Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Samid, Mar 28, 2019.
Same feelings mate. Don't take you seriously either
Our initial plan was to hire a DoF before Ole was permanent to hire the next manager. Seems that plan is abandoned now, which is the base of our restructuring.
We need someone who can guide us into top 4, especially when we will invest this Summer (or at least according to Woodward).
I'd back any credible name out there that comes with experience and clear plan. Out of the inexperienced manager I'd rather have ten Hag compared to Ole.
The manager is very important position for our season, despite what others think, you can't seriously compare our position to Barca and Real. They are both streets ahead of us when they appointed Pep and Zidane it's not even funny.
Conte was/is available, Allegri is, as well as many other options.
Of course I can sit in the corner and cheer at everything Woody does if that would make everyone happy, did us wonders so far
Actually Aldi hire fresh graduates to run their stores.
Exactly my point - local stores, not your general manager. Either way will drop it now and let's see how the season will pan out
You seriously think any united fan in the world would be happy with that? We all want big titles but we have to be realistic here, there is no way we are going to challenge any time soon. Forget Ole for a second and think about the fact that we prior to him had one of the most succesful managers in the world of football hired and he failed miserably. This shit is going to take time.
Ole's make or break will be the transfer window. If we have a bad one I can't see him lasting long.
He has now scored the same amount of home goals at Old Trafford as Alexis Sanchez.
We won 2 cups. We finished second. Sadly I can't see that happening with a depleted squad and an inexperienced manager.
Agree on the latter one, but again as I mentioned quite a few times already - if he won't last that means we lose another 1-2 seasons as the new manager will come in - time to assess players and the same ol' merry-go-round.
Just because one of the most successful managers didn't make it doesn't mean we need to hire nobodies.
As I've said we will revisit this thread after the season starts to see if I'm wrong or not.
It's just another sentimental appointment that is not dissimilar to Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool with their transfer committee a few years ago. Look how that turned out! It's just mistake after mistake.
All it is, is that Woodward still keeps the same power he has always had! Nothing has changed, but for employing yes men this time round.
Is Solskjaer the right fit? I would say yes if the league was not that competitive, but it is, and unfortunately we will be fighting it out with Everton, wolves, Leicester.
Yup. Agreed. 100%. Have nothing against Ole - he's a great chap and servant for United. If we were in City's shoes and had the best squad in the league - also wouldn't be vehemently against the experiment. But in our current position...
This. Weird logic to think we would be better of with inexperience.
About the 1-2 seasons to asses the players - is that really true?
I'd guess that most of the potential candidates would know about our strength and weaknesses, and would come in and start with a high player turnover like Van Gaal in 2014.
Our strengths and weaknesses should be pretty clear to most top managers.
Major corporations hire from within all the time as they want to keep the 'company culture' strong. They only ever hire outside when they're looking to change direction. Football is no exception, it's essentially the same gig.
Regarding the graduate thing, it's a well trodden route for getting in young, hungry management staff who will buy into the culture without asking questions and push the agenda. You can't complain about the way a company does things if you have no prior experience.
I don't think OGS is blind to the lack of abilities these guys have - but one thing is for sure. OGS has his eyes set dead on culture and honestly cannot see the work rate from either Young or Jones to be of any bad influence, rather to the contrary. They've been in and out and have been with the club for years, and even though we can talk about their horrible decision-making, you can seldom put a finger of their work rate. I'm no fan of either Jones or Young, but I do believe in chemistry between players, the culture and the manager's vision. I think OGS is taking a holistic approach to the rebuilding of this club, which is a lot more than I can say for either of three previous managers.
And that's why I'm positive when it comes to OGS. I see it all the time in my own professional life. Changing bosses. Some are leaders, and inspire and take a holistic approach in changing the direction we're heading in, and some are just plain cardboard standard middle-managers, that do their job. So many on here are constantly point fingers at individual elements in OGS' reign. You can't. There's a rebuild in the process, and it literally starts everywhere. Tiny bits here and there, and keeping some stability with some of the hardest working players might be a great way to go about the re-build. Doesn't mean they'll start every game.
SAF did exactly the same when he joined United back in the '80s.
Weird to think that 10 years management experience counts as 'inexperience' these days
Such a harsh criticism seeing as he hasn't had the opportunity to change the personell. What were his alternatives exactly? There was noone internally at the club he could have used instead.
At the top level.
It really is funny when you think about it.
Lindelöf is the only decent defender we've got but can't play every single game, same deal with Shaw.
Bailly was injured a majority of the time, Jones and Smalling both in and out of the team, Dalot is inconsistent and learning, still not sure RB is even his best decision which leaves Young as the only recognisable RB we have.
But yeah, this is completely Solskjær's fault and he should be sent packing as a consequence of it.
Yeah, forgot managing the Sawyers Arms doesn't count does it? Not like he was paid or managed in a European competition or anything.
If a big name comes he would definitely need time. Can't see him sorting out this mess in a single season. And before someone asks why we should give time for one with credentials time and not Ole - well because the former has earned it and the probability of being successful is much higher.
TBH as much as everyone is slating the players (and deservedly so), a WC manager should get them playing better (to our strengths) and IMO could've got us into top 4 even this year considering how the other candidates fell out of form.
Inexperience at top level. Unless we consider relegating Cardiff and Molde as top level.
Moyes who had a lot more experience in the league and generally managed better teams failed miserably, sadly I can see us going the same way around Christmas.
If we go back a bit many fans are demanding Ole getting rid of the deadwood and on that basis he's 'cannot be evaluated yet', but since he's appointed we made Young captain and we are handing out contracts to the same deadwood we're expecting to get rid.
He doesn't strike me as the ruthless type (coming off recent interviews) that would get rid of the average players and install his own ones, so many would be disappointed come the end of the window IMO.
Payrise for Ole, parity!
Come on mate. Geir Bakke the Sarpsborg 08 manager got them in the group stage of EL and managed in a European competition, should he be among our shortlisted candidates as well?
Yes, a lot easier to have trust and show patience to someone with the right credentials.
Even if a top manager wouldn't ship out all the deadwood in the first window, we should still be able to make some improvements.
Should definitely be easier to attract the right kind of players with a Pochettino/Ancelotti-type of manager.
Solskjaers loyalty to Young, Lingard, Jones etc is definitely worrying.
If the Cardiff thing is all you've got to give him shit about then it shows you're clutching at straws. Let's look at the reverse shall we? Moyes, got Everton into the CL, therefore good manager with proven track record, yet couldn't do anything near similar with United.
Managing a team that competes in a European cup is top level. He has managed professional clubs with fans, expectations, full blown stadiums and all the things that go with it. To suggest he's been managing pub teams up until today is disrespectful and shows your lack of actual understanding on how management works.
Again, how can you actually know what Ole wants to do based on this 6 month stint so far? Young is the new captain, will he play a lot next season? Probably not, meaning Pogba is most likely the new captain and has the chance to prove he wants it full time the following season. Valencia was the captain this season in case you forgot?
We simply cannot clear out 8 players in one window without having replacements lined up. You don't know that Ole hasn't made that request to Woodward but they've both realised it's not doable when you want to bring in a certain level of player. You have to compromise sometimes and if that means Young and Jones get one more season or so then so be it, hardly the end of the world but it's not the managers fault he's inherited this mess.
This is all relative. There will be some claiming he should be next season when they play attacking football and win the league. You lot are fickle like that.
Moyes is good example of someone out of his depth at United and he still has much more experience at top level. You are underestimating United if you consider Everton, Cardiff and Molde to be top level mate.
It really isn't. There are literally thousands of managers that managed in EL, coming from really poor leagues. Were we disrespectful towards Moyes for not giving him another season or two?
So far there is difference from what I read around here and what Ole says in interviews. Young was by far the worst player we had in the ranks and he has made him captain, what does that say to the rest of the team? Valencia was players player of the year in 16/17. He was also solid in the next season before made captain so I fail to see any relevance until Young plays 6 games next season.
Think most of the fans expect just that - take a look at most of the transfer related threads 8-10 players off seems to be the common consensus - not that I agree it will happen.
Let me ask you this, since it's clear for all of us that it's a massive rebuilding job. If Ole manages to get 3-4 players in, ships off 3-4, we're hovering around 6-8th place in the table come December, playing same dire football (as I doubt 3-4 new players will change it straight away), should Ole be given more time despite most probably missing on top 4?
Yes. We shouldn't expect a quick fix. Way too many problems for that to be an option. Impossible to replace 8-10 players in one window. Astonishingly naïve thing to expect. Of course I hope Ole will manage to finish inside the top four but I honestly don't expect him to. That's what I expect him to do the season after that. Bit like Klopp did at Pool really.
Even if we back him with +100m in the Summer? Fast forward 1 year we're still 6-7 in the table, then what give him another +100m? When it becomes not the players fault but the managers- after 2-3 transfer windows just to be sure?
Tbh I doubt even Ed will let him stay if we don't qualify for next year CL.
Most of the realistic supporters want to see progress. Firstly, we need to get to basic and make sure our players fitness and work rate is standard...standard in terms of working hard and pressing for 90min. I do somewhat feel this is where we began to fall off towards the end of the season. The Lfc home game for me was the turning point where 3 of our players went off with muscle injuries. Just showed how unfit we were. Ole has said this is where he will start with.
I for one wanted Poch but Ole should be given the chance. I'm quite excited for the season ahead. We will get some good young talents and ship out the guys we don't believe in. Will be a good season to assess things.
Last saloon for Ed and the board if things go south.
100m? That gets you what? 0.5-1.5 player that the muppets that expect top 4 and fantastic football after one summer deem good enough? The likes of Griezmann/Sancho are more expensive on their own. Someone like Pepe would probably set us back 50-70 mil. 100m is nothing these days sadly. Especially when you expect us to replace 8-10 players. That would cost nearer to 400 mil.
If there's no progress after 3 windows with sufficient backing then that's on the manager sure. If he falls out of the top half of the table then that would be on him too. But right now we have to deal with the fact that the likes of Everton and Leicester don't have a significantly worse squad than we do but they have some very good people running things with a clear vision while we're still looking to hire competent people who then have to create a clear vision for the club. The likes of Maddisson, Tielemans, Vardy, Maguire, Richarlison, Digne, Gueye would all walk into our first 11 yet we're all blaming the manager if he doesn't manage to comfortably beat those teams. It's a sad state of affairs at United right now but to me it's obvious the manager is not the problem and after sacking three managers I'd like to see us stick with one this time.
There is so much negativity here, the season has not even started yet and people are assuming all sorts of things. Let's be logical here, once we decided to appoint Ole as our new manager( a lot of fans were happy with that), we wouldn't have predicted the abysmal form we went on. I know there is lot of room for argument when it comes to experience and pedigree of the manager but there is one fact we can't deny that the guy just love our club to the core.
As many suggested there are other managers that are arguebally better than Ole, in fact I like the way Pochettino has transformed Spurs. But still I believe we should completely back Ole, a good transfer window coupled with introduction of our talented academy lads to the first team can spur us on a good run again. As long we continue to progress bit by bit and reduce that 32 point gap, I am all for Ole.
Unlike most others, you are doing much more than ‘just voicing your opinion’, you are voicing the same opinion over and over and over, adding nothing new to it, taking nothing onboard from anyone. It’s kind of fascinating.
What do you hope to achieve?
Yes, it’s very weird. Does anyone think like that? ‘Yes, we prefer someone without experience. Experience is a drawback’. They must imagine Barca and Real Madrid hired Guardiola and Zidane not in spite of their lack of experience, but because of it. Barca had already won the CL with the Rijkaard whose only experience was a mid table finish in Holland. So they thought, we need someone with even less experience! How about our reserves coach? The we don’t even have to hire him, he’s already a member! In Madrid, Lopez had tried a couple of experienced men, and seeing Barca took the plaudits, he figured: I don’t care who our reserves coach is - as long as he’s never been in charge of a club before ever, we’ll hire him!
Anyone believing that’s how it happened, must be certifiably mad. Do they even exist?
Merely responding to quotes. Haven't posted in here for days until you quoted me.
Lots of talk about Ole's lack of experience at 'top level'.
I'd like to point out that Ole has something that Moyes, LVG and Jose didn't have and that's experience of being part of THIS club.
He has 10 years experience and won trophies as a manager, he has opened the door to the first team for the youth players as he understands because he was u23 manager (won trophy iirc) for united and he knows what it takes to create that path.
Now that De Gea has shown his mortality we are seeing the true level that United at which is where we were after Jose's (experienced, serial winner) first season, 6th!
The reason for this is that our defence is garbage but for some reason Moyes, LVG and Jose didn't address this when they had the chance.
Give Ole a chance to fix the mess!
Even though the transfer window isn't over and has barely been open lots of credible reports / sources that players have rejected the idea to join the club / uncertainty of the future (which is crazy to comprehend that a club the size of Manchester United can be in such a predicament).
I think much of that uncertain perspective aside being outside the champions league is potentially also to do with Solskjaer's pedigree as a manager. What do people make of this, is it likely that we are in a catastrophic position as a club or if an Allegri / Ancelotti was in charge is that negative perception lifted ?
Fair enough we had an accumulation of signings outside the top four (Pogba and co). However, I think that boiled down to Mourinho being in charge and was an attraction given his managerial credentials. This not a post about signing world class players (Varane, De Ligt etc), it's about the club providing Ole with the best possible platform for success. The club clearly is reputable and historic in today's age but is the extent of that influence being marginalised due to management ?
We are so far behind with the finish last season that Solskjaer is going to need a fantastic summer to have any chance as success here. I don't buy the narrative that he will be given time, if this was the case then there would be no need for this post essentially. If im totally honest I didn't think this would be as large of an issue it's currently presenting itself to be.
I had a vivid dream that the transfer window went to absolute hell. Every single player we went for ended up elsewhere. The season started out horribly as well and Solskjaer was sacked before christmas. Holy feck was it was a god damn nightmare. I think once you end up having dreams like this it's a sign I've been reading and taking in too much of the negative stuff written..
At least he’s not on social media
To me, it genuinely feels like we’re going to have a Moyes like summer. Which is so grim that I can’t bare to even think about it, it’s just what I feel. We also ended the season absolutely miserably with no signs of Ole dropping the average English dross that needs booting, so the idea that he’s going to implement a massive clear out is dead to me. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong by being ruthless, but more likely we’ll probably see the likes of Martial shipped out before we see Jones/Lingard shipped out. Is that a good thing?
He’s on Twitter!
I think the sources you think maybe are credible, probably aren’t very credible, and the problems you imagine on the back of uncredible rumours will remain mostly imaginary.
I also think the theory that the clubs with the most famous managers get the best players, isn’t very credible. I don’t expect evidence to back up that claim very well.
And what can Solskjær do about his reputed pedigree? Nothing, a part from running the team the best he can. And what can we do about it? Nothing, apart from backing those that do the best they can for the club.
Van Gaal and Mourinho also gave chances to young players. Any manager can do that. Being able to work well with the players and improve them is a different thing. One that is not being achieved by having experience of being part of the club.
Separate names with a comma.