Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Permanent manager

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Samid, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Jun 25, 2019

    Allas8 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Messages:
    244
    Solskjaer stated that the majority of players had impressed, and would be given a new chance come pre-season, only a few had not response well to his demands. He also promised 2-3 signings this summer. You can also assume Greenwood and Tuanzebe will act like new signings this summer and be part of the first team squad. Lingard might be moved to his natural position CM. Sanchez should not be writen of yet.
  2. Jun 25, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    22,026
    - I've already explained those points many times. Pep and Klopp don't abandon their style when some of their players are tired, Ole did. He also was subject of criticism for being a rotational manager and changing styles both at Molde and Cardiff before.

    - Because it's a world of difference between Pep being understudy of Cruyff and Ole understudy of Ferguson. As I've already said Pep based his approach and tactics on Cruyff's and you can easily see that. If you say that Ole based his on Klopp then your point isn't valid is it? Also as I've said Cruyff was there for Pep in his tenure and actively helped him to mould his style, Phelan is not Fergie.

    - Our u23 are in second division if you haven't forgotten. The youth teams are long until they are ready for the first team and most likely Ole will be gone by that time.
  3. Jun 25, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    27,059
    Location:
    Egypt
    If Ole is counting on this, the outcome is gonna be too obvious to not predict. :lol:
  4. Jun 25, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Messages:
    3,989
    Makings of his own downfall
  5. Jun 25, 2019

    soaphroniscuss New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    388
    What have you seen in him ?

    It is not a good counterpoint. While you are listing the similarities and differences add 1. the state of the club and 2. remedial action taken (timing and effect) when a "long shot" manager is given a "chance" and 3. the depth of the local competition.
  6. Jun 25, 2019

    Celoti23-81 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    396
    Huge difference between Pep and Ole, is that Pep has played under 3-4 different world class managers in his playing time. Ole played under SAF, which is a great thing, but can also be a bad thing as manager going forward. Is he going to try to be a clone of SAF, because of that. If Lampard goes to Chelsea, I think he will be better equipped than Ole is now, in terms of playing staff and tactically!
  7. Jun 25, 2019

    Wayne's World Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    6,087
    Location:
    Ireland
    He'll be gone by October If that's his thinking.....
  8. Jun 25, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    It's also totally different because Cruyff was the exponent of a footballing system - a style and type of football. That was something that Pep was able to study, implement and develop. With Fergie it was much more about him as an individual and his unique personality traits that made him a genius. Try as they might (and lord knows plenty of his ex players have tried) they can't replicate what Fergie did, because they are not Fergie.
  9. Jun 25, 2019

    Shark @NotShark

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    19,881
    Location:
    Ireland
    Christ on a bike, where have we heard this before? this was supposed to be the summer we actually react to the clearly visible issues within our entire squad, not only glaring positions that we've failed to address for the past 6 years but poisonous free loaders that just aren't contributing anymore. If this is genuinely Ole' point of view, legend or not, he's an inept manager that will need booting asap.
  10. Jun 25, 2019

    Big Ben Foster Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,144
    Location:
    Brasileiro in Chicago
    Supports:
    Also support Vasco da Gama
    Why does this seem to happen every time we change managers? These players have had enough second chances. :annoyed:
  11. Jun 25, 2019

    Hawks2008 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    3,560
    Location:
    Melbz
    Happens with every new coach, these players are toxic and have been throwing managers under the bus for years to save themselves. Basically:
    • New boss comes in.
    • Gives everyone a chance to show him what they've got.
    • Eventually the boss decides on who needs to go and who should stay.
    • Players down tools and the coach is gone before they get the chance to sell either them or their buddies
    • His replacement comes in, gives everyone the benefit of the doubt/fresh start and the cycle continues.
  12. Jun 25, 2019

    passing-wind Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    874
    Supports:
    Pass & Move
    The only aspect of success Ole has here was a crucial summer window bringing a new spine of individuals in. That's not going to happen given the current circumstances of our business thus far. I think the facts are while Solskjaer is an undeniable club legend, we have one of the worst managers in the top 6. All these stupid comparisons between Zidane / Pep / Klopp is straight delusion.

    If Mourinho never got sacked Ole would still be in Norway, so you have to question his aspirations and success as a manager. Solskjaer has been in management for 10 years and all he's done in the most competitive environment is get Cardiff relegated. He was an awful appointment.
  13. Jun 25, 2019

    UnofficialDevil Anti Scottish

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,894
    Location:
    Not anti Scotish, just posted a lot against Moyes.
    What Ive been saying all along.
  14. Jun 25, 2019

    Allas8 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Messages:
    244
    Only reason Mourinho got sacked is Mourinho. There has been no evidence of players actually downing tools, but plenty evidence of players not being fit enough.
  15. Jun 25, 2019

    Hawks2008 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    3,560
    Location:
    Melbz
    No doubt. Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho all weren't up to it, but we have many self serving cnuts in that dressing room who know when to hide behind the manager or their teammates.
  16. Jun 25, 2019

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    66,527
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    We keep changing managers and these players keep getting a stay of execution. I know I shouldn't say it, but Pep would have had them out of the door pronto.
  17. Jun 25, 2019

    El Zoido Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,573
    Location:
    UK
    We won’t even be in the top six by the end of next season so it’s moot.
  18. Jun 25, 2019

    Shaidabdullah Hussain New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2018
    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    A pretty Sikh United fan
    Moyes’ 6 year contract expires in a week.

    Will the curse finally be lifted after that ?
  19. Jun 25, 2019

    SirFergie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    4,097
    Location:
    Blackley, Manc
    Here we go. Say you've not got an agenda? What a fecking stupid thing to say. I was actually expecting this, with Lampard apparently going to get a big job, it's not "what's he done to deserve this?" or "what are his qualifications?" it's "he'll do well", "he's better tactically than Ole" with no fecking evidence of anything. Cretin.
  20. Jun 25, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    22,026
    Yup.

    Pep and Ole comparisons are way off the mark. They actually have nothing in common, besides being managers.

    The unproven thing is also incorrect - Ole has been in management for 10 years, whilst Pep 0 when appointed by Barca.

    Pep also played in Cruyff system that he later on developed and based his management on the same system which is recognizable from the off. Ole has been managed by Fergie but we don't see his style being the same like his this year. You might make excuses about players and fitness, but it's not like Pep didn't employ the same recognizable style from day 1.

    Fergie himself varied in style - his early 4-4-2 exciting days and then the more pragmatic style after we won CL. He was first and foremost a brilliant man manager and got most of his players almost every time.
  21. Jun 25, 2019

    Shark @NotShark

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    19,881
    Location:
    Ireland
    Not sure why you shouldn't say it, it's true. It's true for any manager that's worth his salt to manage this club. God knows why someone like Mourinho persisted with some of them, but that's the question on everybody's lips, who exactly is running the club, how much power does a Manchester United manager actually have? We've seen both Pep and Klopp walk into our two biggest rivals and being freely allowed to clear out whoever they want, even players of Coutinho and Hart(at the time) status. What is this immovable force that's stopping our managers, it can only be Woodward.
  22. Jun 25, 2019

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    66,527
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    It is either the board are running the club playing side for marketing rather than footballing reasons or it is another instance of the tail wagging the dog.
  23. Jun 25, 2019

    Saf94 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    687
    This squad is a team that came 2nd a season ago. It’s a team that won 11 in a row including beating Arsenal, Chelsea away and PSG.

    If we did nothing else but get these guys to perform to the level they can consistently it would already be a 100x bigger improvement than anything any manager has done since Fergie left. We have so many more problems than not signing more quality players, we actually have talent all over the squad we just can’t get them to perform. Think about it - Pogba World Cup winner, Martial debut season scored 20+ goals, Mata 2 time player of the year, Sanchez one of the best pl players of the last 5 years, Matic PL winner, Rashford a highly promising player etc

    Why do these guys not perform to the level we sometimes see and know they can play? That’s the biggest issue we need to solve. It doesn’t matter how many good signings we make if they never perform to their actual level what’s the point?

    It’s clear Ole’s statements at the end of last season were to get players to buck up their ideas. If claiming Martial has played his last game gets him to perform then that’s what we want, we don’t need to sell if he actually becomes a 20 goal a season winger again
  24. Jun 25, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    I think this is a fair point - but it really heaps the pressure on OGS to get them playing. I mean, he's already had half a season working with them as a free hit, and will now have had a full pre-season with them to get these fabled fitness levels up. It's on him to get them firing now - regardless of who we bring in.
  25. Jun 25, 2019

    matt10000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Salford UK
    That is Ole's job forget the 11 wins in a row and forget rubbish end of season - judge him on how next season progresses and see direction and improvement.
  26. Jun 25, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    5,473
    Wish Ed would fecking hurry up and get him what he wants.

    On a positive note a lot of the players seem to be in training already which suggests they've bought into what he's asking from them regarding their fitness. Seems like half the squad have posted training videos in the last couple of weeks. It's a good sign.

    While I generally hate seeing them post these type of videos for attention it's much better than seeing pictures of them looking fat on the beach like we've seen in other summers.
  27. Jun 25, 2019

    Saf94 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    687
    I have more faith in Ole than any manager so far because at least he gets it. LVG and Mou both tried to stamp their systems they had at previous teams onto United and it didn’t work. I prefer the approach of working out what the team is and wants to be and developing a system around that.

    It’s like Southgate at England, he wasn’t world class and didn’t have a big reputation. When he came in he didn’t try to make England play like the other big nations, he developed a system that worked with the players and culture we had. I think Ole will do something similar
  28. Jun 25, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Well I hope you are right, but I don't see that that is based on much more than vain hope.

    Time will tell.
  29. Jun 25, 2019

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    66,527
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    Pre-season might give us an idea of the system he has decided on, who has taken his threat of the players coming back in good shape. It will be the first game of the season where we will get a better idea of where we are. We need to get a win in that first home game and it will set back Chelsea a bit.
  30. Jun 25, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    I think in general Ole will get a much easier ride from fans than Mourinho did, but that opening game against Chelsea is an interesting one. Given that they have lost their manager and their best player this summer, plus they have a transfer ban, it's going to be hard to explain away anything less than a good performance/result.
  31. Jun 25, 2019

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    The rainbow's end
    This squad finished second by amassing a grand total of 81 points which guarantees you only CL football nowadays unless we're talking about a freakish season like the one when Leicester won the league. The stats from the post-Ferguson era indicate that this particular total isn't exactly the norm for this side but a seasonal performance that actually exceeded expectations since in the previous seasons United had finishes between 64-70 points to show for. Funilly, the manager who got United to second place was very vocal about his team's capabilities. He claimed that United need serious strengthening and when asked about our title aspirations he said clearly that if the title is going to be decided on 90+ points, there's no way that this side will be able to mount a serious challenge. Next season saw United return to their usual form (66 points) and although the aforementioned manager pretty much sabotaged himself & his team, when he was asked to comment on United's crazy run of successful results, he retorted that time will prove that this particular run is the result of the honeymoon period under a new regime more than anything else. Time proved him right. But the case between this manager and our fans is as the saying goes: Better lose an eye than a good reputation. And his reputation among the United faithful wasn't good, to begin with. But this doesn't mean that he doesn't have a point every now and then.

    Furthermore, the stats throughout the season were constantly showing that during our good run we're actually overperforming. When everything was rosy and we were winning games left, right and centre, the fans were laughing at the xgoals and the xpoints data which were painting a very different picture: One that was saying that we hadn't actually found a steady solution out of our problems but we were winning games on our incredible momentum instead. When the momentum left us (after De Gea's howler at the Emirates), the performances eventually deteriorated. You talked about consistency. Well, consistency is achieved through sheer quality, it's not built on momentum. And time and time again, it's proven that we lack quality. Lots of it. You said 11 consecutive wins as proof of undeniable quality? Arsenal, this season, remained unbeaten in all competitions for 22 games (including an 11-win streak) from 25/8 until 13/12. You won't find many United fans who believe that they are actually pulling up any trees.

    I said it previously on this thread that Solskjaer has a great advantage in comparison with Moyes, Mourinho and LvG. He's not a sour, dithering character with zero charisma and he's not as arrogant and adamant about his ways as his previous two predecessors either. He also has his own history at the club and he's loved by the fanbase. This gives him leverage to force the necessary changes in the squad. And i believe that our fans will back him, even if the results aren't great from the get-go if the team starts looking like it's going places. But this won't happen if he believes that with a pat on the back these players will discover the quality they lack. It won't improve Martial's horrendous off the ball movement, it won't turn Rashford into an all-around forward, it won't change anything for Mata in his 7th season at the club, it won't make Lingard a top-class orchestrator or -enter the name of CB- a world-class and consistent defender. The worst thing is that it's beyond miraculous coaching abilities too. Mourinho had very few friends at the time of his appointment (and none when he was sacked) and LvG lost all of them on the way (apart from a selected few who are still in his corner on here) but they were good managers nonetheless. Many highs and lows in their careers? No doubt. But also one very scary similarity they share: United is the only club where they failed to deliver what their CV suggested they would. If that doesn't say something about the squad, i don't know what does. Ole should be very careful with his choices regarding the first team.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  32. Jun 25, 2019

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    66,527
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    We might also see this season how good their kids really are. Ole is supposedly going to use some of ours as well, so are we great at developing kids or will it be Frank Lampard and Jody Morris?
  33. Jun 25, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    England
    No way is JLingz a CM, CAM or RW. Don't want to see him anywhere else, (if he has to play)..
  34. Jun 25, 2019

    Celoti23-81 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    396
    I'm not saying he will do well at all. But I think he has better tools to work with at Chelsea, even with a transfer ban! And with a transfer ban, there isn't much pressure on him first season. I think they will finish above us!
    He did better than Ole in the championship actually.
    That was his first season as manager.
    All I'm saying with Ole is, he has shown in the 6 months in charge he has reiterated over and over that we need to play the Utd way and sign young hungry players like SAF did. Do it your own way if you are good enough!
    You ask any cardiff fan what they thought of Ole as manager, and they would say it was very reminiscent of that last 3 months of our season.
    All interim managers have their honeymoon period.
    It's my opinion, and my opinion is, this just might be a worse appointment than Moyes.
  35. Jun 25, 2019

    Frasbul Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    everclear is a cool band. yeah they still exist.
    Ole is the right guy.
  36. Jun 25, 2019

    Big Ben Foster Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,144
    Location:
    Brasileiro in Chicago
    Supports:
    Also support Vasco da Gama
    Great post
  37. Jun 25, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    England
    It might eventually end up being a worse appointment than Moyes, but don't talk up Lampard then insult Ole, they're both in the same boat with very limited experience. But if anything Ole has been in management far longer, if it was a toss between Ole and Lamps I'm going for Ole every time. Lamps is a big risk for Chelsea, bigger than Ole is for us imo. Still though, Lampard deserved a shot to see what he can do with them...
  38. Jun 25, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    well that's cleared that up then. Thanks!
  39. Jun 25, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,625
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Agree with another who said 'great post'.
    Regarding the 81 point second place finish.
    Who do you attribute that achievement to, which as you quite rightly say exceeded expectations.
  40. Jun 25, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    That point is exactly not what I, a fan, have seen on TV and the internet, even if I as a Norwegian most likely have seen more than you and is positive about it (despite almost always being pessimistic about Norwegians).

    The point is that if someone in 2007 asked ‘is Pep ready to coach Barca’ or in 2014 ‘is Zidane a good appointment to lead Real Madrid’, I’d have answered ‘I have no idea’. And anyone who then said ‘It’s obviously a bad idea, because they are not proven managers at the top level’ would have made fools of themselves.

    The point is, those making these ‘in-house’ appointments know alot more about the people in question than we fans do, and we’ll just have to trust them. Which is more difficult maybe if they’re lead by Woodward than if it’s Laporta or Perez, but that’s how it stands.

    Your points 1-3 are valid, though I doubt anyone in hindsight would have said about Guardiola or Zidane that they would have been terrible appointments if Barca or Real M was more in a building process or if the re was no DoF there at the time.

    You could turn it around and say that Guardiola, Zidane, Solskjær, Enrique, Koeman, DeBoer and other ‘in-house’ appointments are les of a long shot than taking picking a foreign person from Napoli or Borussia Dortmund based on watching his team on TV, looking at his CV and having an interview process, before taking him to a new club, a new culture, a new country.

    History shows that both approaches can work, and both approaches can go south. What we know is that when clubs like Barca and Ajax, and previously Liverpool, promote or retrieve their own, their CV is not going to tell us much about wether they will be up to it or not. I don’t know, you don’t know. The proof will have to be in the pudding. And if it’s a build-from-the-bottom situation, the pudding will not be out of the oven in at least a couple of seasons.