Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Client6]

@adexkola, @NZT-One
Since @NZT-One said Ole's system is similar to Fergie's systems (I don't disagree at all), I just compared league goals scored and conceded by United in 2008 (because this is arguable one of the best of Fergie's and also the most recent) and 2019-20 (Ole's first full season in charge). Also compared the subsequent seasons for both. Comparing using these metrics since @adexkola brought them up and rightly so, in my opinion.

	Goals Scored	Goals Conceded
Fergie (2008-09)	68	24
Ole (2019-20)	66	36
Fergie (2009-10)	86	28
Ole (2020-21)	73	44

Keeping in mind the differences in levels of Ole and Fergie and in levels of Ole's squad and Fergie's squad, how much "difference" do you expect in the numbers above, especially goals scored?

 

[Polar]

Winning the PL or CL will be extremely difficult tbf. We should certainly be challenging for the PL and reaching the QF of the CL.

Completely agree. We have a fair chance winning PL and also go to the semi or final in CL, but no one can expect us win neither of the titles. That’s also why it isn’t fair if Ole’s position depend on such goals.

The other cups are more “cup is cup” where anything can happen. Margins are small and often luck/unluck is a factor. These cups are difficult to predict because the best teams often have tight schedules and have to make hard choices or priorities during a long season.

I’m happy as long as we progress and are in the PL or CL race until the end of April.

 

[HailtotheKing]

We are vulnerable to counter-attacks due to structural issues in midfield, and we do not have a coordinated system of pressing to win the ball back quickly after losing it. We also suffer against low blocks sometimes because of the aforementioned style that encourages one-on-one take-ons, which means when our attackers are in poor form we can look blunt. We also lack, in my opinion, a universal understanding among the team of where attackers should run in the final third to make space, and we sometimes have issues progressing the ball up the pitch for the same reason.

Eloquently put, but don’t you think that’s a fair amount to be missing? Basically the entire structure of a team. Where each player should be positioned during an attack or defense. And sure, those 3 managers are elite, but there are many others who can do those things very well indeed. We will get better because we have bought better players, simple. Whether it’s enough we will see. Gonna be exciting though. I think the biggest thing we’re missing now is elite coaches.

 

[NZT-One]

An Arsenal supporter calling United "his" team - impersonation automatically carries an F



Thank you to both for your posts.

Non-rhetorical follow-ups:

1. So is it generally correct to summarize that apart from Pep, you think no one else in the above list REALLY has had "key patterns of play that are automated" (@adexkola) or "have set moves to attack" (@NZT-One)?
2. Do you think Pep would have been able to achieve his success if he didn't have the right players to consistently execute these "set moves"? I see a lot of player names thrown around to describe how/why a system works.
3. Is that your gripe with Ole - that there are no easily identifiable repetitive patterns as opposed to not having a system? Because there is a description that can be attributed to how Ole plays - can we call that a system? @NZT-One even describes it to some extent using his/her viewpoint.
4. Do you honestly think Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan (from our coaching staff), Fergie, Tuchel couldn't implement "set moves" if they had the players and that philosophy?

Thanks

Good questions but I feel a bit pushed towards a certain conclusion

1. It would be correct to summarize, that Pep is the one most known for set moves or specific patterns of play. Both in attack and defense. With Tuchel you could say that staying close together and moving the whole team as a unit is also pretty structured. We could add Klopps Liverpool to the mix as well, for his relentless pressing, crosses from deep and long balls to Salah and Mane. Patterns of play aren't a normed term, everybody will understand it a bit differently. What is at least mentionworthy is, that all those 3 coaches are able to have their teams playing pretty consistent and with pretty limited changes when switching personnel. Of course this can also be attributed to the high level of players in these clubs, but when compared to Manchester United, the way of playing comes somewhat to a full stop without Bruno (at least last year).

2. There isn't a start and an end to this formula. Without good players, even the best plan will fail. On the other hand a good plan can be the difference between two teams of similar quality (players-wise).
So yes, Pep is just as reliant on his key players as anybody else. The style of play doesn't really change though drastically - if Aguero, Jesus or Torres was playing last year. They also managed to get by without KDB and they are on a good course finalize the transition away from D. Silva. It remains to be seen, if they will replace Fernandinho because Rodri, for all his qualities, isn't giving them, what the Brazilian was able to give. Regarding the output, have a look at fbref, look at the fixture list of Chelsea after takeover or City. They are reliably able to create good chances while also being able to restrict the opposition team, this, to me is a sign, that there is some stability factor in there and while that obviously could be the high level of players, in the case of Chelsea, this factor remained unchanged after takeover while the output changed drastically.

3. Call it system, usual game plan, philosophy. Again terms that are used interchangebly but without a commonly agreed on meaning. I can tell, that I don't want Ole to turn into Pep and to increase his rigidness towards a more repetitive pattern. What I think though, is that most of our players would benefit from having more and/or clearer instruction regarding what to do, when and how. While brave and creative players like Bruno and Pogba might thrive without the leashes, I think, most players benefit from having a structure around them. A layer they can fall back on. I would never ever want to take the creativity and swagger out of Bruno but I think to become a dominant top team, we have to find a way to a) maximize the output of as many of our players as possible and b) to make it as easy as possible to rotate players.

4. That is a weird question. I am sure, Fergie would have found a way to do so if he wanted to. I don't think, he saw the necessity to do so (which is surely connected that back then, not a lot of teams made use of such detailed structures to such a degree). Fergies United was very much able to switch between possession based and transition based, agressive pressing from the front to defending deep. So Fergie, back then had more to his sleeve, you always got the feeling, that we could kick up a gear or two to force something. This is, up to now, something, I can't see in our team.
I am pretty sure, the current Set of coaches could implement "patterns of play" as well, but either they don't see the need to so or they aren't doing a good job in that regard. And to make that clear: I don't think, there is no chance that a more freedom-based approach like Oles current system is able to achieve something, that would be insane looking at the squad we have. My angle is this: what kind of football could this team be able to play if we would adapt a more structured approach? When I see, what kind of football and speed of play Potter is able to get out of his players, wouldn't it be exciting to see, what our players may be able to?

 

[largelyworried]

Ole seems like the type of guy who is very careful about who he surrounds himself with. We had issues with set pieces and he's made moves to address that on the coaching staff with (IMO) some early signs of success.

I dont think we will ever be this team that has the clear structure that so many crave - though I do also feel that it's massively overstated on here - but I'm fine with that and I don't believe that it will hamper us. I think we have improved immensely at controlling matches and playing them on our terms, and I don't see Ole being either (a) too stubborn to shake things up if needed or (b) not smart enough to identify that need if its there.

I think the problem can be overstated for sure, he isnt an amateur or a PE teacher or whatever the insults are. Its just the level we're playing at. Our ambition over the next 5 years should be multiple league and Champions League wins. For that I think we'll need a manager who can be considered among the 3 or 4 best in Europe. I don't think there's a case to be made that Ole is at that level now. He may get there, but I also don't really see that he's on that kind of trajectory either.

We are better than we were at controlling games, but from quite a low start. If you look at last season's results, other than the unusual goalfests against Southampton & Leeds, there arent that many games where we controlled the match from start to finish. The kind of games we routinely see from City and Liverpool (before last seasons meltdown) where they start strong, get a goal then don't give the opposition a sniff for the rest of the game, are pretty rare from us.

 

[NZT-One]

@adexkola, @NZT-One
Since @NZT-One said Ole's system is similar to Fergie's systems (I don't disagree at all), I just compared league goals scored and conceded by United in 2008 (because this is arguable one of the best of Fergie's and also the most recent) and 2019-20 (Ole's first full season in charge). Also compared the subsequent seasons for both. Comparing using these metrics since @adexkola brought them up and rightly so, in my opinion.

	Goals Scored	Goals Conceded
Fergie (2008-09)	68	24
Ole (2019-20)	66	36
Fergie (2009-10)	86	28
Ole (2020-21)	73	44

Keeping in mind the differences in levels of Ole and Fergie and in levels of Ole's squad and Fergie's squad, how much "difference" do you expect in the numbers above, especially goals scored?

Very difficult to compare such specific numbers considering different levels of players (own and opposition), schedules and international competitions in between.
When I compare the Fergies team of 2008 and 2009 and Oles from last year, I would say, that Oles attack (given the right circumstances) can be pretty devastating and definitely isn't lightyears away from 2008.
The differences though are that Oles attack is easier to stop (I feel) and Fergies team had way more things in the arsenal, thinking of the elite level of dribbling of Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs and Evra, having some awesome set piece takers and being very dangerous using headers (from crosses and set pieces). This is, what Oles team lacked somewhat last year (which isn't a dig, the 2007/08 squad was ridiculous) and some of it, might turn out differently this year thinking of Varane and Ronaldo for headers and set pieces.

 

[Bobcat]

Has he? I am not so sure about this. I mean, it isn't like Ole is the first one to try him in midfield, Jose did as well. Next to Matic. And I have not many fond memories about it. Pogba just isn't great at spacial awareness, he lacks the aggressiveness and workrate to work in midfield two that is needed to give defensive stability to our team. Just blaming Fred seems wrong to me, Fred is part of a team, and if he is alone against one of the best dribblers in the league more than once in a game, then I know there are few things to adress after talking to Fred about his (undenied) lapsus.

I agree with the conclusion, but I think, it is highly speculative to say we missed players to "play the way we want" because it is difficult to say, if there even is such a way. Plus I always have a feeling that a very fundamental part is missing in such thinking: the opponent. The opponent has at least as much influence in how we play as our own players do. And our opponents will continue to react on our strengths, therefor the manager isn't needed to come up with the golden formula once in his tenure, it is a constant job to adjust it once he may have found it.

Pogba is not a DM true, but hes had several games in CM where hes had a "mature" performance and done his job well. Pogba and Matic i agree are not a very good partnership, especially against more competent midfields. Not blaming Fred really, i think he should be one of the first names on the team sheet, i just pointed out he was very poor vs Wolves, which he was.

Also, i did not mean that we could not play like we wanted last year, but adding Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo means we can play more like we want

 

[Client6]

@NZT-One

Thanks for your posts. I will keep this brief. My take is this:

The recurrent theme I am seeing in posts here around making "systems"/"patterns" work is to have the right squad of players and not just a starting XI, which, you have to admit, takes time to build.

At United, players that did not suit the system or could not be coached were moved out by Ole. Players that the management thought they could use have been kept around. Players that the management thought could improve the team have been bought. This is work in progress.

Don't think anyone is saying Ole is better than Pep, Fergie, Klopp, Tuchel etc - he has quite some distance to go. But to say there is no progress in performances or in establishing an identity is disingenuous. There is clearly a system/philosophy, it is evident to see; it may not be "repeatable, automated patterns of play".

 

[AgentSmith]

Discussions about Ole’s ability as a coach aside (which do have a lot of genuine merit) I think the transformative effect he’s engendered throughout the club can’t be faulted.

How’s this for a comparison...

Ole’s first game as manager on 22/12/18:

De Gea
Young - Lindelof - Jones - Shaw
Herrera - Matic
Lingard - Pogba - Martial
Rashford​

with basically zero depth on the bench.

Ole’s most recent game as manager on 11/9/21:

De Gea
AWB - Varane - Maguire - Shaw
Pogba - Matic
Greenwood - Bruno - Sancho
Ronaldo​

with players like Cavani, Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Henderson etc. in reserve and prospects like Hannibal and Amad on the horizon.

2 years and 8 months to transform our squad from that to that with a global pandemic that stopped football running through the the midst of it. Not bad.

And it’s not even just the quality of the squad, it’s the fact they’ve become an extremely likeable bunch under Ole. He’s reunited the fans and the players in a way we haven’t seen since Fergie and that shouldn’t be underestimated.

 

[Womp]

@NZT-One

Thanks for your posts. I will keep this brief. My take is this:

The recurrent theme I am seeing in posts here around making "systems"/"patterns" work is to have the right squad of players and not just a starting XI, which, you have to admit, takes time to build.

At United, players that did not suit the system or could not be coached were moved out by Ole. Players that the management thought they could use have been kept around. Players that the management thought could improve the team have been bought. This is work in progress.

Don't think anyone is saying Ole is better than Pep, Fergie, Klopp, Tuchel etc - he has quite some distance to go. But to say there is no progress in performances or in establishing an identity is disingenuous. There is clearly a system/philosophy, it is evident to see; it may not be "repeatable, automated patterns of play".

I was asleep so wasn't able to respond to your original response, but it seems the others have covered all the bases so I'll just respond to this one instead - I don't think anyone is suggesting Ole doesn't have a system. Every manager in football would have a system, otherwise what exactly is the point of hiring one. The suggestion is that, his pragmatic style isn't making the most out of the squad and may not be enough in a climate where the top managers place so much emphasis on improving the collective level of their squads. It's not a slight on him, he's not the only pragmatic coach that is struggling - see Mourinho etc. I feel that style is only really sustainable when the squad you have at your disposal is just far better than your competitors - a privilege we won't have in England.

Teams that know how to move, move the ball around quicker and win the ball back with coordinated pressing quicker are just going to win more games over a season than a team that just has very good individuals that is extremely reliant on quick transitions and counter attacks.

I mean 3-4 years into his reign and is it really any surprise that we still look great in games like Leeds where we have space to operate in, but can look clueless at times in games where we have limited space to operate in/are pressed ala Southampton, Wolves, Newcastle.

As long as the results are coming in, I'm not going to complain, because at the end of the day, regardless of what I think about the performances, as long as he's getting results, that's all anyone should care about, but there are genuine concerns on how sustainable these results are, the same exact concerns that were prevelent last season due to our inability to control games, progress into the final third, to press as a collective, to move the ball quickly, to move off the ball etc.

 

[WR10]

As much as fans debate - all that matters to the board is do the shareholders love him? The answer is a resounding yes. Ole has done wonders in reigniting the money-making colossus brand that is Manchester United. That's all that really matters to the board. If we win trophies, that's just a bonus to them.

 

[r0663664]

I simply don’t think Ole can win us the league. I watch Liverpool played against Leeds, they curve out chances after chances, Mane should had score a hat trick easily. City is City, they hold on to possession that opponents only get a couple of chances to score. Chelsea is very organized and good in attack. The title will only end up with these 3 contenders. Heck, we might finish 2nd and give us false hope that we will win the league within 1-2 years. I think what Ole has done is great, he is building a team for the short and long term. He is not the man that will bring us titles. We had many opportunities to get a great manager that could be a game changer. We shall see if Ole can win us the title which I doubt.

 

[AshRK]

Very good debate. I feel Ole has to be credited for the squad he has built. But now we must win a silverware and challenge for the title. No more excuses.

 

[afrocentricity]

I simply don’t think Ole can win us the league. I watch Liverpool played against Leeds, they curve out chances after chances, Mane should had score a hat trick easily. City is City, they hold on to possession that opponents only get a couple of chances to score. Chelsea is very organized and good in attack. The title will only end up with these 3 contenders. Heck, we might finish 2nd and give us false hope that we will win the league within 1-2 years. I think what Ole has done is great, he is building a team for the short and long term. He is not the man that will bring us titles. We had many opportunities to get a great manager that could be a game changer. We shall see if Ole can win us the title which I doubt.

That's the spirit!

 

[edcunited1878]

I simply don’t think Ole can win us the league. I watch Liverpool played against Leeds, they curve out chances after chances, Mane should had score a hat trick easily. City is City, they hold on to possession that opponents only get a couple of chances to score. Chelsea is very organized and good in attack. The title will only end up with these 3 contenders. Heck, we might finish 2nd and give us false hope that we will win the league within 1-2 years. I think what Ole has done is great, he is building a team for the short and long term. He is not the man that will bring us titles. We had many opportunities to get a great manager that could be a game changer. We shall see if Ole can win us the title which I doubt.

The players have to be good enough to win titles as well. And we've all seen Chelsea strengthen within the past two years and fill a massive void with a top goal scorer. City have the best quality depth and player continuity. Liverpool have a top starting XI and player continuity, and they are healthy. United were behind these 3 teams going into last year in terms of player quality, yet did well to finish 2nd.

And after this transfer window, which addressed three of four positions of need, United are closer to winning the league. Ole can send out the first team and try to win the League Cup, but we know that's not going to cut it. FA Cup isn't what they're after either. It's the league and a European trophy. United have to continue building their squad to compete with the other top teams and then beat them to the top. It's not going to take one manager and then it changes.

I think everybody has their own doubts about Ole as a manager, especially when you know Pep and Klopp are in the same league. But to make such a definitive conclusion about the manager and his squad, that's unfair. Focus on the season at hand and see what happens. United have had issues with consistency and beating the lower side teams or holding onto leads. Even last year, there are about five matches (e.g. Sheffield, Everton, WBA, Arsenal, Palace) you say to yourself, you have to win these matches in order to really challenge. And that's never just on the manager. The players have to be mature, experienced enough, and talented to find ways to win the matches in combo with the manager.

So with that, United are at least 10 to 15 points better off just by adding Varane, Ronaldo, Sancho, and another year of Cavani and a developed Greenwood. The central midfield will be a slugfest, but an on form and functioning Fred and McTominay can be the water carriers the team needs and has shown to be.

 

[pav1790]

Some of you lot would throw out the baby with the bathwater.

You slate and disrespect our current manager because you want your latest crush in charge of our club. I don't believe there's an iota of sincerity in most arguments. Fabricated and framed in order to be particularly damning. ( Self serving, they are called ) Always the worst view of the events. Like with Ole's throwaway hyperbole about Ronaldo scoring 90% of the shots.

Patterns of play - whatever the hell that is - are all well and fine. But this is football, not synchronized swimming. Few managers in the world are philosophers of football - and all the philosophy in the world will not materialize results. Fewer still are pioneers who revolutionize the game. But not all of them win.

Winning is an entirely different skill which can't be coached. It can be nurtured, encouraged - or you've already got it. And for that, we have the perfect man for the job. Just have some respect, stop being miserable for a second, and cheer us on. And hope that next season you don't have "no trophies" argument after we win the double.

 

[meamth]

Don't be fooled, those coaches aren't qualified to train professional players, they don't know what are they doing. Caf experts claimed.

 

[Womp]

Don't be fooled, those coaches aren't qualified to train professional players, they don't know what are they doing. Caf experts claimed.

You're trying to be condescending but with all due respect, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? They did a few running warm up drills followed up by some stretches and lastly some man in the middle passing drills. That is probably as basic as football gets? We do that in my Sunday league team.

 

[pav1790]

You're trying to be condescending but with all due respect, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? They did a few running warm up drills followed up by some stretches and lastly some man in the middle passing drills. That is probably as basic as football gets? We do that in my Sunday league team.

We are back to PE teacher. I wonder what necrotic festering pus grows in the souls of some men where there should be joy, mirth, irony, love and optimism.

 

[AjaxCunian]

You're trying to be condescending but with all due respect, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? They did a few running warm up drills followed up by some stretches and lastly some man in the middle passing drills. That is probably as basic as football gets? We do that in my Sunday league team.

Probably hoping no one would actually watch it.

 

[Womp]

We are back to PE teacher. I wonder what necrotic festering pus grows in the souls of some men where there should be joy, mirth, irony, love and optimism.

What? Where did I call him a PE teacher? That video is a fecking laughable example of progressive and acceptable coaching as it's extremely basic footballing concepts that you'd expect to see from Sunday league teams.

Jeez, this 'Ole in' crowd seem to be so touchy. My post didn't even mention Ole, nor did the original post I was quoting, don't let that stop you from going off on a passionate rant though

 

[roonster09]

That training video is open for media, they won't do any drills except warm up and few very basic ones;.

 

[Virror]

I simply don’t think Ole can win us the league. I watch Liverpool played against Leeds, they curve out chances after chances, Mane should had score a hat trick easily. City is City, they hold on to possession that opponents only get a couple of chances to score. Chelsea is very organized and good in attack. The title will only end up with these 3 contenders. Heck, we might finish 2nd and give us false hope that we will win the league within 1-2 years. I think what Ole has done is great, he is building a team for the short and long term. He is not the man that will bring us titles. We had many opportunities to get a great manager that could be a game changer. We shall see if Ole can win us the title which I doubt.

Well we carved out quite a lot of chances against Leeds as well, and Bruno actually scored a hattrick.

 

[Womp]

That training video is open for media, they won't do any drills except warm up and few very basic ones;.

Which is a fair point, which makes using it as justification for how acceptable our coaching standards are even more baffling. I genuinely just didn't know what I was supposed to be watching in that video for someone to condescendingly mock the opinions of people who think the coaching isn't to an acceptable standard. Wanted to ensure I wasn't missing something.

 

[meamth]

You're trying to be condescending but with all due respect, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? They did a few running warm up drills followed up by some stretches and lastly some man in the middle passing drills. That is probably as basic as football gets? We do that in my Sunday league team.

Nothing.
Just trying to make the point across that "LACK OF COACHING" agenda is stupid as hell.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Nothing.
Just trying to make the point across that "LACK OF COACHING" agenda is stupid as hell.

How were you trying to? Since this video barely encapturea coaching.

 

[meamth]

How were you trying to? Since this video barely encapturea coaching.

...Do you really need a video to explain how good our coaches is?

They've done their badges. What the feck we all know? Bad or good? Doesn't matter, until we win a trophy then the lack of coaching thing is dead and buried.

 

[pav1790]

What? Where did I call him a PE teacher? That video is a fecking laughable example of progressive and acceptable coaching as it's extremely basic footballing concepts that you'd expect to see from Sunday league teams.

Jeez, this 'Ole in' crowd seem to be so touchy. My post didn't even mention Ole, nor did the original post I was quoting, don't let that stop you from going off on a passionate rant though

The quoted part is quite on the nose.

Also, quite chuffed to have finally found out that I have your full approval to - and I quote - "going off on a passionate rant". Much obliged.

 

[Real Name]

...Do you really need a video to explain how good our coaches is?

They've done their badges. What the feck we all know? Bad or good? Doesn't matter, until we win a trophy then the lack of coaching thing is dead and buried.

Come on now, I bet guys who watched a coaching lesson on Facebook or Youtube know better than our supposed coaches.

Comparisons with Pep, Tuchel and Klopp are getting boring and are just used to have a dig at Ole time and time again. Is he on their level? No. Did he finish 3rd and 2nd in the last seasons? Yes. Of course we could have maybe done better but whatever good he's done at the club is downgraded and not even mentioned sometimes and negatives are exaggerated. Thing is, either he's a PE teacher and players have done all the success themselves or he knows a thing or 2 about coaching and some things are thanks to him.. Despite the fact we dont have famous paTTerns of PlaY... I mean last season we were 3rd in goals scored and pretty good in goals conceded too (cant remember the rank) despite the fact our defence was supposedly crap. So with new players, one of them being fekin Ronaldo, we might do even better this year and that Ole, who knows nothing about coaching but just smiles and tells them to run and have fun, might even lead us to glory.
But no, 5 games into the season and he's again shite and we wont succeed with him.

 

[meamth]

Come on now, I bet guys who watched a coaching lesson on Facebook or Youtube know better than our supposed coaches.

Why are we poorly coached? - Still baffles me to this day.

 

[Real Name]

Why are we poorly coached? - Still baffles me to this day.

Repeat after me.

We.
Dont.
Have.
Patterns.
Of.
Play.

 

[b82REZ]

...Do you really need a video to explain how good our coaches is?

But you did though

 

[Womp]

The quoted part is quite on the nose.

Also, quite chuffed to have finally found out that I have your full approval to - and I quote - "going off on a passionate rant". Much obliged.

You're right, some warm up drills and man in the middle are clear signs of exceptional coaching. My apologies.

 

[pav1790]

You're right, some warm up drills and man in the middle are clear signs of exceptional coaching. My apologies.

All water under the bridge. Let us not speak any more of this. Let's instead support the club we both love.

 

[AjaxCunian]

...Do you really need a video to explain how good our coaches is?

They've done their badges. What the feck we all know? Bad or good? Doesn't matter, until we win a trophy then the lack of coaching thing is dead and buried.

So to you every professional club has good coaching then, that's good to know, good to know your stance.

 

[Eriku]

So to you every professional club has good coaching then, that's good to know, good to know your stance.

To be fair, every professional club has good coaching. It certainly isn’t anywhere near as poor as people like to say.

Why does everything have to be either shite or brilliant on here?

 

[AjaxCunian]

To be fair, every professional club has good coaching. It certainly isn’t anywhere near as poor as people like to say.

Why does everything have to be either shite or brilliant on here?

Okay, it's good to know you all stand there.

Every professional footballer is also an academy graduate, so maybe we can level all footballers by that as well. Well, probably very close to 100% of the footballers.

No one is saying it has to be brilliant or shite, but to some, to me, there are certainly differences in levels which are quite easily to be seen.

Yeah both Ole and Pep and Klopp have got their badges, but to me tactically and how they've coached there teams there is a significant difference for the worse for us, I think most neutrals would agree. That wouldnt be the end of the world as we can make up for it in squad quality and other coaches etc, but it's silly ti just reduce it to "badges to me", nor do you need ti have a "badge" to see it, similarly as I don't need to be an academy graduate to see Messi is a better player than Martial let's say.

 

[Eriku]

Okay, it's good to know you all stand there.

Every professional footballer is also an academy graduate, so maybe we can level all footballers by that as well. Well, probably very close to 100% of the footballers.

No one is saying it has to be brilliant or shite, but to some, to me, there are certainly differences in levels which are quite easily to be seen.

Yeah both Ole and Pep and Klopp have got their badges, but to me tactically and how they've coached there teams there is a significant difference for the worse for us, I think most neutrals would agree. That wouldnt be the end of the world as we can make up for it in squad quality and other coaches etc, but it's silly ti just reduce it to "badges to me", nor do you need ti have a "badge" to see it, similarly as I don't need to be an academy graduate to see Messi is a better player than Martial let's say.

We all? I don’t represent a monolith, you know?

And for the record, pro footballers are waaaaay better at the game than your average person can fathom. I know there are levels, but the clueless, no patterns, etc. nonsense really needs to piss off.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Very good debate. I feel Ole has to be credited for the squad he has built. But now we must win a silverware and challenge for the title. No more excuses.

"No MORE excuses" implies there have been excuses for Ole. Itsvsuch a negative way to look at it. There has not been excuses, yes there have been reasons why United were just not good enough. Ole has had to transform the squad. He inherited a shed load of deadwood.

No more excuses is just another way for the ABU crew and Ole outers to imply we have been making excuses for Ole as a fanbase and put a negative spin out.

Overall though I agree with the target, now that Ole has transformed the squad, improved player morale and raised expectations. We must win a silverware and challenge for the title.

 

[b82REZ]

"No MORE excuses" implies there have been excuses for Ole. Itsvsuch a negative way to look at it. There has not been excuses, yes there have been reasons why United were just not good enough. Ole has had to transform the squad. He inherited a shed load of deadwood.

You do understand that these are excuses?