Ole stays what does he need to do?

[mark_a]

Sit down with the coaching team and re-watch some of our games, concentrating on our opponents. Then realise we're missing some football basics that pretty much everyone else does: Pressing, tackling and pressuring other teams. It's been this way for a while, our attacking players get harried and pressed and aren't given time on the ball, yet our players give opponents time and space on the ball. Giving other teams space and freedom to attack us will seems to be our game plan? We attack OK. 1st Half vs. Atalanta we had 3 times the number of chances they had, we just had to work harder for them, whereas they cut through our pathetic lack of aggression easily with 2 of their 3 1st half chances?

Some of the "waving a leg" at the opponents that's passing for challenges these last few games has been shocking.

Pogba needs to go to. We need players that are always up for it (like Bruno). I can't imagine it's easy to tell that boy anything, hard to coach, hard to bollock. Forget him. Fergie was right about him. He's got the natural ability to be walking away with the Ballon D'Or, but doesn't have the application.

I do also think he's been let down by the club - bearing in mind what we so obviously lack, where was Ole's CDM / midfield enforcer? Our Fabinho, Fernandinho etc. Yes we've got Fred, but Fred isn't good enough. Fred should have been the backup/squad option for someone else. Both Fred and McTominay are good players, but both seem more naturally forward-pushing players.

I think what we've possibly witnessed is that Ole has gone with blind optimism (starting the same team that so easily conceded vs Atalanta) over realism. Makes you wonder what the coaching team are doing/thinking? What's that dynamic like? Who is the defensive coach? Do we have one? Either way, this was a terrible call from Ole. What did he think would happen? At the moment Liverpool are the opposite to us. Teams struggle to attack them as they close down and tackle with aggression. We just sit off. And don't start me on our playing out from the back! We've been trying this for ages, and once under pressure (which surprise surprise most other teams do) we just panic or get dispossessed. I've gone so far subconsciously wondering about this that I started to wonder if our lack of defensive pressing during training may be why our attacking players seem unprepared to get a tough time during games. Clearly madness, how else do we explain how tackling, aggression and pressing seem absent from our plan?

 

[RedBanker]

He's gone. Announcement within the next 12 hours. Watch this space.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I don't think Ole doesn't know we'd need to sit back and counter against Liverpool. He did that in the past so of course he knows.

Imo the logic behind is to accommodate Ronaldo. To do that we can't sit deep. Sitting deep and he'll be very isolated up there while he doesn't have the pace required to hit them on the counter. VVD or Konate would outpace him or beat him with their strength. We'd need a highline to keep the offensive alive, to push our shape forward in order provide for Ronaldo. But even my dog knows a highline would never work without a high press. With Ronaldo uptop there simply won't be any high press. Very weird decision from him to employ that highline yesterday.

Ronaldo can still counter attack, he has no issue with running in bursts. It's the pressing side he struggles with, having to do constant shuttle runs is different. We had plenty of speed on the wings and to be honest our attack was finding joy - it was defensively we were shocking.

As you say though unfortunately Ronaldo just isn't the type of man to start these matches IMO. We've bought a poacher who can't get into matches due to the team having no coherence.

 

[hungrywing]

What stage is bargaining?

Probably the closest thing to it is 'Ole can stay but only if he gets good coaches'.

 

[r3idy]

IF he stays and it looks an increasingly BIG IF, Needs to steady the ship at the back.

Play 3 at the back against City, Play Cavani, Drop Maguire and Shaw

 

[soapythecat]

He needs to make us tight, compact and boring again. He's done this for the last few seasons, so not sure why he can't get it done again. He needs to stop the rot.
If I were Ole, I'd take some big decisions on the chin....
I'd drop Ronaldo and Bruno
I'd go 433 with Cavani up top, deploying McT in the deepest midfield role
Try and get through a few games without conceding/getting beat and try and find some rhythm
Whatever he does, he's going to get shit for, so he may as well make big decisions. It's not like we can get worse.

 

[Mockney]

It’s gonna be so fecking funny when he plays basically the same team against Spurs.

 

[Lecland07]

Even if he stays, there is nothing he will do. I do not understand why he has not experimented with changing the formation or the players in the team. Why does he keep sticking with this 4-3-3/4-2-4 formation when it does not even work? If he was staying, then he would have to switch to another formation. The problem is this should have been done a couple of seasons ago. He should have chosen the formation right for the team and built the players around that, but he hasn't. He tried to go with a counter attacking style at a top side, which is ridiculous.

The other thing is that he clearly cannot coach a press. This is key to every big team, no matter what formation they play. There is no such thing as a pure counter attacking top side, unlike Gary Neville was proposing and saying Chelsea did, which is nonsense. It does not work as you will lose too many games, and it is too easy for small teams to stop, which form the majority of games. A top side needs to be well drilled in pressing a possession.

For me, there is absolutely nothing he can do because he does not have the capability of doing it.

 

[Strelok]

Ronaldo can still counter attack, he has no issue with running in bursts. It's the pressing side he struggles with, having to do constant shuttle runs is different. We had plenty of speed on the wings and to be honest our attack was finding joy - it was defensively we were shocking.

As you say though unfortunately Ronaldo just isn't the type of man to start these matches IMO. We've bought a poacher who can't get into matches due to the team having no coherence.

Running in burst is quite different with running on a counter. Agreed that Ronaldo still have the burst to get ahead of some defenders in a few yards to score. The problem is after that. He can't keep going for a prolong period due to his age. Which reminds me of Giggs in his late years when he had to move centrally because he lost his pace. He still got that burst over a few yards but that's it. Ronaldo is still human after all, age has catched up with him.

Agreed on you saying Ronaldo isn't the type to start these matches though. It's not his fault that he's 37 yo and it's not our fault that we happen to do not have a great midfield. It just doesn't work, bad timing for both sides I think.

 

[Pronewbie]

He's gone. Announcement within the next 12 hours. Watch this space.

Trust me bro source? I can't imagine the board having a replacement lined up, unfortunately. No use letting Solskjaer go without clearing out the backroom dross.

 

[tomaldinho1]

resign

/thread

 

[redshaw]

We get overrun in midfield, he needs 3 in there at least. With our players, a two man mid it's often like 1 player vs 3. Leicester and Pool really made Ole look silly with their 3. But it's not just a formation, players need to be instructed, when to close, when to press, Ole is not capable. Stop playing totally not ready players like Maguire, he's been a total disaster, the previous matches hasn't given him any sharpness and we've just shipped a ton of goals.

 

[red4ever 79]

He cant stay after yesterday. I have never ever seen this before. Fans have had enough

 

[Abraxas]

I'd probably try and stiffen the midfield. Matic purely sitting, Fred and McTominay to add legs. McTominay the one to get forward more. Basically an attacker dropped for a midfield presence to give us a slightly better chance of some control.

However this is just shuffling the deckchairs, we have to improve our way of playing and that comes from the training pitch.

 

[justsomebloke]

We have got to re-acquire a measure of control and defensive stability and a functioning basic game - without that, nothing else will work. We've not had that for a long run of games now, during which no fundamental adjustments to style or formation have been attempted.

It's hard to see a solution that doesn't in some way mean a change to the approach of playing four attackers with limited defensive input. Either the attackers have to put in more and better defensive work, or we have to play with fewer attackers (which would I suppose mean a conversion to a 433, though the formation in itself doesn't solve anything). I don't think we have the personnel to play 3 at the back as anything other than a defensive, counterattacking setup, and clearly that won't do against most teams.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Honestly, the thing I want to see most is shoring up our defence. If that means playing negatively for a while, so be it. Get us organised, solid and hard to break down, get a few clean sheets for a change. It's embarrassing how easy we are making it for other teams to score

 

[Nogbadthebad]

The only way I can see him remaining at the club is if they bring in a new man with the title head coach and move Ole to director of football.

Recruitment has been better with him, how much he has actually influenced that is unknown though, but the club seem to want that connection to previous success, this would be a way to keep it.

I think the best outcome for all would be if he resigns though.

 

[red4ever 79]

The only way I can see him remaining at the club is if they bring in a new man with the title head coach and move Ole to director of football.

Recruitment has been better with him, how much he has actually influenced that is unknown though, but the club seem to want that connection to previous success, this would be a way to keep it.

I think the best outcome for all would be if he resigns though.

Again is this not a bit of a myth
James
DVB
Sancho

There is just 3 off the top of my head

 

[VinzentFTW]

If he stays he will start ruin his legacy as a player. The scenes we saw at Old Trafford yesterday said enough.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Start managing the squad he has, rather than the one he would like to have.

Defend deep and counter. Don't be trying to press with this squad. Don't be expecting Maguire to move like Usain Bolt. Don't be expecting Wan Bissaka to play out like Dani Alves.

Choose a style and approach that compensates for our weaknesses, not one that exposes those weaknesses!

This.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Protest. Protest until he’s gone.

 

[largelyworried]

Expecting any sort of tactical revolution isn't realistic so we need to go back to basics. No more pressing. Sit deep with everyone behind the ball and play on the counter. Drop anyone who cannot follow these simple instructions and decides to go on a one man pressing mission.

Once you accept we're not in a title race, then I think this is a sensible approach. Its what worked for Ole early in his career. Yes we'll drop points by not being pro-active, but the balance of risk pushing forward is way off right now. Just sit deep and using the passing range of Pogba or Bruno to seek out the pace of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho on the counter.

 

[Bobcat]

Get proper coaches in asap and leave all to them.

Honestly. This.

Ole by his own admission does very little of the day to day coaching and trust that to his coaching team, but unless you are blind as a bat its clear this isnt working. To be fair, our attacking play isnt that terrible, but we are utterly brutal in defense

Ole and his coahcing team has zero clue how to set up a defense. None. I would not even call it defending, we just stand there like a bunch of cnuts and let the opponent walk through us with ease

 

[youmeletsfly]

He needs to stay for 3 more games and lose all of them 0-3.

 

[Jacob]

I would pretend as if Scott and Fred didn't exist and try to see how I would lineup without them.

 

[redshaw]

He's gone. Announcement within the next 12 hours. Watch this space.

Doesn't look like it given the clubs tweet just now

 

[Roux]

First thing Ole, new coaches or new manager should do is remove Harry Maguire from the team and take away his captaincy - he's at the centre of these past few games.

 

[Kaos]

Again is this not a bit of a myth
James
DVB
Sancho

There is just 3 off the top of my head

Can add AWB and Maguire to that list too considering how much we spent for essentially average players.

 

[DLE]

Our back 4 are incredibly disorganized, they need help to understand how to be a stronger unit in the back.

Our formation is probably confusing our players, going to 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 would help the players be more organized.

Starting Ronaldo in the front is making things difficult, players feel like he needs to be the star of the game and he becomes bigger than the team in a sense.

 

[Banana Republic]

……Just sit deep and using the passing range of Pogba or Bruno to seek out the pace of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho on the counter.

There’s no point in looking to Pogba.
His heart isn’t in it, he’s looking to leave and he’s more of a liability against the few occasions when he can turn it on.
He’s as good as gone already, with only just over 6 months left on his contract.
Rashford and Greenwood are also a big part of the problem and will take time to change that around.

 

[dal]

Play compact counter attacking football. He needs to focus on defence.

I hope he leaves though because he just stinks of failure and it is depressing. A new manager would give Utd a lift.

A lift but for how long exactly?

For me we will press anyone outside the top 6 but against the best teams we need to play on the counter and it’s what we should have done yesterday considering our defensive woes.

 

[wolvored]

First of all the fact ex players are supporting him no matter what and his statement that he has fantastic coaches and hes very close, too close to give up, shows he is as deluded as the ex players.
He wont drop Maguire, WB, Shaw, Rashford, McFred, Bruno and Ronaldo as Ronaldo apart he either bought them or thinks they are brilliant. He wont drop Ronaldo after being called out by Fergie. That leaves 2 outfield places up for grabs. This is where he will probably change things. Bailley, Sancho maybe push Ronaldo over to the left and bring in Cavani as another change if not Sancho.
Dont think it will change much results wise, but he has to do something different.

 

[Okey]

Stay for what exactly? Only acceptable reason is if the club are currently searching for a suitable replacement. No amount of time will make him become a good enough manager for us. Sparky might as well have been kept on at Citeh.

 

[largelyworried]

There’s no point in looking to Pogba.
His heart isn’t in it, he’s looking to leave and he’s more of a liability against the few occasions when he can turn it on.
He’s as good as gone already, with only just over 6 months left on his contract.
Rashford and Greenwood are also a big part of the problem and will take time to change that around.

For a tactic that simple and that short term, they're all perfectly adequate. Clearly that wouldn't work as a long term tactic for multiple reasons.

 

[KekiZeki]

Well for one, Ole shouldn't doubt his strategy and be tempted to ever park the buss. Trying to play offensively might leave you open when you are not doing your best but in time we will be the ones who hammer teams. Keep the faith!

 

[United Hobbit]

Resign.

Even that annoying interview he gave yesterday about coming too close to give up now, he didn't seem very sure of what exactly he could to do fix this rot we are fast entering, probably because he doesn't know what to do

 

[justsomebloke]

Well for one, Ole shouldn't doubt his strategy and be tempted to ever park the buss. Trying to play offensively might leave you open when you are not doing your best but in time we will be the ones who hammer teams. Keep the faith!

Keeping the faith in something that plainly isn't working is just stupid, and you're not going to hammer teams in time by just pressing on. There's huge tracts of middle ground separating what we're doing now and something that could reasonably be called "parking the bus". It clearly needs to be explored.

 

[talking robot]

He needs to resign. If he and the board insist on him staying around, he will ruin his legacy. The only thing he can possibly do at that point is bring in tactical/technical consultant-assistant coach, and face up to the fact that tactically he is way behind. He'll never do it though, and will just keep playing 4-2-3-1 with McFred in the middle and 4 attackers who won't track back, leaving us to be torn to shreds. Rince and repeat.

 

[laughtersassassin]

If Ole stays he will never be good enough so he doesn't need to do anything.

We will go in a good run soon enough as we have a better team than most in the league.

People will start to warm to the idea of giving him a chance until we collapse again.

The collapse will come again as he is a bad manager.

It's the cycle we have already been through about 6 times under Ole.

He should never have been our manager and he should never have got 3 years of it.

Give him more games and we are ruining the season.

 

[lilcurt]

What do you suggest the fans do? And what would you do to take part in not accepting it?

Don't cheer his fecking name throughout the game for a start. This isn't good enough. Get behind the team by all means but Ole needs to go.

Just seen the club statement on twitter basically backing him for the next three games. Absolute disgrace, standards have just fallen , there isn't any!!!