Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Leftback99

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If Ole had taken over after SAF instead of Moyes we'd have very likely won a title by now simply because he wouldn't have destroyed the squad and bought all of the dross that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho did.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Yeah fine it's doable but if we got 90 points it would be a great achievement. I reckon only about 7 or 8 teams have ever done it in the history of the English game. It takes an amazing level of ability to win almost 30 of 38 games, especially when the league has 6 games against some of the best teams in the world.

I was pointing out and ridiculing, the entitled attitude that demands that this be the bare minimum that could be expected. Basically we have to beat everybody twice and only drop points against the top 6. Like I said, it can be done but to demand it, is not respectable.
I'm with you on those with the entitled attitudes, but again, assuming any of the other 3 favorites go on a consistent run of results throughout the season, we should try to compete and challenge such team, it's the expectation this season, of course we shouldn't demand a PL title win here, but at least we should demand a challenge of some sort, and to challenge, we simply need to be consistent this season.
 

e.cantona

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What the feck do people want. Left with the squad he was and improved it as he has, with youth/experience/depth/world class/etc. Competing vs a freak Liverpool under Klopp and money doped City and Chelsea. He's done pretty well so far and we're now, as expected, likely to compete for titles.
 

DeGea

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We dont need to beat City, Chelsea or Liverpool away to win the title. We just need to win all of our other games. There is more than one way to skin a cat. When you look at it like this, it feels completely doable.
 

Andersonson

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This is just your bias which is stopping from accepting the fact... in fact even Moyes is twice the manager Ole is. Give Ole a team like West ham and see what he does with it. Ole's level is Norwegian league, that's about it.
Do you think a manager that you describe could go 28 away gaames unbeaten in the premier league?

If you do believe that, it tells me everything about your knowledge in professional sports
 

Polar

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No, we should be winning the title with this squad or the very least getting 90 plus points.
You almost got it right ….if it wasn’t for a certain double pivot with Fred, McT or Matic. No team win PL with that kind of quality in the centre of the pitch. Off them McT is the only reliable player or player with potential, but right now he represents the minimum of quality required for a top team - we need to partner him with an even better player. Maybe Pogba/McT will work, but I’m also sceptical playing Pogba in double pivot.
 

mav_9me

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I don't think Ole is proactive enough when it comes to making quick subs. However this data is one objective measure of his subs.


Now granted successful subs don't have to be ones that score or create a goal.
 

Abraxas

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I don't think Ole is proactive enough when it comes to making quick subs. However this data is one objective measure of his subs.


Now granted successful subs don't have to be ones that score or create a goal.
Pretty interesting rebuttal to those that claim he has terrible in game management.

Now, this clearly doesn't absolve him of some of the costly shockers he's had, he has deseved criticism. As United manager you have to get them right in the big moments and people are going to remember the semis and finals.

But it shows that we have some decent options to bring on and that most of the time he uses them well. He's quite traditional in the way he uses subs, he's not often going to do a Jose or a Tuchel which can be a weakness too.
 

rotherham_red

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This is just your bias which is stopping from accepting the fact... in fact even Moyes is twice the manager Ole is. Give Ole a team like West ham and see what he does with it. Ole's level is Norwegian league, that's about it.
We gave Moyes the reigning champions who had won 5 out of the previous 7 titles who had lost the other two by a cumulative one point (which was lost as a result of a bullshit offside call).

He finished 7th.
 

NewYorkRed

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That video of us pinging the ball around wonderfully is actually the point- we have the players with the talent to play this way, but we consistenly don’t do it. Instead, we keep passing it back then give it to Pogba/Bruno and hope for magic. That is on the coaching. If the players have the skill to do it, we should be coaching centered around that. Part of that is 100% on Ole, and part of it is on AWB who offers literally nothing going forward and ruins our buildup play literally everytime we try to go through the right.

I hope we improve over the season because the performances haven’t been great so far, and that catches up to you over the course of a long PL season.
 

always_hoping

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We gave Moyes the reigning champions who had won 5 out of the previous 7 titles who had lost the other two by a cumulative one point (which was lost as a result of a bullshit offside call).

He finished 7th.
Mad 8 years on this still needs to be explained to some.

Moyes management is and always was about getting the best out of underdog, he did it with Everton and doing it with West Ham now. A high pressure job like the United gig was never suitable for him. It was awful appointment as direct replacement to Ferguson from which United are still trying to fully recover from.
 

ChaddyP

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This is just your bias which is stopping from accepting the fact... in fact even Moyes is twice the manager Ole is. Give Ole a team like West ham and see what he does with it. Ole's level is Norwegian league, that's about it.
Pellegrini is a big time title wining manager. Give him west ham and they and him will look shite, hell give Pep a side like Everton and see how well they do. Give them title contenders and they will contend. Give Moyes a relegation side and they will crumble and be battered give Big Sam or Tony Pulis a relegation side and Big Sam will thrive. David Moyes is an excelent manager for a certain set up like a mid table club pushing for Europe. And by manager i mean managing players. David Moyes doesnt have the know how in my opinion to manage a big club with big players and huge personalities especially for a club as unique as ours that has certain principles and traditions etched into its walls.

Ole to me is a great manager for us because he understands us and what we are about and he understands the players and how to get the best out of them. David Moyes was not this man. Hes great for Everton, Aston Villa, West Ham because of the type of manager he is. Nothing wrong with that, he was just not for us.
 

rotherham_red

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Mad 8 years on this still needs to be explained to some.

Moyes management is and always was about getting the best out of underdog, he did it with Everton and doing it with West Ham now. A high pressure job like the United gig was never suitable for him. It was awful appointment as direct replacement to Ferguson from which United are still trying to fully recover from.
Don't tell me. Tell it to @Jibbs
 

Mainoldo

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Pellegrini is a big time title wining manager. Give him west ham and they and him will look shite, hell give Pep a side like Everton and see how well they do. Give them title contenders and they will contend. Give Moyes a relegation side and they will crumble and be battered give Big Sam or Tony Pulis a relegation side and Big Sam will thrive. David Moyes is an excelent manager for a certain set up like a mid table club pushing for Europe. And by manager i mean managing players. David Moyes doesnt have the know how in my opinion to manage a big club with big players and huge personalities especially for a club as unique as ours that has certain principles and traditions etched into its walls.

Ole to me is a great manager for us because he understands us and what we are about and he understands the players and how to get the best out of them. David Moyes was not this man. Hes great for Everton, Aston Villa, West Ham because of the type of manager he is. Nothing wrong with that, he was just not for us.
True. Atleast Ole is consistent. Give him a poor side he nearly relegates them two divisions. Give him a side with the best resources he goes on a rolling bottle streak with no trophies.
 

Mainoldo

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Clearly we can play the pretty, quick, direct one-touch football that so many of us cry out for when we say “where are the patterns of play?”, just wish we’d see it more often.
Yep maybe play a team with Matic, Sancho and Lingard in the start instead of McFred. But we don’t see that do we. We also have Donny, Mata, Pogba and Martial. There’s plenty of players capable of playing good football but we choose to set up pragmatic and deliver crap football. But show u a clip where we string a couple passes together. Make us believe our 1 minute pump is the same as City’s or Liverpool’s 60 min drilling.
 

Sviken

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Come on, I myself do not believe Ole is up to the job, but comparing him to Moyes is an absolute insult. He is light years ahead of that dinosaur. Single-handedly managed to destroy everything Fergie built and turn us into a joke.
 

Kush

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Do people who criticize Ole here want him sacked straight away because the form we're currently on doesn't warrant sacking the manager at all. What do you people recon is the amount of failure needed to justify sacking him?
Of course not, it would be silly to sack him mid-season unless we crash out of CL group stage or fall way behind the pack in PL. It'd greatly de-stabilize us and something we should be keen to avoid mid-way through a season.

Logical timing to consider his replacement would've been in the last summer. Failing to get out of CL group when needing a solitary point in last 2 games was a monumental failure. Same applies for failure to win the Europa League, we were far and away the best side in that competition. And, I don't buy the excuse of "we were one kick away from winning it". It reflected very poorly on him, how we played for penalties since drawing level, despite having wealth of options on the bench to try and win it. Not to mention, he didn't even sub his best GK who had a much superior record in saving penalties. I don't recall who and how we lost to in league cup. But, I remember us surrendering pretty meekly to Leicester in the FA Cup.

Folks repeatedly bring 2nd place finish but fail to recognize 74 points won't cut it for 2nd place this season. In fact, it very likely won't even be enough to make Top 4. Last season, two of our main rivals had their problems with one manager trying to undo half-a-season worth of shit work of previous manager, while the other had raft of injuries and lost his key personnel in defence. Competition was going to tighten up, and we are seeing signs of it already.

So yes, if we were ambitious, we could've pulled the trigger in the summer. But, then we went on to reward him with a fresh 3+1 year contract before a single ball was even kicked this season. So, I am resigned to the fact, that CL football is all that matters at our club and Ole won't be going anywhere as long as he keeps delivering them.

This is the main cause for so much of the discontent. There are people that have long since made up their minds that he is not the manager they want, but the results don't warrant him being replaced. In reality, the results warranted a new contract and further backing in the transfer market, which both happened. Its quite the mental conundrum for anyone who has given up on him.
Strongly disagree. Ole had an year left on his deal, and there was no rush to renew him. There are no top/elite clubs sniffing about for his signature, and despite, what many on this thread think, he still has a lot to prove at this level, that he can win silverware or compete for top silverware. The timing of this contract was pre-mature, just as it was the first time, where for some bizarre reason we gave him a permanent position in March, when we could've waited until the summer to assess our options. He'd have richly deserved a new deal if had delivered this season, be it competing for PL title until the end or win up a domestic silverware. We shouldn't have been this hasty.
 

Red00012

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Looks like we lost yesterday and are now joint bottom with Norwich .

Ole out blah blah blah
 

Isotope

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I don't think Ole is proactive enough when it comes to making quick subs. However this data is one objective measure of his subs.


Now granted successful subs don't have to be ones that score or create a goal.
Need a context of those numbers, instead of just going simple. Like, how many points teams got from those subs goals. Adding 4 goals when on 3-1 winning position isn't as useful as scoring 1 goal to 2-2 score (like against West Ham).

And, this is harder to prove; how many games we could have won if only the subs came earlier, like that EL Final.
 
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Ole's screen

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Need a context of those numbers, instead of just going simple. Like, how many points teams got from those subs goals. Adding 4 goals to 3-1 score isn't as useful as 1 goal to 1-1 score.
Well if you combine that with the fact that we've recovered the most points from losing positions I think its more getting the equalizer and/or winning goal than the other thing. Like against West ham.
 

Isotope

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Well if you combine that with the fact that we've recovered the most points from losing positions I think its more getting the equalizer and/or winning goal than the other thing. Like against West ham.
West Ham is this season. That stats is from last season. That come back could be before the subs, as we usually played better after losing; and Ole used to have very late subs.

But you could be right there's a correlation between those two findings. Any scenario is possible. And just putting numbers like that could be misleading.
 
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mav_9me

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Need a context of those numbers, instead of just going simple. Like, how many points teams got from those subs goals. Adding 4 goals when on 3-1 winning position isn't as useful as scoring 1 goal to 2-2 score (like against West Ham).

And, this is harder to prove; how many games we could have won if only the subs came earlier, like that EL Final.
Yeah there is more context. Sure. Like Lingard scored 4th goal last week in a 4-1, doesn't matter as much as his goal yesterday. But ultimately these numbers show his subs have objectively delivered.
 

MichaelRed

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Clearly we can play the pretty, quick, direct one-touch football that so many of us cry out for when we say “where are the patterns of play?”, just wish we’d see it more often.
Watch it again and ask yourself why we don't see it more often. Players keep bouncing it off Matic, making a forward movement, getting it back off Matic, advancing, giving it back to him and repeating etc. We don't see this more often because 90% of the time it's Fred in that position who struggles to pass water. Even if Matic is getting old, he should at least get 30-60 minutes a game because he makes such a difference to our passing.

Edit: He also beats a man to start that move off, something Fred literally can't do. All his passes afterwards are one-touch and precise, again I don't think Fred hardly ever hits a precise one-touch pass.
 

Isotope

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Yeah there is more context. Sure. Like Lingard scored 4th goal last week in a 4-1, doesn't matter as much as his goal yesterday. But ultimately these numbers show his subs have objectively delivered.
"objectively delivered" itself is subjective. If the objective is to get as many point as possible with those subs, those numbers doesn't really tell much. How do you quantify creating opportunities between early and late subs? How to quantify the needed of resting period of star players with those late subs?
 
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hobbers

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3 of those goals and at least 1 assist came from the 9-0 vs Southampton..... Or in other words one third of all sub G+A contributions from a single game where all the goals counted for nothing.

One goal in the 3-1 loss to Palace, again pointless (literally). One in the 95th minute vs Everton to make it 3-1. No points gained there either so that's half of them accounted for already.

3 came from the game vs West Ham where Ole decided not to start Bruno and Rashford, then brought them on at HT when we were a goal down, absolutely turned the game around but hardly genius management there. The other 3 all from subbing Cavani on with not much time to go.
 
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amolbhatia50k

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That's total nonsense though. If Ole proved he can actually win a PL title there would be significantly more trust in his abilities. Scratch that if he wins the league cup I'd be willing to bet there would less knee jerk among the fanbase. Not sure why you think there should be a general level of satisfaction until United are winning silverware again. Ronaldo didn't come here to twiddle his thumbs. Bruno will also clearly want to start winning silverware to back up his ridiculous stats. These WC players aren't going to stick around forever winning absolutely nothing.
Even the one before that is complete nonsense. Barring a few anomalies which are there on either side, if he genuinely challenges (in a title race till last few weeks) and we have a team that looks capable of winning big trophies, Ole will get praise and support.

As you say, one could turn around the sillyness and claim that if Ole wins the FA Cup/league Cup, then he'll be hailed by loads as some incredible success etc
 

lysglimt

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This is just your bias which is stopping from accepting the fact... in fact even Moyes is twice the manager Ole is. Give Ole a team like West ham and see what he does with it. Ole's level is Norwegian league, that's about it.
We did give Moyes a team like United - and we saw what he did with it. It was awful! Moyes is good at playing his kind of football - but that requires a "weaker" team, because fans of the biggest teams wont accept that style.
 

MinGin

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This is just your bias which is stopping from accepting the fact... in fact even Moyes is twice the manager Ole is. Give Ole a team like West ham and see what he does with it. Ole's level is Norwegian league, that's about it.
Moyes was giving a Title Winning Team and finished at 7th. Don't you remember?
And he selected Fellaini in a high price and given up Kroos.
Moyes was/is/will be a good manager, but only suit for mid-table team

Give Pep a team like West Ham, and see what he does with it.
 

Bilbo

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Strongly disagree. Ole had an year left on his deal, and there was no rush to renew him. There are no top/elite clubs sniffing about for his signature, and despite, what many on this thread think, he still has a lot to prove at this level, that he can win silverware or compete for top silverware. The timing of this contract was pre-mature, just as it was the first time, where for some bizarre reason we gave him a permanent position in March, when we could've waited until the summer to assess our options. He'd have richly deserved a new deal if had delivered this season, be it competing for PL title until the end or win up a domestic silverware. We shouldn't have been this hasty.
Ole didn't get a new contract to stop him from being poached. There are human elements at play here. You need stability at the top of the organisation so if the club feel that the squad is in safe hands, which clearly they do, then a new contract is a complete no-brainer.
 

Olecurls99

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3 of those goals and at least 1 assist came from the 9-0 vs Southampton..... Or in other words one third of all sub G+A contributions from a single game where all the goals counted for nothing.

One goal in the 3-1 loss to Palace, again pointless (literally). One in the 95th minute vs Everton to make it 3-1. No points gained there either so that's half of them accounted for already.

3 came from the game vs West Ham where Ole decided not to start Bruno and Rashford, then brought them on at HT when we were a goal down, absolutely turned the game around but hardly genius management there. The other 3 all from subbing Cavani on with not much time to go.
Yes but don't you see that he's way out on top of that list of PL managers. He's not in the middle and you've explained him back to the bottom (Without, by the way, applying the same contexting to the other managers, but you're not invested in running down other managers, just our own).
This is a manager who is constantly pilloried for his in game management, and yet his subs have had, by far and away, the biggest impact. A huge example of over criticism.
 
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