I think our best chance of finishing the season with enough points to get back in CL or EL is to hire someone who knows the club. Rangnick was an absolute failure. It has to be one of Fletcher, Ole, or Carrick or all 3 in some capacity.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Leading contender to become caretaker manager
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
And got beaten by a far inferior team.
Our midfield is definitely worse now. Pogba, Fred and McTominay would take the piss out of us. Bruno is Bruno.
No chance. You're going off an image of Pogba, a memory of him.
Not what he actually was in 21/22. Remember that was his last season as an actual footballer. He only played 9 full league games. He scored 1 all season.
Same goes for McTominay. You're forgetting the role he played in our lack of control as a CM. He also scored 1 league goal that season.
The three of them scored 6 all season in the league between them. Casemiro is on 4 now.
Not that goals are everything for a CM but its an indicator.
You realise we don't need anything special until the end of the season.
We're not appointing him full time.
Any version of Pogba would make Ugarte look silly. He would do so if we played Monaco tomorrow. Let alone the lad who killed Leeds that opening day. He's just too good.
Not to mention the idea of McTominay running off Casemiro every chance he got. Our midfield right now is absolute dog.
Fecking Hannibal and Marcus Edwards just found space whenever they wanted it for one of the worst sides in the league. And that was one of Ugarte's best matches.
These versions of McTominay and Pogba you have in mind weren't a reality in 21/22(when Ole got sacked). They didn't exist then.
McTominay wasn't running off anyone. He scored 1 league goal all season and was barely passing the ball as a CM. You remeber all the complaints right about him disappearing?
Pogba in 21/22 wasn't making anyone look silly because he was barely on the pitch and when he was he looked unfit. He only played 9 full league games all season. One game against Leeds isn't changing that.
Mate stop telling me what's in my mind. I watched every match that every one of these players played for Utd. I remember all the complaints about them and about the players we currently have.
The midfield I'm talking about saw us finish 3rd, 2nd and 6th.
The midfield you are talking about saw us get very fortunate to finish 8th and then 15th. We have no control in the midfield at any point and look shaky as anything with runners getting at our back 4/5 at will.
Were those league positions dictated just by the midfield?
That same midfield was getting battered by Liverpool and Watford. Got Ole the sack. If we want to put everything on the midfield. Ole was criticised for having no control using that midfield.
Pogba 21/22 wasn't the Pogba we signed. As I say, the last season he could really be described as an active footballer.
So the fact that we have a bang average midfield didn't play a massive part in our terrible form the last 2 years?
Course it plays a part. As does every are of the pitch. Last season I'd say a forward line that can't score goals was maybe a bigger factor?
But using league positions to prove which midfield unit is better obviously doesn't make sense. Plenty of other contributing factors.
And I'm talking about what Ole had at his disposal in 21/22. Pointing out where we finished in the years prior to that is neither here nor there.
Are you implying the 20/21 season's Fred would be the best (or the 2nd best) midfielder in the PL this season?
The answer is yes the midfield obviously plays a huge part in every team and you don't get to be the second best side in the best league in the world without at least having a serviceable midfield.
It is here and there because they are the same players. Pogba had his injuries but even excluding him it was a midfield that could be solid in the Premier League. Unlike the horror show we have right now.
Well again the midfield in 21/22 didn't finish 2nd did it. It finished 6th. That's the midfield Ole had when he was sacked. The one we're comparing to now.
So Bruno this season. Available for almost every game. 5 goals halfway through even though he's hit the woodwork 5 times.
vs 21/22 Pogba. Who played only 9 full games all season. 1 goal.
Which one do you prefer?
Mcfred was a meme around here and most of the forum said they were not good enough and needed to be sold.
You could say the manager who managed to use them worked miracles
Lets park Pogba because as you say he was injured and a bit shit by that point, but I would argue McTominay was a good player if utilized well. I'd have him as a better option to Ugarte and Fred has more legs than Casemiro does.
I think there isn't too much right now between this squad and the 21/22 squad, it's just stylistically different.
Pogba we don't have to worry about much because he was injured / half assing it under Ole and Bruno just took over as soon as he joined as the main man.
Casemiro DM is clearly better than McTominay as DM. Ugarte vs Fred .. I dunno. I really like Fred so I think he's better. Overall, even if we're weaker now it's not by a huge amount.
McFred was maligned because it was seen as playing 2 DMs, rather than the players themselves. What has unleashed McT is being given the license to attack more, and not be a defensive midfielder. This is something we started to see under Ten Hag - the McT prior was utilized differently so I'd say its far from "working miracles". Quite the opposite.
No, the players themselves got slated.
If it's Ole, who does he bring as his coaches?
I feel that Kieran McKenna was the most important person in Ole's spell as manager. He likely won't have him, so who?
At Besiktas it was former Molde manager Erling Moe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erling_Moe
Is this who are players are going to react well to?
I feel that Kieran McKenna was the most important person in Ole's spell as manager. He likely won't have him, so who?
At Besiktas it was former Molde manager Erling Moe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erling_Moe
Is this who are players are going to react well to?
When you put players in roles they aren't suited for you tend to get that outcome more often than not.
You're comparing McTominay, a starting CM at that stage, to Ugarte. A backup player.
And like others, you've got the Napoli No.10 McTominay in mind.
Mctominay scored 1 league 21/22.
Oh come on be real. The players were said to be not good enough and most wanted them sold. Seriously? Are you saying that’s not the case
I don't have anyone else in mind. I am saying McTominay had a good skillset if used a bit differently. Ugarte isn't a backup player of late, unless you think its Casemiro and Mainoo to be paired behind Bruno Fernandes in this Ole system.
Thinking to hire again Bermuda triangle from Norway would be so United thing to do. Holy shit thats actually hilarious
McT was never good enough to be a defensive midfielder but it was very clear that he was a lot brighter when he was further up the pitch. We didn't sell him because he was shit, we sold him because we needed a DM and he wasn't one, even though Ole played him there for 2-3 seasons straight.
He even said it after at Napoli, he felt he should be higher up but Bruno was there so he compromised and has no problems with it, but it didnt work out as a DM.
Unbelievable. So we should have kept him and played him as a 10?
I’m sure you remember what you want to be true just to be contrarian. Both mctominay and Fred were repeatedly said to be not good enough.
Even when mctominay had that season last year it was said it’s becasue it was the Italian league.
And final point. If he was played out of position here, then that is on McKenna isn’t it, he was the one who took training and setup the team.
No, I didn't even insinuate this. I said McTominay had very good skillsets and would have been utilized better under a more brave approach to the game rather than just sitting with 2 defensive midfielders each game. That could mean being less of a DM and joining the attack more. It could mean being put further up when we are chasing a game or going for broke (as we did under Ten Hag).Unbelievable. So we should have kept him and played him as a 10?
I’m sure you remember what you want to be true just to be contrarian. Both mctominay and Fred were repeatedly said to be not good enough.
Even when mctominay had that season last year it was said it’s becasue it was the Italian league.
And final point. If he was played out of position here, then that is on McKenna isn’t it, he was the one who took training and setup the team.
The continued approach for 3 seasons playing 2 players almost as a DM was a big stigma for Ole, which is why we spent pre-season training for a 433 and high press, which of course fell apart because he green lit the wrong signings (try blaming McKenna for that while you're at it).
You seem to circle back to a facutal point that you have an issue with - that McKenna and Carrick helped a lot on the tactical side. It was a collaborative effort and so collaborative blame, but last I checked it's the manager who makes the team selections.
McT served a good purpose as a DM so I don't think its daft to put him there, but my view is he could have been a bigger asset if we saw that target man approach in mixing up games we were chasing, but we never did because we never ever evolved from a team sitting back and hitting quick direct counter attacks.
Ugarte is clearly a backup/squad player. He's only started the last few because literally no other CM was fit. The definition of a backup player.
McTominay was first choice in 21/22 and was poor.
When you say used differently you mean not used as a CM at all and playing in a lower standard league. As a player now in his peak years.
Casemiro even at this age with his limitations is clearly a better CM than McTominay was 21/22.
I'm not even going there Fred vs Bruno.
Ugarte played 45 matches last season, McTominay played 36 in 21/22.
Its also safe to say that Bruno in central midfield is finished as an experiment.
Unbelievable. So we should have kept him and played him as a 10?
I’m sure you remember what you want to be true just to be contrarian. Both mctominay and Fred were repeatedly said to be not good enough.
Even when mctominay had that season last year it was said it’s becasue it was the Italian league.
And final point. If he was played out of position here, then that is on McKenna isn’t it, he was the one who took training and setup the team.
No? So many people have literally explained why he had that season
I don't care if it was a meme. That's meaningless.
I didnt ask for Fred vs Bruno. Bruno is here and Bruno was here before. I am saying Fred then vs Casemiro now. And Ugarte or Mainoo now vs McTominay then.
It's really not too dissimilar in what a manager has to tinker with, just a matter of adapting to different types of strengths. Mainoo gives him a dimension or option he never had the first time.
Also Ugarte was second choice when Bruno was a stone cold starter in CM, which he's not anymore because we'll play a 4321 or 433 with Bruno as a CAM. So he's not 'backup'. He's already played plenty of games.
That’s a mess, I’m sorry, but what? Play in midfield not further forward but then have him go further forward?
Mctominay and Fred were deemed not good enough for Manchester United. That was my point. That was common theme at the time. To refute that and still try to put it on the manager is laughable. But crack on
I don’t care either. They were deemed not good enough and most wanted them sold. Now all of a sudden they were why we finished so high
Yeah, he had more of a free forward role in a weaker league, ‘literally’
Casemiro in 2026 isn't good enough, Ugarte never has been.
Those 2 at least managed to do a serviceable job in a far better Utd side. The fact that we sold Fred for barely anything and then signed a worse player in Ugarte for £50m should tell you not to put much weight on what this club "deem" good enough or not.
That opinion conveniently means you don’t have to answer my question about Bruno this season vs Pogba 21/22.
I agree, I never said any different. None of them were good enough
What question?