than PSG (who we faced in GS) and one can argue that there isn't a lot to differentiate between the current RM side and Leipzig as well if you look at performances (RM would be slightly ahead, but the gap would be negligible). Hell, some of our EL opponents have been better than the teams Chelsea have faced in KO rounds - Milan for example.
Similarly, the teams we faced when we won EL was absolute dross. And winning then shouldn't be counted as some achievement that "We're there".
The logic is really simple - if you're not convinced by Ole so far, that's on you and some weird bias you have, and ideally EL win shouldn't be what that changes your opinion .In that case result in a single game is what is shaping your opinion
Nobodys opinion about Ole Is based on one game. Why are we extending his contract? It should be because we believe he can win us trophies. If by some magic we lose the EL final, that would be one final and 4 semi finals we've lost. I think there's valid reason to doubt Ole is the man to take us back to the top and I'm positive that would be the talk of the CAF and journalists if we lose this final.
I'm not talking about sacking him and he still has one full season left. If we Ole finishes his second year with 3rd, 2nd, 4 semi finals loss and a finals loss and my plan is to get back to the top I wouldn't say "Let's extend his contract!". I would say "He still has one year left on his contract, let's back him this summer and see how that goes"
Dude trophies are not the sole indicator of progress. And Cup trophies are more volatile still. I would on the other hand suggest that the fact that we've made it to 5 semi's is a signal that Ole is doing well. If we can consistently get to cup semi finals and 2nd or 3rd in the league most years I'd be pretty happy to keep Ole indefinitely because we'll win the odd league or cup every few years. I'm not a fan of the grass is greener approach and firing coaches for finishing 2nd/3rd and losing a SF. That approach may work for Chelsea, but it has never worked for United in the entire history of our club.
Yes, he's doing that with arguably a bigger rebuild after the shambles that Jose left behind. LVG for all his failings didn't leave behind a broken squad for Jose to take over. Add to that that Jose's two seasons included the following transfers: Ibra, Lukaku, Pogba, Mhiki, Matic, Bailly, Sanchez, and Lindelof.
Ole has got - Maguire, AWB, James, Bruno, Cavani, Amad, Pellestri, Van DeBeek, Telles. Apart from Bruno and Maguire - none of them can be classified as finished products.
Didn’t Jose achieve this in separate seasons? It’s not a like for like achievement in that case really
I don't think Ole's accomplishments have exceeded Mourinho's.
But if he can be on par with Mou, and show an upward ascendancy, he should stay.
Likewise if next season is terrible he should be sacked.
But if he can be on par with Mou, and show an upward ascendancy, he should stay.
Likewise if next season is terrible he should be sacked.
Seeing lots of excuses being made for the manager being in the Europa League is counter intuitive to where a club of this stature is supposed to be. Bruno's recent comments about winning the cup having less significance is true. If anything Tuchels recent developments with Chelsea for example show that managers are just as influential as high calibre players.
The only measure for success is winning silverware. Poch helped contribute to building a decent side with spurs but ultimately there needs to be something to show for it and that's where Ole needs to prove his worth.
The only measure for success is winning silverware. Poch helped contribute to building a decent side with spurs but ultimately there needs to be something to show for it and that's where Ole needs to prove his worth.
Awful, awful game from him tonight, got everything wrong, subs were atrocious, seems blind to the point of being stubborn to giving Amad a run out..losing the tie tonight is on him
For all the people who complain about Ole overplaying people, myself included, tonight's Roma game was a wake up call. Without DeGea in goal we could've gone out. That should be a lesson as to why he goes for McFred in big games. Without Shaw and Wan-Bissaka on the flanks Roma were getting around the outside at will. Its shocking that we have spent so much money and have such little depth. However, that's not really Ole's fault. At least he's managing what he's got well enough. Into the final now, hopefully he can get the trophy in Gdansk.
Really poor performance as a team. We won though so let's not be too harsh, but the defending were terrible from everyone.
Could be nerves I guess and I hope we play much better in the final. De Gea really saved us, but mostly Roma bottled a lot of chances.
Could be nerves I guess and I hope we play much better in the final. De Gea really saved us, but mostly Roma bottled a lot of chances.
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