Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Castia]

Make or break this season for Ole. I’m not sure a 4th place finish would keep him in the job he needs to be winning a trophy and challenging for the title with that squad.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Solskjaer was very attacking at Molde from what I saw. And in the games Varane has started we've looked to play with more risk imo. But in the Young Boys game, we had Lindelof and Maguire starting, so I'm wondering if Solskjaer reverted to type because he doesn't trust the pairing in 1v1 scenarios without fullback/midfield assistance. So i'm intrigued to see how we setup with and with out Varane and if a pattern emerges as far as how we approach games.

I suppose we'll see how we approach the big games this season.

 

[Green Arrow]

Make or break this season for Ole. I’m not sure a 4th place finish would keep him in the job he needs to be winning a trophy and challenging for the title with that squad.

Going by previous examples typically when a we finish in top four the manager stays, he's just signed a new contract with the club. We've seen before that with the clubs ambitions getting top four is all the matters to them. We finished second last season (Which was great) if we finish in the top four this season is that "Progress" obviously not.
However with the squad he has now I would like to think all that has changed, we need to be challenging for the title and getting far into the champions league. Ole needs to change is mindset now he has to deliver or he will be off.

 

[Rash Decision]

Solskjaer was very attacking at Molde from what I saw. And in the games Varane has started we've looked to play with more risk imo. But in the Young Boys game, we had Lindelof and Maguire starting, so I'm wondering if Solskjaer reverted to type because he doesn't trust the pairing in 1v1 scenarios without fullback/midfield assistance. So i'm intrigued to see how we setup with and with out Varane and if a pattern emerges as far as how we approach games.

From what I recall was said just before he joined, he was very attacking and also favoured a high-pressing, possession-heavy approach based on a 433 setup. Quite different from how we play under him now. He may have tried to implement that when he first came to us, but has since moved away from it.

 

[EtH]

I wish someone would ring up Rene Muelensteen. Think he could solve much of our in-game tactical issues. An experienced and astute assistant next to OGS would make all the difference in the world as obviously Carrick and McKenna are out of their depth at this level. Which is no surprise considering their lack of experience.

 

[Wumminator]

Sure, here I get comments like these whenever I'll say that x player is great or when I say that Klopp and Pep are on different planet from Ole

That’s fair enough. I can certainly see why that would get annoying.

but… it is also a month old.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Our competition is City Liverpool Chelsea and for the first time since Ole started the squad is strong enough to challenge. So It's a question of if Ole is good enough to compete with these teams that have the best coaches. The obvious answer would be no when you look at the history of Ole and these coaches. Ok forget about the history, if you look at the tactics and style of play of these coaches compared to Ole the answer will still be no Ole isn't good enough.

I'm just holding on to the fact that he's been able to progress the team in the league from 6th to 3rd to 2nd. Let's see if he can take that extra step

 

[Adnan]

From what I recall was said just before he joined, he was very attacking and also favoured a high-pressing, possession-heavy approach based on a 433 setup. Quite different from how we play under him now. He may have tried to implement that when he first came to us, but has since moved away from it.

That's what he said he wanted to do and what he actually implemented at Molde. But IMO he made a mistake in his first proper transfer window and signed players that weren't conducive to playing the brand of football he spoke of implementing. I was quite vocal at the time in saying that he had signed the wrong players for the style of play he's speaking of implementing. So signing Varane (who fits the profile) to attempt to play with more risk was very important and more important than signing a midfielder if he wants to attempt to finally realise his vision which he has spoken about. It'll be interesting to see if he actually succeeds in implementing the play style in question. He did try to attempt it last season but we lost heavily to Spurs and in the post match interview he said 'that won't happen again' and we then resorted to playing Fred and McTominay in front of the back 4.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Make or break this season for Ole. I’m not sure a 4th place finish would keep him in the job he needs to be winning a trophy and challenging for the title with that squad.

Not in this club. Top 4 keeps him on the bench. Glazers are happy with that. With Ronaldo in the squad we got huge PR boost so money will come no matter are we winning things or not.
Only thing which can sack Ole is missing top 4 or incredible run of defeats which basically can't happen with this squad. Any manager would finish 4th with this team.
City, Chelsea, Pool and United are miles above the rest of the league

 

[padzilla]

Mourinho was one of the best managers available when we hired him and look how that turned out. Nobody is saying that Ole is better just that Conte isn't the right fit. Appointing him if we sack Ole is what the old United would do. I would like to think we have a structure in place now and an identity and we would go after a progressive coach.

Mourinho was coming off a complete collapse at Chelsea which should have been a huge red flag.
Our next manager needs to be a hot property coming up like Nagelsmann or even Fergie in the mid-80s, not someone who has peaked somewhere else already.

 

[padzilla]

Not in this club. Top 4 keeps him on the bench. Glazers are happy with that. With Ronaldo in the squad we got huge PR boost so money will come no matter are we winning things or not.
Only thing which can sack Ole is missing top 4 or incredible run of defeats which basically can't happen with this squad. Any manager would finish 4th with this team.
City, Chelsea, Pool and United are miles above the rest of the league

I literally cannot think of a manager bad enough not to finish top four with this squad.
It has to be a credible title challenge and getting out of the group in the CL as bare minimum with this squad.

 

[Adnan]

This might sound like an excuse but I think the preconceived notion of "Away CL games are tougher" played a role and on top of that our players looked very uncomfortable on that pitch. Looked like they were more worried about not falling while running than passing the ball.

Tbh with you that could be true and if we're honest, he's still in a good position both domestically and in Europe and has the time to change a narrative which will dangle around his neck until he wins a major trophy. I'm just hoping he starts approaching most games with a proactive mindset. And if he does that then I feel things could go in his favour.

 

[Rash Decision]

That's what he said he wanted to do and what he actually implemented at Molde. But IMO he made a mistake in his first proper transfer window and signed players that weren't conducive to playing the brand of football he spoke of implementing. I was quite vocal at the time in saying that he had signed the wrong players for the style of play he's speaking of implementing. So signing Varane (who fits the profile) to attempt to play with more risk was very important and more important than signing a midfielder if he wants to attempt to finally realise his vision which he has spoken about. It'll be interesting to see if he actually succeeds in implementing the play style in question. He did try to attempt it last season but we lost heavily to Spurs and in the post match interview he said 'that won't happen again' and we then resorted to playing Fred and McTominay in front of the back 4.

Good to know that he has done it before at least, albeit at a much lower level. In your view, do we already have the players he needs to realise his vision? The midfield still seems lacking to me and I’m not sure our attackers complement each other very well as they are mostly goalscorers apart from Sancho.

 

[redshaw]

Pretty sure I read that Ole said the whole 4-3-3 stint was him not yet implementing his own ideas fully. It will get put down as new manager bounce but I think it's the best formation for Pogba and Matic looked revitalized for a while and Herrera was playing well, Pogba was working great with the forwards, it was flowing, we also had no pressure and Ole was talking a good game back then after the misery of Jose.

We shot up the table from 8th to 3rd, then we had something to lose, Ole put in his own formation plus we had injuries in midfield, Herrera not being played with contract problems plus a poor comeback game against Wolves. Matic looking awful again we went on a very bad run which we finished 6th, this continued into the new season with absolute shit football with around 1 win 5 until Jan and Bruno made it work. We were monitoring Bruno but he could've gone elsewhere easily, we're very lucky to finally get him in Jan.

 

[Rash Decision]

I literally cannot think of a manager bad enough not to finish top four with this squad.

Arteta maybe?

Steve Bruce, Alan Pardew, Big Sam, Tony Pulis etc.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Arteta maybe?

Steve Bruce, Alan Pardew, Big Sam, Tony Pulis etc.

You are saying that they are worse managers than Ole? Based on what?
To be clear here, i am not saying that they are better but i would love to hear why exactly they are bellow Ole?

 

[Rash Decision]

You are saying that they are worse managers than Ole? Based on what?
To be clear here, i am not saying that they are better but i would love to hear why exactly they are bellow Ole?

I just wanted to get in a dig at Arteta tbh.

If you’re referring specifically to coaching ability, I don’t know how to compare them. Perhaps they’re good at different things. Big Sam’s a relegation fight specialist. None of the others have won a league anywhere if I’m not mistaken, nor do they have experience managing a club of this stature.

 

[anant]

I literally cannot think of a manager bad enough not to finish top four with this squad.
It has to be a credible title challenge and getting out of the group in the CL as bare minimum with this squad.

We finished 6th when we had Zlatan, Pogba, etc. under a "born winner" manager and Pool didn't have VVD and Alisson, so I'm pretty sure that there are sufficient number of managers who'd fail to get top 4

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We finished 6th when we had Zlatan, Pogba, etc. under a "born winner" manager and Pool didn't have VVD and Alisson, so I'm pretty sure that there are sufficient number of managers who'd fail to get top 4

Our squad now is way better than it was then.

That said, Jose failed in that league season.

 

[Adnan]

Good to know that he has done it before at least, albeit at a much lower level. In your view, do we already have the players he needs to realise his vision? The midfield still seems lacking to me and I’m not sure our attackers complement each other very well as they are mostly goalscorers apart from Sancho.

I honestly believe we have the players to play the brand of football he's spoken of wanting to play, especially against the so called lesser teams. But I wouldn't expect him to play that way against the likes of City, Chelsea and Liverpool. Those games I would expect to be tighter games where if we're away from home then playing on the counter is a very viable option.

The midfield is lacking but we still have players who can do serious damage from central midfield against any team. Players like Pogba and even VdB have the technical ability to do damage in a approach that wants to dominate the game. And most of our games will be against teams other than Liverpool, Chelsea and City. Against the aforementioned 3, it would be fine to play poker on the counter IMO.

I also think our attack is very good. There will be teething problems which we're currently seeing due to new arrivals settling in to the team. But the more they play together the better I'm expecting them to become as a attacking unit. Pogba and Sancho are creators which compliments the likes of Cavani, Ronaldo, Rashford, Mason, Martial etc.

Personally I think we should be alittle bit more patient due to how early it is in the season.

 

[Samid]

Am I the only one that thinks he lacks courage in key moments? Not even trying to criticise him, just an observation.
Ferguson was a gambler, Ole strikes me as the opposite personality. He's a cautious coach.
All his decisions on Tuesday had reason behind them. They were rational decisions that someone averse to risk would take.

Not sure Fergie was a gambler in similar situations, in fact I'd say he was very pragmatic. Away games in the CL and against domestic rivals he used to pack the midfield in a 451-ish formation. Aim was to first and foremost keep a clean sheet because a point was valuable. Obviously that doesn't mean the double decker was parked for 90 minutes but our approach was definitely more controlled and balanced in those games.

I think Ole is trying to follow the same blueprint in those games. It's not working because you need a high level of cohesion to effectively switch between formations from game to game. We don't have that yet, most likely because Ole's coaching team isn't anywhere near Fergie's. When we go for a more defensive minded selection/formation the players automatically go into a "we're now Burnley, we need to drop deeper and defend for our lives" mode. I can't possibly imagine that being the coaching team's intent when they make those decisions.

Until we develop that pragmatic approach through work on the training ground we should really be sticking to a front foot approach in almost all games. Yes we might lose a couple of more games but we'd also be turning a lot of the draws into wins. If we're serious about challenging for the league then we need to win 27+ games. We can't afford the draws.

 

[Tom Cato]

You are saying that they are worse managers than Ole? Based on what?
To be clear here, i am not saying that they are better but i would love to hear why exactly they are bellow Ole?

Arsenal has invested massively in the squad and are nowhere near top6 for 2 years running and scored 1 in 4 games this season.... for starters?

 

[11101]

What we have seen (again) this Champions League week is the difference a top manager makes.

Liverpool went down 2-1 and Klopp started to make subss to change the game. They got back to 3-2 and then he made two double substitutions that killed Milan's game. Pep did a similar thing when Leipzig were beginning to grow into the game, he made substitutions and the balance turned back and City ran away with it.

Ole on the other hand made subs that killed our own game and opened things up for Young Boys to attack us.

They weren't born as top managers obviously, they had to learn, but Pep has been doing this only one year longer than Ole. He is not learning from his mistakes and that is the problem.

 

[Jaxa]

What we have seen (again) this Champions League week is the difference a top manager makes.

Liverpool went down 2-1 and Klopp started to make subss to change the game. They got back to 3-2 and then he made two double substitutions that killed Milan's game. Pep did a similar thing when Leipzig were beginning to grow into the game, he made substitutions and the balance turned back and City ran away with it.

Ole on the other hand made subs that killed our own game and opened things up for Young Boys to attack us.

They weren't born as top managers obviously, they had to learn, but Pep has been doing this only one year longer than Ole. He is not learning from his mistakes and that is the problem.

I would agree with this part, that's very worrying. Ole's biggest weakness has been his in game management and use of subs yet it never seems to get better, just more and more bizarre

 

[AjaxCunian]

Where did "PE teacher' come from? Was it widely used before Ole and why is it just Ole that is being accused of being no more than a PE teacher?

 

[Adisa]

Link is still working fine for me and others, not sure what the issue could be. Maybe region?

Later worked. Thanks.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I'm genuinely curious - why do you all put yourselves through this negativity and toxicity when you know he won't be sacked? It's not good for your mental health.

 

[Anustart89]

All the excuses are coming out now. Ole needs a world class squad without a single hole in it. Ole needs a world class coach for every scenario. Ole needs a world class structure at board level around him. We’re just before the bit where we demand that Ole’s wife needs to be world class too to properly support him at home so he can succeed here.

At what point does it become a case of the structure, coaches and players needing somebody else than Ole?

 

[Desert Eagle]

I'm genuinely curious - why do you all put yourselves through this negativity and toxicity when you know he won't be sacked? It's not good for your mental health.

Dealing with reality and releasing negative energy in a harmless way is probably much better mentally than stoicism mixed with a splash of delusion. But to each their own.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Mourinho was coming off a complete collapse at Chelsea which should have been a huge red flag.
Our next manager needs to be a hot property coming up like Nagelsmann or even Fergie in the mid-80s, not someone who has peaked somewhere else already.

Yeah the signs were there for sure but he was still considered one of the best managers around. He had won the league with Chelsea the previous year. And I couldn't agree more on the second part. If Ole goes then we need to go after a young coach that plays progressive football and has his best years ahead. I want to see United have sustained success again. I believe we're on the right track.

 

[Tony247]

Only under Ole we can be world class in one match and then 3 days later mockery of the world. Happens when you solely depend on individual brilliance.

 

[Godfather]

The rollercoaster we are in with him is no good for my heart. These ups followed shortly by big downs will do me. At least under LvG we were boring for 90% of the time so we knew exactly what was coming. Now we can beat pretty much everyone but also lose to pretty much every shit out there.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm genuinely curious - why do you all put yourselves through this negativity and toxicity when you know he won't be sacked? It's not good for your mental health.

What you call toxicity may be level-headed logic to others, and what you think is level-headed support may be head-in-the-sand ignorance to others. Many watch our football and find that in itself the cause of negativity, so it's only natural for them to vent here, thereafter. If you're asking them to not support the club, I doubt that's something they want to do.

 

[Sviken]

We need to challenge, no two ways about that. With the addition of Ronaldo and Varane, I don't think even the fans will be very patient this season. The quality of our squad is evident, now it's up to the quality of the manager And here's he thing - if anyone thinks Bruno or Ronaldo would be satisfied with the "just happy to be there with the big boys" mentality, he has another thing coming. If Ronaldo and Bruno want Ole gone, he will be gone. Bruno has been patient, but he has been getting increasingly adamant about the need for the team to win trophies this season. And Ronaldo certainly won't be one to be happy about a top 4 finish. Pogba has also made it pretty clear he'd stay (or leave in the other scenario) if the club wins trophies. So Ole needs to get used to a winning mentality fast, otherwise this may be his last season. If this club continues to run on sentimentality , we'll miss our moment - these players would either get too old or leave and we'd be right back to square one.

What we need is a club is some young hungry manager with a defined system of play that is preferably attractive to watch and who has had success at his former clubs. Kinda like SAF back in the day. Potter, Rose, Nagelsmann are the ones we should shoot for. Offer them anything and United will be United again. Another option would be Zidane - a proven winner through and through, who'd love to manage a club without a board behind breathing down his neck.

 

[Idxomer]

Only under Ole we can be world class in one match and then 3 days later mockery of the world. Happens when you solely depend on individual brilliance.

We weren't world-class against Newcastle.

 

[vva]

Ole is still far from established manager. The fact is clearly shown on his tactical capability and the result. In Wiki, I found he achieve around 55% Win rate for United so far. This is less than any top managers including Tuchel (62-74%), Conte (62-65%), Klopp (56-59%), Pep (73-75%), Zidane (60-70%),

 

[bondsname]

After a couple of days of reflecting, we should’ve handled the situation better when we went a men down but it’s not the end of world.

I used to think when Solskjaer get it wrong, he gets it really wrong, but then I remember that it’s quite the opposite really. It was evident last season when we had like 10 comebacks in the Premier League, and to me that proves Solskjaers in game management isn’t as bad as it seems.

Going a man down is tough especially in Europe, so I can cut Ole some slack just for that reason alone. If this is a reoccurring theme this season though I will start asking questions, but there is no reason to panic yet. We’re still in a favourable position in both the Premier League and the Champions League.

 

[Escobar]

That’s a great point. I hadn’t thought about it that way. Phelan’s time with Sir Alex has always made me feel that he had the same vision as Fergie. But maybe not

Not sure he had much impact under Fergie, he seemed to more of an assistant than an influencer. Ole does not have a strong or experienced team behind him and it shows

 

[Castia]

Not in this club. Top 4 keeps him on the bench. Glazers are happy with that. With Ronaldo in the squad we got huge PR boost so money will come no matter are we winning things or not.
Only thing which can sack Ole is missing top 4 or incredible run of defeats which basically can't happen with this squad. Any manager would finish 4th with this team.
City, Chelsea, Pool and United are miles above the rest of the league

In previous years sure we have been ‘rebuilding’ for what feels like 10 years but players like Varane and Ronaldo aren’t here for 4th. This squad (thanks to Ole btw) needs to go to the next level now.

If we finish 4th this season without a trophy I’d say that’s a terrible season.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

What you call toxicity may be level-headed logic to others, and what you think is level-headed support may be head-in-the-sand ignorance to others. Many watch our football and find that in itself the cause of negativity, so it's only natural for them to vent here, thereafter. If you're asking them to not support the club, I doubt that's something they want to do.

Fair points, I just find most people on this forum don't actually enjoy following Man Utd anymore and its just sad.