Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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AjaxCunian

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It’s funny to see people who still think Ole’s the man try to discredit Blind’s opinion because he wasn’t a very good manager, while believing that their opinion matters and is the right one, despite being someone on an internet forum who has never managed a football team apart from possibly their own kid’s under 9 side.

The “opinions that matter” pyramid, according to them:

- Successful football managers (but they’re twats if they comment negatively on a colleague while still active)
- Random blokes who have never managed a football club but are positively geared towards Ole
- Professional players and managers who didn’t have extremely successful careers
- Pundits, regardless of previous experience in football
- The rest
It is actually ridiculous.
 

Lynty

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He can be sacked at any time. Just look at Jose.
There was credible reason to sack Jose. His crap brand of football had nothing to do with it.
  • We were sixth in the table, 11 points away from European places at Christmas.
  • He'd lost the dressing room
Non has happened with Ole. He's still in a title race, he's still got the dressing room. Whether we think he'll still have that going for him come December is a matter of opinion.

You can't sack someone until they've dropped the eggs.

Personally, I wouldn't have given Ole a new contract until January - after we have a good estimate of our performance this season.
 

Amir

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You can't sack someone until they've dropped the eggs.
We won't do it, but of course you can. A smart, proactive, club can look at a manager and decide he's just not going to succeed so they might as well replace him and give them a chance. They don't wait for his failure, which would also be their own.
 

anant

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b82REZ

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It’s just a nonsense argument. It makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s basically a defense mechanism, in that some people don’t like what he’s saying and instead of engaging in the actual content of what he said, they launch into an ad hominem attack on the individual who said it because he hasn’t reached some arbitrary standard as a manager himself. So if he had won the Champions League that would somehow give him carte blanche to say whatever he wanted, regardless of how ridiculous it may have been, because “well, he’s won the Champions League - he must know what he’s talking about!”

I mean if you disagree with the content of what he’s saying then that’s fine. When he talks about us not having an identity, for me, he’s right. I don’t know how the feck we’re going to play from one week to the next. When he says Ole has no tactical plan, I disagree there. We have a clear tactical plan against some teams, and sometimes it works to great effect. So I don’t agree with him there. But the fact that Blind is not at the top of the game himself so therefore everything he says can be ignored is just nonsense logic.
Well said.
 

VP89

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Why are Danny Blind's comments getting this much traction?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mar...mple-the-football-is-the-better-it-is.462328/

We had this a few months ago as well. Doubt those supporting Blind today said "Look, Bielsa said this about us. Maybe, Ole is doing something right". But our responses were "With 11 amazing players, it's easy to keep football simple". So, it works both ways
Thing is I don't think we are playing anything in a simple manner. It all looks a bit everywhere when we go forward. Of late, it looks a bit chaotic when we're turned over on counters, too.
 

anant

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Thing is I don't think we are playing anything in a simple manner. It all looks a bit everywhere when we go forward. Of late, it looks a bit chaotic when we're turned over on counters, too.
Slightly older quote btw, but the point still stands - if you're giving weightage to pundits/managers that support your POV, unfair to shoot down opinions of managers that don't support your POV. I'm certain we didn't have a celebration here when Bielsa said this or Pep said

"For me he's an exceptional manager. I cannot say much because I am not there in the locker room but how he handled the team and how he represents United all around the world," said Guardiola.

"I know, Ole knows, everyone knows it depends on results but I have a high opinion about his work at United."

Link
So, if you didn't do it then, why start doing it now?! I'm pretty sure you'd (the forum) have passed off the opinion as just another opinion from a now nobody had Blind said the opposite

EDIT: And it's not targeted at you or the Ole outers. Had Blind said the opposite, I'm pretty sure I or one of the other Ole In guys would have posted that. Its basic human tendency looking for confirmation of your viewpoint
 
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NewUser777

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I’m getting second hand embarassment from people discrediting Blind using his managerial record, while defending Ole who has a disastrous CV aswell. If a failed manager like Blind isn’t worthy of an opinion, how is the guy who relegated Cardiff worthy of managing United?!

People on here s**t on McFred weekly in order to defend Ole, but I doubt anyone on Redcafe was/is an international midfielder. Anything to defend our precious Ole.
I dont think relegating Cardiff is anything to brag about. I think we all could do that. Most would end up doing it, I’m sure.
 

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‘Counting trophies’ is how success is judged at clubs like Utd.

That’s why you chose ‘united 99’ as your username :)

You didn’t choose it because Alex Ferguson had a nice smile, did you - you chose it because Utd won 3 major trophies that season.

And that’s why Ole’s reign as Utd manager is viewed as a failure by everyone in the footballing World who isn’t a simpering, nostalgic moron.

If he’d won a couple of trophies by now - which he should have - then he wouldn’t be under such pressure right now. Because ultimately, at clubs like Utd - trophies are what matters.

That was and is Fergie’s view also btw. It isn’t anything new at Utd.

Indeed, the irony is that if Ole had the managerial ability to win a League Cup, a Europa League or an FA Cup, it’d be the likes of you and Eriku etc who’d be the first to claim it was a great achievement and a signal that he was succeeding.

And of course, you’d be right… for the same reason that as of now, you’re wrong.

Because counting trophies is what matters.
You just single handedly destroyed the logic of the Ole in mob in one fell swoop, but they’ll be too dim to realize it and some likely cannot comprehend or read either.
 

Lynty

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We won't do it, but of course you can. A smart, proactive, club can look at a manager and decide he's just not going to succeed so they might as well replace him and give them a chance. They don't wait for his failure, which would also be their own.
How's that working for Watford?

I understand where your coming from, but it rarely happens like that in real life, mid season. Those sort of evaluations happen towards the end of season. Even Lampard was sacked in January, floating 9th in the league.

...Manchester United face a 4-5 year journey back into the top level of clubs, and Ole should be the man to take us along the first 3 years before passing a much better squad onto a much better manager.
This was my opinion of Ole in April 2019 when he'd just been appointed full time manager. I don't think my viewpoint has changed. He's likely taken us as far as he can, and in the process unquestionably improved our squad.

Sacking mid season, with no clear plan (we've literally just give him a new contract) is just bizarre. Like all other organizations in the world, his new contract would have also included new targets and objectives. If he fails to deliver a trophy or a believable title challenge at the end of this season, then I reckon he'll be sacked quite fairly. If he can't meet any of those expectations come Jan, he'll also get the sack.

But we have posters calling for his head because he might not meet those expectations.
 

united_99

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You just single handedly destroyed the logic of the Ole in mob in one fell swoop, but they’ll be too dim to realize it and some likely cannot comprehend or read either.
Ole in mob :rolleyes:
The post you are quoting was a train wreck of a post based on wrong assumptions.
Not only that, but the poster doesn’t even seem to know the difference and importance between major and minor trophies. It looks like a copy of Jose’s repeated rants where he spells out every Mickey Mouse Cup he has won.
 

Giggsy13

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Ole in mob :rolleyes:
The post you are quoting was a train wreck of a post based on wrong assumptions.
Not only that, but the poster doesn’t even seem to know the difference and importance between major and minor trophies. It looks like a copy of Jose’s repeated rants where he spells out every Mickey Mouse Cup he has won.
Then reply to the post that has you twisted. How brittle are you where someone praising a post you don’t agree with has you triggered!? :lol:

You got absolutely hammered in that post btw. Tell us again why you have united_99 as a username? It’s a pity you can’t change it at this stage, but more appropriate based on your expectations of the club now: Progess_2019, SteadyingTheShip19-21, Top4_2020-2021, UnitedWay_2019.
 

Kush

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Danny Blind has been a serial failure as a Manager. It's laughable he thinks he's in a position to give a critique on any other Managers. It's also highly unprofessional to publicly attack a Manager in this way - and he's doing it because he's got a vested interest in trying to get Donny playing (or a transfer) so he's useful for the Netherlands. It's not objective criticism.

He also uses City as the yard stick to measure United's current performance. City are on the back of a decade of dominance, who ever was managing United will still be playing catch up. We can't rapidly go from the lows we've been to, to being comparible to the best team in Europe.

We know where improvements are needed and there's every chance we'll see that happen.
Rapidly? It's been 3 years with 6 transfer windows and better part of £441m spent mate :lol:

Funny, how we went from "lows" of finishing 2nd and picking up couple of silverwares to "highs" of finishing... 2nd with lower points tally and no trophies to boot. Absolutely laughable, the guff folks write on here to deflect any criticism.
 

united_99

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Then reply to the post that has you twisted. How brittle are you where someone praising a post you don’t agree with has you triggered!? :lol:

You got absolutely hammered in that post btw. Tell us again why you have united_99 as a username? It’s a pity you can’t change it at this stage, but more appropriate based on your expectations of the club now: Progess_2019, SteadyingTheShip19-21, Top4_2020-2021, UnitedWay_2019.
Well if you could read properly you would know as I stated it earlier. But it doesn’t surprise me at all that you just choose to ignore posts which don’t suit your agenda.
 

Amir

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I understand where your coming from, but it rarely happens like that in real life, mid season. Those sort of evaluations happen towards the end of season. Even Lampard was sacked in January, floating 9th in the league.
You are right in a way. Because in the sort of club I've desribed, Solskjaer would have already been out the door. Not after seven games this season, but before the season. Or before last season.

I don't actually think we should let him go right now. Not unless we have a clear plan where we plan to go from here.

If he fails to deliver a trophy or a believable title challenge at the end of this season, then I reckon he'll be sacked quite fairly. If he can't meet any of those expectations come Jan, he'll also get the sack.

But we have posters calling for his head because he might not meet those expectations.
If people are looking at the team and are thinking that the expectations will not be met, it's reasonable to move on to someone who can meet them. Otherwise you're kind of putting the manager over the club - giving him (and the club) a chance to fail. You don't always wait for the manager to actually fail completely before making a change.

Of course, the fact we've given him a new contract is absurd enough.
 

Ayoba

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Rapidly? It's been 3 years with 6 transfer windows and better part of £441m spent mate :lol:

Funny, how we went from "lows" of finishing 2nd and picking up couple of silverwares to "highs" of finishing... 2nd with lower points tally and no trophies to boot. Absolutely laughable, the guff folks write on here to deflect any criticism.
But but but there is harmony in the squad now and they're all best mates. A new manager would just simply rip up everything Ole has built therefore unless pep or Klopp are available we must stick with Ole!!
 

Tom Van Persie

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I can't wait for his reign to be over just so the children can stop branding each other Ole In or Ole Out, like it''s a bad thing backing your manager or a bad thing thinking he's not doing a good job. The division between the fans is so unbelievably unnecessary, we support the same club, we're on the same side.
Couldn't agree more but it will unfortunately happen with the next manager.
 

Roboc7

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I don’t see anything wrong with what Blind said, it’s a widely held and fairly obvious opinion that Ole probably isn’t good enough.

Maybe Ole proves most people wrong but there’s very little to suggest he is going to suddenly develop into a much better manager. It’s a big stretch to believe Ole has loads more to offer, no matter how much would like it to be true.
 

anant

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Daley Blind won 3 major trophies at Utd in 4 seasons.

Ole has won 0 in 3 seasons.

If Blind was a ‘failure’ here, what does that make Ole?
So Mkhi is a bigger success here than Bruno?
 

Sviken

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Why are Danny Blind's comments getting this much traction?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mar...mple-the-football-is-the-better-it-is.462328/

We had this a few months ago as well. Doubt those supporting Blind today said "Look, Bielsa said this about us. Maybe, Ole is doing something right". But our responses were "With 11 amazing players, it's easy to keep football simple". So, it works both ways
I don't know what game he has watched, but United are playing anything but simple. For me simple would mean Pep's Barcelona. Utterly dominant and they made it look so goddamn easy. We look like shambles in everything we're trying to do. A 5 meter pass looks like something only a visionary in the style of prime Scholes or Xavi in this team would be able to do. There is no simplicity in our team, just utter chaos.
 

Dve

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I just didnt expect Danny Blind to criticize him at all. It's out of nowhere.
So, Blind thinks Ole hasn´t been sacked yet only because he´s a "child of the club". When have United sacked a manager ending 3rd and 2nd and that securing CL football? I smell a bit of an agenda here. Is there any Dutch players at the club not getting enough game time, perhaps? And Blind´s tenure as a coach for the Netherlands ended in tears, by the way, so he should perhaps be a bit careful about criticising others. I´m not sure what style he had his team playing, but sure they were losing a lot.
 

Dve

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We won't do it, but of course you can. A smart, proactive, club can look at a manager and decide he's just not going to succeed so they might as well replace him and give them a chance. They don't wait for his failure, which would also be their own.
The thing is, the board - who have actually been speaking to him, who know him, who have been listening to his ideas and visions - they believe in him. And so do the players, who have always been backing him, and players for other clubs, who don´t mind coming here joining his squad, and his colleges (other managers) who voted him into the top 10 list of managers in the Europe, plus the results in his first two seasons that which been extending even the fans expectations (go back and look what people in here were predicting at the start of last season). Still, a smart, proactive club would sack him? Which smart, proactive club do you have in mind?
 
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mav_9me

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The thing is, the board - who have actually been speaking to him, who know him, who have been listening to his ideas and visions - they believe in him. And so do the players, who have always been backing him, and players for other clubs, who don´t mind coming here joining his squad, and his colleges (other managers) who voted for him into the top 10 list of managers in the Europe, plus the results in his first two seasons that have been extending even the fans expectations (go back and look what people in here were predicting at the start of last season). Still, a smart, proactive club would sack him? Which smart, proactive club do you have in mind?
Not to answer for him but Bayern are an example.
 

anant

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I don't know what game he has watched, but United are playing anything but simple. For me simple would mean Pep's Barcelona. Utterly dominant and they made it look so goddamn easy. We look like shambles in everything we're trying to do. A 5 meter pass looks like something only a visionary in the style of prime Scholes or Xavi in this team would be able to do. There is no simplicity in our team, just utter chaos.
Quote from last season, but I hope you now get why the other side is not receptive to Blind's quotes.

Here we have a person with a much higher understanding of football than most saying something, but we don't agree with him for the simple reason that your views do not match his
 

Terranova

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So, Blind thinks Ole hasn´t been sacked yet only because he´s a "child of the club". When have United sacked a manager ending 3rd and 2nd and that securing CL football? I smell a bit of an agenda here. Is there any Dutch players at the club not getting enough game time, perhaps? And Blind´s tenure as a coach for the Netherlands ended in tears, by the way, so he should perhaps be a bit careful about criticising others. I´m not sure what style he had his team playing, but sure they were losing a lot.
The lack of ambition you show it not good. We shouldn't be happy with a 3rd and 2nd place. We should only be happy with a first place, we're Manchester United damnit, not Arsenal
 

Rhyme Animal

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The thing is, the board - who have actually been speaking to him, who know him, who have been listening to his ideas and visions - they believe in him. And so do the players, who have always been backing him, and players for other clubs, who don´t mind coming here joining his squad, and his colleges (other managers) who voted for him into the top 10 list of managers in the Europe, plus the results in his first two seasons that have been extending even the fans expectations (go back and look what people in here were predicting at the start of last season). Still, a smart, proactive club would sack him? Which smart, proactive club do you have in mind?
The board are utterly incompetent though…

They have failed, repeatedly, to construct a success footballing structure for years despite having a humongous financial advantage over other boards who manage to create a functional system on a shoestring compared to Utd.

Using the current Utd board’s backing as a signal of legitimacy is terrifying tbh.
 

Amir

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The thing is, the board - who have actually been speaking to him, who know him, who have been listening to his ideas and visions - they believe in him. And so do the players, who have always been backing him, and players for other clubs, who don´t mind coming here joining his squad, and his colleges (other managers) who voted for him into the top 10 list of managers in the Europe, plus the results in his first two seasons that have been extending even the fans expectations (go back and look what people in here were predicting at the start of last season). Still, a smart, proactive club would sack him? Which smart, proactive club do you have in mind?
Our board is the same bunch of people who haven't been particularly successful with managers since Ferguson retired. I'm not sure why I should be impressed by their opinions.

I don't know what our players think of him. He has good man management skills so it makes sense they'll be on his side. Most of them have not played for big, successful teams, so I'm not sure how much they are able to judge his more technical football abilities.

Players don't join Ole Gunnar Solskjaer FC. They join Manchester United. No matter who manages us, we're an attraction.

His results in his first two full seasons were pretty good. The football has never convinced me he can take us to where we want to go. And since his appointment I've always been focused on the football rather than the result.

As for a smart, proactive club, Bayern were rightly mentioned. But frankly, he wouldn't have survived past his first full season in any other big club.
 

Amir

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I smell a bit of an agenda here. Is there any Dutch players at the club not getting enough game time, perhaps?
What are the agendas of the United fans who are saying the same things? Are they anti-United because of something as well?

You don't need to have an agenda in order to say this. I'm sure Blind doesn't wake up in the night in terror, thinking 'Poor VDB'.
 

Bebestation

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The lack of ambition you show it not good. We shouldn't be happy with a 3rd and 2nd place. We should only be happy with a first place, we're Manchester United damnit, not Arsenal
The lack of ambition of a fan means shit all.
 
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Rapidly? It's been 3 years with 6 transfer windows and better part of £441m spent mate :lol:

Funny, how we went from "lows" of finishing 2nd and picking up couple of silverwares to "highs" of finishing... 2nd with lower points tally and no trophies to boot. Absolutely laughable, the guff folks write on here to deflect any criticism.
First of all, I acknowleged that improvements need to be made. The difference is, I think sticking with the current plan is better than ripping it up and hoping a new Manager will yeild a better outcome. We tried the quick fire sacking approach over 7 years, it didn't work. So I think somewhere around the same time frame should be given for a long term plan.

United were in a very low point when Ole took over, and we were miles behind City and Liverpool - in terms of points and squad quality. Yes Ole has had 3 years and moneys been spent, but the teams who were bettet than us didn't stand still during those three years, the spent and improved (from an already strong position).

The Ole Out lot claim any rationale for keeping Ole is just to 'deflect any criticism' as you put it. But that's wrong, we all see the issues but disagree with the remedy. As Fergie said, short-termism is not the right approach.
 
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arthurka

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Ole won´t win shit with this team. Still don´t see our teams progression regarding setup, tactics or style.
We have better individuals that could probably bail us out from time to time.
 

Zen86

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What are the agendas of the United fans who are saying the same things? Are they anti-United because of something as well?

You don't need to have an agenda in order to say this. I'm sure Blind doesn't wake up in the night in terror, thinking 'Poor VDB'.
Blind quite clearly has a chip on his shoulder about VdB, there’s a lot of indignation about him sitting on the bench.
 

Apokalips

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‘Counting trophies’ is how success is judged at clubs like Utd.

That’s why you chose ‘united 99’ as your username :)

You didn’t choose it because Alex Ferguson had a nice smile, did you - you chose it because Utd won 3 major trophies that season.

And that’s why Ole’s reign as Utd manager is viewed as a failure by everyone in the footballing World who isn’t a simpering, nostalgic moron.

If he’d won a couple of trophies by now - which he should have - then he wouldn’t be under such pressure right now. Because ultimately, at clubs like Utd - trophies are what matters.

That was and is Fergie’s view also btw. It isn’t anything new at Utd.

Indeed, the irony is that if Ole had the managerial ability to win a League Cup, a Europa League or an FA Cup, it’d be the likes of you and Eriku etc who’d be the first to claim it was a great achievement and a signal that he was succeeding.

And of course, you’d be right… for the same reason that as of now, you’re wrong.

Because counting trophies is what matters.
Couldn't have said it better myself, mate!
 

Giggsy13

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Well if you could read properly you would know as I stated it earlier. But it doesn’t surprise me at all that you just choose to ignore posts which don’t suit your agenda.
Brittle much? Someone has a different opinion, “you have an agenda!” :lol:
 

Dve

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But the board also has the same lack of ambition when they keep Ole if it doesn't improve
There is an "if" there, and I don´t think the board want anything else but see United winning the league; it´s just that you cannot order that just like you order breakfast. So far, our team have improved every season under Ole, so then let´s see if can improve even more, instead up discussing sacking him after a couple of bad performances and results.
 

NewUser777

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The thing is, the board - who have actually been speaking to him, who know him, who have been listening to his ideas and visions - they believe in him. And so do the players, who have always been backing him, and players for other clubs, who don´t mind coming here joining his squad, and his colleges (other managers) who voted him into the top 10 list of managers in the Europe, plus the results in his first two seasons that which been extending even the fans expectations (go back and look what people in here were predicting at the start of last season). Still, a smart, proactive club would sack him? Which smart, proactive club do you have in mind?
Very good point! The players.
 

the_cliff

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What does it say about our own manager that an apparently 'shit' manager like Danny Blind has won more than Ole, yet, can't have an opinion on Ole.
 
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