I'd say they're just as relevant as the other games last season. Make of that what you will.
Edit: I should read the whole post before replying. We agree on the relevance of those games.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Edit: I should read the whole post before replying. We agree on the relevance of those games.
For the sake of argument lets pretend Solskjaer is sacked, who would you bring on instead? Good managers do not grow on trees, there are not that many realistically obtainable managers who on have a higher chance of success. Higher chance of success is important words as well, only thing that is guaranteed in life is taxes and death. United have earlier tried two highly rated managers who the majority of members here thought would do really well here. Pochettino is very often mentioned here, but would he swap clubs and also they are behind Manchester United on the table.
When Mourinho was manager many members here including myself were disliking his behavior in the media, publicly bashing players and undermining the owners. Now the same members are complaining Solkjaer is looking to happy and comfortable. We have absolutely no idea whats happening curtains, just because he doesn't throw tantrums at press conferences does not mean he is happy with how things are going. He has admitted he wanted to sign more players, but the right players were not available. Some people here seem to think that signing players is like playing football manager. You call an agent throw some money at them, then the selling club voila they are United players.
It is so easy to criticize, but not many of you come with suggestions for what should have been differently. You can only play with the cards you are dealt regarding possible transfers, injuries, owners, current squad etc. In that regard i dont think Solskjaer have done to bad.
When Mourinho was manager many members here including myself were disliking his behavior in the media, publicly bashing players and undermining the owners. Now the same members are complaining Solkjaer is looking to happy and comfortable. We have absolutely no idea whats happening curtains, just because he doesn't throw tantrums at press conferences does not mean he is happy with how things are going. He has admitted he wanted to sign more players, but the right players were not available. Some people here seem to think that signing players is like playing football manager. You call an agent throw some money at them, then the selling club voila they are United players.
It is so easy to criticize, but not many of you come with suggestions for what should have been differently. You can only play with the cards you are dealt regarding possible transfers, injuries, owners, current squad etc. In that regard i dont think Solskjaer have done to bad.
I consider that to be a very important aspect for a manager in this day and age and one of SAFs most important attributes.
A win rate of 33% is actually terrible. That's what teams around the 14th-15th position have as normal record.
As I’ve predicted after the Liverpool game we are about to go streaky so when and if it’s above 50% will you give him a chance then?
I think this is unfair. You're entitled to your expectations, and I actually envy you for the stage of life you were at when we started winning things regularly. Being in your twenties during the start of the Ferguson revolution must have been amazing, particularly as all your banterful exchanges would have taken place in pubs as opposed to today's world where the vast majority of it is online (this is me assuming you went to the pub, apologies if you didn't). All through your adult formative years, you were used to supporting the best team, and we kept up that level of sustained success until you turned 38. So it's not surprising that you won't allow your expectations to drop, when such a large portion of your existence has coincided with our most dominant spell as a club.
With regards to Solskjaer though, I think the better word to describe his standards would be "realistic", and there is no way anyone could convince me that he doesn't have extremely optimistic long term goals. This is a man who scored arguably our biggest goal on arguably our biggest ever night. I don't think there is any doubt that he gets this club. His predecessor is on record as saying helping us finish second (Which would probably be below your expectations) with our squad might be his greatest achievement in football. It wasn't hyperbole and he wasn't being a sensationalist. This squad is performing at it's expected level at the moment, and i'm certain the coaching staff are doing everything they can to improve the players they currently have, whilst planning on how to make the team stronger. If Solskjaer were to leave soon, I think there would always be a part of me that resented our club for not giving him more time.
There are 28 games to go in the league, we are sitting well in the Europa league and we currently have a manager who has a similar mindset in terms of young players that the greatest manager ever had just shy of your 21st birthday. The cause for optimism is there if you look for it.
For the last feckin time, stop banging on about the Fergie era. Fergie flirted with relegation back then, does it make it ok if we were to go through that again? Fergie had a much better managerial rep before he started at United, how did Ole's CV look like? Times have changed, football has changed, please get this into your stubborn heads. We could afford to give Fergie patience back then, but we cannot now. Things are moving much faster, sponsorships are a huge part of our revenue, sugar daddy clubs are common these days. Other clubs are not gonna wait around for us to catch up. Even feckin Leicester is playing way better than us now. And to the most important point, Fergie is a one in a generation manager, please please stop bringing him up whenever we are discussing Ole. It's really not a relevant example at all.
Asking where all the good managers are is relevant only under the assumption that we already have a good (or a mediocre) one at the helm and we are contemplating replacing him. Before the last two matches, the performances were dreadful and the atmosphere looked grim. Winning only one game in every three, struggling to score goals from open play and playing at a snail's pace when we can't hit on the counter. Club legend or not, good signings in the summer or not, good behaviour in pressers or not, no one can last a whole season while the results are dire and the performances remain torpid. The notion that time and more signings are needed isn't new, it's usually the last line of defence of all managers who don't have much to show for. It happened with Moyes (who still keeps banging that drum to this day), it happened with LvG when the words process and philosophy were being mentioned derisively and it happened with Mourinho too when the latter was asking for a whole new set of players. Did it begin like that? No, the fanbase was willing to lower the expectations and not demand a title challenge from Moyes. They welcomed LvG as a continental teacher of football. They even thought that Mourinho's "four specialists" were a step in the right direction. Eventually, their position became indefensible because the results were bad and the performances were poor.
I also will never understand the "we tried two highly-rated managers" argument. Why ask where are the good ones who will replace Ole then? Furthermore, why wasn't this question being asked when CL winners like Mourinho and LvG were close to getting fired and Solskjaer was given the job based on his past relationship with the club and nothing more? After all, despite all the parallels some of our fans like to draw with Klopp, Liverpool went for a man with a proven CV and not some unknown managerial quantity. It was when they were looking towards past glories and not proven managers for a solution to their problems that they were failing.
Anyway, i can sympathize with Solskjaer and the state of the squad he inherited almost a year ago. But i will not blame everything that happened (or more likely didn't happen) last summer on Woodward and Judge. He made it clear from the start that he didn't rate Lukaku, that he rated Lindelof instead as a first choice CB and after the Liverpool game (when Herrera got injured and McTominay came on to be our MVP) you could see that he was warming to the idea of McTominay starting next to Pogba. Not surprisingly, Lukaku was shown the door, Herrera got tired of waiting for a new deal and when it became rather obvious that we were after Maguire, Smalling left too. These are all indications that Solskjaer has a say in who comes and who goes and an important one. And despite Woodward's general incompetence, i think that when he claimed that he was content with the squad he had at his disposal, he, more or less, believed it. He overestimated the youngsters' readiness to contribute in crucial roles and he overestimated his own abilities to deal with any expected crises. For example, losing Martial for a huge chunk of the season is bad luck. Forcing, because of that injury, Rashford into a role that doesn't suit him, moving James onto the other flank and putting Pereira on the wings isn't bad luck. It's bad planning and it has cost him and the team.
Hopefully, he'll be able to turn it around and learn from his own mistakes. He deserves credit for the Lindelof-Maguire partnership and for developing McTominay. Bissaka and James are solid signings too. I'll also suggest that his decision to selectively give good chances to youngsters during a period that the team struggles instead of throwing them into the fire, LvG style, to save face and please the fans is the right thing to do. That's as far as it goes as we speak. Patterns of play and synergies between the players, coherence & consistency, all these vital aspects of a rebuild, are still missing after nearly a year. Again, as we speak. And as long as they're missing, there will always be question marks around Solskjaer's tenure.
Lastly, i think to mention Poch's recent failings without the context that this downfall for Spurs has occurred in his 6th season at the club (close to a record in modern times) and without any credit for developing all his players just to defend Solskjaer is disingenuous. If, come next May, we can't credit Solskjaer for anything more than a few good signings and McTominay, then Pochettino will be one of the best choices. If he is available, of course.
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But it's not because he was that "exceptional" player (though only a sub) that I think the way he's being treated is disrespectful. It's disrespectful because how Ole Gunna Solskjaer sets his teams up is documented by everyone who does tactical analysis on his previous teams. And what he has done is pretty interesting. I also like what he's trying to achieve at United and I think once players' confidence will be back up there, the team is going to be able to execute. Yeah we might need some more signings. But it's going to deliver. The question is only when and if we can create some momentum in their heads so that we can move up in the standing for this season.
I always fondly remember Ole as the one who cleared the deck when there were many players at our club as a result of all previous bad decisions and also who bought wisely on limited budget.
Given time and money sure he can fix this team or atleast build a right platform for the next manager by the way things are moving at this moment.
Given time and money sure he can fix this team or atleast build a right platform for the next manager by the way things are moving at this moment.
I fear for our future with Ole. It is Lingard situation all over again. Guy who obviously( at least for me) doesn't have quality or talent to be in big club like United, is labelled as young manager who needs to learn despite he has 10 years of coaching behind him, has a lot bonus credits because he is local( legend) and then and there will win some game which will keep him on the bench.
In a long run with him, 4th spot will be absolute maximum which we will achieve. The same like mediocre player can't all of sudden become world class, it is the same with managers. Both can have purple patch but most of time they are what they are; just average. Give him 900mil and still he will not be able to compete for title. Personally i am worried that we will become Arsenal or Milan.
This is not top red opinion but i care for Man Utd, not Ole, Gary, Giggsy or Ronaldo. You can like player or coach but club comes first.
In a long run with him, 4th spot will be absolute maximum which we will achieve. The same like mediocre player can't all of sudden become world class, it is the same with managers. Both can have purple patch but most of time they are what they are; just average. Give him 900mil and still he will not be able to compete for title. Personally i am worried that we will become Arsenal or Milan.
This is not top red opinion but i care for Man Utd, not Ole, Gary, Giggsy or Ronaldo. You can like player or coach but club comes first.
If you think that Andy Cole was world class then you're mistaken big time. He was a decent player who fitted in our system like a glove however SAF wouldn't have hesitated twice to replace him with a top tier striker like Shearer or Batistuta.. What do you want to say with that?
I would rather measure him on how he can rebuild the squad, getting rid of deadwood and what players he brings in. So far that's been good imo.
No, of course i don't think that he was world class. I am not that subjective.
. But he wasn't only decent. He was class playerHow can a class player be not world class?No, of course i don't think that he was world class. I am not that subjective.
We have different standards for rating players i guess. World class players are rare. Every top squad has only few of them. Are players like Auba, Willian, Mahrez, Martial, Robertson, Saul...etc...world class players? I think not. Are they very good, class players? I think yes
Yeah because SAF was a world-beating manager and managers like that are always keen to upgrade while winning to stay ahead of the pack. Ruthless. If Andy Cole was here in 2019/20, he'd be given a 15yr contract and a 300k a week salary and we'd hope we could play him every week until he was 42. Even if his form dropped after two of those years.
Sir Alex wasn't ruthless. If he was we wouldn't have spent ages playing with ageing players and he wouldn't have kept the likes of Jones and Anderson for so many years.I think my use of the world 'replace' was wrong. Sir Alex simply didn't saw Coley as first team level. However as Cole himself stated when RVN was signed he was more then willing to have him on the bench.
Whatever. My initial point was that Ole was sent on the bench by a striker who wasn't even world class. I think we both agree to that.
fecking hell
what's wrong with the bolded part of that post?fecking hell
Check how many years Jones played under SAF.
Jones only played 2 seasons under SAF.
But I agree that SAF wasn’t that ruthless, at least not compared to say Guardiola.
And he was very good young defender back then. It would have been madness to even think of offloading him.
You get more respect and time by winning games if we were to go on a run nobody would be questioning Ole but if we lose to Bournemouth on the weekend he will he questioned again. It’s a result business
Who's responsible for this?
Point is there's good players everywhere. Go find them. Build for the future. That is up to the club scouting.
That used to be the Barca approach but reportedly they are now being run like shit. The old Barca would have signed Leroy Sane.
That used to be the Barca approach but reportedly they are now being run like shit. The old Barca would have signed Leroy Sane.
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Time?
Only if he earn it and at the moment, looking at overall, he deserve more.
Respects?
Definitely always should be given.
Should he be immune to criticisms?
No.
Only if he earn it and at the moment, looking at overall, he deserve more.
Respects?
Definitely always should be given.
Should he be immune to criticisms?
No.
Nice bump. This thread seems to be ageing well. May it remain this way.
I know this is from a while back now, but not when you consider the overhaul he's had to do. We'd lost our way as a club. Playing style, recruitment, culture. He's had to do a lot to get us back to even approaching where we were.
Fred-Fellaini-Rashford-Lingard-Lukaku with Mata on bench (We had this when Jose stopped playing Pogba)
Ole is trying to change this to
Pogba-Bruno-Rashford-Sancho-Martial (with Mason and Grealish on Bench)
Transformation.
Ole is trying to change this to
Pogba-Bruno-Rashford-Sancho-Martial (with Mason and Grealish on Bench)
Transformation.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Sums up my thought.
Yes, thats many players going out. Even without enough playere coming in. But hose who came in have been great deals.
Ole talks the talk and walks the walk : )
Ole talks the talk and walks the walk : )
Manchester United 1 - 2 Sevilla
13th March 2018
Lukaku
Rashford -- Lingard -- Fellaini -- Sanchez
Matic
Young -- Bailly -- Smalling -- Valencia
De Gea
Bench: Romero, Darmian, Lindelof, Mata, McTominay, Pogba, Martial
Martial had a slight injury issue but Sanchez was first choice anyway so doesn't really matter. We've come a long way since these days. To put it into perspective, five of those starting have left the club, two have been dropped and Smalling sent on loan. Only Rashford, Matic and De Gea survive in the starting eleven. The starting average age of the above lineup was 27.2, our last fixture against Leicester the average age was 24.5, with two teenagers starting. Putting it into perspective, only 1 of the Sevilla starting eleven was 22 or younger, against Leicester we had 4. Trust Ole, we're going the right direction.
13th March 2018
Lukaku
Rashford -- Lingard -- Fellaini -- Sanchez
Matic
Young -- Bailly -- Smalling -- Valencia
De Gea
Bench: Romero, Darmian, Lindelof, Mata, McTominay, Pogba, Martial
Martial had a slight injury issue but Sanchez was first choice anyway so doesn't really matter. We've come a long way since these days. To put it into perspective, five of those starting have left the club, two have been dropped and Smalling sent on loan. Only Rashford, Matic and De Gea survive in the starting eleven. The starting average age of the above lineup was 27.2, our last fixture against Leicester the average age was 24.5, with two teenagers starting. Putting it into perspective, only 1 of the Sevilla starting eleven was 22 or younger, against Leicester we had 4. Trust Ole, we're going the right direction.
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Is it really a ruthless edge though? There are a good 6/7players still here that many people would have been calling to get rid off last summer as well that we are seeing on peoples deadwood and outs lists.
I personally am very much on the fence with SOlkjear so far. I like that he is trying to do things the United way in terms of playing style, transfer purchases, youth player focus and I like his optimism. I do also think he so far whether it is him or the board hasnt done enough each window liek I mentioned. Another 2/3outs last summer could have been one more incoming signing. I expect 3 in this summer and 4/5 out.....8/10 out could be 4 signings.
I like his optimism and drive. But I am still not so sure of the tactical nouse, man management and motivation is there to keep consistency with the players throughout the season. You watch us and we are like the late Wengers Arsenal days. There are periods you start to believe we can start to challenge and then periods you start to believe we simply are nowhere near good enough.
Post lockdown was a perfect example of this. The firs half of it we were enjoyable to watch again, scoring goals and playin gexciting football against admittedly fa weaker sides. The second half of it, we were mainly absolutely dreadful and outplayed in most of the games despite the results.
The current premiership is of course very difficult to challenge in when there are two sides, with two fantastic managers and points tallies the last two years that would have won any premiership season in history. Solkjear has done a good job so far, has been the only manager since Ferguson who seems to understand the club at all, all the predecessors were actually cluseless and two of them far too stubborn and arrogant to adapt to the club expecting the club to adapt to there philosophies.
But is he the man to take us back towards the top, Im really not so sure
What a bump. Towards the end of that first page in particular, some heads need to be hung in shame... Horrible gits, the lot of em.
That's why I still had faith in Ole even when we were doing poorly. He made the decisions I wanted to see and cast out the players who didn't fit the style of football that United should play. It would have been easy to keep Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini, Young etc and to plod along to a drab top 4 finish, but instead he put faith in our exciting young players and we've seen them grow and grow as the season progressed.
It left us short in squad depth and with the injuries we had we nearly fell short, but we ended up 3rd despite taking a big risk and now everything is looking positive for the future.
Well the fact that some of these players have been frozen out speaks volumes. But also we had injury problems that made us actually rely on some of the deadwood throughout the campaign. If he had gotten rid of every single player then our squad would be extremely light. It’s also not as easy as just wanting them out. Look at Rojo, we wanted and tried to shop him about but no one wanted to pay what is a pretty reasonable fee.
You cannot just replace all the deadwoods in one go, that is just unrealistic expectation. It is a proper planning which Ole has stuck too. He could have easily panicked and said let me keep Lukaku and Sanchez or let me keep Young till the end of the season. He didn't and for that he deserves credit.
This thread is about giving him respect. We don't know whether he will be the one to take us to the next level but the fact that some called him names and acted like he is a novice who is just here to spread happiness and doesn't know a thing about football management , all these theories have been proven wrong.
People can be on fence with him, that is fine and to be fair he has to keep on proving whether he can take us to the next level but he has to be given respect. The sad thing is even the likes of arteta and lampard are getting respect who have achieved much less to Ole the manager. That's what the Alexshaw tweet was about. You may not rate Ole but one cannot just sprout bs and then change the goal post. Even if Ole is to leave the management today, he deserves people's respect.