But a manager cannot openly say to the press that we will run his contract down. He said the club is talking with him and his father. Of course he has to be over protective of the player especially after his midweek mare. It's common.There's a great deal of distance between openly bashing a player and trying to extend his contract, tbf. Just let it run down and let him go if we can't sell him, at this point.
Yeah, this does make sense. I guess I've just been hurt too often by unnecessary contract extensions before!But a manager cannot openly say to the press that we will run his contract down. He said the club is talking with him and his father. Of course he has to be over protective of the player especially after his midweek mare. It's common.
Ultimately what matters is what Ole does on the pitch. If he keeps on picking lingard in the starting 11 then yes the criticism will be valid.
Reports? You mean his press conference? He didn´t say that, he said he saw Lingard´s future at United. He always says that.Reports today that Ole has said United are doing everything possible to keep Lingard…
I have been Ole in up to now, but that is a sackable offence.
We scored 121 goals last year. More than anyone apart from City. That’s a lot of individual brilliance if we don’t have an attacking plan.Is there any analysts on twitter that actually shows our attempts for attacking patterns with pics or gifs ?
Till now I don't remember if we had even 1 goal that came from a well practiced chance
Seems like you are making a lot of random assumptions herePeople wanting Zidane or Conte I am sorry I just do not understand. Both are dislikeable, boring, pragmatic, self centred individuals who give zero craps about the club and will just do something similar to what Jose did, probably without the trophies to make it bareable. The fall out from one bad result is absolutely crazy, I would get it if we had just being knocked in to europa again but there’s every chance we can go and storm the group and finish top. Let’s wait and see
Other than Fergie, which manager has stayed at a top club for decades, may be Arsene Wenger I think. I personally believe that Fergie is a one off and we should move on from that model. More successful clubs than us have shown that chopping and changing top level managers while maintaining a consistent Philosophy is the way to success.Conte is a 2-3 season manager. After that he's worn everyone down and people want him gone. If you want that, that's fine. I prefer managers that could stay for decades. If not Ole, then someone else with a likeable personality.
A lot of them were on the counter attack and with a hand on our heart - can we mention a single game that we actually enjoyed and without total stress ?We scored 121 goals last year. More than anyone apart from City. That’s a lot of individual brilliance if we don’t have an attacking plan.
For younger fans or fans who care more about results than culture and heritage, I suppose that is fine.Other than Fergie, which manager has stayed at a top club for decades, may be Arsene Wenger I think. I personally believe that Fergie is a one off and we should move on from that model. More successful clubs than us have shown that chopping and changing top level managers while maintaining a consistent Philosophy is the way to success.
We are trying too hard to train Ole to be Fergie when it might not even be possible and when we have a proven way to success as other clubs with similar financial power have shown.
We know Ole isn't really taking charge of the coaching, as he's suggested on occasion, but those who do are his responsibility. Quite incredible that it's down to two guys, one of whom had no coaching background previously, and the other being a promising youth coach. A club that has probably spent half a billion since they started coaching here.Tweet
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This is fantasy.Conte is a 2-3 season manager. After that he's worn everyone down and people want him gone. If you want that, that's fine. I prefer managers that could stay for decades. If not Ole, then someone else with a likeable personality.
It's what the clubs success is built on, the entire identity of the football club.This is fantasy.
I honestly think the bolded is a big part of why Ole is heavily defended on here even with objective critiques.
People really think we'll get another SAF-type manager where he'll stay here for 20+ years.
That is a thing of the past.
That we are discussing his assistants is ridiculous. The manager is held accountable for the tactical implementation of his ideas. This is the only club where when results go wrong, we start discussing the assistant coaches.At least one of them should be replaced. Have been here longer than Ole, under different managers and theres nothing special about the result of their work.
This type of thinking led to the Moyes disaster.It's what the clubs success is built on, the entire identity of the football club.
Its preference, I dislike short term managers.
I don't think you'll find anyone that wants him to stay here for decades if he doesn't win anything.This is fantasy.
I honestly think the bolded is a big part of why Ole is heavily defended on here even with objective critiques.
People really think we'll get another SAF-type manager where he'll stay here for 20+ years.
That is a thing of the past.
When we hit teams on the counter we are lethal. It's when we have slow slow possession of the ball and need to open up teams that we show how bad we are. The positions players take up and their movement off the ball is really, really bad and we are terrible at the press.We scored 121 goals last year. More than anyone apart from City. That’s a lot of individual brilliance if we don’t have an attacking plan.
That wasn't my argument/point.I don't think you'll find anyone that wants him to stay here for decades if he doesn't win anything.
I read it on a news site so, reports.Reports? You mean his press conference? He didn´t say that, he said he saw Lingard´s future at United. He always says that.
Unfortunately this is always going to be the case Sir Alex was a mentor, he's the topic of academia with institutes having interviewed him revolved around his capabilities to manage. You won't come across individuals of such pedigree often. The biggest aspect about SAF is that he was easily the best manager in world football. This is why I'm sick and tired of hearing Sir Alex mentioned along the likes of Ole one was a specialist at winning and the very best available to lead at the highest level.For younger fans or fans who care more about results than culture and heritage, I suppose that is fine.
I've been a fan of this club throughout Sir Alex' entire tenure, dynasties and consistency is what I know and its what I like. I hate the revolving door of 2-5 year managers who come and go only to be replaced with the next uncertainty.
I'm not critical of his results, but for his brand of football.We came 3rd and 2nd in the toughest league in world football and are currently top and you want the manager out. It's laughable. Who on earth sacks a manager sitting top after 4 games? This fan base are like kids who got 10 toys at Xmas but wanted 11 so throw a tantrum.
I think you need to get used to the idea that we won't win every game and we will drop silly PTS every now and then. The most stupid thing this week has been the over reaction by people. We lost mainly due to the fact we had ten men let's be honest. We were never losing that game 11 v 11. Never in a million years.
I blame AWB far more than I blame Ole for some questionable subs. That needless challenge by AWB put us under enormous pressure.
Bad day at the office. Still think we will qualify from the group and hope we bounce back this weekend.
The Ole outers couldn't wait to come on here and moan Tuesday. Some seem to enjoy it more than when we win so their agenda can be fueled.Let's give ole at least half a season before we talk about sacking him? We still have 5 more CL games and almost an entire league season ahead of us. As long as we are competitive and challenging for the league and cups I will be happy. Talking about sacking after 1st defeat of the season is ludicrous. I am willing to give Ole more leeway because it just feels right him being the united manager. He may end up not being good enough but things are just so much better now after the nightmarish years of moyes,lvg and mourinho.
Nice to see some grown ups here.The Ole outers couldn't wait to come on here and moan Tuesday. Some seem to enjoy it more than when we win so their agenda can be fueled.
We are top of the league so have made a good start this year compared to last, squad is looking great and we only lost in Europe because of a stupid red card. The over reaction has been nothing short of embarrassing.
You really think the red card was the only problem?The Ole outers couldn't wait to come on here and moan Tuesday. Some seem to enjoy it more than when we win so their agenda can be fueled.
We are top of the league so have made a good start this year compared to last, squad is looking great and we only lost in Europe because of a stupid red card. The over reaction has been nothing short of embarrassing.
Lingard wasn't even at fault, imo. Ole's management after the red card was simply atrocious and basically begging for a goal. We were pulled in too deep, he invited too much pressure, we had zero attacking threat, couldn't even manage to hold up the ball for 5 sec before said ball being taken away. Our entire strategy relied on just hoofing it forward but we had no forward threat to hoof it to because only Ronaldo was past our half-line with no other player to combine with in sight. I can't blame Lingard for that mistake. He has no place in the club, but Ole's disastrous tactics did us in that game, not even AWB's mare. Lingard mistake was created by them basically pressing us to our goalkeeper and Lingard having virtually no passing options except De Gea which he obviously misplaced, but it would have never had come to that if Ole didn't use such cowardly tactics. The first goal we conceded was basically the same thing. His subs also didn't make any sense . VDB was our best midfielder, but he subbed him off and by doing that we could no longer even keep the ball. He subbed off all of our attacking threats for defenders - disaster class. Pogba continued to stay on despite basically giving posesssion every time he touched teh ball. All in all he didn't do a single thing right.You really think the red card was the only problem?
Compare Tuchel's set up against Liverpool. Situations are extremely alike, both they and us got a red card for the right back in the first half. Tuchel set up was great, they draw but deserved better, even had chances of scoring. While with us it was a shit show, we couldnt create a single chance and end up losing. Of course the 2nd goal has a heavy mistake from Lingard.
But just the way each manager reacted it seemed several levels apart, and we are talking about Young Boys here ffs they were playing Liverpool.
You're missing the goddamn point here, that Messi became central to Barcelona's attack even when they were more senior attackers at the club in their prime years. Samuel Eto'o was a world class CF in his pomp when he was moved to the wings to accommodate Messi. Guardiola was bold enough to do it, and ruthless enough to get rid of several key players who brought Rijkaard success. Wanking off Pep? How old are you? Thoughtless postThat's literally what every manager does. You introduce a young striker out wide and as they mature move them central so they can be more productive.
Messi was an inevitable figure in the history of the game whether Pep was there or not. Its disingenuous and pathetic to wank off Pep by crediting him with Messi's rise.
This is really boiling my piss and reminds me of Polish political culture, full of bullshit statements, strawmen and one side claiming to be the only loyal side with the other being traitors. I’m no one big at this forum, but perhaps we could consider banning / yellow carding WUMs that continuously claim there are Man United fans on this forum that wish us lose only so that “their agenda can be fueled”.The Ole outers couldn't wait to come on here and moan Tuesday. Some seem to enjoy it more than when we win so their agenda can be fueled.
We are top of the league so have made a good start this year compared to last, squad is looking great and we only lost in Europe because of a stupid red card. The over reaction has been nothing short of embarrassing.
Or maybe it was obvious so I'm not blown over by the supposed genius move?You're missing the goddamn point here, that Messi became central to Barcelona's attack even when they were more senior attackers at the club in their prime years. Samuel Eto'o was a world class CF in his pomp when he was moved to the wings to accommodate Messi. Guardiola was bold enough to do it, and ruthless enough to get rid of several key players who brought Rijkaard success. Wanking off Pep? How old are you? Thoughtless post
Good summary.I think Ole in/out discussions have become clouded by a larger philosophical battle within the United fanbase, as a result of which people often end up arguing about much more than just Ole's performance. Hear me out.
Part of the club's fanbase want nothing more than for Ole to succeed and manager Utd for the next 20 yrs. They're willing to ride the occasional bump (Sevilla, Villareal, Young Boys) because Ole is undoubtedly making progress and has improved the squad. They know that Ole's eventual success will not just be satisfying from a trophy haul perspective, it will extend SAF's legacy (one of his students successfully took up the mantle), prove the "United Way" is more than a vague unrealizable hope, and indelibly mark Man Utd as a unique club. For these fans, patience in Ole will be rewarded by a rebirth of United's soul, and act as a beacon to other clubs that want to be successful whilst sticking to their heritage and principles.
On the other hand is a group that consider highly regarded technicians managing for brief tenures as the next evolution of top-tier football. These fans see elite proven managers competing for top 4, they see Tuchel winning the CL in half a season with zero spend and ask "why not United?"; they sense the window is already closing on our potential title-winning squad (Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba could all be gone in a year) and our bid to permanently reclaim elite status. They read arguments like "Ole is doing it like Fergie did", and wonder why some fans are stuck in the past. And if Ole does leave, who's to say the next manager won't be afforded too much time, pushing us even farther behind the leading pack? To these fans, harking back to Utd's past as a validation of our current process is to ignore the march of time and a future in which United could be rendered irrelevant. Taking this perspective to its logical end, SAF, despite carrying Man Utd to the peak of club football, could indirectly result in the club's eventual undoing.
It's impossible to discuss our current managerial and coaching situation without first understanding where one lies on the above spectrum, because one's perspective heavily informs the set of appropriate corrective measures. I expect this war over Utd's ethos to divide the fanbase further, and to lead to even stronger disagreements about Ole's future.
Understand your sentiment and it's wrong to accuse someone of wanting United to fail but the bolded bit above is just inaccurate, isn't it? I mean, he's literally done every one of those things in his time here, even if he's made quite a few glaring errors along the way.This is really boiling my piss and reminds me of Polish political culture, full of bullshit statements, strawmen and one side claiming to be the only loyal side with the other being traitors. I’m no one big at this forum, but perhaps we could consider banning / yellow carding WUMs that continuously claim there are Man United fans on this forum that wish us lose only so that “their agenda can be fueled”.
I tell you this mate - I’ve been Ole outer for a long while now, mainly because I believe United deserves a manager recruited on merit rather than on his status within the club. Do I think this man will lead us to glory? No, because he hasn’t shown anything to make me believe he can win against top managers, nothing to convince me he has deep tactical understand of the game and I am very much convinced he is not making our squad better and not providing much value added. Does it mean I’d rather see us lose to be “proven right”? Obviously fecking no, I’d much rather have to swallow my pride and to be proven wrong. There’s not a single United fan that wants to see the team fail, so really let’s stop with this lunacy.
I guess it’s up to discussion. One can believe Ole can consistently go toe-to-toe with other managers with comparable squads, the other might think he lacks some talent and skills other managers have. And we can discuss that - without claims that the guy who doesn’t like Ole’s tactical approach wants to see United doomed.Understand your sentiment and it's wrong to accuse someone of wanting United to fail but the bolded bit above is just inaccurate, isn't it? I mean, he's literally done every one of those things in his time here, even if he's made quite a few glaring errors along the way.
Why?This is fantasy.
I honestly think the bolded is a big part of why Ole is heavily defended on here even with objective critiques.
People really think we'll get another SAF-type manager where he'll stay here for 20+ years.
That is a thing of the past.
