Not good enough.
Ole's 100 games in charge of United: 55W, 21D, 24L
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
They'll point to his winning streak and us chasing down Leicester to get 3rd last season meanwhile conveniently ignoring the fact that he got us into the hole in the first place by insisting on playing a formation which our players aren't suited for.
Win % (PL only):
Home games: SAF 75% - LVG 68% - JM 59% - OGS 47% - DM 44%
Away games: DM 56% - SAF 55% - OGS 52% - JM 49% - LVG 34%.
All games: SAF 65% - JM 54% - LVG 51% - DM 50% - OGS 49%.
What seems to be most concerning is that our home advantage is pretty much non-existent. Not good.
Home games: SAF 75% - LVG 68% - JM 59% - OGS 47% - DM 44%
Away games: DM 56% - SAF 55% - OGS 52% - JM 49% - LVG 34%.
All games: SAF 65% - JM 54% - LVG 51% - DM 50% - OGS 49%.
What seems to be most concerning is that our home advantage is pretty much non-existent. Not good.
How does it compare to SAF since the PL started in 1992?
I think that’s pretty obvious. You can have similar records on the whole but if you’re results / performances are on a downward trend, like LvG, then you’re more likely to get sacked.
You could have 80 wins, but lose 20 on the bounce and you’d be a goner.
Ole after Bruno's arrival. Context matters.
Win: 21
Draw: 7
Loss: 5
Win: 21
Draw: 7
Loss: 5
That was probably one of the reasons why they recruited him in the first place. It protects the club from bad press and fans complaining too much as Ole is a very likable character.
Was gonna say that. If the record is improving then that’s less of a worry. And that is what’s happening. Still, though, league results so far this season are diabolical.
92/93 was SAF's 7th season. SAF's first season was a 17-15-16 record, his second season 29-12-7 which makes it 46 wins, 27 draws and 23 losses. That's 96 games. If you want to add the next 4 to make it a 100 you add 2 wins a draw and a loss so Ole's record is better than SAF's.
Bleak reading if so.
Context matters - Ole's records in big games is more important and good, than worrying about the small fishes.
Are you a WUM?
I remember the days when we took the piss out of others for winning the ‘We beat Man United’ cup. Now we glorify our own underdog wins.
You can’t win the league just by claiming the odd scalp of your traditional rivals. The fact we struggle against so many ‘small fishes’ is precisely the problem.
How far the expectations of fans has fallen...
Forget the stats, the question is are we improving? Because I can't see it, in today's post game interview he said we didn't start the game well but he was still sat on his ass.
He's blaming lack of fans like Arsenal were allowed to bring their fans to the stadium. He has done the job stabilising the team, he's gotta go so we can kick on
He's blaming lack of fans like Arsenal were allowed to bring their fans to the stadium. He has done the job stabilising the team, he's gotta go so we can kick on
Should be sacked at some point this season and any non United guy would be. Ole will survive it. I hope i am wrong, we are stagnating with good and bad games/patches almost randomly appearing. He is just a random and average manager, and it shows.
I honestly didn't think it would be that bad. If we'd have started these games well it wouldn't really matter but you can only have such a record whilst undoubtedly improving.
Keane actually said earlier in the season, could have been after the Spurs game, that this is the season where he'll be judged and that the honeymoon period is well and truly over. That was the first instance of a mate in the media being even a tiny bit critical. Just repeated that tonight, albeit with most of the focus being the players aren't good enough.
Dunno in what universe.
Source is garbage (comments section at F365) but someone posted Ole has only won 8 league matches since taking over without a penalty. I definitely can't be bothered to check that, but the fact is it doesn't feel ridiculous to me at all.
2 years in and I still see us pretty desperately knocking on locked defenses without any clear plan or obvious tactics.
On the left we have a right-footed striker who always cuts inside flanked by a full back that doesn't create chances. On the right we have a both-footed striker who always cuts inside flanked by a full back that doesn't assist.
We have two creative midfielders that both want to play in the same position.
We have one defensive midfielder who is too old to be an effective screen, and is most useful for passing.
We have two central midfielders that want to be defensive midfielders, because they can't attack.
We've had some stellar results when playing as a counter-attacking team, but we have one of the largest wage bills in Europe. We manage to play on the backfoot to teams that we probably wouldn't want to swap a single first teamer.
A manager should be judged on how much they get out of the team they possess, and over a longer term by what they're creating.
Maybe Ole gets a pass on the latter, but on the former he's underperforming, just empirically.
He'll keep his job because he's cheap, replacing him is expensive and he is lovely with the media.
2 years in and I still see us pretty desperately knocking on locked defenses without any clear plan or obvious tactics.
On the left we have a right-footed striker who always cuts inside flanked by a full back that doesn't create chances. On the right we have a both-footed striker who always cuts inside flanked by a full back that doesn't assist.
We have two creative midfielders that both want to play in the same position.
We have one defensive midfielder who is too old to be an effective screen, and is most useful for passing.
We have two central midfielders that want to be defensive midfielders, because they can't attack.
We've had some stellar results when playing as a counter-attacking team, but we have one of the largest wage bills in Europe. We manage to play on the backfoot to teams that we probably wouldn't want to swap a single first teamer.
A manager should be judged on how much they get out of the team they possess, and over a longer term by what they're creating.
Maybe Ole gets a pass on the latter, but on the former he's underperforming, just empirically.
He'll keep his job because he's cheap, replacing him is expensive and he is lovely with the media.
I think Keane was bang right tonight. Simply can’t have the ups and downs that we’ve had and are having, as good as some of the ups feel (I was in Paris and went to all 8 away games when he took over so first hand enjoyed the good times). We have to get back to a point where we lose 6 games a season not 2 games a month.
I think his point is that win percentage is a shallow stat because it ignores draw to loss ratio. Presenting 55:20:25 as equal to 55:35:10 is why the stat isn't valuable. Yeah it's an obvious point so why do people continue citing win percentage when they should use points per game if they really want to gauge performance. Just a pet peeve
Yet there is a nagging feeling of regressing to the mean, so to speak. Even with Bruno, we are more and more starting to resemble the United of late 2019 than the United of spring 2020 (European results notwithstanding.)
And that ended well
If you’re bringing in context you may as well bring in Ole this season.
It’s got an air of predictability about what’s going to happen , He’s playing Bruno left midfield FFS And he’s pretty much saved his job since he joined and he’s decided to accommodate someone else .
May as well start Scotty centre back next
May as well start Scotty centre back next
T
While it's small, the winds are starting to change, and it's not good for Ole.
To be fair, Ian Wright even hounded Scholes today until he admitted that Ole has made questionable decisions and United need to figure out what to do next.
While it's small, the winds are starting to change, and it's not good for Ole.
Yea and rightly so because it doesn't make sense to go into Europe and beat last years finalists on their home turf and then a semi-finalist on our own patch and then produce the performances we did today and against Chelsea. Its like two different teams.
He's also said he would build a team around Pogba in the past but now we are shoe horning him into the team when he should be dropped outright for his recent performances.
I don't know what the stats are but I feel like we are a much worse team when Pogba is on the pitch. I bet if you looked our best results when he doesn't feature.
They need to get a run of games or Ole will be gone before Christmas.
Nah league form just isn't acceptable,not bothered about how we are playing in europe either
Our record in big games is good because we have some quality attacking players with pace, and they can wreak havoc on the break. We don't have any evidence of any sort of decent attacking coaching though, and that's why we struggle against pretty much anyone else who doesn't come out to attack us. Ole has done pretty well with us and will set us up well for when we replace him with a proper top manager. Ole's a caretaker manager who we don't want to replace because he's Ole. It won't mean he's failed. It just means he's taken us as far as he can. We have a good squad, but Ole won't ever have us competing for the top honors or give us consistency in the league. He just doesn't know how to set us up to do anything more.
We shouldn't be surprised really. We took a punt on an under qualified manager and like most of those, it didn't come off.
Funny thing is, Ole is possibly being kept in the job largely because of the competition being weak. We did go on a very good run last season but all in all with 66 points we needed the "fight" for 3rd/4th to be absolute dross to give us a chance. This season as well, Ole will continue as our manager only because the standard of top 4 challengers is really poor and a team that has started the season as appallingly as us will still always be within reach.
So essentially we'll hang on to him too long because of the holy grail of 4th being achievable in the PL or in sight because everyone is a bit shit, but he will eventually go because he's clearly not good enough.
And I wonder whether that's actually good for us? Yes it helps us meet financial objectives and as fans gives us hope and being in the CL one year too. But it's delaying the inevitable and the road to true progress under the right manager (if that clown Woodward can ever find one).
Context matters but not when applying as poorly as that. You play "small fish" (what is fishes?) most weeks and "big games" rarely.
Winning against Arsenal = 3 pts
Winning against Cardiff = 3 pts
And really, apart from our immense finances, history and fan base.. we’re no longer in the big fish league in footballing terms these days.
That record has gone as well this season, got pumped 6-1 by spurs, drew 0-0 vs chelsea and lost 1-0 vs Arsenal.
PL 20/21, 7 points in 6 games with Bruno. Context matters.
It's worse than Moyes, how can it possibly be good enough? Everyone knows the answer but some of you like Ole so much that you don't see how out of his depth he is as a manager here.
Jamie Redknapp summed it up on Sky last night when he said the United fans know what needs to be done but it's like shooting Bambi. When Jamie Redknapp is the voice of reason you know it's going tits up.
I agree, Wright had some really good pointers out there. One being that the need of having two DM players because your CB's are to slow and fragile and the lack of motivation. Scholes tried to save it by going into the shouldn't be any need to motivate players playing for Utd and all that stuff. The problem is again that having players like Pogba who should be played because of their talents but having to change other players positions due to that.
The reason we need to have McT and Fred is because Pogba can't defend and track back and for the same reason he needs to help out our CB's because they're are slow and easily outfought. I remember when Keane said that that the same group would be Ole's downfall that got rid of Mourinho well here we are.
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We looked severely fatigued up until the Newcastle game. Also, why do you not include the big wins in the CL when judging Ole? The CL is just as important and impressive.
But even if you're the type that literally only cares about the PL: the season is way too young to freak out. We're 6 points behind the 3rd place with a game in hand for fecks sake. The only justifiable reason to freak out now would be if you genuinely think we're the best team in the league on paper.
It's not too young to freak out. We've started off badly and we are not competing with just two or three teams for top 4. There are about 7 teams plus us fighting for that top 4 spot. This is like when people say it's too early in the transfer window to start panicking on not being linked with anyone
Yes it is. 7 games is a small sample. And we were still "on a vacation" for the first 4 games, which makes the sample even smaller.
I'm sorry, but this may be one of the worst comparisons I've seen for a while.