It's the best bet mate, let him disappear up his own hole....
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Is that controversial? As i said, if he stays here for years and does great things for us then he will no doubt be deemed a success and maybe even go down as a club legend. On the other hand, if he starts sulking and tries to force a move i doubt you will see many pictures of him hanging around the pubs in Manchester in 10-15 years time. At his best hes fantastic, but hes been up and down for us to put it mildly. He has to show a lot more (for us) before that world record price tag is justifiedThe jury is still out on Paul Pogba
Obviously, but the state of the squad he inherited is largely down to his predecessors, which was kind of the point of my long arse post. Ideally everyone of us would have wanted another one or two big signings this summer, but the truth is no one knows for sure why it never happend
Of all the sticks to best Ole with, you pick this? Ok, so will you tell Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, PSG that they’re weak and crap teams or should someone else?
If anything, Ole’s big issue has been losing to the lesser lights. Not being able to break down and beat the likes of Newcastle, Bournemouth, Southampton (10-man Soton at that) and Palace. His record against the big teams is actually rather good. A loss each to Arsenal and City and those two to Barca. When else has he failed to get points against the big teams? Liverpool are yet to beat us (only team they’ve dropped points to this season and we should have won barring that brain-fart).
I’ve voted sack. But comments like these hardly reek of an informed opinion.
Its not a "defense mechanism" or "excuses", its explanations. If you broke your foot and called in sick for, would you appreciate if you boss told you to stop making excuses and get your lazy arse to work? Having your arguably two most talented players out with injury for months is awful. Especially considering the lacking depth of the squad at the moment. Missed penalties happen, but i am pretty confident we would have 5 more points now in the league if we scored vs Palace and Wolves. I think i read somewhere that our penalty conversion rate is 33% or something this season. Thats absurd
Movement is much, much better. Did you see our last games? Seeing Rashford and James sprint in the 80th minute to close down defenders is quite different to see Lukaku lumber around up front all day and gasping for air after breaking into a light jog. The lack of chances created in previous games is a big concern and hopefully we can improve that, but its looked a lot better with Martial as CF so hopefully its not a blip.
Regarding Lamaprd and Chelsea, i would take any "predictions" with a pinch of salt as people often like to make bold statements to gain attention, but no doubt they have done much better than anyone could imagine. They've had little injures though and a pretty easy fixture list so far in the league, so lets see if they can keep this up. Leichester cant compare to Liverpool and City squad wise, no, but i feel like everyone underestimates them just because they are not one of the traditional big 6/4. Defense is solid, their midfield is fantastic in my opinion and they have Vardy whos a proven goalscorer. If Chelsea and Leicester had kept up this form they would end the season with 82 points, which is league winning form in some years. Dont think they can do that
And yes, our very best XI is good enough to fight for a top 4, but the problem is the lack of good options. While we can field a pretty strong team when everyone is available, the back up is dinosaurs like Mata and Matic, useless players like Lindgaard or kids from the academy.
And you think that Bayern is doing right? They fired a manager after winning everything last year in their own country and they were now few points after first placed team. With that logic there would be 10 managers in a year for big teams.
To say he didn’t achive anything is just anti-Ole agenda talk without even searching for some fact. Winning league in Norway and making Molde top team is achivement. Like it or not.
I’m curious who you would like to step in. Lets hear some names.
Bayern did. Kovac is a terrible manager and was leading them no where. They struggled to win the league last season. They have a board that knows when it's the right time to act before it becomes inevitable.
And no one cares about these Molde trophies on any level of football to be totally honest. Ole so far has done absolutely nothing. Otherwise we should start putting the manager who is leading the league with Molde currently as one of our next targets when we decide to change managers. The reality is we wouldn't have thought of a a manager managing in Norway if he wasn't an ex legend, like it or not.
Also the idea of there is "no one else" is honestly kinda lame. There was no one available too when we sacked Mourinho.
I'm not saying to sack him currently but your points don’t make sense.
Young has only played because of Shaw's injury and slowly integrating Williams into the team. Hardly first choice when everyone's fit.
Terrible manager? Kovac? Making Frankfurt one of the most exciting team before going to Bayern and winning pretty much everything? Just wow. The board didn't liked him in first Place and were looking for something to get rid of him and found the game that they lost.
I know people with anti-Ole agenda don't care because that doesn't suite them at all. Ignoring his achivements while promoting manager who haven't won anything like Pochettino, Farke, Husenhuttl and so on. No, we shouldn't start putting Erling Moe as our target. Why? Difference with him and Solskjaer is huge. First, it was Solskjaer who totally transformed Molde as a team and club. Second, Solskjaer knows what it takes to win Premier League and knows the club.
This seems like an agenda driven post to me. You have no way of knowing whether the points in bold are true or not. These are simply your perceptions of the man.
Well yeah. So anyone who doesn't personally know him shouldn't be commenting on him at all on this board, one way or another then. Okay, cool - Mods, close the thread then right? Or at least remove every single post that isn't focused solely on his management skills or lack of.
Yes he was, with Bayern. They struggled massively to win the league last season and were behind in points at many points and got KOed from CL 16th round. They started this season the same way and were 4th in the league. He failed there. Fortunately for them they don't have rock bottom standards like us.
"Agenda"
No one in world football cares about what any manager does in minnows leagues like Norway. That's the hard reality whatever you like it or not, no one cared before he got the job and after Ole we won't be scouting any managers from Norwegian league, or any other league from the same level. We haven't done and won't do. Ole just got the caretaker job because he was an ex legend, then got the permanent job because of the honeymoon period. There was nothing planned re his appointment, and no he doesn't know how to win the PL as a "manager" otherwise any legend can come and will do well at any big club, and of course let's not start on this "knows the club" nonsense. You're putting too much trivial reasoning for it because you don't like the truth.Too many people fail, or simply choose not to, take the above into account at all. We are in transition - and that is a word that is widely used these days but we really are.
You're overreacting slightly here mate. Yes a forum is about opinions, but you are tearing a strip off of Ole based on things that you simply assume. 'Yes man' 'nice guy not rocking the boat' etc etc. I've seen those phrases thrown around on this forum for months now, and its a biased viewpoint. Attack the guy on results & performances, that's fair game, but on things that you cannot see? That's agenda posting right there.
Struggle or no struggle. He won everything in Germany last year. For you it is bad. For me it is achivement. In Champions League he lost against Liveprool who won the whole thing. Real and PSG went out in last 16. Juve went out in last 8. What does that tell you? That even big teams can lose.Yes he was, with Bayern. They struggled massively to win the league last season and were behind in points at many points and got KOed from CL 16th round. They started this season the same way and were 4th in the league. He failed there. Fortunately for them they don't have rock bottom standards like us.
"Agenda"
But it is you who are ignoring the truth and facts. Not me. Ole have won league titles. Just beacuse you don't care about some league doesn't mean that people overall don't care. Ole got the job because he deserved the job after picking us up from the mess and almost took us to Champions League. He deserve to be here beacuse he is improving the team.
For Bayern winning the league is not a big fuss. They won the last 6 titles before he got the job. They have big standards, unlike us. It's hard though to understand this with us having rock bottom standards at the moment.
You're free to talk big about Norwegian league, it doesn't mean anything really. We'll still not scout any manager from there post Ole, and he didn't get the job because of what he did there. He got the job because of his honeymoon period here, that's about it.
You and your standards. I don't know what Kovac could have done more. Winning intergalatic SuperLeague? Winning 3 titles is not enough for you. Some standard you have. If you don't win everything you are fired.
And no, we are not hitting rock bottom. We are clearly improving, although slow, from the mess we did to ourself since 4-5 years back.
I remember the same argument was happening about Valverde in his first season. I said he was a terrible manager in the La Liga thread and the response was that "Oh no he won the league and cup double and was about to go undefeated in the entire league campaign, he's good". Look how this turned out to be by his 3rd season. I doubt any Barca fan wants him to stay or give a shite about these 2 league titles now.
But if Bayern have big standards why did they stick by Kovac for over a year despite him failing?
Still won the German league, it earned some reprieve
There's nothing wrong with us looking at signings like this, remember where we are in the league and despite a good performance last game we are still not scoring enough. Ole doesn't seem to want to deviate at all from our counter attacking setup so Mandzukic would be a weird signing unless he were happy being a bench player. That said, if they are being brought in as experienced heads who have a 1-3 year shelf life but aren't players to build a squad around like Jose did that's fine.
Personally, speaking of attackers, I don't understand why we aren't in for Ryan Fraser when Liverpool apparently are on a free. He would pretty much guaranteed start for us RW when he wouldn't for them and is a good age, has great stats when you consider who he plays for and would give us 5 players (Martial, Rashford, James, Lingard + him) who can pretty much play across the front three.
At this stage, whoever is manager, it's about building a squad and not every player has to be a first XI superstar, we just need an increase in quality in general
Are you serious? The only player who is making us look good right now is Anthony Martial. Jose wanted to sell him!
Do you need to ask.
But are we really counter attacking? Cause for me, we are pressing, counter pressing and more importantly, just being super direct to force the opposition to make defensive mistakes. It's a bit different in my opinion. Mainly because we are not necessarily trying to pass long, we are trying to pass through quickly and towards the goal.
2 cups, amazing.
Fred was crap under Mourinho. He's doing much better under Ole. Pogba was somebody Mourinho signed for a record fee and then wanted out/dropped. Even Lindelof was poor under Mourinho and is now much improved. Of course, sadly, Ole has a long way to go to match even LVG and Mohrinho but that doesn't mean these 2 managers failed and Mourinho in particular spent a lot of money doing so
Let's hope your right. As you say it's all paper talk and we have been down that road many times
I agree we need a striker but we dont need to be buying for the short term. There are strikers mid to late 20s with experience who would make a difference and have longevity. Mands wages would start another Sanchez era again
Mate. He's had ONE good game, and 1-2 'okay' games.
No wonder we are where we are. Nothing exists at United in a wider context, everything seems to exist in a vacuum of one game. From the manager to the players. 6months of shit? One good game? There we go, all is well, press the reset button and start again. That's how we're lowering standards, by letting players off the hook as easily as that constantly. If Fred continues to impress, I'll take it back, but I'm sorry I'm not fawning over a mediocre player for one good performance. It's ridiculous.
The 'Lingard new contract' talk has gone a bit quiet lately. I would bet anything that if he turns in one amazing performance where he scores a 20yarder and a clever assist, and bang, 150k a week, 4yr new deal.
True. I've cautioned against this myself in the past. Our players are hailed as having made it too fast. I suppose one could also argue some are also rubbished too soon as well but that's understandable.
Well, to be fair, hes looked better ever since Liverpool and that Brigthon game he delivered a genuine MOTM performance. Overall i agree though. He has to show a lot more and deliver consistent performances like these, but at least the signs are promising for now
The problem with Fred under Jose was that he struggled to adapt to the tempo of the PL he was played so irregularly and when he did play he was usually terrible. So he never got used to the tempo since he was so often benched and his confidence must understandably have been at rock bottom. Fingers crossed, there might actually be a decent player in there, but we will see. To early to write him off and too early to deem him a success
I agree. With Fred though I don't think it was too soon, he looked like absolute dogshit every time he played bar 1-2 games. He's starting to look a bit better, I admit that, but he still doesn't look like a United quality midfielder. Even Anderson looked like a world-beater twice a season, would fans be happy having Fred here for 8yrs the way Anderson was? Maybe if they're happy with solidifying as a midtable team I guess.
Bit harsh on Anderson to compare him to Fred.
Anderson had a fantastic debut season. Unfortunately it was a slow steep slope down hill after that.
Personally I did like Anderson. I mean, he was a huge disappointment but very talented. I can't compare Fred to him right now. He's shown nowhere near the same quality that Anderson (in the first season or two and then in spurts) did. He's just been terrible in his time here. Hopefully the last few games are a sign of positive things to come, as he's looked quite good in them.
Ironically this has been my personal bugbear against a lot of our fans that are screaming for change without seeing the bigger picture. i.e recognising exactly where we are and how important this rebuild phase was for the future of the club. A handful of subpar performances and a section of our fanbase lose patience.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it was 'fantastic'. It was a promising debut season: nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately Bem Brasil snapped him up after that.
I see your point but it isn't a handful of subpar performances - this stems back to when we beat PSG in Paris onwards. That is the wider picture here, in my opinion, yet two 3-1 wins over lesser PL teams and apparently we're turning a corner? How many times have we been here in the past 6yrs before that corner appears again and this time even sharper?
I don't think its being particularly biased to claim that we look to be improving since the Liverpool game, or that some of our poor performances this season have been down to injuries to key players. Maybe we are turning a corner
Of course if you use PSG as a cutoff point it will look bad, but why there exactly? When Ole first came we looked awesome (which incidentally got him the job) and then we looked complete shit.
The thing is, if you take over in the middle of the season you are largely at the mercy of circumstances you cant control. Oles 12 game win streak in the start was largely down to the players being relieved of being rid of Jose who has toxic as feck. Then after (and under) the Liverpool game our injury list became fecking massive because we had shite fitness and the players simply could not handle playing at that intensity. Seriously, throughout April and until the end of the season we looked like we had ran a marathon by half an hour and by the hour mark we were dead on our feet.
I also think just looking at performances is pretty narrow. Of course they matter the most, but regarding our current predicament there are other factors as well.
Recruitment: Has been great imo. Have instantly walked into our first XI and improved us, and more importantly all of them are young.
Squad harmony: Much better it seems. I dont think players who have been given time off would have undertaken a training camp/holiday together on their own accord if they were unhappy and demotivated
Outgoing: Got rid of some deadwood and also sent away bad apple Lukaku despite it being clear he could have been useful right now. Thinking ahead is what we need
Academy player: We have sort of a weird obsession with academy players, but its part of our identity. Assuming Williams displaces Young, that would make 4/11 of our preferred starting XI academy players (Williams, Rashford, McTomminay, Pereria). Even though i think the last one needs an upgrade, 3/11 is not bad either
Age: The team we put out vs Brighton was below 24 years in average age. Considering "peak years" for most footballer are around 25-30 depending on position this is a very young starting XI with a lot of promise
Haaland: Yeah, im putting this up. Considering Oles close personal relationship with his father, his manager and the player himself, having Ole here as manager is the only realistic chance we have of signing this guy, who might be a once a generation talent. Haaland himself was born in Leeds and is a City fan. If Ole is not here, we have a cat in hells chance of getting him if say City, Barca or Bayern come calling
Honestly. I dont think we have turned a corner, if we use performances as the only parameter because the age and lack of depth will undoubtedly lead to more snags along the road
7th
. Kovac clearly isn't good enough because he had far better players at his disposal to match their position in the league. Same can't be said for Ole. I see what you're trying to say, but wasn't LVG with Di Maria, Falcao and Blind seen as fast and ruthless in 2014? And Mourinho with Bailly, Zlatan and Pogba seen as fast and ruthless in 2016? Ole is tidying up the mess that has been left and Is trying to implement foundations and set standards and a culture at the club. I don't believe he'l be the one to take us back winning leagues but if he can continue to lay foundations and get structures in place, it'll make the next mans job a lot easier.Not true. We aren't that poor to be around 7th to 10th through out the last few months either. Injuries or not, we still have better players than Newcastle, Palace, Southampton and Bournemouth.7th
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