It may not directly translate bit it sure sends a signal to whoever is the seat that we uphold high standards here and will not keep you in charge just for the sake of keeping or cos of 'traditions'
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
So in essence the manager of a mighty club like ours gets more time simply becuase of 'today's performance'. What have become oh God! I thought we were to judge his performances over a certain period and deem it good or not good enough?
Jesus, would you go for a less skilled surgeon to remove a tumor because a more skilled one failed?
Ole isn't to blame for the hundreds of millions we've wasted post-Fergie, and in a slump like this all we can look for is signs of improvement. For sure the jury is still out on him but yesterday was the first time since Chelsea he's had this Frankenstein's monster of a squad looking anywhere near the sum of its parts. We need to start winning games from now but this result and performance hopefully gives us something to build on.
Would be fair if you already hadn’t already judged him.
Yes, because there was a clear improvement in how we played, for the first half at least. Now if that improvement carries on the board should back him. If that performance turns out to be a one off and we revert to the same levels we've been playing at since PSG then Ole will be back under scrutiny.
I didn't initially to be honest. But I have seen enough to know that he is not a very good manager. If he wasn't a legend of the club, most of the people defending him wouldn't at all. Best case is we buy more quality players to paper over his tactical limitations. But on his own, he will never be the type of manager that makes a team greater than the sum of it's parts.
Fair enough. Cool.
I’d rather him in charge of this team than a mercenary like Jose who only cares about himself. He is taking a lot on for the good of the club and changing the mentality of the team from previous regimes even though he has to take abuse from “united fans”
He has been permanent manager for near on half a season worth of Premier League games, now. The results and performances have been those of a side seeking to avoid relegation. 18 games - 4 wins, 6 draws and 8 losses. We have conceded in all but two games; conceded a total of 25 goals in 18 games and have only scored 17 goals. The attack and defence is useless under him. Even with £130m invested in defence, we are still conceding on average a goal per game. It is not acceptable for a Manchester United (I will type this out fully now, since some sad act was moaning about me shortening it) manager.
This squad is better than this; Solskjaer has it under performing, which just shows how bad he really is. Is it good enough to get top four? I don't think so, but it should be beating teams like Newcastle and Crystal Palace. There is no excuse for that.
I cannot believe that people want to keep him on as manager. Shame that we are going to be stuck with him for another game after the Liverpool result.
This squad is better than this; Solskjaer has it under performing, which just shows how bad he really is. Is it good enough to get top four? I don't think so, but it should be beating teams like Newcastle and Crystal Palace. There is no excuse for that.
I cannot believe that people want to keep him on as manager. Shame that we are going to be stuck with him for another game after the Liverpool result.
If we can manage to add a Midfielder and a CF to the side in January, things will change for the better.
I will back Ole to do this rebuilding job for us, and as long as Woodward backs him we should be fine. The 3 we were able to bring here in the summer were fine. 2 more in January and another 3 next summer and we will see a big change and should be challenging as early as next season. So let's just get behind Ole and the team.
I will back Ole to do this rebuilding job for us, and as long as Woodward backs him we should be fine. The 3 we were able to bring here in the summer were fine. 2 more in January and another 3 next summer and we will see a big change and should be challenging as early as next season. So let's just get behind Ole and the team.
Given his results, what is it that makes him deserving of respect ?
Conceding a goal a game? We are in rebuild you muppet. Shame that you are one of our “fans” more like.
Rebuild does not mean you need to turn to absolute crap first. Where are people getting this idea?
Getting worse and worse is not a rebuild, that is degeneration. Degeneration is closer to what we are seeing under Solskjaer.
Rebuild is just an excuse to protect Solskjaer.
Fighting tooth and nail for a draw at OT is usually not something we would be proud over, but considering our current form it was a massive improvement over the gutless shite we for example served up vs Newcastle. Good defensive performances are not as highly valued as offensive ones (for good reason, people like goals), but one big positive so far in this miserable season have been our defensive record, which is one of the best in Europe in terms of chances/goals conceded
A couple of quality attacking players or just getting Pogba/Marital back and in form and we might actually start resembling a team again
Can you elaborate more on this please?
There is no improvement. We only looked a bit better because Liverpool, like Arsenal and Chelsea play into Ole’ tactics, which is hoof the ball and counter attack. Against Norwich I’m expecting us to revert back to normal.
The "hospital" attempted this "operation" several times over 6 years and killed the patient every time with their "skilled" surgeons. Maybe its time to let a well educated & qualified but less experienced surgeon attempt the operation after many failed attempts.
Ole is the manager and not a player. Just because he was a player does not have any affect on whether he is deserving of respect now as the manager.
Respect has to be earnt. Not just given as a result of a previous role.
Players here just for the money, not rocket science.
That's why the post you quoted said, he doesn't deserve time but deserves respect. What he achieved for ManUtd deserves respect, what he has showed as a manager doesn't deserve time and should be sacked. It's not hard.
My View. I'm all for Ole given a chance, but if he fails to improve. Then he should go, same as the others. Give him another window and see if things improve, if not then bring in a new manager in the summer. A new manager is not going to come in and win us the league this season anyway.
I am pretty sure that anyone applying/approached for this job is aware of the expectations. Sacking manager after manager isn't really going to help. Face it, no one s going to waltz in and win the premier league in one or two seasons (the only person on the planet who might have been able to do it has already tried, got us to 2nd and then we all know what happened after that), and so after years of stagnation we are buying players for the future and we are not suddenly going to become brilliant over night. Rome wasn't built on a day and there will be pain ahead
It’s necessary man up
Wonderful article. Not just about Ole, but the game as a whole. Football is just a reflection of the rest of society, where insta-gratification is expected in all aspects of life. Hopefully his showing against Liverpool gives him some rest from contstant attacks. He neutered one of the best teams in Europe, while not just sitting back with 10 man behind the ball. Klopp didn't have any answers to it.
Anyone who works in hospitals know that for things to run smoothly you need a horde of specialist people who are experienced enough and motivated enough to do their job well. Hospital policies must be patient oriented and be clear to everyone. Hospitals needs to be well stocked and it must be clean, a top team need to be present at the operation theater (surgeons, anesthesists, op nurses etc) etc. Also no complex operations would be made unless that team know that they can rely on other people to take over if the patient need more care. That include a fully functioning ITU, top class staff there etc.
To use the hospital analogy to our case we are like a hospital who was bought by incompetents who only care about money. When things got tough, they kept sacking the anesthesist without bothering to check if maybe the issue lied elsewhere. After hiring and firing the 3rd experienced anaesthetist we decided to promote the op nurse instead cause he knows the place very well. It turns out that instead of starting to sort the problem (ie hiring a surgeon, bringing in top directors who know the job etc) we ended up creating a new problem ie a rookie manager with a poor grasp to tactics who would cause a great outrage within the fans ranks if sacked
United need a serious restructure. That include a top football CEO, a top DOF and a top manager. We need to have a manager with great vision and tactical awareness but we also need people who can support him by getting rid of the deadwood quickly and to bring in top talent to replace them. No manager can succee in such given circumstances certainly not a rookie manager like ole
His tactics were top notch but we did parked the bus. Also it doesn't take away the fact thattime and time again Ole had been outwitted by shit managers with far worse sides to ours
Probably more that he didnt feel he had to ‘park the bus’ against far worse sides and then the spineless players let him down. There would be uproar on here if we parked the bus every game. SAF did it in certain games and Wenger didn’t like it as he likes meat and got fish!
This article could have been one of my posts over the last few monthsmay have been posted already in one of the threads but I think this message deserves more exposure against the growing tide of hate aimed at Ole.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-more-time-respect-manchester-united-manager
The choice is simple: potential long-term success under Solskjær or guaranteed long-term failure under a load of different managers
It has been widely reported, not entirely without glee, that Manchester United have had their worst start to a league season since 1989-90. Plenty of those reports have excluded one not insignificant detail; that the manager of the club back then was Alex Ferguson.
It is easy to forget how truly abysmal Ferguson’s United were between 1988 and 1990. They made the current lot look like freewheeling entertainers by comparison. In April 1989, United scored one goal in five games – and that was an own goal by Tony Adams, all his own work.
The subsequent success of Ferguson should logically carry the power of a judicial precedent. But giving managers time is an endangered concept, and there is a good chance that Manchester United’s endless transition will continue with a fourth change of manager in six years.
There are understandable concerns that the scale of the job is too great for Ole Gunnar Solskjær. But no one really knows; not Solskjær himself, certainly not Twitter’s finest. And the rush to print another P45 wilfully ignores both mitigating circumstances for their recent form and the good work that Solskjær has done since taking over.
Solskjær is the first manager since Ferguson who has attempted to rebuild rather than live hand to mouth and game to game. United have been decaying since the Glazers pillaged them in 2005. Ferguson’s genius masked that for a time, but now United are back where he found them, in urgent need of change from top to bottom.
Of the four managers at Old Trafford since Ferguson, Solskjær has been easily the best in the transfer market. His signings so far are both instant hits and part of a long-term plan. His predecessors bought all kinds of wrong, in terms of ability, character or both, and José Mourinho in particular has some front playing the mistreated sage given all he had to show for spending £350m.
Solskjær has been widely criticised for not replacing Romelu Lukaku, but he recognised that teams with Lukaku in them don’t win trophies. Solskjær wanted more from a No 9, and effectively replaced Lukaku with Anthony Martial (who in turn was replaced by Daniel James). That decision looked inspired in the first few games, with Martial sharper than at any stage since his first season at the club. Then he injured a thigh against Crystal Palace.
Solskjær was without six of his first-choice team in the last match at Newcastle. United may be 12th in the league but they are flying high in one table; only Norwich City have more players out through injury. Solskjær inherited an inadequate, poisonous mess of a squad, put together by four managers, and now he has a major injury crisis as well. In any sane culture these are mitigating circumstances.
Those who aren’t injured are painfully low on confidence; and, unlike his predecessors, Solskjær does not have a peak David de Gea turning defeats into draws and draws into wins. Good luck to anyone in those circumstances. Pep Guardiola could defect to Old Trafford tomorrow, citing a long-standing ambition to work with Phil Jones, and it would make no difference in the short term. There is no quick fix at United. The mess is too great. They hired the king of instant success in Mourinho and even that didn’t really work out. United have a simple choice between potential long-term success under Solskjær and guaranteed long‑term failure under a load of different managers.
It would be unfair to say there is an anti-Solskjær agenda in the media but there is certainly an anti-Solskjær mood
This should be an exciting time for United supporters, a chance to potentially experience a modern equivalent of the magical rebirth under Tommy Docherty. And any success under Solskjær would be worth far more than under somebody such as Mourinho or David Moyes.
There is no point denying that United’s attacking play in recent matches has been dreadful. The team look like they have forgotten how to shoot, never mind score, and it’s hard to reconcile some of Solskjær’s recent decisions and demeanour with the shiny, happy manager who took over at the end of last year. But the fact he won 14 of his first 17 games counts for something.
Under Solskjær, United have been both thrilling and boring; aggressive and passive; tactically smart and tactically rigid. It’s unusual and confusing, but until we see more – a lot more – we can’t know which is representative. Given the scale of the job, and especially his status at United, he deserves time to come to terms with it. Even Ferguson – Sir Alex Bloody Ferguson, the greatest manager in history – looked out of his depth for a few years. Solskjær also deserves far more respect, particularly from United fans. (On this subject, I speak with the evangelical zeal of the reformed moron.)
Ole Gunnar Solskjær is operating amid ‘a culture of instant gratification, unrealistic expectations and brattish demands’. Photograph: Nigel French/PA
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It would be unfair to say there is an anti-Solskjær agenda in the media, both traditional and social, not least because that would give far too much credit to a scattergun process. But there is certainly an anti-Solskjær mood. There are probably a few reasons for this – the reliability of a United bad-news story, residual hatred from the Ferguson years and a frankly pathetic snobbery about Scandinavian football. Most of all, there is a culture of instant gratification, unrealistic expectations and brattish demands that has made football management harder than ever.
That mood has, probably unconsciously, contributed to a certain economy with the truth in the reporting of United this season. There has been little talk of their injuries and markedly improved defence, and hardly any of the fact they were robbed by VAR against Crystal Palace and Arsenal. Even our new friend Expected Goals, who normally has plenty to say, has gone quiet.
At the end of last season there were plenty of self-satisfied observations that Solskjær should not have been given the job permanently because his xG wasn’t very good even when he was winning twice a week. Few have commented on United’s xG this season, which has them third in every table we could find on the internet. Even those of us who don’t really care for xG would accept that, if the prosecution is able to use it as evidence, then the defence should be allowed to as well.
Solskjær is second on the expected sackings list, behind Everton’s Marco Silva. There isn’t just a sacking culture in football; in the media, certainly, it’s a sacking cult. Every time a manager is under pressure we get the same rituals; the same bloodlust; the same grave expression on newsreaders’ faces as we are solemnly informed that so-and-so’s weekly press conference is scheduled for 10am.
There is no greater indictment of football’s descent into reality TV than the infantile nonsense that has made it normal, almost compulsory, to get rid of a manager at the first sign of trouble. That big old mess in the White House; he’d have sacked Solskjær already. There has to be a moral in that.
Solskjær was very brave in taking the tough decision to knowingly weaken the squad in order to (hopefully) build the platform for success
None of the “big name managers” would have done that, they all look after #1
I was using Neville logic
I am not sure that anyone is going to die or get brain damage due to Ole’s tactics unless of course you repeatedly head butt the wall in frustration
United look a better team when Fred plays, although it says more about the others around him. They also look better with AWB, and with Martial and Pogba back and fit the team will frankly be good enough to compete for top 4. The squad is dire, but I like the clearout and I want Ole to have opportunities moving forward to sign the players he wants to sign.
Even had they won last night, as it was basically a derby and a very difficult place for Liverpool to come and play, I think people should wait a few games before breaking out in a renewed chorus of 'oles at the wheel'...
A lot of people on here (not me) did predict that Oles counter attacking tactics would work well against Liverpool as they did against Chelsea, but afterwards against teams that park the bus, things would inevitably unravel. We'll have to wait and see...
Liverpool have not been playing well all season and were there for the taking last night IMO. They were visibly rattled and nervous. Instead of pressing home the attack and going for the kill, it was timidly called off and inexplicably a general retreat ordered. A defense was then erected to protect the lead, tactics that we have seen time and again this season, that as always, ultimately failed.
The idea or implication that as Ole went toe to toe with, and nearly defeated the mighty champion Klopp, that it must mean he is his managerial equal (or have the potential to be so) is wishful thinking. It was only one game. I remember Joe Royals Everton (who finished 15th in the league) beating Ferguson's united in the 95 cup final. And that was a cup final...
Encouraging as the first half performance was last night, it will be the next game, and the next five after that when we'll really see if a corner has been turned. But in your heart do you really believe that it has? Can they pull of that performance, and levels of effort/tenacity every week?
I have to say as much as I hate being cynical/negative I just don't see Ole being successful at united.
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Why do we as a club seem to think that we should be stuck in the past and not move on with times? That is a big reason for why we are in the mess we are today. We always think we are 'different' whereas we are not. This is why a manager like Moyes was made coach instead of a proper manager becuase we feel there are some values and traditions which are sacrosanct to Manchester United. This is why we have missed out on some World class players becuase we didn't want to compensate the agents cos we are United and so every player must be on standby to play for us (something we eventually succumbed to albeit lately; ask Riaola about his commission on the Pogba and Mhikitaryan deals). We have to move on the way the game has.
There is a lot of money circulating in football these days, so much that even a player who has not even established himself as a star player(Rashford for instance) is reportedly on 150k-200k in wages depending on what sources you believe. World class players go to world class teams cos they will be paid well and cos the teams are ambitious.
Manchester United is no longer a top destination in football. If we are going to have to bring in world class players(the alternative being grooming youths like Perreira, Mc Tominay, Greenwood etc untill they become great players which only God knows when), then we have to pay them obsecene wages as that is basically all we have at the moment. And don't start me up with that look at history and we are still the biggest club in England (we aren't on the pitch never mind Europe.
I know there will be exceptions to this as some players are unusually greedier than others but we have to get rid of these mindset that we must only sign players 'who are not here for the money'. Those type of players are never in hot demand and mostly average ones who consider playing for Man United a privilege instead of a place where they wanna walk in and show why they are among the elite best in the world. And the former type players will more than not leave you always languishing in mid table the way we currently are.
Ole took over a sinking ship last season. He's done a decent job of steadying it. He inherited an imbalanced squad, that was unhappy. He's trying to address this. Despite the penny pinching and lack of direction from above. Plus his signings so far are doing well. The football's been uninspiring at times, but we're only 12 games into a new season. It's far too early to sack him.
Our next four EPL games are Norwich, Brighton, Bournemouth (what a weird name btw.."bourne mouth") and Sheffield United. Away or home doesn't seem to matter much these days at United, but those are all winnable games. With Pogba, Martial and AWB back (hopefully) we had better go on a decent run. Now is the time for Ole to get some points. If not, there will be a lot of momentum in the "Ole out" camp.
Yeah because Jose and LvG did so well didn't they?
I will reiterate what I said in other threads. United do not have a god given right to.win.. Manchester United is about more than winning, it's about style, hard work, respect, determination, never giving up, spirit, unity, giving youth and local talent a chance. The trouble is the spoilt generation have grown up watching United win everything, they don't know the pain of relegation and are just learning the pain of watching our biggest rivals win everything.
Ole has gone about things the right way so far. He's bought exciting players and got rid of some that were draining the life, soul and money from the club. He's giving youngsters a chance and he's also bought players who we can see fit the typical United mould of fast attacking in WB and James and strong and solid in Maguire.
Those three alone fit United more than Lukaku or Fellaini ever did. We gave LvG and Jose years and millions so why can't we afford Ole the same, especially when despite his inexperience, all evidence so far suggests his team and the vision of the one he wants to build is 100% Manchester United, and not reformed Chelsea like Jose wanted. He's trying to build a team that fits the club rather than building one for himself like Jose did. The worst part is he's being destroyed for it by fans who have no patience yet didn't want Jose and have no answer or alternative, all they offer is negativity.
How much time should Ole be given? Does this rebuild include a possible relegation to the Championship? How bad does it have to get before he gets the chop? What if United are bottom 3 by the next international break? Will it still be give him time to turn things round?
Such a knee jerk attitude and unrealistic outlook. How long was LvG given? Jose? Fergie? Fans like you would have sacked Sir Alex way before he won anything.
Ole won't get United relegated, that's just insanity and a ridiculous comment. Jose tried to turn United in to his Chelsea and Inter Milan. He bought Matic and Lukaku and tried to bully teams with his bus parking style and great lump bully up front but that's ok is it?
I don't know what some fans want or think, they expect a manager to come in and instantly make United challenge on all fronts and then berate them instantly when things don't go their way.
If you can't see what Ole is trying to do then you don't understand the club. If you arent prepared to give him time because you feel he's not a big or experienced enough name then that's on you, but the club, team and manager would be far better off with your support rather than your negativity and pessimism. I'd rather be a mid table side for a year if the end product saw us back at the top, rather than 3 years of the shit Jose gave us..I could see what Jose was doing and hated it, I can see what Ole is trying to do and I'm prepared to give him some time. It's way too early to be writing him off and he deserves support. Tbh I'm disgusted at the way many so called fans are turning against him and speaking about him.