Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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That was not pragmatic. That was Jose levels of negative. There is a difference. What was our counter plan exactly? Lump the ball to Ronaldo and hope he does something? It seemed to be.
I'd like to think there was more to the plan than "lump to Ronnie".

Any idiot could see a goal was coming. Asking your team to park a bus deeper than Newcastle did without an out ball was suicidal.
Young Boys are not even bottom table PL level ffs.
We looked like we had full control of the situation despite their superior possession stats. Sure, they had plenty of the ball, but they weren't creating much. I felt we would hold one.

Jesus, I know you love the manager, but its not hard to admit he cocked it up.

The way you typed that up, you'd have thought Ole was some kind of victim.
I love the club more than any manager or player, trust me.

I've no idea what you meant with the last sentence.
 

ThemanGiggsy

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Lot of smart people in this thread since full time. have yet to see someone say who could realistically replace him and be an upgrade.

however, today was an abomination.
 

Raven

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I agree. We should challenge for the league, I think we're leaking too many goals so far however and we will 100% get out of our CL group. We might not top the group but we will definitely go through.


No one thinks this - fans are just wanting to see some structure and possession retention, essentially not the random selection of subs that followed. It's more annoying when you see Chelsea do it against Liverpool at Anfield recently because you can see how sponge like their defence is.

Tonight, going 5 at the back was a good idea with 10 men but we simply can't play positional possession and it's not because of personnel, it's because Carrick (no 1st team coaching experience) & McKenna (no 1st team coaching experience) are leading our training sessions. I don't think I know more than football about Ole but I do think it's logical to think you can't survive that long by just sitting back and hoofing it long.
As long as we put together a serious title challenge and a good European run, I'll be content enough with Ole remaining as manager. But those are the minimum requirements. I think he'll do it and with some luck he'll nick the league as well.

Sometimes you can scrape by with 10 men, sometimes you can't, like Chelsea West Brom last season. It's a roll of the dice but 9 times out of 10 it's very, very difficult to win. I though going 5-4-0 and bringing on Lingard instead of Martial or Greenwood was absolutely mental and one of the worst decisions Ole's made in a long time.
 

Rash Decision

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I would be surprised if Conte and Ronaldo got along. I could see them getting into it on numerous occasions.

Conte is an excellent manager, but he literally implodes with every board of every club he's managed.
I agree with all that, my hope would be that Ronaldo would be professional enough to just get on with it so he can continue to win stuff in the twilight of his career. Moving for Conte would be like moving for prime Jose, I guess. We just need to be prepared to manage him, and then cut him free at the right time.

Not ideal! But all the other managers I really want are employed by rivals and I don’t know too much about the up-and-coming ones.
 

VanHaal'sRedArmy

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Regardless of going down to 10 men you don't lose to Young Boys with the squad we've got unless you're doing something unfathomable.
 

tomaldinho1

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What could he have done differently that would have assured a positive result tonight? Or better yet, what would you have done?

Before you ask, I don't know what I would have done differently. I'm just a football fan after all.
What do any of us know, we're just fans?

My take as a lowly pleb is that on the night, I thought his subs were weird but he's limited in what he can affect outside of that. Against 10 men it's always tough although this was a sub par standard of opposition. Personally I think it all starts with what many on here probably find boring which is positional possession a la LVG when in that situation, even with 10 men you have to remember it's 10 v 10 when you use the keeper correctly and then if they press and commit you go long. We were just hoofing it long as our priority which isn't really going to suit 36 year old Ronnie and it was just wave after wave of Young Boys up past their bedtime coming at us. We had a goal lead to defend against an average team, holding onto the 3 points was hard but by no means impossible, holding on for the draw was very realistic.

As long as we put together a serious title challenge and a good European run, I'll be content enough with Ole remaining as manager. But those are the minimum requirements. I think he'll do it and with some luck he'll nick the league as well.

Sometimes you can scrape by with 10 men, sometimes you can't, like Chelsea West Brom last season. It's a roll of the dice but 9 times out of 10 it's very, very difficult to win. I though going 5-4-0 and bringing on Lingard instead of Martial or Greenwood was absolutely mental and one of the worst decisions Ole's made in a long time.
Agreed on the weird subs, particularly when Martial - even out of form - has always had good back-to-goal hold up and that burst of speed Ronnie doesn't have any more. Also agreed on expectations - be in the hunt (i.e. win or a few points off title) and good CL run.
 

MadMike

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I feel like people are putting too much stock on the individual mistakes and especially Lingard’s to excuse our inept performance in the second half.

We were literally backs against the wall against YB and getting peppered. Young Boys had 8 corners, 19 shots (7 from inside the box) and created 16 chances. We had 1 corner and only 2 shots by comparison. If we had conceded another goal from one of those YB chances in the second half and not from Lingard’s individual mistake on the 95’ it would have been impossible to argue that the result was unfair based on the performance.

Therein lies the problem. Such a collapse because we lost a player against inferior opposition is not really reflecting well on the team and the manager at all.
 

Raven

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Where I disagree is that suggesting we need a better manager is 'throwing my toys out of the pram'. The thing is, these results aren't isolated. Even when we win, we far too often don't play well, simply put, that's not sustainable, as has been shown since his time here. Hell, go even further back to Jose's time here to identify that style being ineffective against managers like Klopp/Pep etc.

I agree this team is stacked but simply put, if you're not giving the fans hope with the football being played (surely no-one can watch the slow, predictable passing, lack of movement etc. and be hopeful of progressive football?) then you need to simply win. If you're not winning and also there is no identifiable signs of progressive football to place your faith in, what exactly are we waiting for? His footballing approach has been consistent since he's been here, are we suddenly going to start playing some ridiculous football 5,6,7 years into his reign out of nowhere? It's extremely unlikely.

So I agree with you, without a trophy this season, he needs to go, because simply, apart from results, we aren't getting much more from a footballing perspective at the moment. There is nothing further to wait for. He's had more time than any other manager post SAF, has also gone the longest amount of time post SAF without winning a trophy and has received more investment from the board for players too. He's been given everything. He now needs to deliver.

Credit where credit is due though, he's done incredibly well at the other aspects of management, has strengthened the squad, seemingly got everyone back on board etc.
Clearly we differ on a few points but I'm glad we can have a real discussion. Let's see how the next couple of months pan out because I still believe we're going to have a great season, obviously if we come crashing out of Europe in the group stages, that's a big red flag.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I agree with all that, my hope would be that Ronaldo would be professional enough to just get on with it so he can continue to win stuff in the twilight of his career. Moving for Conte would be like moving for prime Jose, I guess. We just need to be prepared to manage him, and then cut him free at the right time.

Not ideal! But all the other managers I really want are employed by rivals and I don’t know too much about the up-and-coming ones.
Yeah, I don't know. I could see them falling out like Rafa and Ronaldo did. The athletic article on which coaches Ronaldo fell out with was interesting to me.

I think Conte is incredible and I'm sure he'd extract a lot from this squad. My big worry is if it'll be worth it all once it goes nuclear with him at the end.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I feel like people are putting too much stock on the individual mistakes and especially Lingard’s to excuse our inept performance in the second half.

We were literally backs against the wall against YB and getting peppered. Young Boys had 8 corners, 19 shots (7 from inside the box) and created 16 chances. We had 1 corner and only 2 shots by comparison. If we had conceded another goal from one of those YB chances in the second half and not from Lingard’s individual mistake on the 95’ it would have been impossible to argue that the result was unfair based on the performance.

Therein lies the problem. Such a collapse because we lost a player against inferior opposition is not really reflecting well on the manager at all.
Yeah, people are missing the point. The loss was really bad, but the performance was even worse.

We had a man down. No one was expecting us to go score 2-3 more goals. But you would hope we would have showed more resolve and competency in the 2nd half once we settled.
 

Bastian

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This was a poor loss that was 100% because of two huge individual errors.
Seeing the harsh and over the top criticism of Ole is sad really. It’s perfectly fine with criticism but the harsh name calling etc is unworthy.
I agree that it is uncalled for. It's poor form. But what's the percentage here? I've seen loads of posts criticising him and not one of those comments. FTR I don't view "tactically clueless" as an example of such comments.
 

Rash Decision

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Yeah, I don't know. I could see them falling out like Rafa and Ronaldo did. The athletic article on which coaches Ronaldo fell out with was interesting to me.

I think Conte is incredible and I'm sure he'd extract a lot from this squad. My big worry is if it'll be worth it all once it goes nuclear with him at the end.
I haven’t seen that article so I’ll take your word for it. Ronaldo is short term though, so even if they fall out, would it necessarily be that disastrous?

Chelsea survived Conte pretty well. I’m personally warming towards the Chelsea approach, tbh.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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Unless we were first by a mile, yes. It would represent a disaster two years in a row in the Champions League. And I have been saying for a year on the podcast that I am fed up watching us be terrible in possession, both keeping it and using it sensibly. Tonight was a manifest of that in the worst example, we literally cannot keep the ball at times. 7 defeats in 11 in the Champions League is a shocking stat.

So while it might be harsh, that's the barometer for me. If we fail to make it out the group again this year, he should be sacked in my opinion.
Agreed. It’s a simple as that
 

Andycoleno9

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Lots of overreaction here. But no need for it. When we buy Rice, Trippier and Haaland, we will trash these kind of teams.
 

MadMike

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Yep this is almost exactly where I'm at, though if he doesn't get us out of the CL group I'd likely sack him immediately unless we are flying in the league.
Mmm define flying in the league? If we’re in the top 4 it’d be hard to sack him immediately. I would only sack him immediately while in the top 4, if we have our primary choice ready to come in in January.

Otherwise you’re doing half a season with an interim or settling for a lesser manager. The team might improve with an interim or it might drop out of the top 4. It’s a roll of the dice. It’s probably better to let him see out the season if the team is still in top 4 by the 8th of December when the CL group stage ends.

However if the team veers off the top 4 he should be gone. He has a team that should be challenging and being in the top 4 comfortably. Being more than 6 points out of the top by mid-season should see him sacked too.
 
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ThemanGiggsy

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Jesus. I'd rather have Graham Potter.

No really, I would.

This is my point. what manager would make us better right now? conte would be terrible, no thank you. Zidane, maybe. If Poch gets sacked at the end of year, i would agree.

it was a crap result where we played terrible, but it is the first game of group stage and we are currently top of the league.

i am a fan of Potter as well.
 

Blood Mage

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We'll have to wait and see if his luck continues in the league. He doesn't seem to have the same luck in Europe, and routinely gets shown up for being out of his depth. Being dumped into the Europa League again should result in the sack for him, but the Glazers only care about a top 4 finish.
 

Rash Decision

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I feel like people are putting too much stock on the individual mistakes and especially Lingard’s to excuse our inept performance in the second half.

We were literally backs against the wall against YB and getting peppered. Young Boys had 8 corners, 19 shots (7 from inside the box) and created 16 chances. We had 1 corner and only 2 shots by comparison. If we had conceded another goal from one of those YB chances in the second half and not from Lingard’s individual mistake on the 95’ it would have been impossible to argue that the result was unfair based on the performance.

Therein lies the problem. Such a collapse because we lost a player against inferior opposition is not really reflecting well on the team and the manager at all.
The Caf’s reactions are comically similar to those on Spurs forums after the Crystal Palace game. Some calling for Nuno’s head (after four games), some blaming the red card and individual performances, a few banging the “1 point from top of the league” drum while ignoring all performance-related stats.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I haven’t seen that article so I’ll take your word for it. Ronaldo is short term though, so even if they fall out, would it necessarily be that disastrous?

Chelsea survived Conte pretty well. I’m personally warming towards the Chelsea approach, tbh.
Some excerpts from the article:

- Yet there are plenty of others — Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benitez, Carlos Queiroz, Maurizio Sarri — whose relationship with Ronaldo broke down, or completely disintegrated in some cases, because they could not handle his ego. The golden rule is: keep him happy. But sometimes that is easier said than done.

- The first lesson, perhaps, is to indulge him. Fluff his ego, talk him up. Ronaldo needs to feel loved. He wants to be important, so treat him like a king. Let’s be honest, he already wears the look of a man who believes his face should be on a banknote.

-“Cristiano came to Carlo and said he felt more comfortable playing off the left, coming in, making passes, hitting crosses and shots. And this was one of Carlo’s greatest strengths as a coach. All he said was, ‘Well, you have to be comfortable, that’s the most important thing’. So he developed the system to help make him comfortable.”

- But maybe this is where Benitez failed when he succeeded Ancelotti at the Bernabeu in 2015: his refusal to defer to Ronaldo’s wishes.

-Benitez lasted only seven months at the Bernabeu and, shortly after he was fired, details appeared in El Pais newspaper about how he had delegated a member of staff to give Ronaldo a USB stick showing him clips about how to lose his marker.

-That story told us a lot about the relationship between manager and player.

-Ronaldo did not want to take it and sent a message back: “Tell Benitez that I’ll send him a USB drive with all my goals on it for him to study.”

Like that bit with Rafa and Ronaldo - I could see that happening with Conte and Ronaldo, but Ronaldo is short term as you say.

In general the article heaps tons of praise on his insane dedication and work ethic. Just a few tidbits that I thought were interesting.
 

Rash Decision

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Some excerpts from the article:

- Yet there are plenty of others — Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benitez, Carlos Queiroz, Maurizio Sarri — whose relationship with Ronaldo broke down, or completely disintegrated in some cases, because they could not handle his ego. The golden rule is: keep him happy. But sometimes that is easier said than done.

- The first lesson, perhaps, is to indulge him. Fluff his ego, talk him up. Ronaldo needs to feel loved. He wants to be important, so treat him like a king. Let’s be honest, he already wears the look of a man who believes his face should be on a banknote.

-“Cristiano came to Carlo and said he felt more comfortable playing off the left, coming in, making passes, hitting crosses and shots. And this was one of Carlo’s greatest strengths as a coach. All he said was, ‘Well, you have to be comfortable, that’s the most important thing’. So he developed the system to help make him comfortable.”

- But maybe this is where Benitez failed when he succeeded Ancelotti at the Bernabeu in 2015: his refusal to defer to Ronaldo’s wishes.

-Benitez lasted only seven months at the Bernabeu and, shortly after he was fired, details appeared in El Pais newspaper about how he had delegated a member of staff to give Ronaldo a USB stick showing him clips about how to lose his marker.

-That story told us a lot about the relationship between manager and player.

-Ronaldo did not want to take it and sent a message back: “Tell Benitez that I’ll send him a USB drive with all my goals on it for him to study.”

Like that bit with Rafa and Ronaldo - I could see that happening with Conte and Ronaldo, but Ronaldo is short term as you say.

In general the article heaps tons of praise on his insane dedication and work ethic. Just a few tidbits that I thought were interesting.
Thanks for sharing! It does sound like a potential problem if we were ever to hire Conte while Ronaldo’s still here. The only other big manager I can think of in that case is Zidane, in that I think he won’t impose such a rigid structure on the team. But I don’t know if Zidane’s approach is what we need.
 

VanHaal'sRedArmy

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Can we agree Ole's strength is man-management and keeping players happy?

If we break down his weaknesses it's mostly down to his game management, tactics, and training, & scouting the opposition right? The solution then is to keep what works and bolster his weaknesses with someone who can handle those tasks OGS struggles with. We can hire Villas-Boas as Ole's no.2 and he can be the Carlos Queiroz figure that keeps the squad ticking along when Ole struggles to get the best out of it.
 

babablue

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It's hard to give thoughts on Ole because opinions are so polarized, and you'll be attacked by either side no matter what you say, but here goes...

Personally, I've always been a wait and see, I like the feel good factor he's brought, and felt with enough time, we would win too. If you put a gun to my head, and I absolutely had to choose, I would be an Ole-in'er. So it pains me to say, but he's gradually losing me. I find myself thinking (fantasizing?) about what a different coach would achieve with our team more and more.

On today's match, that was not good. Even when we had 11, and I thought we were going to win handily, I still didn't think we were that good. I remember thinking this and wondering if I would be called negative if I mentioned it.
I liked the change at half time to bring on Varane, I thought we were going to play 3-4-2 or 3-4-1-1. Against young boys, that should be an even contest. I did not expect that the plan was to concede all the initiative. I would have called Mourinho a coward if he did that, it's only fair to judge Ole the same way. To add insult to injury, we still lost, so what was the point of that? Ole talks the big talk about Man United way and attacking, but I think we've seen
enough now to say that he doesn't really back it up.

At the end of the day, it's disappointing to lose, but probably not the end of the world if we make it out of the group. Given a choice, I would rather lose here than in the league. Hopefully, I won't be trying to rationalize dropping down into the europa in a few months.
 

horsechoker

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Why did he tell Lingard to play a through to Young Boys in the 95th minute?

Terrible management, I hate Norway.
 

pcaming

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Why did he tell Lingard to play a through to Young Boys in the 95th minute?

Terrible management, I hate Norway.
Here's a fun thought, the mistake was made partially cause the manager brought him on to chase nothings in attack. Then in the last few minutes of the game, a game they've been hammering at us for over an hour, decides to use him in midfield to replace the only midfielder that was doing anything defensively.

Lingard got zero sniffs, but Ole thought martial who's been in awful form would do something with the zero service anyone in attack received for over an hour. Took off our ball terrier, for whatever he's worth, and decided jessie could slut in and do something while they gave their final push to score the winner.

It's a poor mistake, in fact complete shit on his part, but I can't see many other managers making subs like that and putting him in that position in the dying stages of a game you're being battered in...
 

Canagel

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this picture is still messing with my mind. How can a manager even allow a player to stand next to him in the technical area like that ?

There is no way these man respect this manager or trust his skills, they know he isnt the guy.
 

BlueHaze

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I'm certain he'll eventually go but the thing is he'll do so without having won a single trophy. It's really a shame because as a player he truly was awesome and his loyalty to the club is unquestioned but as a manager he is nothing but mediocre.

You cannot come to Wankdorf Stadium with fecking CR7 in your side and end up losing to these lot just like they lost to that shite turkish side last year that eventually sent us to the EL.

It's just purely embarrassing. As a manager either you have that winning mentality or you don't. To me it's clear Ole doesn't and he won't win a single title I believe.
 

charlenefan

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They had 20 shots on goal before that. If we had a proper coach with such a squad, we should have easily kept possession and no let them anywhere near our goal. It was an embarrassing performance considering the talent we had on the pitch even after the red.
Cool
 

Infra-red

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Who would you replace him with though?

I have my reservations about his ability (game management today was poor) but there's no point changing for changes sake. Who do we replace him with?
I would have to see who was available at the time (this wouldn't be relevant until April/May next year at the earliest). I was previously in favour of Conte, but many of our most talented players are now wide forwards, which would not really fit with his preferred wingback system, so he would no longer be high up on my wishlist.

I think this is all ultimately moot anyway, as I don't foresee any prospect of the club dispensing with Ole provided he finishes at least 4th (and with our squad, he should certainly be capable of achieving that). He will be here for a number of years yet.
 

Bastian

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Can we agree Ole's strength is man-management and keeping players happy?

If we break down his weaknesses it's mostly down to his game management, tactics, and training, & scouting the opposition right? The solution then is to keep what works and bolster his weaknesses with someone who can handle those tasks OGS struggles with. We can hire Villas-Boas as Ole's no.2 and he can be the Carlos Queiroz figure that keeps the squad ticking along when Ole struggles to get the best out of it.
You're making this argument to make the Ole-in crowd look bad, right? All we need from a Man United manager is good man management? :lol: