Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Siorac

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We gave Moyes the reigning champions who had won 5 out of the previous 7 titles who had lost the other two by a cumulative one point (which was lost as a result of a bullshit offside call).

He finished 7th.
This is absolutely, monstrously unfair on Moyes. It basically amounts to a character assassination.

Had he been allowed to see out the season, he could have finished sixth!
 

Aren86

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No we didn't, and nope.

We have a squad that's equally as strong or stronger than City, Pool and Chelsea. The difference is the managers. The managers are the drivers behind those bookie odds as well.

This is the first time we have a side that largely looks capable of competing at the sharp end of competitions, which Ole can have some credit for, and all our best players are in their prime ages. De Gea is 30. Varane, Maguire, Pogba 28. Bruno 27. Shaw 26. Ronaldo 36. That's why we can't squander the next 2-3 years if the manager proves to be not up to the task this season.
Equally as strong as City and Chelsea? Our first team CMs Scott and Fred wouldn't get into their teams, what do you think our squad CMs will do?

We've progressed every year, and outperformed Chelsea and Liverpool last year in the league and up until now, we are still with them.

The growth and progress over the last two years has been the best since Fergie IMO, from a squad building, mentality aspect so time will tell what the next two years say. We have to regress, yet by the comments of some fans, you'd think we was mid-table and out of UCL already.
 

Aren86

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Yes, nobody expects us to win anything because we have an out of depth manager while our rivals have Tuchel, Klopp and Guardiola. See the difference?
If that's what you believe and helps you sleep at night. Out of depth because, he finished 3rd in his first season, and 2nd after? Seems to really be drowning right now.

You can't look past the first 11 still lacking in one of its most important positions. Fred wouldn't get into any of the top teams in the world. This has nothing to do with Ole, because his only choice is to double up with Scott. VDB we don't know if he can handle the task and Matic doesn't have the legs.

But let's put it down to the manager who has only progressed every year he has been with us, whilst building a better squad each year.
 

hobbers

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Yes but don't you see that he's way out on top of that list of PL managers. He's not in the middle and you've explained him back to the bottom (Without, by the way, applying the same contexting to the other managers, but you're not invested in running down other managers, just our own).
This is a manager who is constantly pilloried for his in game management, and yet his subs have had, by far and away, the biggest impact. A huge example of over criticism.
I'm invested in proving that it's a dumb and pointless statistic. If you want a more relevant stat: Ole's subs last season 'rescued' 6 points. 2 vs West Ham, 3 vs Southampton, 1 vs Leicester. I don't know how that stacks up against other managers and I don't particularly care. Because even then it doesn't tell you about how many points we lost out on either through poor subs or no subs.

Ole is rightly pilloried for his in game management because his in game management has been terrible and got us ditched out of about 6 different competitions so far. We lost the FA cup semi finals to Leicester and Chelsea partly through over-rotation, partly through poor/absent subs letting the games slip away from us. Same story vs Sevilla.

Then we have the games against PSG, Leipzig and Villarreal which were all absolute howlers from Ole. That's CL group qualification and the Europa League trophy lost almost entirely down to his in-game management paralysis. And goals 5, 6 and 9 from Martial and James vs Southampton do nothing to redress that.
 

mav_9me

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If that's what you believe and helps you sleep at night. Out of depth because, he finished 3rd in his first season, and 2nd after? Seems to really be drowning right now.

You can't look past the first 11 still lacking in one of its most important positions. Fred wouldn't get into any of the top teams in the world. This has nothing to do with Ole, because his only choice is to double up with Scott. VDB we don't know if he can handle the task and Matic doesn't have the legs.

But let's put it down to the manager who has only progressed every year he has been with us, whilst building a better squad each year.
So how come Ole hasn't strengthened the midfield? Isn't VdB on him, wasting that money or not using him, both are on him. And why not sell VdB and Lingard and reinvest in getting a CM?

Does Ole bear any responsibility for the state of our CM?
 

Mickson

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So how come Ole hasn't strengthened the midfield? Isn't VdB on him, wasting that money or not using him, both are on him. And why not sell VdB and Lingard and reinvest in getting a CM?

Does Ole bear any responsibility for the state of our CM?
Laughable really. And then saying Ole is great because our squad is better. Of course it's better, he is spending over £100m each summer. Regarding the squad job, Ole is perfectly fine though. What he should do better is our playing style. Three years with him now and we still look dysfunctional most of the time, he really needs to fix that if he wants titles and that hasn't changed with better players, the difference is that we have such a great squad that there's always someone bailing us out. I don't think what we see now is sustainable, therefore it will be interesting to see our approach against great teams.
 

Olecurls99

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I'm invested in proving that it's a dumb and pointless statistic. If you want a more relevant stat: Ole's subs last season 'rescued' 6 points. 2 vs West Ham, 3 vs Southampton, 1 vs Leicester. I don't know how that stacks up against other managers and I don't particularly care. Because even then it doesn't tell you about how many points we lost out on either through poor subs or no subs.

Ole is rightly pilloried for his in game management because his in game management has been terrible and got us ditched out of about 6 different competitions so far. We lost the FA cup semi finals to Leicester and Chelsea partly through over-rotation, partly through poor/absent subs letting the games slip away from us. Same story vs Sevilla.

Then we have the games against PSG, Leipzig and Villarreal which were all absolute howlers from Ole. That's CL group qualification and the Europa League trophy lost almost entirely down to his in-game management paralysis. And goals 5, 6 and 9 from Martial and James vs Southampton do nothing to redress that.
I have a feeling this tripe could be thrown at each and every manager from their fans for multiple instances and that will be my stock response every time I hear the buzz words 'poor in game management'.

This argument is unprovable because you can never see the alternative despite how confident Mr Hobbers is that he has all the answers and knows his subs would have worked.

If the other managers are so great then why has the worst manager got the best stats in terms of goals and assists from subs? It seems beyond logic.

Oleouters
"Yeah he's good at rebuilding but his in game management yadayadayada".
Reality
"Best stats for goals and assists from subs in 2020-21? One Ole Solskjaer."
Ole outers
"Yeah but Southampton, Leeds is a gimme yadayadayada.

You couldn't make it up
 
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Hughes35

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I find the pressure on Ole baffling so far this season to be honest.

Another good transfer window. Unbeaten in the Prem (Joint top), scoring goals and a red card / a moment of madness from Lingard away from a result in the opening CL game.

It's been a strong start to the season. I still think we need a CDM (as everybody does) but other than that he is doing a good job. Lets give him a break and support the team. As things stand we could easily have a very good season.
 

RedSky

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I find the pressure on Ole baffling so far this season to be honest.
There should always be some kind of pressure in my opinion, within reason.

But nobody can deny that our form in the league has been very good, i'm sure people will whine as they always do. But we're at 57 league games since Bruno signed and only 6 losses in that time, a few too many draws in those 57 games but making us difficult to beat is a very good sign of strength. We've scored 116 goals in those 57 games too, averaging 2 goals a game.
 

passing-wind

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I find the pressure on Ole baffling so far this season to be honest.

Another good transfer window. Unbeaten in the Prem (Joint top), scoring goals and a red card / a moment of madness from Lingard away from a result in the opening CL game.

It's been a strong start to the season. I still think we need a CDM (as everybody does) but other than that he is doing a good job. Lets give him a break and support the team. As things stand we could easily have a very good season.
The pressure is justified this is his team, he's had a very good transfer window, I speak to non United fans who all unanimously agree the team has the quality to be challenging. Given the resources solskjaer has available there is no such criteria other than success to be achieved. If he falls short of the mark he goes. Same circumstances of Lampard spending during the transfer window it comes with an increased expectation.

The recent responses Ole has given out criticising pundits in the media and the emotion showed over the bottle at West Ham I think Solskjaer grasps this himself that he needs to win something. He recently came out with quotes that his legacy must be defined by silverware. Anything outside of a league challenge and a domestic cup win is a failure at this point.
 

Hughes35

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There should always be some kind of pressure in my opinion, within reason.

But nobody can deny that our form in the league has been very good, i'm sure people will whine as they always do. But we're at 57 league games since Bruno signed and only 6 losses in that time, a few too many draws in those 57 games but making us difficult to beat is a very good sign of strength. We've scored 116 goals in those 57 games too, averaging 2 goals a game.
Yes, I agree. Every manager and footballer is under pressure. Some of the talk, especially after the young boys game was crazy though.

Our form is good and we seem able to scrap out wins even when not at our best which is a great trait to have.
 

Hughes35

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The pressure is justified this is his team, he's had a very good transfer window, I speak to non United fans who all unanimously agree the team has the quality to be challenging. Given the resources solskjaer has available there is no such criteria other than success to be achieved. If he falls short of the mark he goes. Same circumstances of Lampard spending during the transfer window it comes with an increased expectation.

The recent responses Ole has given out criticising pundits in the media and the emotion showed over the bottle at West Ham I think Solskjaer grasps this himself that he needs to win something. He recently came out with quotes that his legacy must be defined by silverware. Anything outside of a league challenge and a domestic cup win is a failure at this point.
I agree with this also..... But I hear people people talking as though we are having a poor start to the season even though it's actually been a good start.

We need a decent title challenge and as things stand we are joint top so he is meeting that objective (very early days).
 

romufc

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Yes, I agree. Every manager and footballer is under pressure. Some of the talk, especially after the young boys game was crazy though.

Our form is good and we seem able to scrap out wins even when not at our best which is a great trait to have.
Thats the problem, over the last year or so, we have been able to scrap out wins, which is why we haven't won anything.

When we struggle to scrap the win, it costs us dearly, CL last season, EL final.

We have not yet under Ole's reign had a period of 10 games of good performances.
 

Amarsdd

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The pressure is justified this is his team, he's had a very good transfer window, I speak to non United fans who all unanimously agree the team has the quality to be challenging. Given the resources solskjaer has available there is no such criteria other than success to be achieved. If he falls short of the mark he goes. Same circumstances of Lampard spending during the transfer window it comes with an increased expectation.

The recent responses Ole has given out criticising pundits in the media and the emotion showed over the bottle at West Ham I think Solskjaer grasps this himself that he needs to win something. He recently came out with quotes that his legacy must be defined by silverware. Anything outside of a league challenge and a domestic cup win is a failure at this point.
I'm pretty sure the poster means pressure in terms of how our current season is being portrayed, almost as if we are on 5 points from 5 games and have just gone out of the CL group stage.
 

Karlos PFC

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I agree with this also..... But I hear people people talking as though we are having a poor start to the season even though it's actually been a good start.

We need a decent title challenge and as things stand we are joint top so he is meeting that objective (very early days).
Noone is complaining about our results. We are joint top and everyone is happy. The performances though after 3,5 years in the club is the issue.
 

Samid

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Noone is complaining about our results. We are joint top and everyone is happy. The performances though after 3,5 years in the club is the issue.
The bigger issue is that people don't know the difference between 2.5 and 3.5 years.
 

Withnail

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3 of those goals and at least 1 assist came from the 9-0 vs Southampton..... Or in other words one third of all sub G+A contributions from a single game where all the goals counted for nothing.

One goal in the 3-1 loss to Palace, again pointless (literally). One in the 95th minute vs Everton to make it 3-1. No points gained there either so that's half of them accounted for already.

3 came from the game vs West Ham where Ole decided not to start Bruno and Rashford, then brought them on at HT when we were a goal down, absolutely turned the game around but hardly genius management there. The other 3 all from subbing Cavani on with not much time to go.
Do it again for all the teams on the list or your analysis is as pointless as you think all those goals and assists were.
 

He'sRaldo

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I find the pressure on Ole baffling so far this season to be honest.
Think of it like Mourinho. If the performances are not consistently good, then people will expect silverware as a must to compensate. Especially now we have such a great squad.

It would be weird if after 3 years of mixed performances and no trophies, the Utd manager wasn't under heavy scrutiny.
 

Hughes35

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Think of it like Mourinho. If the performances are not consistently good, then people will expect silverware as a must to compensate. Especially now we have such a great squad.

It would be weird if after 3 years of mixed performances and no trophies, the Utd manager wasn't under heavy scrutiny.
He cant win a trophy 6 games in to a season though. So far this season the team are doing well.

Lets see where we are in 40 games time and start to make some conclusions.
 

hobbers

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This argument is unprovable because you can never see the alternative despite how confident Mr Hobbers is that he has all the answers and knows his subs would have worked.

If the other managers are so great then why has the worst manager got the best stats in terms of goals and assists from subs? It seems beyond logic.
I already explained it, if you don't understand that's your lookout. Also you are the only one saying he's the worst.

When it comes to games like PSG and Villarreal yes I am certain I would have made better decisions than Ole. Me and every single other fan with a brain who watched those games. Everyone knew he had to take off Fred vs PSG. Everyone knew he had to make changes vs Villarreal before the 110th minute. It's football management not rocket science. :lol:


Oleouters
"Yeah he's good at rebuilding but his in game management yadayadayada".
Reality
"Best stats for goals and assists from subs in 2020-21? One Ole Solskjaer."
Ole outers
"Yeah but Southampton, Leeds is a gimme yadayadayada.

You couldn't make it up
You just did.
 

Sviken

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If that's what you believe and helps you sleep at night. Out of depth because, he finished 3rd in his first season, and 2nd after? Seems to really be drowning right now.

You can't look past the first 11 still lacking in one of its most important positions. Fred wouldn't get into any of the top teams in the world. This has nothing to do with Ole, because his only choice is to double up with Scott. VDB we don't know if he can handle the task and Matic doesn't have the legs.

But let's put it down to the manager who has only progressed every year he has been with us, whilst building a better squad each year.
Mourinho finished 2nd with more points and arguably a worse squad. So what? I don't see you jumping on Mourinho's defense. Yes, Fred wouldn't get in any top team in the world, that much is true. But who's fault is that? What is he still doing here? Ole has been in charge for 3 seasons and Fred is still here. Guys like VDB, Lingard who we could have offloaded and brought a capable DM are still here. Who are we to blame for this? Sir Alex? Why is Matic still here? Or Mata? Why haven't they been offloaded ages ago? Matic hasn't been good since Mourinho.

You say there is progress, but I don't see any, tbh. We're playing turgid football most of the time, we haven't won anything or have a prospect of winning anything and our future doesn't look all that bright. And it's not like Ole has been on a shoestring budget, he's spent more than 400 million since he came. Enough excuses, please. If he doesn't challenge this season, he needs to go. And challenging is even generous. I'm not even asking to win the title or anything, but mount a proper challenge. With this squad Conte would walk the league with his eyes closed. Now I'm not saying I want Conte, I want a progressive, young manager with a proper system in play like Nagelsmann, Potter, Rose, etc. The kind of managers other teams get and find success. The kind of managers we're after are either washed up (Mourinho/LVG) or never at this level (Ole/Moyes). And that needs to change.

There's a higher chance we'd find our Busby/Sir Alex by scouting these precise young, ambitious, proper managers than putting our trust in former legends of United. Because Fergie was that kind of a manager. He wasn't born at United even though his name today may be synonymous with the club.
 

DJ_21

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Let’s not start judging so early on in the season, let’s wait till near the end of the season and see if we win anything or could win anything. I genuinely feel we’re a DM away from winning the league and I think that will be our first signing next summer, or if we’re lucky we could do what we did with Fernandes and sign one in January which could have a massive effect on the rest of the season.
 

He'sRaldo

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He cant win a trophy 6 games in to a season though. So far this season the team are doing well.

Lets see where we are in 40 games time and start to make some conclusions.
Conclusions are already being made about our performances, which is what some would call the 'moaning'.

IMO after 3 years of squad building and tactical work, the Utd manager should be expected to deliver both great performances and results. But at this stage with the drought we're having, results and trophies are the priority.

I do agree that we should wait and see where we are, but we shouldn't wait too long. If midseason we're looking like we're not up to it again this season in the league or CL, we should move swiftly.
 

hobbers

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Do it again for all the teams on the list or your analysis is as pointless as you think all those goals and assists were.
The point of my post was that those stats are pointless, so I don't think I need to.

As I already said, Ole's subs contributed via goals or assists to rescuing 6 points for us last season. If you want to compare that far more relevant statistic with other managers then be my guest.
 

Polar

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Ole is the best manager we’ve had since SAF and people still complain like spoiled kids. What about enjoying our progress and second season among top two:cool:
 

RedSky

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Ole is the best manager we’ve had since SAF and people still complain like spoiled kids. What about enjoying our progress and second season among top two:cool:
But I want us to pass in nice neat triangles! I don't care about us winning! I want goddamn triangles! I don't give a shit that we've got the highest amount of goals scored this season in the PL. I want those fecking triangles and I want them right now!
 

Withnail

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The point of my post was that those stats are pointless, so I don't think I need to.

As I already said, Ole's subs contributed via goals or assists to rescuing 6 points for us last season. If you want to compare that far more relevant statistic with other managers then be my guest.
You're the one who did half a job and proved very little so I think I'll pass on that one, thanks :)
 

Karlos PFC

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The bigger issue is that people don't know the difference between 2.5 and 3.5 years.
Really? You think that people not knowing exactly how long he is here is a bigger problem than Ole not implying a certain style after 2,5 years?
 

anant

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The point of my post was that those stats are pointless, so I don't think I need to.

As I already said, Ole's subs contributed via goals or assists to rescuing 6 points for us last season. If you want to compare that far more relevant statistic with other managers then be my guest.
Sure, let's apply the same rule to other managers as well

Pool - goals scored by subs: 7

Jota - 4 - 3rd goal in 3-1 win vs Arsenal,2nd in 2-1 win vs WHU, 1st and 3rd in 3-0 win over Arsenal.
Salah - 2 - 6th and 7th in 7-0 over palace
AOC- 1 - 3rd goal in 3-0 win over Burnley.

At best, Klopp's subs won him 6 points as well (depends on how you'd like to view Jota's goals in 3-0 over Arsenal)

City - goals scored by subs : 3

Aguero - 2 - 4th and 5th goal in 5-0 over Everton
Foden - 1 - 1st in 1-1 draw with WHU

Points gained - 1.

So, even if you look at points gained by subs metric here, I'd say, Ole has done pretty well
 

Adam-Utd

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just came to post this myself.

a perfect example of what sancho is good at and how the team need to play with him to make it work.

once we adjust to his play style he will be a real menace.
 

Aren86

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So how come Ole hasn't strengthened the midfield? Isn't VdB on him, wasting that money or not using him, both are on him. And why not sell VdB and Lingard and reinvest in getting a CM?

Does Ole bear any responsibility for the state of our CM?
Vdb is on him, but so is Cavani, Varane, AWB, Maguire, Ronaldo, Sancho. He generally makes decent signings.

You could argue, although no-one truly knows VDB may have been a "pogba" replacement possibly? But then again, in his very limited game time (I like him) he hasn't really done anything to show he can play CM in a 2 man midfield or holding and he is never moving bruno or pogba based on their form.

I am pretty sure he wants to strengthen the midfield, its evident but we wanted Sancho last year and we was crying for a partner for Maguire this year. Letting Ronaldo go to City would have been a joke, so I think he did what could.
 

Aren86

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Mourinho finished 2nd with more points and arguably a worse squad. So what? I don't see you jumping on Mourinho's defense. Yes, Fred wouldn't get in any top team in the world, that much is true. But who's fault is that? What is he still doing here? Ole has been in charge for 3 seasons and Fred is still here. Guys like VDB, Lingard who we could have offloaded and brought a capable DM are still here. Who are we to blame for this? Sir Alex? Why is Matic still here? Or Mata? Why haven't they been offloaded ages ago? Matic hasn't been good since Mourinho.

You say there is progress, but I don't see any, tbh. We're playing turgid football most of the time, we haven't won anything or have a prospect of winning anything and our future doesn't look all that bright. And it's not like Ole has been on a shoestring budget, he's spent more than 400 million since he came. Enough excuses, please. If he doesn't challenge this season, he needs to go. And challenging is even generous. I'm not even asking to win the title or anything, but mount a proper challenge. With this squad Conte would walk the league with his eyes closed. Now I'm not saying I want Conte, I want a progressive, young manager with a proper system in play like Nagelsmann, Potter, Rose, etc. The kind of managers other teams get and find success. The kind of managers we're after are either washed up (Mourinho/LVG) or never at this level (Ole/Moyes). And that needs to change.

There's a higher chance we'd find our Busby/Sir Alex by scouting these precise young, ambitious, proper managers than putting our trust in former legends of United. Because Fergie was that kind of a manager. He wasn't born at United even though his name today may be synonymous with the club.
Not jumping to Mourinho defence? I was never asked about Mourinho but as I kept reading your response you mentioned turgid football. The irony on wanting to defend Mourinho and complaining about the football under Ole is nuts. Oles football for United has been much better.

Up until the start of this season, Mourinho had a much better team thanOle, so I dont agree Jose has a worse squad. He signed his two CBs, two CDMs, Sanchez, Mkhi, Pogba and of course Lukaku and Zlatan. Let's not pretend he was playing with a poor squad.

The conte argument is a joke too. 5 at the back football, no thank you AND also let's not forget earlier in Conte's career he had many failures and disappointments. WE are in the 3rd full season of Oles reign and he has done nothing to warrant such crazy write offs.

I do however know we won't agree with each other as I find some of your points laughable, and you probably do with mine. But IF we finish poorly this year in the premiership and we show no progress or challenge, I am with you, his position should be considered. I am not here to LOVE ole just for sentimental reasons, I am here because I have seen him do a better job than those before him bar SAF and show a sign of moving forward each year.

If he challenges though, it'll be the same arguments from Ole-outers. He should have won the league, he should have won the UCL or they'll pull a random game he didn't get the tactics right to call for his head like people tried with Poch earlier. Its just conte now, and it'll be someone else next year.

I dont think players of Ronaldo stature and Varane would come to work with him if they didn't believe in what they saw from Uniteds progress and Ole and his vision and that gives me enough confidence. Let's agree to disagree and pick up in May ;)
 
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