Oleksandr Zinchenko: The most underrated player in the PL?

[1950]

I find amusing everyone praising Citys squad. A squad that helped win them all the domestic trophies a few years ago, and can get them deep in Champions League while still winning titles. A billion pound squad with 2 full XI that would get into most other clubs first teams. All things said numerous times over the years.

Arsenal buy a couple of the squad players, suddenly they range from shite to distinctly average.

I also would like to know where the "City have two world-class players in each position" crew is.

You can't have a passenger in City's insanely high back line, without getting ruthlessly targeted by the opposition. Despite this I can't recall many instances of him getting mugged by top opposition, which suggests he has great positioning. Great in the air defensively. He has very good technique, has the tactical awareness to tuck in to support Rodri, or slot into the half space when Foden overlaps. How on earth is such a player being carried?

The bolded is wildly inaccurate. Great positioning, great in the air? He did well to adapt playing an entirely new position at a very high level (PL & CL, even if only as a rotational option), but he still struggles with balls over the top and he is quite slow and weak in duels. Smart with the ball though and good at recycling possession, which is 70%+ of most games managed by Pep.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Crazy that City have sold Sterling, Zinchenko and Jesus to CL competing Prem teams. Can't decide if it's supreme confidence or stupidity?

City didn't sell any player to its only competitor, which is Liverpool.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

If I may ask you and other Arsenal fans on here, what is the strategy with Zinchenko? Surely he can't be a Tierney replacement who looks class every time I've seen him. Is the plan to play him as an LWB in a 3/5 at the back system? I'm sure Arsenal wouldn't have signed him had they got Lisandro, but they're also completely different type of players. What's the plan here?

No clue. My guess Arteta's plan is always to get a versatile player for LB and CM. It is like Grimandi role back then. Tierney missed a lot of games last season due to injury so Zinchenko will have a lot of game time.

 

[awop]

If I may ask you and other Arsenal fans on here, what is the strategy with Zinchenko? Surely he can't be a Tierney replacement who looks class every time I've seen him. Is the plan to play him as an LWB in a 3/5 at the back system? I'm sure Arsenal wouldn't have signed him had they got Lisandro, but they're also completely different type of players. What's the plan here?

Can't be that much considering he spends half a season out injured. I can definitely see us buying a starting LB or convert Zinchenko to the spot next summer if there isn't a huge pressing need elsewhere.
I think Zinchenko will be subbed in for a midfielder the first few games while we get the defense going again. Getting Tomiyasu and Tierney playing more than 30 games is primordial for the season. Many think that he will take Xhaka's spot but i doubt it.
Maybe we overpaid by 5M and that's the City tax. Hickey went for 18m and hasnt kicked a ball, Spence 20m, has potential but still early to judge. Not having cover cost us a lot more than 5M.

 

[Mastadon]

If I may ask you and other Arsenal fans on here, what is the strategy with Zinchenko? Surely he can't be a Tierney replacement who looks class every time I've seen him. Is the plan to play him as an LWB in a 3/5 at the back system? I'm sure Arsenal wouldn't have signed him had they got Lisandro, but they're also completely different type of players. What's the plan here?

Tierney is injured half the time and he’s an easy upgrade on Swiss Charlie Adam who should be playing for Stoke instead of us. I would imagine him getting plenty of games in midfield when Tierney is available.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Tierney is injured half the time and he’s an easy upgrade on Swiss Charlie Adam who should be playing for Stoke instead of us. I would imagine him getting plenty of games in midfield when Tierney is available.

I believe Xhaka will play when he is available in Arteta's team. Now Edu needs to shop for a goal scoring right winger, not an easy task.

 

[Castia]

Arsenal doing some good business. I think G.Jesus will probably be the buy of the summer.

 

[Mastadon]

I believe Xhaka will play when he is available in Arteta's team. Now Edu needs to shop for a goal scoring right winger, not an easy task.

Arteta is an idiot if he starts the season planning to play Swiss Charlie Adam as first choice. A complete idiot. Tielemans is an easy upgrade and then Swiss Charlie Adam can F off to Stoke for 3m.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Arteta is an idiot if he starts the season planning to play Swiss Charlie Adam as first choice. A complete idiot. Tielemans is an easy upgrade and then Swiss Charlie Adam can F off to Stoke for 3m.

The way i see it Xhaka is the anchor of his team in midfield. I wonder if Edu is going to look at Cody Gakpo who can play on both right and left wing.

 

[GoonerBear]

If I may ask you and other Arsenal fans on here, what is the strategy with Zinchenko? Surely he can't be a Tierney replacement who looks class every time I've seen him. Is the plan to play him as an LWB in a 3/5 at the back system? I'm sure Arsenal wouldn't have signed him had they got Lisandro, but they're also completely different type of players. What's the plan here?

We're all a bit intrigued as well to be honest. He'll defo play left back when Tierney is injured, that's for sure. Will be become first choice, or will he play in midfield, that's what we don't know for sure. I think he'll get game time in midfield. I had no real opinion on him as a midfielder until I watched him in the summer vs Scotland and Wales and thought he was best player on the pitch both games, especially the Scotland game. He adds a dynamism that Xhaka lacks with no shortage of technique.

 

[Mastadon]

The way i see it Xhaka is the anchor of his team in midfield.

And a fine job of it he’s been doing as well. Which is what I would be saying if we were Stoke. But we are not Stoke and he’s not good enough to anchor midfield for any team with ambitions for top 4 and the CL. He’s an error prone idiot who will let you down when you need him, he’s useless on the ball, he moves like his feet are cast in cement and he will get sent off for stupid reasons and cost you points over a season. He adds nothing of note he’s easily replaced and he should have been got rid of years ago.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

And a fine job of it he’s been doing as well. Which is what I would be saying if we were Stoke. But we are not Stoke and he’s not good enough to anchor midfield for any team with ambitions for top 4 and the CL. He’s an error prone idiot who will let you down when you need him, he’s useless on the ball, he moves like his feet are cast in cement and he will get sent off for stupid reasons and cost you points over a season. He adds nothing of note he’s easily replaced and he should have been got rid of years ago.

I respect your opinion on him, but from the way how Arteta setup his team, Xhaka will play. I highly doubt Arteta will move for Tieleman after brought in Zinchenko.

 

[GoonerBear]

I respect your opinion on him, but from the way how Arteta setup his team, Xhaka will play. I highly doubt Arteta will move for Tieleman after brought in Zinchenko.

He has 2 years left on his contract. My hope the plan is to give Xhaka this season in the squad while lessening his importance to the first XI, then allowing him to leave next summer for a nominal fee.

 

[Jezpeza]

I also would like to know where the "City have two world-class players in each position" crew is.

Tbf Jesus is a good signing. We haven't seen him much as a number 9 at city but I actually think he will do well there.

Zinchenko is a weird one - he's solid but wouldn't call him world class. He was set to exit a while back but mendy got injured and he was shoehorned in at left back and did okay. Dont see where he fits at Arsenal - he wont start ahead of tierney so guess they may play him midfield but does he start?

 

[ThierryHenry14]

He has 2 years left on his contract. My hope the plan is to give Xhaka this season in the squad while lessening his importance to the first XI, then allowing him to leave next summer for a nominal fee.

I am in the minority here. I believe Arteta rated him highly and he will offer Xhaka contract extension.

 

[awop]

And a fine job of it he’s been doing as well. Which is what I would be saying if we were Stoke. But we are not Stoke and he’s not good enough to anchor midfield for any team with ambitions for top 4 and the CL. He’s an error prone idiot who will let you down when you need him, he’s useless on the ball, he moves like his feet are cast in cement and he will get sent off for stupid reasons and cost you points over a season. He adds nothing of note he’s easily replaced and he should have been got rid of years ago.

You forgot to call him the Swiss Charlie Adam in that post, please focus.

 

[1950]

Tbf Jesus is a good signing. We haven't seen him much as a number 9 at city but I actually think he will do well there.

Zinchenko is a weird one - he's solid but wouldn't call him world class. He was set to exit a while back but mendy got injured and he was shoehorned in at left back and did okay. Dont see where he fits at Arsenal - he wont start ahead of tierney so guess they may play him midfield but does he start?

My point was that neither are world-class and that the "City's 2nd 11 would win the league" types are full of shit and always have been.

 

[We need an rvn]

City didn't sell any player to its only competitor, which is Liverpool.

I'd argue Chelsea is up there to be honest. Top three are City / Liverpool and then Chelsea. Spurs, Arsenal and Utd are behind but a few transfer windows and ETH can change that for us I hope.

Crazy how strong the PL is though when you look at those 6 squads compared to Germany / France / Italy and to a degree Spain with more or less 3 teams fighting it out

 

[ThierryHenry14]

I'd argue Chelsea is up there to be honest. Top three are City / Liverpool and then Chelsea. Spurs, Arsenal and Utd are behind but a few transfer windows and ETH can change that for us I hope.

Crazy how strong the PL is though when you look at those 6 squads compared to Germany / France / Italy and to a degree Spain with more or less 3 teams fighting it out

When Pep is happy to sell Sterling to Chelsea, I doubt he sees them as competitor. City and Liverpool are so far ahead of the rest for the past 4 years, and these 2 teams keep improving their teams every summer as well, just like the rest of the top 6.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He looks good playing for Ukraine as well.

Meh 20 games in the last 3 years against teams like Cyprus.

Not saying he is bad as there is no evidence of that, just no evidence that he is particularly great either but we will see.

Also I suspect you don't watch a lot of Ukraine games and just feel a bit affronted about a new signing being questioned.

 

[We need an rvn]

When Pep is happy to sell Sterling to Chelsea, I doubt he sees them as competitor. City and Liverpool are so far ahead of the rest for the past 4 years, and these 2 teams keep improving their teams every summer as well, just like the rest of the top 6.

Selling to Zinc to Arsenal isn't going to turn you into title contenders.

Sterling, unless City know something about him (ie. losing a yard of pace, not got the initial 10 yards like he had a year ago), does make a big difference to Chelsea as I think he's a very very good player

 

[awop]

When Pep is happy to sell Sterling to Chelsea, I doubt he sees them as competitor. City and Liverpool are so far ahead of the rest for the past 4 years, and these 2 teams keep improving their teams every summer as well, just like the rest of the top 6.

At some point you also have to factor in that they just can't sell everyone to PSG. Madrid is shopping in France, Barca is....weird, italians clubs are broke and Bayern rarely need to spend big. If they want to sell and get some sort of money it has to be to top 6 PL clubs.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

At some point you also have to factor in that they just can't sell everyone to PSG. Madrid is shopping in France, Barca is....weird, italians clubs are broke and Bayern rarely need to spend big. If they want to sell and get some sort of money it has to be to top 6 PL clubs.

It is not like Man City weaken itself by selling Jesus to Arsenal and brought in Haaland as replacement anyway. Sterling had lost his starting spot last season too.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He was hardly good enough for psv. Just shows even I could be a decent fullback in a team as dominant as City.

He should also dye his hair to not look like a shite Kevin deBruyne.

 

[adexkola]

Just shows even I could be a decent fullback in a team as dominant as City.

Yeah I'm sure that's how it works

 

[Oranges038]

This is definitely opinions based, everyone has one and what not, so take mine with a grain of salt.

You can't look at it by minutes unfortunately.

The first season I highlighted, Delph fell out of form/favor, and Mendy kept on getting injured. Zinchenko seized his position at LB and it coincided with City going on a run of 18 consecutive win run to reel in Liverpool and win the league. The second season I highlighted, he and Cancelo were being rotated, however towards the business end of the season Zinchenko was the first LB, as Cancelo dropped in form somewhat. Zinchenko in particular put in an amazing performance against PSG if I recall correctly. So minutes played don't tell the full story, I think any City fan you asked would acknowledge Zinchenko playing a crucial tactical role in those seasons.

Ratings are subjective, so let's assume your point of Chilwell and Shaw outperforming him is correct. The idea of him being a passenger in City's side is insane. You can't have a passenger in City's insanely high back line, without getting ruthlessly targeted by the opposition. Despite this I can't recall many instances of him getting mugged by top opposition, which suggests he has great positioning. Great in the air defensively. He has very good technique, has the tactical awareness to tuck in to support Rodri, or slot into the half space when Foden overlaps. How on earth is such a player being carried?

He was woeful against Real.

That whole left side with him and Grealish gifted Real the goals they needed to beat them in the CL semi finals. They focused almost entirely on attacking City's left because it was the weakest side and it worked.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Yeah I'm sure that's how it works

Don't underestimate me. Ive been called an overweight Luke Shaw.

He's actually not bad though, just weird how that works. Michel Bastos was offloaded by Excelsior (Feyenoord's little brother club) and went on to be a Brazilian international.

 

[adexkola]

He was woeful against Real.

That whole left side with him and Grealish gifted Real the goals they needed to beat them in the CL semi finals. They focused almost entirely on attacking City's left because it was the weakest side and it worked.

I'm not sure singling Zinchenko out in a backline that conceded 6 goals is proof of anything, considering that he's started in many more big games with much success.

Real had success attacking down the right as well after Walker came off, for what it's worth.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He definitely isn't better technically with the ball though, which is also why Azpi can't play in the midfield.
But at FB position, yeah Azpi is better.

Yeah that's fair. My original post was hyperbolic and cheers for pointing that out.

Zinchenko is much more technical with the ball than Azpilicueta. Azpilicueta is the better defender. Zinchenko is a technical midfielder playing full back in Peps system, Azpilicueta is a full back who is also very good now more centrally in defence.

I wasn't comparing what they've achieved as players, as Azpilicueta wins that hands down as he's been much more of a mainstay in Chelsea's team. I just see some similar characteristics and how popular they are in the dressing room & within their support.

Gotcha, fair enough. Still find that a bit of an odd comparison if I'm being honest - akin to me saying that "Salomon Kalou really reminds me of Wayne Rooney insofar as they were both beloved forwards who pressed really well and could have scored more possibly". If you're looking at a Chelsea cult figure to compare Zinchenko to, the name that springs to mind for me is Juliano Belletti - as a fullback / CM flex player whose contribution went under the radar but was beloved. Comparing him to one of the PL's best defenders over the past decade is tough - but I do appreciate your point that they are similar from an intangibles/work effort/cult hero perspective.

You don't have to be a driving force to not be labeled as a passenger. You can't have 11 driving forces on the team, that's not how football works, but you can still be integral in other phases of the game (retaining possession, preventing counterattacks, and so on).

Destroying is a tad bit much, he (along with Dias on that end) got baited for the goal. It was a game won on tight margins. And all full backs have those moments. Cancelo got lost in the leadup to that goal from Salah. Your own James has a few. I wouldn't say he got destroyed. Destroyed is the Bolton fullback who had the misfortune of facing Ronaldo in 2006-07.

I would argue that if you aren't a driving force then you are by definition a passenger? I just don't ever think you could point to Zinchenko as being a vital player at any point for City.

It wasn't just the goal though for Zinchenko - he struggled hugely the whole match. He was completely caught out on the gilt-edged chance Pulisic botched, he had a somewhat miraculous recovery tackle on Havertz in the first half, etc. Destroyed is a bit strong perhaps but he was extremely poor to say the least.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Zinchenko playing in Xhaka’s position seems like a weird ass opinion. When has Zinchenko ever played DM or CM? Why wouldn’t they just sign Tielemans for the same money?

 

[sun_tzu]

I also would like to know where the "City have two world-class players in each position" crew is.
.

Their two world class left backs have been busy playing right back and ensuring they don't drop the soap respectively

They will probably bring in somebody like cucarella, theo hernandez or gaya ... all of who are an upgrade on zinchenko at left back and then use ake as an emergency option?

 

[hellhunter]

Zinchenko playing in Xhaka’s position seems like a weird ass opinion. When has Zinchenko ever played DM or CM? Why wouldn’t they just sign Tielemans for the same money?

He plays CM for Ukraine

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Looked for the poster defending a city player, saw @adexkola. Beyond a coincidence at this point how much smoke you blow up city’s ass.

 

[GoonerBear]

Zinchenko playing in Xhaka’s position seems like a weird ass opinion. When has Zinchenko ever played DM or CM? Why wouldn’t they just sign Tielemans for the same money?

We played 433 a fair bit last season. Partey as the 6, Xhaka pushed further forward as left no 8, Odegaard as right number 8.
Xhaka isn't the most creative or dynamic in that role obviously.

That's the role Zinchenko plays for Ukraine.

Tielemans could play there, and probably be better, but he won't be able to cover left back. Zinchenko in that way is 2 players in 1.

 

[adexkola]

Looked for the poster defending a city player, saw @adexkola. Beyond a coincidence at this point how much smoke you blow up city’s ass.

Don't you have much better to do than analyse a poster's post patterns?

Then again, we all post on an internet forum. Carry on

 

[adexkola]

Their two world class left backs have been busy playing right back and ensuring they don't drop the soap respectively

They will probably bring in somebody like cucarella, theo hernandez or gaya ... all of who are an upgrade on zinchenko at left back and then use ake as an emergency option?

Who's the other WC left back apart from Cancelo?

 

[sun_tzu]

Who's the other WC left back apart from Cancelo?

A fit mendy... well before he landed himself in prison... but city had a fantastic record in the games he played when fit

 

[adexkola]

A fit mendy... well before he landed himself in prison... but city had a fantastic record in the games he played when fit

Yeah I don't think Mendy had a claim to ever being world class, at City or Monaco

 

[Chief123]

For what it’s worth, apparently he’s the 2nd most successful premier league player ever.

He has a win rate of 81.6% with 62 wins out of 76 appearances.

Only Robben has a better win rate.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

I find amusing everyone praising Citys squad. A squad that helped win them all the domestic trophies a few years ago, and can get them deep in Champions League while still winning titles. A billion pound squad with 2 full XI that would get into most other clubs first teams. All things said numerous times over the years.

Arsenal buy a couple of the squad players, suddenly they range from shite to distinctly average.

City players are great when the topic is Pep