Ole Sack Watch

Should we replace the manager ?

  • Yes - Its time to make a change

  • No - Give him more time


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wolvored

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Just noticed the percentages add up to 101.7. Methinks some chicanery afoot!
 

OrcaFat

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You will have Neville and the other mates saying you cant judge him after those 2 games, hes expected to lose these.
I don’t think so. Firstly no-one thinks we should expect to lose those games, especially not Neville. Secondly, even his mates are losing faith at this point; without some big results, there’ll be nobody left to back him.
 

Sviken

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See I don't think they are incompetent at all. They are actually incredibly good at achieving their aims. It's just that their aim is to maximise their own cashflow whereas ours as football fans is to win stuff. They take us for fools because we still give them our money. And they are right.
The only way to maximize the cash flow is for the team to win. Otherwise it is a slow death until they eventually sale when the cash cow isn't profitable. They might be thinking short term - sale when things go bad. But that's not really good business because by the time things go bad our value might not be as good as it is now. They got awfully lucky with SAF who managed to keep the club where it was despite them being utterly incompetent, but now they're back down to Earth and it isn't looking pretty. They have no idea what to do and they are dragging the club down. Honestly, if SAF wasn't here, their takeover might have turned incredibly bad for our club (more so than it is) and for themselves as well.
 

Wayne's World

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After Liverpool because I think we'll get a beating that will force our hands....

Similar to Mourinho's performance at Anfield
 

Nou_Camp99

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Don't think he gets sacked this side of Christmas unless we get knocked out of the group stage.
 

Enigma_87

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The only way to maximize the cash flow is for the team to win. Otherwise it is a slow death until they eventually sale when the cash cow isn't profitable. They might be thinking short term - sale when things go bad. But that's not really good business because by the time things go bad our value might not be as good as it is now. They got awfully lucky with SAF who managed to keep the club where it was despite them being utterly incompetent, but now they're back down to Earth and it isn't looking pretty. They have no idea what to do and they are dragging the club down. Honestly, if SAF wasn't here, their takeover might have turned incredibly bad for our club (more so than it is) and for themselves as well.
Not really. Matchgoers seems to be happy us being mediocre and win feck all since 4 years now. The cash flow won't stop..
 

Chipper

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Just noticed the percentages add up to 101.7. Methinks some chicanery afoot!
I might have played a part in that. Multiple votes are allowed so I voted for both options and I suspect a few others did too. I often feel compelled to act silly in online polls, but usually it's more like voting for the option I view as most wrong. It amuses myself at least.
 

croadyman

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In all of his time here public backing hasn't just been for show. They mean it, they won't pull the plug after that renewal. Is this even close to our worst runs of form? The delusion at our club's board level is strong. It's not a fluid situation or anything, they firmly believe they have the right guy.
Yeah we are mediocrity FC and he will not be going anywhere until he fails to hit a minimum target
 

Infra-red

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I don't think he's getting sacked.

We're in Arsenal under Wenger circa 2008-16 mode - not consistently terrible enough to force our largely indifferent owners/Board into making the necessary change, but not consistently good enough to achieve anything significant either. Meanwhile, a large section of the supporters are spitting blood and want the manager gone, while others rally around to defend him, splitting the fanbase down the middle.

Ole could continue for years and years this way, as long as he brings in the 4th place trophy with some regularity.
 

smi11ie

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If he loses 3 games in a row before Christmas I think he will be sacked. That includes the Leicester game so losses to Atalanta and Liverpool might be the end for Ole. If he makes it to Christmas then I think he will be replaced in the summer
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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You will have Neville and the other mates saying you cant judge him after those 2 games, hes expected to lose these.
I'm now at a point where I can say "F*** all of them" now. I hate nothing more than pundits and journos choosing cowardice instead of saying it like it is; this is not a dictatorship AFAIK.
 

Shark

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I don't think he's getting sacked.

We're in Arsenal under Wenger circa 2008-16 mode - not consistently terrible enough to force our largely indifferent owners/Board into making the necessary change, but not consistently good enough to achieve anything significant either. Meanwhile, a large section of the supporters are spitting blood and want the manager gone, while others rally around to defend him, splitting the fanbase down the middle.

Ole could continue for years and years this way, as long as he brings in the 4th place trophy with some regularity.
We are currently consistently terrible, I'm not sure if it's even comparable to Wengers Arsenal. He got results against the fodder and had Arsenal playing good football. We're doing neither under Ole at the moment.
 

SirAnderson

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I've seen posts like this in a few threads. Excuse the ignorance but what are you talking about?
Just some fun, tried to see if there would be at least 10 threads created about Ole being sacked.
In the end I counted about 5. :)
 

amolbhatia50k

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"Protect" him from what exactly? His own mediocrity?
Criticism. We're a funny club. Always 10 steps behind. The rest of the world will be looking at alternatives for our next manager while we protect our current one and expect things to improve. We'll botch the next appointment too I fear.
 

FatTails

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These statements are meaningless. The dreaded votes of confidence.

The more statements of support a club puts out about a manager, the closer the sack is. They’re meant to buy the manager a bit of time to see if he can pull something out of the bag and turn things around. More often than not, the negative momentum continues and it is a matter of time.
 

RkkMan

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I don't think he's getting sacked.

We're in Arsenal under Wenger circa 2008-16 mode - not consistently terrible enough to force our largely indifferent owners/Board into making the necessary change, but not consistently good enough to achieve anything significant either. Meanwhile, a large section of the supporters are spitting blood and want the manager gone, while others rally around to defend him, splitting the fanbase down the middle.

Ole could continue for years and years this way, as long as he brings in the 4th place trophy with some regularity.
Not even comparable because Arsenal were at least playing good football with an average to decent squad and Wenger was barely spending anything which was used as a big excuse.
Our football is awful with the level of quality in our squad and the ridiculous amount of money Ole has spent and it will pile a lot more pressure to show a Return On Investment than was ever the case under Wenger.
 

Yakuza_devils

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I still can't believe that after 8 years of catastrophic failure on manager appointment and depressing style of play, Ed is still in charge of manager appointment. His replacement is rumoured to be another money man. This bloody club never learn.

We missed out on so many great managers while we stick with Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole. Football bloody hell.
 

BenitoSTARR

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:lol: Culture builder. Is there any stat with the top 5 Culture builders in Europe? I’m not very familiar with this trait, but maybe we can snatch someone from that list.

I thought coaching was about tactics and man management, but reading redcafe I’ve learned that culture building and vibes are equally if not more important as them. I guess while we live we learn.
Management is as much about managing people as the footballing side of things. Don’t know if you’ve ever had to actually manage anyone or anything in your life but the culture you create is vital for any kind of success. Changing a culture is the man management side.

You laugh but look at any successful person or listen to the high performance podcast for example and you’ll see quite how much culture setting matters.

The newbie system used to exist for that reason too…
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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All three of these tests need to be met before sacking Ole will even be considered:

  • Mathematically unable to finish top four
  • Out of the Champions League
  • Out of the Europa League (if we end up in that)
 

kthanksbye

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Don't think the club is sentimental about Ole, not saying that they're proactive either. Ideally, we should start shortlisting candidates right about now, but we won't, we'll wait for him to not meet one of the criteria that they must've placed.

If we make it to the CL KOs, he's not going anywhere, the board might make a move if we get beaten by Atalanta in both legs.
 

mitchmouse

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Monday papers saying his safe (mainly the highly reliable Sun) but sadly no "vote of confidence" which means he'll oversee thumpings from Liverpool and City and probably the Son/Kane show...
 

Real Name

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Fabrizio Romano says he's safe and board isnt contacting any other managers. Take from it what you will. Of course if things go further south soon they'll reconsider it. But I dont expect them to make the move even then but to wait till the last second so to speak to do it.
 

romufc

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Fabrizio Romano says he's safe and board isnt contacting any other managers. Take from it what you will. Of course if things go further south soon they'll reconsider it. But I dont expect them to make the move even then but to wait till the last second so to speak to do it.
The club would say this in public, they always have been like that. I really do hope they are looking at choices behind the scenes because it does not take a rocket scientist to realise Ole is done out here. He will not get us top 4 this season.
 

largelyworried

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It’s really not though, look at the volume of deadwood we had to get rid of before having to pretty much strengthen every area except GK and LW.

It was a huge rebuild, thanks to the mess left by ‘better managers’

The imbalance your referring to this season in particular is brought about by signing three starting 11 players and needing them to hit the ground running, on top of the ever present issue of Pogba/midfield due to the fact we were forced to sign Ronaldo instead of the DM we’ve needed for two years.

G Nev mentioned this a few weeks ago, not that I agree with him all that much recently.
Look, the start this season hasn’t been good enough anyway, I’m not denying that. But the rebuild has been done well for the vast majority.
The fact that we haven't bought a new CDM in three years is not someone else's fault. Matic looked tired even back when Mourinho was here and while McFred have their uses, they never had the look of a world class pair. At least one specialist CDM has been a target since before Ole took over and Fred was always a target for an upgrade too. I can understand not prioritising in the first season, when we had a lot of positions to address, but that excuse has sailed. Its on the management that we failed to address midfield in all that time.

The fact that he's assembled far more attackers than we can fit on the pitch makes the decision look worse. At the moment we have Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Lingard and Martial going for three spots, plus Pogba and Bruno going for one attacking midfield spot. 9 players for 4 spots, plus youth players.

Even when we do play with an attacking four, we can't find a team that balances on the pitch. Too many players want to be the one that makes the critical contribution in an attacking move. Not enough are hard workers thinking about how to link play together, or the overarching tactical plan, or sacrificing themselves to allow their teammates to thrive. Which means that an attacking four probably isn't ideal anyway.

The obvious example is Ronaldo. You cannot make Ronaldo the spearpoint of your attack without surrounding him with players who will make that work. It can work, certainly, but he needs hard workers who will make space and lay on chances for him. But when you look at the options we have in the squad, who do we have that fits the bill? The only real option is Cavani but formation wise that isnt really a goer.

I give credit to Ole for making things better, don't get me wrong, I think we're in a better place than we were. But he's definitely made mistakes in transfers recently and some of our problems on the pitch flow from those mistakes.
 

wolvored

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Him signing off on deals is normal and is the job of the CEO at most clubs. But there is numerous reports that he only does that after getting the go ahead from Joel Glazer who controls every aspect of the club when it comes to the money side.

So the above is normal at most big clubs and we can also say the board/CEO at Bayern, Liverpool, Real Madrid, City etc also sign off on the money when it comes to transfers.
That's right. Someone said in the media years ago that all transfers have to go to Joel glazer for the final nod that's why if he's unavailable they were taking so long.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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End of the season, I reckon. I'd like for him to turn it round but ultimately, is he good enough tactically and in making big decisions at the highest level? I think we all know the answer.
 

Ikon

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Sack him now. Bring in Zidane.
Zidane has repeatedly said he has absolutely no interest in the PL, so I would be very surprised if that move ever got off the ground.
 

ForeverRed1

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I just watched Romano’s new video on YouTube; he is saying that united want to protect ole and trust that his team will improve. He is safe for the time being.

it’s getting to the point now where we have to ask how much more patience can we give ole? He has had 3 years in this job and because things have been so bad previously.. we have afforded him so much time. Get rid of deadwood, change attitudes and culture, sign your own players.. gain experience even...

he has achieved all of these things.. and deserves credit for it. This squad is a midfield away from being top Draw (on paper) and yet all we see is rubbish, rubbish football against teams we should and need to beat.
The excuses have ran out this season and what we are seeing is so far from where it should be.

I have always wanted ole to succeed, what a story it would be... but I really just feel that he has taken us as far as he can now.

I can’t see him winning any major honours.

we’re also slipping away from Chelsea liverpool.. yes it’s early days but these guys won’t drop that many points... drop any further behind and we’re competing for champions league places yet again, which is not good enough any more, with this squad anything less than fighting for the trophy is inexcusable.

if a world class manager is available or becomes available... they can’t be sentimental.

sorry ole, I love
 

Ikon

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They gave him a 3+1 contract in the summer. He's not going anywhere soon, unless it gets untenable. Strap yourselves in for a long slow death.
Champions League is the key I think.
If we fail to get a win against Atalanta, then getting out of the group is looking like an uphill struggle. Then the trigger might be pulled.
But I don't see Ole being sacked as long as we are hovering around top 4 in the PL.
 

Lebowski

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Just some fun, tried to see if there would be at least 10 threads created about Ole being sacked.
In the end I counted about 5. :)
Ahhh, that makes way more sense!

I was worried it was you taking some sort of sick pleasure in United losing because it will bring us closer to our manager getting sacked.

Thanks for explaining
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Being gifted the greatest manager in history has also cursed us with the most incompetent board in history of football. Now that's karma, balancing of the Universe and what not. fecking hell.
Fergie masked the incompetent board, lack of funds, medical staff (so many injuries), incompetent scouting in the last years, even our academy was incompetent in his last years. He was literally holding everything together on his own.
Our board is likely not even the level of most Championship clubs. Imagine Fergie with City's football structure. I bet we would have won even more.
 

Rightnr

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IIRC, failing to qualify out of the group would cost us as much as paying him off (£20m) and this is without mentioning potential further wins in the direct elimination stage.

It actually makes business sense to sack him if we fail against Atalanta because the next person can have 3 games to get us out of the group.

I don't expect it to happen, of course, it'd make too much sense.
 

romufc

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IIRC, failing to qualify out of the group would cost us as much as paying him off (£20m) and this is without mentioning potential further wins in the direct elimination stage.

It actually makes business sense to sack him if we fail against Atalanta because the next person can have 3 games to get us out of the group.

I don't expect it to happen, of course, it'd make too much sense.
That is too much sense, we will give him a bit too much time where he will be 8th, 20 points off the top , 10 of top 4 and then sack him.

Its the usual Manutd way, wait until its really bad before sacking the manager.

No thought of making a proactive decision.
 

Rightnr

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So I found a source for prize money. It's slightly less than I thought for making the direct elimination stage (c.£8.5m) but we do get £2m per win and I personally can see 2 more wins with someone who knows how to coach this team.

We can get another £9-10m from making the quarters which should be doable if we win the group and don't get unlucky with a big team finishing second in their group and us getting them.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soc...ue-prize-money-2021/5i1j0n2hh9r01ffvgqfsp541l
 

DixieDean

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Foreign clubs and Chelsea have it right. They know when to sack a coach. Man Utd and a lot of English Clubs are still very old fashioned in their outlook. In Utd's case they have been fooled by the the success of Ferguson. Because he was given time they think that's the key to success. Not realizing that he was the exception to the rule.
 
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