Ole Gunnar Solskjær

[Tony Stark]

Excellent post.

I think you layed that out very well, if I could, I'd give you a like for that. And not just because I completely agree with everything you say.

Quality post.

Fantastic post but it'll fall on deaf ears on an army of Ole fanboys in here.

Excellent and fairly balanced post. I think a lot of people forget just how toxic that January was before Bruno signed.

Yep this is perfectly it and what I keep saying. The job he did from December 2018 until the end of 2020/21 season, that was a really good rebuild, where he got the chance to build on what he did, he improved us to a point and we became a good team, but not quite good enough and everyone felt it was time for the thank you, but let's make the step up from being a top 3 team to a title challenger with a manager who can achieve it (and needed the recruitment team to match it). We didn't, and it all imploded.

Imo we need a similar rebuild now to what he did in December 2018 until 20/21. We are back to needing saving before starting the rebuild, except with a decent squad so it's not so dramatic. But we need to get the feel of "Man United" back, we need more domestic/academy players in the squad for them to bring that understanding of the club into the squad again, we need to play more attacking football and a manager who takes risks and isn't afraid of using younger players, and so on.

A post with true sincerity on what happened, instead of clout by nostalgia. If possible, I think this post should be quoted constantly and put on threadmark to remind people of the TRUTH.

I’m a bit tired with all this narrative that we were on the rise, firing from all cylinders only to be held back by Ronaldo. We were not.

Promotion worthy post

Excellent post.

There's a-lot of revisionism about the quality of football that we played. Yes, he got some big wins, but more often than not, the football was lacking in quality. There were also months of awful performances and results scattered throughout his reign. For me personally, the football probably was the best by virtue of the fact that Bruno was on fire and we had a very exciting front three. It also helps his stock that the men who came after him couldn't get things to click on the pitch.

We go through this cycle every year where the Ole revisionism hits it's peak and people would actually take him back.

Thanks, lads. The intention wasn't to flame the fan wars between Ole supporters and his critics, but just look back at what a rollercoaster ride those two seasons were.

There's definitely more than one manager who can walk into the United job, the issue would be is there more than one manager who would WANT to walk into the United job in it's current form??

This post was good until the 'individual brilliance' part, this is a very lazy stick used to knock Ole and his actually fundamentally good tactics.

Personally I don't feel a club should ever go back, we need to take this club forward.

If Amorim was to walk or get pushed, I would rather the club look at someone other than Ole.

To be honest, I've never seen the "individual brilliance" bit as a stick to beat Ole with. If anything, sometimes when you have such world class talents in your squad, it's probably best to just let them go ahead and do their thing, rather than shackling them with complicated tactics. SAF did this with Ronaldo. Multiple managers in Barcelona after Pep did it with Messi. Heck, even Brendan Rodgers knew he had an ace up his sleeve with Suarez in 2013-14, and gave him the freedom and attacking space to just thrive and do his thing. This isn't to say any of these managers were tactically clueless (well, maybe Rodgers is), or that their only go-to option was their star player bailing them out.

The mistake, in Ole's case, was relying on extremely erratic and inconsistent individuals for this kind of "brilliance" - Pogba, De Gea, Martial, Rashford, etc.

Pogba, as we all know, is borderline unplayable when on form. And he was, in fact, borderline unplayable, during Ole's honeymoon period, between December 2018 and March 2019. But it was always going to be a stretch to hope that he would keep up that kind of form, or temperament. Sure enough, once Pogba's form reverted to his usual, frustrating level, our results also fell off a cliff. De Gea, who once was near on impossible to beat, was suddenly chucking them in. Martial, who had begun project restart on fire, unsurprisingly couldn't stay fit to save his life, and was pretty much a non-entity from 2020-21 onwards. Rashford, as usual, was hot and cold, and luckily for us, he had more hot days than cold under Ole (at least till 2021-22). Cavani was clutch, but he was just a stop-gap. And we all know Bruno was Bruno, doing his thing, and it helped that a record-high number of penalties came our way, which we could also convert with minimal fuss.

The issue was that it was just never going to be sustainable hoping any of these players - even Bruno - would keep up their purple-patch form for several seasons in a row, without a general attacking structure that could help them all thrive, and cover for each other's potential off-colour games. I personally never had any issue with us sitting back and playing on the counter (even against weaker teams), but I don't think we ever had a plan B, and that is what cost him his job.

 

[bludsucker]

Or some people remember the few games we tried a little harder to press and extrapolate that.

If that was the case then the stats over two whole seasons would have pointed to that. Its more likely it is the other way round.

 

[soapythecat]

Ole was great for a while, but when the wheels started to fall off he had no answer.
Ronaldo arriving was definitely the start of the shift and turnaround in fortunes, which is odd given how well he did for us.
I do think Ole would be getting this squad playing much better than Amorim (I don’t think any top flight manager could do a worse job), but getting Ole back would be a backwards step. We have to move forwards.

 

[Champ]

Thanks, lads. The intention wasn't to flame the fan wars between Ole supporters and his critics, but just look back at what a rollercoaster ride those two seasons were.




To be honest, I've never seen the "individual brilliance" bit as a stick to beat Ole with. If anything, sometimes when you have such world class talents in your squad, it's probably best to just let them go ahead and do their thing, rather than shackling them with complicated tactics. SAF did this with Ronaldo. Multiple managers in Barcelona after Pep did it with Messi. Heck, even Brendan Rodgers knew he had an ace up his sleeve with Suarez in 2013-14, and gave him the freedom and attacking space to just thrive and do his thing. This isn't to say any of these managers were tactically clueless (well, maybe Rodgers is), or that their only go-to option was their star player bailing them out.

The mistake, in Ole's case, was relying on extremely erratic and inconsistent individuals for this kind of "brilliance" - Pogba, De Gea, Martial, Rashford, etc.

Pogba, as we all know, is borderline unplayable when on form. And he was, in fact, borderline unplayable, during Ole's honeymoon period, between December 2018 and March 2019. But it was always going to be a stretch to hope that he would keep up that kind of form, or temperament. Sure enough, once Pogba's form reverted to his usual, frustrating level, our results also fell off a cliff. De Gea, who once was near on impossible to beat, was suddenly chucking them in. Martial, who had begun project restart on fire, unsurprisingly couldn't stay fit to save his life, and was pretty much a non-entity from 2020-21 onwards. Rashford, as usual, was hot and cold, and luckily for us, he had more hot days than cold under Ole (at least till 2021-22). Cavani was clutch, but he was just a stop-gap. And we all know Bruno was Bruno, doing his thing, and it helped that a record-high number of penalties came our way, which we could also convert with minimal fuss.

The issue was that it was just never going to be sustainable hoping any of these players - even Bruno - would keep up their purple-patch form for several seasons in a row, without a general attacking structure that could help them all thrive, and cover for each other's potential off-colour games. I personally never had any issue with us sitting back and playing on the counter (even against weaker teams), but I don't think we ever had a plan B, and that is what cost him his job.

Ole had multiple plans, quite often during the same game. The issue was sometimes these plans just wouldn't work.
He never relied on 'individual brilliance', to ever say so is massively disingenuous. Ole could only rely on the players he had at his disposal, so again that also was never an issue.

 

[Bert_]

The most entertaining football we've played post SAF is the latter bit of Van Gaal's first season, and for periods under Ole.

We are returning to football being played in a more direct way. With increased athleticism and emphasis on how effectively you can break over how well you can play keep-away. Ole was pretty good at that.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Ole had multiple plans, quite often during the same game. The issue was sometimes these plans just wouldn't work.
He never relied on 'individual brilliance', to ever say so is massively disingenuous. Ole could only rely on the players he had at his disposal, so again that also was never an issue.

I think people don’t realize that Ole clearly got the best out of the players he had. He was very good at building harmony within the squad which was impacted by Ronaldo’s return.

People wanted us to turn into a tika taka team because we couldn’t break down low blocks. Well Look at how difficult it was for Liverpool to break down Arsenal and Burnley. It’s hard for every team to break down low blocks.

He wasn’t a genius dogmatic tactician but he wasn’t the PE teacher some called him and still call him. He understood a club like United needed a happy and hungry dressing room

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

OGS was the perfect interim manager.

It’s ridiculous that the club didn’t plan for the longer term with the platform he had built.

 

[Martial]

At first I couldn't understand the extra vitriol towards Ole in here when (in my opinion) Moyes, Van Gaal and Ten Hag were worse, but now I get it.

There is a fanbase that, perhaps irrespective of the football club they support, have a very distinct view on how football should be played. And Ole is very much the antidote to that philosophy. If someone like him succeeds or even does equally well as someone with a more systematic and hands-on approach (Van Gaal, Ten Hag and now Amorim), then it goes against their fundamental beliefs about football. And that is a far tougher pill to swallow.

The same people would say things like "I think Fergie is the GOAT, but if he was managing now he would struggle" or "Ancelotti is a good manager, but he can only do well at a club like Real Madrid". This is all utter nonsense, of course.

You have hit the nail right on the head.

 

[DJ Jeff]

I think people don’t realize that Ole clearly got the best out of the players he had. He was very good at building harmony within the squad which was impacted by Ronaldo’s return.

People wanted us to turn into a tika taka team because we couldn’t break down low blocks. Well Look at how difficult it was for Liverpool to break down Arsenal and Burnley. It’s hard for every team to break down low blocks.

He wasn’t a genius dogmatic tactician but he wasn’t the PE teacher some called him and still call him. He understood a club like United needed a happy and hungry dressing room

Indeed. Go look at our starting lineup in 20-21 and tell me getting 74 points and reaching the Europa final with that team isn't limit of what it was capable of. Ole did well until it all came apart a few months later.

 

[Martial]

Do not get this obsession with ole. He was a great player for united. Terrible manager who had a purple patch coming in when morale was shattered. Once the vibes disappeared, the football was dire and the midfield got overrun. The same way it has since SAF.

We finished 2nd and 3rd in both full seasons under Ole.

We finished 8th and 15th in our last two seasons, are currently in 14th place with one win in four matches, and haven't won two matches in a row in over a year.

 

[DazFletch]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the second highest win percentage compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the highest average points total compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

The fecking disrespect for the great man on thee forums prove how lacking in knowledge the average online fan is.

Solskjaer's reign took a downward turn the day we signed Cristiano Ronaldo. Anybody close to Solskjaer will tell you the last player he wanted in that brilliant dressing-room he had culture-changed was Cristiano Ronaldo.

In a decade of terrible signings, bringing back Ronaldo was the worst of the lot. His insistence on playing his way (clipped balls over the top) undermined the manager who had turned a rotten dresing-room into a briliant dressing-room.

Put some fecking respect on the name Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

 

[Ole's screen]

Because mediocrity infiltrated our fanbase and now we have to praise every mediocre manager and player for showing purple patches here and there.

Or because he’s the only manager to get us to consecutive top 3 finishes. Something no “elite” manager has managed.

 

[Ole's screen]

Nope. We didn't press in any meaningful way under Ole.

Total revisionism. We were a very good pressing team under him - especially during the lockdown period.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the second highest win percentage compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the highest average points total compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

The fecking disrespect for the great man on thee forums prove how lacking in knowledge the average online fan is.

Solskjaer's reign took a downward turn the day we signed Cristiano Ronaldo. Anybody close to Solskjaer will tell you the last player he wanted in that brilliant dressing-room he had culture-changed was Cristiano Ronaldo.

In a decade of terrible signings, bringing back Ronaldo was the worst of the lot. His insistence on playing his way (clipped balls over the top) undermined the manager who had turned a rotten dresing-room into a briliant dressing-room.

Put some fecking respect on the name Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

When you say it in your own head does it make it true?

His win percentage is worse than EtH btw.

Ole just got sacked by Besiktas after less than a year so that's where his level is at the moment.

 

[NZT-One]

Total revisionism. We were a very good pressing team under him - especially during the lockdown period.

Good chance that you've mistaken players engaging aggressively for an organized press. Honestly can't believe what I am reading on here. I mean, I get it, some of the criticism was over the top, especially the PE teacher stuff. But neither the fact that criticism was partly too harsh, nor that the following managers didn't manage to lead us into promised land will increase Oles abilities as a coach. He had a good vibe on going, no question, but at what cost? At the cost of evolution, at the cost of favoritism, high salaries and fees. A few of the character traits we are now seeking to get rid of (feeling of having already made it) really kicked hard under him.

And no, it wasn't that Ronaldo destroyed a well-functioning system. What are you fecking talking about. We played fecking McFred, complained about it in most games. We were dull to watch most of the time and nobody but a few United fans thought we were a team on the up.

 

[hammerfadl]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the second highest win percentage compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the highest average points total compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

The fecking disrespect for the great man on thee forums prove how lacking in knowledge the average online fan is.

Solskjaer's reign took a downward turn the day we signed Cristiano Ronaldo. Anybody close to Solskjaer will tell you the last player he wanted in that brilliant dressing-room he had culture-changed was Cristiano Ronaldo.

In a decade of terrible signings, bringing back Ronaldo was the worst of the lot. His insistence on playing his way (clipped balls over the top) undermined the manager who had turned a rotten dresing-room into a briliant dressing-room.

Put some fecking respect on the name Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Those stats are just not true though, obviously SAF has the greatest win % apart from caretakers. Solskjaer is behind Mourinho and EtH in win %

Solskjaer is behind Mourinho, Eth and LvG in points pr game. If only counting Premier League, Mourinho is still clear of Solskjaer.

 

[anant]

Or some people remember the few games we tried a little harder to press and extrapolate that.

Point to stats saying that.

Our defensive line was higher under him than other managers, our PPDA was better under him than other managers. I dont think there is one metric that can serve as a proxy to pressing ability where Ole fares worse than Mou, Amorim, EtH

 

[Gambitx23]

Point to stats saying that.

Our defensive line was higher under him than other managers, our PPDA was better under him than other managers. I dont think there is one metric that can serve as a proxy to pressing ability where Ole fares worse than Mou, Amorim, EtH

I can't post images but there is one in the link below, we were last.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...solskjaer-manchester-united-pressing-21961427


Another factor is that Solskjaer's team have given the ball away too often in key areas - and have then failed to win it back. Of all the teams in the Premier League, only Leicester City fare worse for failed passes in their own half, while only four teams have a lower tackle success rate.

United's pressing tactics were criticised heavily in the wake of the dismal 5-0 home defeat by Liverpool in October, and the stats also suggest Solskjaer's side were lacking in this regard.

They have regained possession in the final third just 45 times this term - less than four times a match, and a total lower than it is for all but five other Premier League clubs. Liverpool, the Premier League's best team for winning the ball back deep in opposing territory, have done so 74 times this season

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59362968

 

[Gandalf]

Ole just got sacked by Besiktas after less than a year so that's where his level is at the moment.

They have sacked 6 managers in the last 2 years, this is not really something to knock Ole with it is just a symptom of how that club is run.

 

[bludsucker]

I can't post images but there is one in the link below, we were last.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...solskjaer-manchester-united-pressing-21961427


Another factor is that Solskjaer's team have given the ball away too often in key areas - and have then failed to win it back. Of all the teams in the Premier League, only Leicester City fare worse for failed passes in their own half, while only four teams have a lower tackle success rate.

United's pressing tactics were criticised heavily in the wake of the dismal 5-0 home defeat by Liverpool in October, and the stats also suggest Solskjaer's side were lacking in this regard.

They have regained possession in the final third just 45 times this term - less than four times a match, and a total lower than it is for all but five other Premier League clubs. Liverpool, the Premier League's best team for winning the ball back deep in opposing territory, have done so 74 times this season

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59362968

That stat for pressing is from the last season on ole’s reign. When Ronaldo is leading the press then klopp will also struggle to get hus team to press. Ronaldo’s transfer screwed up the teams tactics to no end. Ragnick too couldn’t get us to press.

 

[Ole's screen]

That stat for pressing is from the last season on ole’s reign. When Ronaldo is leading the press then klopp will also struggle to get hus team to press. Ronaldo’s transfer screwed up the teams tactics to no end. Ragnick too couldn’t get us to press.

Exactly. Now I totally blame Ole for not being strong enough to stand up to Ronaldo.

SAF managed plenty of older players but he was strong enough to convince them they wouldn’t play every game.

Ole should have stood up to Ronaldo and created a role for him like SAF used Teddy at times where he’d get plenty of goals through the season and hopefully help us actually win things.

However pretty early on after that it became obvious the Ole was gonna start him every game pretty much - so we couldn’t really press and get early leads - something Ole’s teams were good at doing the previous 2 years.

We were never a great pressing team for 90 minutes - but we could press in phases of a game. We had plenty of games where we pressed like mad for 30 minutes got 2 early goals and then relaxed or we built into a game and had good phases where we scored a few goals in bunches.

Honestly I prefer that kind of football - one that can be unpredictable and a little erratic - and when it all clicked together it’s the best I’ve felt as a United fan.

The only reason I would want him back is I just don’t trust anyone else to come sort this mess in a 3 year project. It’s a long term malaise this club is in and it’s a shame we don’t seem to want to reach into our historic success and try to replicate or hold on to those ways. Other top clubs do it all the time.

 

[Gambitx23]

That stat for pressing is from the last season on ole’s reign. When Ronaldo is leading the press then klopp will also struggle to get hus team to press. Ronaldo’s transfer screwed up the teams tactics to no end. Ragnick too couldn’t get us to press.

If only ole the manager had any power to pick the team sheets or transfers.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the second highest win percentage compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has the highest average points total compared to any manager throughout our club's history.

The fecking disrespect for the great man on thee forums prove how lacking in knowledge the average online fan is.

Solskjaer's reign took a downward turn the day we signed Cristiano Ronaldo. Anybody close to Solskjaer will tell you the last player he wanted in that brilliant dressing-room he had culture-changed was Cristiano Ronaldo.

In a decade of terrible signings, bringing back Ronaldo was the worst of the lot. His insistence on playing his way (clipped balls over the top) undermined the manager who had turned a rotten dresing-room into a briliant dressing-room.

Put some fecking respect on the name Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Sorry but this is another narrative that people keep giving out until it became a "fact". What "cultural change" did Ole really employ with players like Rashford, Pogba, Lingard, Greenwood, Martial, Sancho? (And we're still frustratingly stuck with Sancho and most likely would have to let him go on a free).

 

[stefan92]

Sorry but this is another narrative that people keep giving out until it became a "fact". What "cultural change" did Ole really employ with players like Rashford, Pogba, Lingard, Greenwood, Martial, Sancho? (And we're still frustratingly stuck with Sancho and most likely would have to let him go on a free).

Unilke the toxic miserable cnut Mou was Ole stood for a "boys, let's have fun" approach.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Unilke the toxic miserable cnut Mou was Ole stood for a "boys, let's have fun" approach.

Yes. And ultimately, that kind of culture is unsustainable at a professional football club aiming to get back to the level we want. See the way Rashford, Martial, Greenwood all regress after their standout 2019-2020 season and you get the answer.

 

[Enigma_87]

They have sacked 6 managers in the last 2 years, this is not really something to knock Ole with it is just a symptom of how that club is run.

It's not like clubs were lining up for him to take that job in the first place, hence the level he's at.

Don't think any big league club would be after him.

 

[stefan92]

Yes. And ultimately, that kind of culture is unsustainable at a professional football club aiming to get back to the level we want. See the way Rashford, Martial, Greenwood all regress after their standout 2019-2020 season and you get the answer.

I agree. Nonetheless it was a change

 

[NZT-One]

That stat for pressing is from the last season on ole’s reign. When Ronaldo is leading the press then klopp will also struggle to get hus team to press. Ronaldo’s transfer screwed up the teams tactics to no end. Ragnick too couldn’t get us to press.

I don't think that this is correct. Ronaldo wasn't around when Ole and his team were offered a very good chance to compete for the title in that year we came in 2nd. But when we were as close as we got we threw it away by absolutely comical losses and even more sor draws. As I said, I remember this time quite well since that was the time I started to post on here so I consumed a lot of media around football and a lot of content about the PL in general and United specifically. There was next to no neutral who considered us to be a team on the up but rather a team that managed to not implode for quite a while only to then throw it away. Yet you have people in here pointing towards our this famous win against City late in the year, ignoring that Peps team at this point was 14 points clear and most likely didn't even consider us a competitor.
When RR came in, he noticed quite soon that our team wasn't capable of playing a press like he initially wanted us to, due to fitness issues. And thats not just about Ronaldo at all - so the notion that we pressed just as good or as organized as other teams is questionworthy when the fitness levels weren't there. And it also isn't just about RR and players not trying to play for him - since ETH shattered himself with a similar approach as well in his first two league games.
Only possible explanation would be that the fitness level dropped significantly in the summer after our 2nd place and I have difficulties buying into that.

Unilke the toxic miserable cnut Mou was Ole stood for a "boys, let's have fun" approach.

As fellow Germans say "the dose makes the poison". I think, we'll never know for sure how much of a relieving effect the exit of Mou had (I am sure, that alone lifted the mood by a lot) and how much of it was on Ole. But I have no doubt, that he was the right man at the right time for us - and for what its worth, there is definitely a place for a positive work environment and vibes. But as I said - you can do overdo basically everything. And I'd say, this is to a degree, what happened. Which doesn't take away that some issues were already there when Ole came in and some issues persisted when he left.

 

[anant]

I can't post images but there is one in the link below, we were last.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...solskjaer-manchester-united-pressing-21961427


Another factor is that Solskjaer's team have given the ball away too often in key areas - and have then failed to win it back. Of all the teams in the Premier League, only Leicester City fare worse for failed passes in their own half, while only four teams have a lower tackle success rate.

United's pressing tactics were criticised heavily in the wake of the dismal 5-0 home defeat by Liverpool in October, and the stats also suggest Solskjaer's side were lacking in this regard.

They have regained possession in the final third just 45 times this term - less than four times a match, and a total lower than it is for all but five other Premier League clubs. Liverpool, the Premier League's best team for winning the ball back deep in opposing territory, have done so 74 times this season

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59362968

Again, we're referring to Ole's last season, and post Ronaldo numbers. And I think everyone acknowledges that things went tits up trying to accommodate him in the side (and honestly, I dont think there's a manager in PL that could have done so, without messing everything else up)

 

[MattofManchester]

Again, we're referring to Ole's last season, and post Ronaldo numbers. And I think everyone acknowledges that things went tits up trying to accommodate him in the side (and honestly, I dont think there's a manager in PL that could have done so, without messing everything else up)

Didn't Ole say it was a mix of things?

One, the Ronaldo signing, and two, Ole said the team felt they were ready to dominate games and make the next step, so we moved away from the system that was in place.

But that was never going to happen, when you realise our strongest team consisted of Maguire/Lindelof(Varane, to be fair), AWB, and especially with a midfield of Fred and Mctominay.
There was no logic to it, and he should have seen that. We still were not ready for that step.

 

[bludsucker]

I don't think that this is correct. Ronaldo wasn't around when Ole and his team were offered a very good chance to compete for the title in that year we came in 2nd. But when we were as close as we got we threw it away by absolutely comical losses and even more sor draws. As I said, I remember this time quite well since that was the time I started to post on here so I consumed a lot of media around football and a lot of content about the PL in general and United specifically. There was next to no neutral who considered us to be a team on the up but rather a team that managed to not implode for quite a while only to then throw it away. Yet you have people in here pointing towards our this famous win against City late in the year, ignoring that Peps team at this point was 14 points clear and most likely didn't even consider us a competitor.
When RR came in, he noticed quite soon that our team wasn't capable of playing a press like he initially wanted us to, due to fitness issues. And thats not just about Ronaldo at all - so the notion that we pressed just as good or as organized as other teams is questionworthy when the fitness levels weren't there. And it also isn't just about RR and players not trying to play for him - since ETH shattered himself with a similar approach as well in his first two league games.
Only possible explanation would be that the fitness level dropped significantly in the summer after our 2nd place and I have difficulties buying into that.

As fellow Germans say "the dose makes the poison". I think, we'll never know for sure how much of a relieving effect the exit of Mou had (I am sure, that alone lifted the mood by a lot) and how much of it was on Ole. But I have no doubt, that he was the right man at the right time for us - and for what its worth, there is definitely a place for a positive work environment and vibes. But as I said - you can do overdo basically everything. And I'd say, this is to a degree, what happened. Which doesn't take away that some issues were already there when Ole came in and some issues persisted when he left.

So the team which was putting good numbers for pressing just three months before suddenly became unfit over the summer. That must have been quite a summer for the whole team then. Or it can be that the only variable that was in the two seasons led to the lack of pressing was Ronaldo leading the line. Just point me to any stats which proves that ole’s team were lacking fitness. Also the positive vibes cannot carry on for 2 and 3/4 of a season. That half season of ole as manager might have been vibes. And that moniker stuck to him for his entire stint here ignoring the fact that vibes alone cannot carry a team for two seasons let alone back to back top 3 finishes.

 

[led_scholes]

Why the thread for a failed manager for Cardiff, us and Besiktas is so busy?

Do people actually think that he should be considered? Do people forget that fast? People just go and watch the final vs Villareal and how coward his game plan was. That is why he couldn't even win a trophy here, and he cant win in any top 10 league.

 

[bludsucker]

Why the thread for a failed manager for Cardiff, us and Besiktas is so busy?

Do people actually think that he should be considered? Do people forget that fast? People just go and watch the final vs Villareal and how coward his game plan was. That is why he couldn't even win a trophy here, and he cant win in any top 10 league.

Its because his time here seems better and better every gameweek. Also the succession of managers who have served up shite makes us want to go back for the best manager this club has had since fergie.

 

[NZT-One]

So the team which was putting good numbers for pressing just three months before suddenly became unfit over the summer. That must have been quite a summer for the whole team then.

Or: your ppda stats aren't the best indicator for pressing.
Lets look at others possible indicators then (all from fbref):

season 2019/20

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	195 (lowest number in the league)	243 (middle of the pack)	112 (most in the league)
City	204 (2nd lowest number in the league)	210 (lower middle of the pack)	100 (2nd most in the league)
United	267 (5th lowest number in the league)	231 (middle of the pack)	81 (shared 4th, middle of the pack number around 70)

context:
Liverpool - (1), 99 points, GD +52
City - (2), 81 points, GD +67
United - (3), 66 points, GD +30 same points as Chelsea but better GD

United as 4th for xG, 2nd for xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
season 2020/21

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	195 (lowest number in the league)	231 (middle of the pack)	100 (most in the league)
City	198 (2nd lowest number in the league)	212 (lower middle of the pack)	88 (4th most in the league)
United	252 (5th lowest number in the league)	239 (middle of the pack)	60 (5th LOWEST in the league)

context:
City - (1), 86 points, GD +51
United - (2), 74 points, GD +29
Liverpool - (3), 69 points, GD +26

United as 4th when looking at xG, xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
season 2021/22

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	207 (2nd lowest number in the league)	240 (middle of the pack)	107 (most in the league)
City	183 (lowest number in the league)	214 (very low middle of the pack)	101 (3rd most in the league)
United	320 (middle of the pack)	197 (2nd lowest in the league)	68 (lower middle of the pack)

context:
City - (1), 93 points, GD +73
Liverpool - (2), 92 points, GD +68
United - (6), 58 points, GD 0

United as 6th for xG, 10th for xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll save myself the time to add all numbers, just Uniteds from now on:

Season	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
2022/23	343 (middle of the pack)	231 (middle of the pack)	83 (lower middle of the pack)
2023/24	334 (middle of the pack)	240 (lower middle of the pack)	102 (middle of the pack)
2024/25	394 (3rd highest of the league)	305 (joint most of the league)	118 (4th highest with Arsenal the highest at 129)
2025/26 (so far)	middle of the pack	2nd most	higher middle of the pack

Where tackles appear certainly isn't proof of an organized or efficient press. But an indicator just like ppda. But the number of tackles in the attacking third shows that Liverpool and City were the front runners of this, while other teams moved towards it. We've been on the lower end of the pack for most of the time until ETH started to turn it up. It has to be said, that the number increased through the years, showing that more and more teams made use of more aggressive playstyles.

Again - multiple things might go into where a tackle can take place. But we can clearly see that the chance that we did have a high press is rather low.

Or it can be that the only variable that was in the two seasons led to the lack of pressing was Ronaldo leading the line.

That certainly didn't help. But the notion that he stopped a functioning machine is still wrong. That "functioning" machine didn't manage to challenge fecking Villareal for 120 minutes in the EL final only to lose on penalties. And this wasn't a one off game - such games happened on a regular basis.

Just point me to any stats which proves that ole’s team were lacking fitness.

From my understanding such stats aren't available for free.

Also the positive vibes cannot carry on for 2 and 3/4 of a season. That half season of ole as manager might have been vibes. And that moniker stuck to him for his entire stint here ignoring the fact that vibes alone cannot carry a team for two seasons let alone back to back top 3 finishes.

I didn't say it was only vibes. Ole had a simple yet effective game plan that worked often really well against bigger teams, often rather badly against smaller teams and mostly good for most of the time. But as the numbers above also can show, we weren't competitive with the best teams in the league and weren't really moving towards it since we missed the newly emerging meta(s) of the game but tried to force our luck by something, that could be described as a galactico approach (to different extents of course).

 

[NZT-One]

Its because his time here seems better and better every gameweek. Also the succession of managers who have served up shite makes us want to go back for the best manager this club has had since fergie.

It does but only for some.

 

[led_scholes]

Its because his time here seems better and better every gameweek. Also the succession of managers who have served up shite makes us want to go back for the best manager this club has had since fergie.

You mean the only one who despite spending the most did not win any trophy ? Sure, if someone has only followed football since from 2019 to 2021, may consider him ok.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

You mean the only one who despite spending the most did not win any trophy ? Sure, if someone has only followed football since from 2019 to 2021, may consider him ok.

An easy cup run can play a huge part in winning a Carabou or an FA Cup. A 38 game season is how a manager should be judged. He finished 2nd and 3rd in his two full seasons. And he got us playing the most entertaining football out of any post-Fergie managers.

 

[led_scholes]

An easy cup run can play a huge part in winning a Carabou or an FA Cup. A 38 game season is how a manager should be judged. He finished 2nd and 3rd in his two full seasons. And he got us playing the most entertaining football out of any post-Fergie managers.

This is a very absurd way to judge a manager. How come coming 3rd while having the biggest budget and your competition being Lampards Chelsea and Leicester is not considered lucky?

How come losing Fa cup games against Norwich or semi finals is not considered something against you?

And at no point we played entertaining football for periods over 10 consecutive games. This is revisionism. Nostalgia, Covid bubble and media (92 etc) got people believing that he was a top manager. 15 years of career and his only success being molde at the beginning.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

This is a very absurd way to judge a manager. How come coming 3rd while having the biggest budget and your competition being Lampards Chelsea and Leicester is not considered lucky?

How come losing Fa cup games against Norwich or semi finals is not considered something against you?

And at no point we played entertaining football for periods over 10 consecutive games. This is revisionism. Nostalgia, Covid bubble and media (92 etc) got people believing that he was a top manager. 15 years of career and his only success being molde at the beginning.

When did he lose an FA Cup game to Norwich?

How is finishing 2nd after signing a Van De Beek, Cavani on a free and teenage Pellistri and Amad considered lucky?

Alongside making up FA Cup defeats to Norwich, you're also cherry picking Leicester and Lampard's Chelsea as his only competitors whilst ignoring the fact that he finished above Klopp's Liverpool and Mourinho's Spurs.

Regarding the entertaining football: after Fergie retired, we never scored 5 or more goals in a league match up until Ole arrived. Under Ole, we scored 5 or more goals in a single match 10 times.

 

[bludsucker]

Or: your ppda stats aren't the best indicator for pressing.
Lets look at others possible indicators then (all from fbref):

season 2019/20

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	195 (lowest number in the league)	243 (middle of the pack)	112 (most in the league)
City	204 (2nd lowest number in the league)	210 (lower middle of the pack)	100 (2nd most in the league)
United	267 (5th lowest number in the league)	231 (middle of the pack)	81 (shared 4th, middle of the pack number around 70)

context:
Liverpool - (1), 99 points, GD +52
City - (2), 81 points, GD +67
United - (3), 66 points, GD +30 same points as Chelsea but better GD

United as 4th for xG, 2nd for xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
season 2020/21

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	195 (lowest number in the league)	231 (middle of the pack)	100 (most in the league)
City	198 (2nd lowest number in the league)	212 (lower middle of the pack)	88 (4th most in the league)
United	252 (5th lowest number in the league)	239 (middle of the pack)	60 (5th LOWEST in the league)

context:
City - (1), 86 points, GD +51
United - (2), 74 points, GD +29
Liverpool - (3), 69 points, GD +26

United as 4th when looking at xG, xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
season 2021/22

Team	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
Liverpool	207 (2nd lowest number in the league)	240 (middle of the pack)	107 (most in the league)
City	183 (lowest number in the league)	214 (very low middle of the pack)	101 (3rd most in the league)
United	320 (middle of the pack)	197 (2nd lowest in the league)	68 (lower middle of the pack)

context:
City - (1), 93 points, GD +73
Liverpool - (2), 92 points, GD +68
United - (6), 58 points, GD 0

United as 6th for xG, 10th for xGA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll save myself the time to add all numbers, just Uniteds from now on:

Season	Tackles Defensive third	Tackles Middle third	Tackles Attacking third
2022/23	343 (middle of the pack)	231 (middle of the pack)	83 (lower middle of the pack)
2023/24	334 (middle of the pack)	240 (lower middle of the pack)	102 (middle of the pack)
2024/25	394 (3rd highest of the league)	305 (joint most of the league)	118 (4th highest with Arsenal the highest at 129)
2025/26 (so far)	middle of the pack	2nd most	higher middle of the pack

Where tackles appear certainly isn't proof of an organized or efficient press. But an indicator just like ppda. But the number of tackles in the attacking third shows that Liverpool and City were the front runners of this, while other teams moved towards it. We've been on the lower end of the pack for most of the time until ETH started to turn it up. It has to be said, that the number increased through the years, showing that more and more teams made use of more aggressive playstyles.

Again - multiple things might go into where a tackle can take place. But we can clearly see that the chance that we did have a high press is rather low.



That certainly didn't help. But the notion that he stopped a functioning machine is still wrong. That "functioning" machine didn't manage to challenge fecking Villareal for 120 minutes in the EL final only to lose on penalties. And this wasn't a one off game - such games happened on a regular basis.

From my understanding such stats aren't available for free.

I didn't say it was only vibes. Ole had a simple yet effective game plan that worked often really well against bigger teams, often rather badly against smaller teams and mostly good for most of the time. But as the numbers above also can show, we weren't competitive with the best teams in the league and weren't really moving towards it since we missed the newly emerging meta(s) of the game but tried to force our luck by something, that could be described as a galactico approach (to different extents of course).

You compiled all those stats and came to the conclusion that ETH started putting things right for us. How did you manage that? We were consistent in the top 6 in all the categories of tackles, PPDA or distance covered under all seasons of ole except for the last three months. ETH’s team was consistently nearer the bottom half of tackles and ppda for the whole of his stint here except for the last season which i think was because of amorim.