2nd place is now an achievement? It's just first place loser. With the amount of money Jose spent there should be a lot more than just a Europa League in the trophy cabinet.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
- Status
How much did Jose waste? £600m was it? What is there to show for that?
How did you come to this conclusion given the competition set included only a vastly superior and better funded city team?
Given the context, 2nd was a great achievement which should have been celebrated and built upon.
If you think of who we played though...
Assuming Ole stays, let's see how we're shaping up come the turn of the year. Make no bones about it, it's been a horrific start to the season but if we can get a bit of consistency and our players stay fit, this season is so open we might actually be able to claw some of the deficit back. If we're in a similar position after the Burnley game on Dec 28th, anyone who is still preaching patience should be sent to an asylum.
I like what I´ve seen the last 2 matches, and the feeling you get that United can score almost in every attack. It hasn´t felt like that since last winter. I know it´s only Partizan and Brighton, but it was also only Rochdale.
It´s not so much that United can´t create anything against deep sitting defences, it´s more the players hitting with their passes, Rashford and Martial not constantly running into defenders and losing the ball, like they used to some weeks ago. A hard training regime in the summer may affect the players negatively in short term, but give benefits in the length of the season. We´ll see, but I´m slightly optimistic for what´s coming. This is a tipping point for Solskjær. A good run will bring him loads of support back, a bad run will get him sacked. I ´m hoping for the first.
It´s not so much that United can´t create anything against deep sitting defences, it´s more the players hitting with their passes, Rashford and Martial not constantly running into defenders and losing the ball, like they used to some weeks ago. A hard training regime in the summer may affect the players negatively in short term, but give benefits in the length of the season. We´ll see, but I´m slightly optimistic for what´s coming. This is a tipping point for Solskjær. A good run will bring him loads of support back, a bad run will get him sacked. I ´m hoping for the first.
If we have 9 players out injured again against Burnley I will cut everyone some slack. Again
That's why I said let's see how we look then. We've been bang average but I do appreciate Martial was a huge miss for us and that Pogba when on song is a game changer - however every club gets injuries and every club manages as best they can. I want United to do well which I'm unsure about under the current regime but, as said, let's see where we are at the end of the year because that's a fair amount of time (I think it's like 7/8 games until then) for us to judge Ole with a near enough full team and having played a good range of teams. Here's hoping I'm wrong.
2 cups and a distant 2nd
But hey. Who was motm last match, and the one injured player that can propell us back to glory when he recovers?
Half of our squad is Jose's. But hey hey wasted 600m (i dont know where you get that number) and he's the big bad toxic cnut.
This is the sort of things that made me love the man.
You can't even be big enough to argue on ole without bringing jose into an argument
He got that right though.
We spent 65m for 2 centre back under Jose and 16m for Rojo under LVG, none of them have been the right players which is why manager like LVG had to convert Blind to be a centre back & manager like Mourinho was still moaning about his centre back options.
We'll see. It's barely 3 mths.
I want ole to succeed, i do. Why not? There's nothing better than him successing saf and becomes the next saf. But that doesnt mean I'll bend reality
Yeah, before we paid 90 million for 2 CMs who both looked out of place and 180 million for 3 CMs, we still need at least 2 CMs.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so if that’s your conclusion, so be it.
Eh? Looking at all that have a shot at starting:
DdG, Young - SAF
Mata - Moyes
Shaw, Martial, Rojo - LvG
Pogba, Fred, Lindelof - Jose
James, Maguire, AWB - Ole
Rest - Academy
Since when are three players “half the squad”?
Note: Matic won’t start unless it’s an absolute crisis but even including him, that’s still only 4.
The reality is something you have missed & ignored. Whether Ole will success or no that’s another debate. However the reality is that we had to spend that 120m on 2 defenders because our previous managers didn’t spend the money on the right ones in the first place. Jose chose an instant way to reach success by refusing to develop or have a faith in the talented and young players that the club has and chose to waste the money on more proven and ageing players and now they are proven to be the wrong players & some of them are also deadwood.
Success doesn’t come in instant, might not getting top 4 might get top 4 but what Ole is aiming is likely for the future success. Result hasn’t been great but there are sign of positive in term of the direction we are going.
Talk to me when we actually won the title.
Future success : is only correct if you're indeed "SUCCESSFUL in the FUTURE", at the moment that's still a "we'll see"
Yes “we’ll see’’ because success will never be obtained in just one season. What I am talking about is the direction we are going not the final result. I can’t feckin make prediction whether it will work. What else you want us to do? Do you have better plan? Because to me our direction is now going for developing our young talented players like Rashford & Martial instead of ignoring them and going for proven or ageing players like what Jose did. Focusing on improving the players in the squad. Giving the youth chances.
If you got better plan than those, let me know don’t just moaning for no reason because you don’t like the idea of us spending 120m on 2 defenders. At the end of the day if Mourinho didn’t spend the money on the wrong players & not ignoring our young talented players like Martial & Rashford we won’t need to spend that 120m in the first place.
They didn't love their clubs before they are hired and had absolutely no connection with them before that's what you simply don't get, so pointing the "he loves the club and knows its inside out" is a pretty lame requirement ". Love came when they got the job. You are really weird. But as I said you have nothing to do in this thread except spreading insults left, right and central towards everyone arguing with your lame points and thinking that this probably makes your points look stronger.
Aren't we interested in 33 years old Mandzukic in Jan?
Interested to hear how you got that number.
Jose is a good manager, but his transfers here were mostly shit, so was LvG's
Bought:
Pogba 105 million - Great player, but the jury is still out here. If he wants to leave now he will be seen as a flop
Miki: 42 million - Good player, but never settled in the PL. AFAIK hes been pretty mediocre for Arsenal as well
Baily: 38 million: Extremely injury and error prone. Hes like a darker Phil Jones
Zlatan: Free. Incredible piece of business
Lukaku: 84 million - Terrible transfer. Yes, he does score a decent amount of goals against smaller teams, but that's about it. Shite attitude, lazy and horrible link up play
Matic: 45 million: Why pay so much for (at the time) 28 year old? He was decent his first season, but dropped of badly after that and is now safely settled among the deadwood
Lindelof: 35 million: I think hes alright personally, but i know a lot of people find him nowhere good enough.
Sanchez: Miki + his obscene wages: Without a shadow of a doubt the worst decision the club has made. Not only because Sanchez was shite and not worth 1/10 of what we paid him, but because his ridiculous contract created a lot of envy and unrest in the squad and ultimately lead to us losing Herrera. Feck you Woody!
Fred: 59 million: A month ago i would have said this was almost as bad as the Sanchez one, but hes looked twice the player since the Liverpool game. If there actually is a good player in there, it might not be so bad. 59 million is still a lot of money though
408 million spent
Sold
Blind:16 million- Why the feck did we get rid of him? Hes better at LB than Young and arguably a better CB than Lindelof. He can also cover on midfield if need be.
Miki: Sanchez- Was never great here, but i would much, much rather keep him than getting that twat Sanchez
Januzaj: 8 million: Never would have made it here so fair enough. Hes worth more than 8 million though
Depay: 16 million - He was awful here no doubt, but imo that was more down to being a bad fit for LvG's system and if he had gotten a chance i think he might have flourished under Jose. Right now hes ripping it up for Lyon and i even saw some mentions that we might buy him back
Scheniderlin: 22 million: Yeah he was awful mostly, so getting rid of him was a no-brainer
62 million in sales
Net spend: 346 million
LvG was better, but not by much
Bought:
Martial: 60 million - Great transfer, though many would argue he needs to show more consistency to justify that price.
Schneiderlin: 35 million - Shit transfer. Never made an impact
Depay: 34 million - I think he looked much worse here than he actually is, but that is because he was a terrible fit for LvG's system.
Darmian: 18 million: Awful player for us. Had a handful of decent games but were mostly shit.
Di Maria: 75 million - Good player, but a shit transfer. Never wanted to be here and was sulking from day 1
Shaw: 37 million - Cant really blame LvG for this one as he had missed exactly 1 game for Soton when we bought him. Turned out terrible though
Herrera: 34 million - Great transfer. One of the most underappreciated players we've had here
Rojo: 20 million - I like him as a character as hes all guts and thunder, but tends to make at least one stupid and often costly error each game
Blind: 17 million - Great transfer considering how cheap he was. Good all round player
Falcao: 8 million - Why did we buy a 28 year old that had just done his ACL?
338 million spent
Sold
Welbeck: 20 million - It was Welbeck. Fair enough
Kagawa: 8 million - Ridiculous transfer. Why did he sell him for such a measly sum only to shoehorn Rooney in as a playmaker when he was in rapid decline. Baffling decisions
Buttner: 5 million - Not the greatest player, but worth more than 5
Zaha: 4 million - Worth about 10x as much as we sold him for. What the feck were we thinking?
Bebe: 3 million - It was Bebe.
Di Maria: 63 million - Had to go
Hernandez: 12 million - Not the most talented player in the world, but was worth a lot more than 12 imo
Evans: 8 million - Hes better than Rojo/Jones and about on par with Smalling imo. Worth a lot more than 8
RvP: 6 million - Was a spent force by then, so fair enough
Nani: 8 million - Another ridiculous sale. He was only 28 at the time so he had at least another 2-3 season left in him.
Rafael: 3 million - Disaster of a transfer. Rafael was a bit of a hothead, and could be suspect defensively at times, but overall a pretty good RB
140 million in sales
198 million in net spend. The problem with LvG was not so much the player he bought, 198 million in net spend is not a massive amount and he did get us Martial and Herrera. His problem was basically giving away good players as we were a fecking charity. Kagawa, Zaha, Evans, Nani and Rafael were all good players and we got peanuts for them.
Ole:
Bought:
Maguire: 87 million - He was expansive as feck, but that's what you pay for English internationals. We have lacked a leader in the back for years though and hes only 26 so i would say its a decent purchse
AWB: 55 million - Hes tied with Ndidi for the best defensive record in Europe. The difference is that the latter commits loads of fouls while AWB does not. Considering hes only 21 he looks like a great piece of business
James: 15 million - Cost/value wise he looks like the best transfer we've done in years. Even if this is his peak level he is more then worth the money we paid
157 million spent
Sold:
Lukaku: 65 million - Lazy and unprofessional, glad to see the back of him
Fellaini: 8 million - Could have been useful maybe? Hes 31 either way so its not like he has many years left in him
Sanchez: Apparently Inter wants to sign him permanently, which is a miracle if true. Even if they offer us 1£ we should jump on it. Just get rid of him
Net spend: 84 million
So yeah. So far Ole has done much better in the market than the other two. Jose spent buckets of money on short sighted transfers, and LvG while doing some good buys like Martial, Herrera and Blind, was awful in the selling part of it and sent away loads of decent players for peanuts. Between them they spent well over half a billion net and what we are left with today in terms of first team players are Pogba, Martial, Lindelof and Fred. That's simply awful.
Another big problem Ole has now, is that outside the obvious first XI there is very little resale value in the squad. Young, Mata and Matic are pretty much ready to retire, and the likes of Lindgaard, Jones, Baily and Pereira are not worth much to other clubs
Ok. Let's try this again
1st It's not about Jose, it's never about Jose. Jose was sacked. you like him or not this is Ole's at the wheel. It's tiring when every little argument and critics on ole is brought back to the "whatbout Jose" all over again.
2nd. The same questions were asked on every manager we've had, and every manager other team had "How wise is his spending", that has got nothing to do with Jose.
3rd. We shall see, you're here bigging up Ole and dishing Jose while we're sitting 7th and dares to say Jose is a shit manager while Ole's the next SAF while we're 7th and bricking our balls against the mighty norwich
And the bolded part is why I'm ignoring you, you're probably new here, or not. But I'm sick of having to be dragged back to "jose this jose that" all over again.
Quality control
When you learn how to convey differing opinions without insults, I think the world would be a better place. Makes it harder for me to even conversate with you.
You are not reading my post at all!! I mentioned Jose not because I'm dissing him but I am comparing what Jose did to what Ole did. The two had different aim & what Jose did wasn't working, and Ole used the opposite way of handling the current squad compared to how Jose did.
What else you want us to do? Do you have better plan? Do you want us to do what Jose did by ignoring some of the current squad young talented players like Rashford, Martial & etc and spent those money on ageing players & attackers again rather than defenders? Please elaborate!!
How long till the split Jose caused between this fanbase actually heals? I don't have any real ill will towards Jose, I wanted him sacked, I don't hate him, but the amount still willing to die for him is amazing.
It seems so, but he'll be backup to Martial, James and Rashford, not the other way around. See Sanchez.
Cheap point.
To sit on the bench? Yes why not. You didn't get the point aye?
[
Er, first look to yourself....focusing only on the one thing you disagree with and dismissing all else – and in an insulting manner. Great way to start a conversation.
He will take game time from both though, as a starter or from the bench. Will be fun seeing him taking game time as a striker shifting Martial to the left wing from time to time.
But interesting to see an excuse already being put up for such transfer because it will contradict all these talking about youth and not signing old players any more.
This a good assessment of Ole's signings to date. Let's hope it continues.
Take time from who? On what evidence?
The jury is still out on Paul Pogba
Where is he doing this? From what have read he is just putting up valid points and you seem to the be the one throwing your toys out of your pram.
So we are going to sign him to play a side role or for 10 minutes a game? And you think he will agree on that? You are living in lala land if you think that.
If we sign him he's going to feature a lot as a starter or as a sub and will definitely take a game time from Martial and Rashford, contradicting these talks about us favoring youth and not signing aging players anymore etc. The narrative will probably change this time from "developing youth over aged players" to "we need experience players" or something.
Still no evidence. Just conjecture and opinion. Simple question: Is there anything that points to Ole preferring older players to younger players so far this season? How about transfers so far?
He'll obviously start games when other players are injured, but he won't be first choice. Like Sheringham in his days.
Ole highly praised Martial before the Liverpool game about how good he is as a centre forward, giving him the no 9 & the role itself from the start of season.
I'm not really sure why you can't see the difference between the aim or signing that Jose wanted or had or expected on Lukaku, Sanchez, Perisic, Zlatan with what Ole wanted on Mandzukic (if Ole even wanted him).
I wonder if you had the same idea about us signing Henrik Larsson back then and thought he will take Rooney's spot
Obviously he has spent less. Hes only had one window
He has also gone into the season as a consequence of the net spend being low with the worst squad and has the worst set of results.
Yes. Ashley Young.
- Status