Ole Sack Watch

Should we replace the manager ?

  • Yes - Its time to make a change

  • No - Give him more time


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Sviken

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There was nothing wrong with Ole's first couple of seasons, there was progress.

Moyes wasn't ready for the step up.
LVG was 20 years past his best.
Mourinho was 5 years past his best.
Ole can't hack it at the top.

They were all gambles and someone like Ten Hag or Potter is the exact same gamble but this time labeled "progressive" instead.
Actually, aside from the Moyes pick-up and giving Ole a full time contract, there was nothing wrong with any of these appointments. LVG we might have sacked a little too late, but the appointment itself was fine. He was coming off a strong World Cup and he did a decent job at Bayern. Mou came off a disastrous season but before that he won the title with Chelsea. Bad timing, but overall probably the best appointment the club could have done at the time since Pep and Klopp were unavailable.

What set this club back are 2 appointments - giving Moyes the job and giving Ole the full time contract. We've wasted approximately 5 years because of this and untold amount of money. If Ole simply finished his interim job, then the club searched for an actual coach, we wouldn't be in this mess. Probably have won the league or something, or at the very least challenged for it. The trophy drought and us lagging as a club are more down to the Ole appointment than anything.
 

VP89

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There was nothing wrong with Ole's first couple of seasons, there was progress.

Moyes wasn't ready for the step up.
LVG was 20 years past his best.
Mourinho was 5 years past his best.
Ole can't hack it at the top.

They were all gambles and someone like Ten Hag or Potter is the exact same gamble but this time labeled "progressive" instead.
No manager is free of gamble. In the current market we would either get Rodgers who has a host of weaknesses despite being progressive in his own right, Zidane who doesn't want us, can't speak English and has never managed this league, Poch who has never won anything and might not be available, or Ten Hag who we've discussed.

It's really a much of a muchness - if you're ruling out Ten Hag you may as rule out the rest.
 

Desert Eagle

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You'd just hope we'd have had enough time to scope out competent replacements.
Plus it can actually be easier to keep incompetent staff on while you're looking- better the devil you know and all that short-term. That seems to be where we are right now.
It all goes back to the decision making process of those hiring and firing. As long as we acquiesce to their viewing our success through a financial lens and not a football one , we will be in the Arsenal zone.
 

beer&grill

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That all you've got? Terrible take that appointing an inexperienced manager at the biggest club in the world would be a disaster? Try harder.
Said the chief cultist. You didn’t seem to have a problem with Ole at any point even though his experience is relegating Cardiff and managing in feckin Norway. Just be honest, ten Hag lacks that United DNA, that’s why you don’t want him.
 

nodlocnost2

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That's some flawless planning there.
And your flawless planning is to what to stick with Ole? Don't be afraid of change, accept it, especially when it is needed.
 

Jippy

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And your flawless planning is to what to stick with Ole? Don't be afraid of change, accept it, especially when it is needed.
No, I've never said that, we all know we need a change. I just hate the thought we make a poor decision with the change, given how long the board have had to plan.
Clearly we're stuck in a rut of benign incompetence now and they fear a bad call will send us into a toxic nosedive again, which they can't stomach. That's put us into paralysis.

Not if your incompetent staff are doing damage to the company while still under employment, unsettling other staff and putting you in a weaker position for the following financial year. Sometimes its better to hire temp staff or contractors on an interim basis while you source their permanent replacements.
Indeed, just thinking of my own personal experience with staff. He clearly isn't doing sufficient damage now to prompt the board to act.
 

Dansk

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Every season so far under Ole, we've gone through a long string of awful performances and results. Most of his signings have disappointed. His tactics are clearly below par. Pogba is desperate to leave. Rival fans are praying that he doesn't get sacked, which really says it all. Other than the fact that the owners have spent more in the last few years than they did under previous managers, I don't see what progress there is. We have a better squad now than we did under Moyes and LVG, but surely nobody could possibly claim that this is because of a manager who is uniquely gifted in signing quality players. We've simply spent more. I doubt anyone actually thinks Bruno came here because he wanted to play under Ole.

So, what progress is there that can be attributed to the manager? We still play aimless, unsightly kick-and-rush football with no plan and no discernible tactics, just 100% reliance on moments of individual brilliance. When those don't come, we don't win, period. The team plays like a team that isn't being instructed to do anything but go out there and do their best. And looking at how big a percentage of his signings have failed spectacularly, or at least barely justified their fee, what is there to be hopeful about? Nothing points towards future success. It all points to the opposite. We're about to lose Pogba on a free, and DVB likely leaves as well with a big warning to other young talents against trying their luck at United.

I cannot fathom how anyone can look at these last three seasons and say "more of that, please." Under Ole, we've been in perpetual crisis mode. How can anybody possibly be satisfied with this? Scrambling for top four finishes, winning no trophies, and several times each season it's widely agreed that he's one loss away from the sack. The play isn't improving, the results aren't improving, most of his recent signings have been particularly unsuccesful, and our current season is being kept alive by a 36 year old man without whom we would be out of contention for anything and quite possibly floundering around in 8th place. That's progress?! That's something to hold onto? I can't understand how that's rationalized.

The only reason he hasn't been sacked already is because Ronaldo volunteered to finish his career here. Since there's no future in Ronaldo, nor is there one in Ole.
 
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ShinjiNinja26

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Watched a lot of Ten Hag have you? Keen admirer of the Dutch league? Or like everyone else you've watched two Ajax games in the last 3 years and now you're an expect on "progressive" coaches? Please do enlighten us on why he's so progressive, or maybe how his team responds when they're on a losing streak?
When the feck did the say I was an expert on progressive coaches? I suggest you go and do a little research on why he’s a highly rated coach and the style of football he has his team play, it’s not hard. Instead of jumping down the throat of anyone who’s got an opinion that differs from your own.
 

lilcurt

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Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.
I actually agree with you on everything other than your view of Ten Hag, you may be proven right but I think he is a special manager.

I'm fine with a caretaker till the end of the season.
 

alexanderplatz

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That would have surely helped, but its too late now imo. I also find it bizzarre that Ole constantly praises them as "brilliant, exceptional" and whatever adjective he want to throw out there, but if they really were we would have seen that on the pitch instead of the complete mess we are right now
Sorry I wasn’t clear- I agree with what you say there. What I meant to say was that when Ole goes then the coaching team needs to go too. it’s just frustrating to have some good players here and knowing that if they just got organised they could actually achieve something. It shouldn’t have to be individual moments of brilliance saving us
 

Garethw

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Sorry I wasn’t clear- I agree with what you say there. What I meant to say was that when Ole goes then the coaching team needs to go too. it’s just frustrating to have some good players here and knowing that if they just got organised they could actually achieve something. It shouldn’t have to be individual moments of brilliance saving us
Don’t worry, any semi decent manager coming in will not accept this coaching setup. Carrack and McKenna might keep their jobs, but they won’t keep their positions.
 

golden_blunder

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Actually, aside from the Moyes pick-up and giving Ole a full time contract, there was nothing wrong with any of these appointments. LVG we might have sacked a little too late, but the appointment itself was fine. He was coming off a strong World Cup and he did a decent job at Bayern. Mou came off a disastrous season but before that he won the title with Chelsea. Bad timing, but overall probably the best appointment the club could have done at the time since Pep and Klopp were unavailable.

What set this club back are 2 appointments - giving Moyes the job and giving Ole the full time contract. We've wasted approximately 5 years because of this and untold amount of money. If Ole simply finished his interim job, then the club searched for an actual coach, we wouldn't be in this mess. Probably have won the league or something, or at the very least challenged for it. The trophy drought and us lagging as a club are more down to the Ole appointment than anything.
Don’t agree. Lvg took a wrecking ball to the squad and rebuilt it with dross.
Mourinho came in and spent more time slagging his players in public than anything
Ole has done a good job rebuilding the squad, and the the mental aspect. However he’s now gone as far as he can take them. It’s for this reason only that I want ole upgraded but with the right person not just a name that happens to be out of work.
Whoever gets the squad next will get a good squad that just needs tweaking not pulling apart again
 

Desert Eagle

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Anybody think he'll get sacked if we lose to City?

I've seen more and more people say he's gonna get the season but has he really earned that?

Any droppped points and we are behind the likes of Arsenal and Spurs possibly. Conte is not the only manager out there. Get an interim while you try to convince Zidane or Ten Hag.

If we lose I hope the board isn't stupid enough to keep him.
 

NewUser777

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Some people are just pathologically averse to changing managers or do not want to give up on a dream that "United DNA" man will become the next Fergie. Trust we, for Pep they would say "a fraud, no CL in 10 years, only can do it with money" for Klopp "7th with Borrussia in the last season, he is past it", for Fergie "did it only with Aberdeen and dropped to 4th last season, won't be able to handle big names, did not impress with Scotland" etc etc. There will always be some excuses. I mean people are downplaying Zidane's CL record for heaven's sake :)

And the board is of course trying to avoid a psychological discomfort of having to admit that (a) they are crap at choosing managers (b) they screwed up by giving Ole new contract and everyone is laughing at them when they extend contracts to coaching staff who are blatantly not good enough. That is why they are trying to at least keep Ole until the end of the season to not make themselves look bad - as opposed to acting in the best interests of the club.
I think you and a few others have misunderstood the meaning and the magnitude of “utd dna”. I think it’s safe to say we drifted from our identity as a club post Fergie, and that’s all it is about. We want the best players giving their everything for the club, and that’s about it. Identity and culture is something you will find in every football club, and even in every business around the world. It’s the ethics you pride yourself in and try to develop and develop. It’s nothing more than that. Don’t know why people get their nicker’s in a twist about that one.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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I think you and a few others have misunderstood the meaning and the magnitude of “utd dna”. I think it’s safe to say we drifted from our identity as a club post Fergie, and that’s all it is about. We want the best players giving their everything for the club, and that’s about it. Identity and culture is something you will find in every football club, and even in every business around the world. It’s the ethics you pride yourself in and try to develop and develop. It’s nothing more than that. Don’t know why people get their nicker’s in a twist about that one.
So in what way is that 'United' DNA? Don't all football clubs want that?
 

Josep Dowling

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LVG bored me to tears to the point I stopped watching our games the final 2 months. Jose could have done better in this his final season if the board had given him better than Dalot and Fred.

Ole has been given a lot of money and signed players that most fans were happy with at the timing of the transfer. The big issue is using the signings to their strengths. Donny and Sancho is currently wasting £110m on the bench when in reality it could have strengthened DM. That’s poor planning. The team is a lot stronger than our results, and above all performances have shown this season.
 

golden_blunder

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LVG bored me to tears to the point I stopped watching our games the final 2 months. Jose could have done better in this his final season if the board had given him better than Dalot and Fred.

Ole has been given a lot of money and signed players that most fans were happy with at the timing of the transfer. The big issue is using the signings to their strengths. Donny and Sancho is currently wasting £110m on the bench when in reality it could have strengthened DM. That’s poor planning. The team is a lot stronger than our results, and above all performances have shown this season.
Agreed with this. It’s why I feel Ole has done a good job but gone as far as he can
It’s also not all his fault. The club should have had a long term vision for when fergie retired
 

Bobcat

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Sorry I wasn’t clear- I agree with what you say there. What I meant to say was that when Ole goes then the coaching team needs to go too. it’s just frustrating to have some good players here and knowing that if they just got organised they could actually achieve something. It shouldn’t have to be individual moments of brilliance saving us
No apology needed, it was i who misunderstood.

But yeah, when Ole leaves, so should the staff. According to this and other reports, Ole himself is little involved in the coaching, but i just find it increasingly absurd how it never crossed his mind to replace any of his coaches. Dont even need to sack them, just move them sideways in the organization or something.

Is it loyalty? Blindness? Who the feck knows
 

Smores

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I find it very weird that some seem to only want Ole gone because of around 6 games and in their heads have decided he was great before that so they were right.

Isn't that you know a bit knee jerk if so? The exact thing shouted at others.

At least those who went back and forth on Ole and were critical at times were judging him based off details across his time here.
 

Hawks2008

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People acting like we're above hiring a manager from Ajax when we hired the Molde manager :houllier:
 

Handsome Devil

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No apology needed, it was i who misunderstood.

But yeah, when Ole leaves, so should the staff. According to this and other reports, Ole himself is little involved in the coaching, but i just find it increasingly absurd how it never crossed his mind to replace any of his coaches. Dont even need to sack them, just move them sideways in the organization or something.

Is it loyalty? Blindness? Who the feck knows
He's never done saying they do "amazing work!"
 

Highfather_24

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Identity and culture
We have no identity on the pitch, and the only culture we need is a winning culture, which we have not had for the last 3 years. We are going to play our biggest rivals at Old trafford, and even after spending 100s of millions, we are probably going to get played off the park after setting up negatively.

So that doesnt really fit in with the United DNA does it?
 

BusbyMalone

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Anybody think he'll get sacked if we lose to City?

I've seen more and more people say he's gonna get the season but has he really earned that?

Any droppped points and we are behind the likes of Arsenal and Spurs possibly. Conte is not the only manager out there. Get an interim while you try to convince Zidane or Ten Hag.

If we lose I hope the board isn't stupid enough to keep him.
I don't think he will, no. There's no clear candidate out there that's available and I think they're just going to wing it until the end of the season and change things then. We're not competing for the title, we're competing for 4th place, so the board are hoping that we fumble into fourth due to the sheer quality of the squad.

The thing is, for how bad things seem, we win on Saturday and we're on the same points as City. Which is...nuts.
 

VP89

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I don't think he will, no. There's no clear candidate out there that's available and I think they're just going to wing it until the end of the season and change things then. We're not competing for the title, we're competing for 4th place, so the board are hoping that we fumble into fourth due to the sheer quality of the squad.

The thing is, for how bad things seem, we win on Saturday and we're on the same points as City. Which is...nuts.
It just feels crazy that we wouldn't sack him just because no long term manager is available. There are 2-3 candidates out of work who can do a much better role for the remainder of the season than what he is capable of.
 

Terminator2017

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It looks like Ole is going to be with us until the end of the season at least, we need to get behind him and the team now, he has done enough to at least be given till the end of the season, I think he knows what he is doing and EVERY manager goes through a rough patch at some point, yes this is a rough patch but it won't help if we form a mutiny against him, he is one of us and cares about Manchester Unitef football club just as much as the next man does. He has my backing along with SAF and the board and 50% of Manchester United supporters. Go Ole! Show them how its done!
 

HailtotheKing

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We have no identity on the pitch, and the only culture we need is a winning culture, which we have not had for the last 3 years. We are going to play our biggest rivals at Old trafford, and even after spending 100s of millions, we are probably going to get played off the park after setting up negatively.

So that doesnt really fit in with the United DNA does it?
We don't have United DNA. It's a total smokescreen and spin job. Ole has no balls and we dont play youth. Only recently have we really started attacking and then it was a brainless attacking that led to us being massively overexposed. The only thing you could say was United DNA is our ability to come back in games. And that's purely because we have some very good players. Without Bruno in one season, without Ronaldo in this one, we wouldn't have come back so many times and Ole would be gone. But that's not remotely like the old days of us hammering the door and finally getting the goal to win the match. This is about setting up a team badly, going behind and eventually one of our amazing players pulling out a piece of individual brilliance to win or draw the game. And it's also about LUCK. Never have I seen a more lucky guy than Ole. He's lucky to have got the job, lucky to still be in the job and his luck in matches I can't even count. Whether it's playing teams without their best players like this season, or just the other team missing an incredible amount of chances. Or of course yet more individual brilliance from De Gea. People compare Ole to LVG and Mourinho but they didn't have the squad he does. Talking of, Fergie was constantly bringing in youth. Who has Ole brought in exactly except Mason Greenwood? We don't have United DNA in our board, manager, coaching, nor our captain. Look at what happens when a team scores against us. Does Maguire stand in defiance roaring at his players to COME ON, we're United? Does he bollock. He stands with his head to the ground looking sorry for himself. What kind of bollocks is that? Fergie made Keane a captain, a man in his own image. And Maguire very much reflects ours. Beaten, lacking fight, clueless. Ole was a legend of a player, will always be a legend in my eyes but he's an absolutely terrible manager who has dug his own grave with his over reliance on favorites. The church just hasn't been booked yet.

United DNA checklist

Attacking football - X
Playing youth - X
Playing with balls and going for it - X
Winning - X
United legend at the helm - Y
 

BusbyMalone

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It just feels crazy that we wouldn't sack him just because no long term manager is available. There are 2-3 candidates out of work who can do a much better role for the remainder of the season than what he is capable of.
Ultimately, if things get to disastrous levels then they will obviously pull the trigger. But I don't think it will get THAT bad because we have great players who are seemingly still playing for the manager, which is something I think the board is taking into consideration. From their perspective, the players haven't turned on him so you're going to get a certain level of competence from us. Is that level of competence enough for United? Obviously not, but it could be better than getting someone in for a few months, who would need time to settle, know they aren't going to be here for long (and the players will also know this), and completely destabilize things to the point where it DOES become disastrous.

That's what I think is going on at the club anyway. Again, all that I said there will mean jack shite if things do get so bad that there is no choice but to sack him. Or we could win on Saturday and be on the same points as City! Football!
 

emperortan

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It looks like Ole is going to be with us until the end of the season at least, we need to get behind him and the team now, he has done enough to at least be given till the end of the season, I think he knows what he is doing and EVERY manager goes through a rough patch at some point, yes this is a rough patch but it won't help if we form a mutiny against him, he is one of us and cares about Manchester Unitef football club just as much as the next man does. He has my backing along with SAF and the board and 50% of Manchester United supporters. Go Ole! Show them how its done!
only 15%, according to the poll.
 

Terminator2017

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We are only 5pts off second place in the league and look on course to qualify for the next round in the CL. People need to calm down, knee jerk reaction sacking is not going to help, Ole has a long term plan and a vision and the players are playing with more passion, commitment and character since Ole has taken over. I will actually stick my neck out and say we are in with a shot of doing a double this season, the team has changed how we play to fit Ronaldo in, only now is that plan strating to come to fruition. At this stage of season, we are not actually doing that badly its just that we are in the most difficult league in the world even SAF would have a fight on his hands with the quality in the league now.
 

Ralph1386

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List all the managers currently available who will leave their club tomorrow and join us until the end of the season. Or even list the managers available that will come in for 6 months.
Are you paying me to do this?
You don’t know which manager will leave their current club unless you ask. How would you know if Laurent Blanc would leave his Qatari club if you didn’t ask him? How did Woodward know that Ole would leave Molde to be a caretaker at United before he asked him?
 

largelyworried

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We have no identity on the pitch, and the only culture we need is a winning culture, which we have not had for the last 3 years. We are going to play our biggest rivals at Old trafford, and even after spending 100s of millions, we are probably going to get played off the park after setting up negatively.

So that doesnt really fit in with the United DNA does it?
The United DNA being used to justify Ole is just bollocks isn't it. Did Fergie worry about upsetting his players? Did he worry about falling out with the Board? Did he worry about breaking up a team if it wasn't good enough? Would he avoid dropping big names if they didn't perform?

Did he bollocks. This nicey-nicey nonsense we see nowadays isn't what the club was about. On the pitch, in the dugout and in the stands, the club was relentless. Now the players perform part time and we have a kid on work experience in the dugout.
 

shahzy

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'No candidates left'

Yeh no shit. Board as usual are incompetent idiots and stayed still and now we don't even have the option of Conte. As usual the club is pathetic from top to bottom. Won't win a thing with mediocrity that's riddled in it. All the coaching staff should be fired, the ceo (thankfully he's going), all class of 92 shouldn't be near the club I mean literally everything needs to go. You can't win with a dysfunctional system
 

Laurencio

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United DNA checklist

Attacking football - X
Playing youth - X
Playing with balls and going for it - X
Winning - X
United legend at the helm - Y
Technically it should be a demanding maverick. Busby played for City and Liverpool, and Sir Alex was a demanding scotsman with a fierce temper who changed the club top to bottom. Neither of our greatest two managers were United players and those two, the demanding non United mavericks, were far and beyond our best managers. The idea of United DNA is a modern post Ferguson concept.

So... 0 for 4?
 

Gazautd18

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People acting like we're above hiring a manager from Ajax when we hired the Molde manager :houllier:
Fkin this all day!!
In their defence I think the point they are trying to make is that Ole was untested same as ETH?
But yeah.
 

Spoony

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Technically it should be a demanding maverick. Busby played for City and Liverpool, and Sir Alex was a demanding scotsman with a fierce temper who changed the club top to bottom. Neither of our greatest two managers were United players and those two, the demanding non United mavericks, were far and beyond our best managers. The idea of United DNA is a modern post Ferguson concept.

So... 0 for 4?

It harps back to Sir Matt. When Fergie joined he said United needs to go back to Sir Matt's United way.
 

Cloud7

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We are only 5pts off second place in the league and look on course to qualify for the next round in the CL. People need to calm down, knee jerk reaction sacking is not going to help, Ole has a long term plan and a vision and the players are playing with more passion, commitment and character since Ole has taken over. I will actually stick my neck out and say we are in with a shot of doing a double this season, the team has changed how we play to fit Ronaldo in, only now is that plan strating to come to fruition. At this stage of season, we are not actually doing that badly its just that we are in the most difficult league in the world even SAF would have a fight on his hands with the quality in the league now.
:lol:
 
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