Ole's man-management and playing his favorites

red4ever 79

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I think his man management is what has kept him the job as he is in general a very likeable person.
I don’t disagree that his squad management could be better. There were times last season where Fernandes and Maguire looked like they had ran a marathon before the match had started. But then considering how the defence fell apart when Maguire wasn’t there, or how badly we struggled to break teams down before we signed Fernandes it’s hardly surprising that Ole played them when ever he could. But there were defiantly some cup games they should not have fully rested, instead of what normally happened of them being in the bench and brought on when things went inevitably bad without them.

For me though that points towards Ole failings as a coach. Relying on individual skill of players rather than been able to construct a team full of good players capable of defending or attacking as a unit.
One of SAF's major attributes was managing the squad, making everyone feel that they have a role to play. I dont see that with Ole at all
How must Bailly feel despite signing a new 4 year contract to have a less than half fit Maguire start in front of him
How must Donny feel to not be given a fair opportunity and to sit there week in week out and see the midfield in front of him
Agree on the coaching issue. This is the glaring failure that sticks out
 

Nytram Shakes

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And there is your problem Ole is loved well by everyone except Donny. He is not ruthless enough if his manager style is dependent on individual skill to get the team over the line it's just not good enough to compete at the very top. Pep has dropped Sterling and basically said get back into form or you don't play. Look at Chelsea's coach 6 months won the champions league he won it by not being nice but ruthless. I love Ole myself however unless he decides to take charge and rock the boat a little United will not win anything under this Ole.
In fairness, Ole's favorites are generally the players who have played the best for him. You can also argue Ole has dropped big-name players when they are out of form Pogba and de Gea both spent chunks of last season on the bench. We've also seen him hall of Sancho nearly every week for below-par performances despite him costing 70mil and even tell Ronaldo he needs rest(which i imagine didn't go down well). Also the players Ole hardly drops, like Fernandes and Maguire have hardly had a lot of competition to take their place. When Maguire was out of the team the defense fell apart. When Fernandes is out of form the team struggles to create.
Its easy for Pep to leave out Sterling if other players come in and play well, but whenever Donny has come on he has looked average at best and Pogba has consistently shown his best position is on the left.
So i don't really think it's the ruthlessness that is the issue. I think it simply that when you look at the real top managers in the game today their teams have a structure to how they attack and how they defend which underpins all other tactics, so even if the tactics for an individual game aren't going great or if their top performer is having a bad game they have that to fall back on. Ole and the set of coaches he has with them clearly aren't up to that level as his teams don't do that they rely on individual skill and 1 off tactics.
 
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Nytram Shakes

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One of SAF's major attributes was managing the squad, making everyone feel that they have a role to play. I dont see that with Ole at all
How must Bailly feel despite signing a new 4 year contract to have a less than half fit Maguire start in front of him
How must Donny feel to not be given a fair opportunity and to sit there week in week out and see the midfield in front of him
Agree on the coaching issue. This is the glaring failure that sticks out
Your comparing Ole to Fergie that's a bit harsh Fergie is one of the greatest managers of all time. Ole Obviously isn't. But even Fergie had issues especially towards the end in keeping hold of players way past their prime, overly rotating young players who clearly needed regular football to progress, so I wouldn't say even the greatest manager of all time always got that right. Squad management is incredibly hard.
I was on the Maguire needs a rest train last season, but look how our defense just fell apart without him towards the end of last season it's not hard to see why Ole thinks Maguire needs to play whenever he can.
As for Donny, yeah his time has been very limited but if your an attacking midfielder and sign for a club with Fernandes and Pogba of course that is going to be the case. If you are in that situation you need to make use of any limited game time you are given and Donny, unfortunately, hasn't. his best performances so far you would describe as Ok.
In fairness, I definitely think Maguire and Fernandes should have been rested a bit more than they were last season and they were clearly shattered by the end and that is on Ole. But this issue was simply had no plan B when those guys weren't there and that's because Ole isn't a good enough coach to provide 1 for players to fall back on when the top players don't bail them out.
 

red4ever 79

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Your comparing Ole to Fergie that's a bit harsh Fergie is one of the greatest managers of all time. Ole Obviously isn't. But even Fergie had issues especially towards the end in keeping hold of players way past their prime, overly rotating young players who clearly needed regular football to progress, so I wouldn't say even the greatest manager of all time always got that right. Squad management is incredibly hard.
I was on the Maguire needs a rest train last season, but look how our defense just fell apart without him towards the end of last season it's not hard to see why Ole thinks Maguire needs to play whenever he can.
As for Donny, yeah his time has been very limited but if your an attacking midfielder and sign for a club with Fernandes and Pogba of course that is going to be the case. If you are in that situation you need to make use of any limited game time you are given and Donny, unfortunately, hasn't. his best performances so far you would describe as Ok.
In fairness, I definitely think Maguire and Fernandes should have been rested a bit more than they were last season and they were clearly shattered by the end and that is on Ole. But this issue was simply had no plan B when those guys weren't there and that's because Ole isn't a good enough coach to provide 1 for players to fall back on when the top players don't bail them out.
Makes the decision to give Bailly a new contract even more ludicrous.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Makes the decision to give Bailly a new contract even more ludicrous.
I don't disagree with that. But not sure that is on Ole, the whole give every squad player a new big long-term contract every 5 mins is an issue that predates Ole and dates back to Fergies time at the club.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I don't disagree with that. But not sure that is on Ole, the whole give every squad player a new big long-term contract every 5 mins is an issue that predates Ole and dates back to Fergies time at the club.
It's to keep their value, but we pay them so much money no other club will sign them.
 

FreakyJim

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I honestly think Simon Grayson will do the exact same job as good as Ole. "Desire, effort, tackling".

I'm pretty sure most of the coaches from the Championship to league 2 could do the job.
 

red4ever 79

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I don't disagree with that. But not sure that is on Ole, the whole give every squad player a new big long-term contract every 5 mins is an issue that predates Ole and dates back to Fergies time at the club.
You dont think the manager has the final say on who comes and goes in the squad?
What about the decision to renew Mata then?
 

Wonder Pigeon

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I'm sure he didn't mean it that way but given all the spotlight there's been on the abuse players like Rashford get online and otherwise, you would be disappointed if the people who've been telling you to 'stick to football' for the last 18 months now get to add the words 'even your manager thinks that you should' to the front of it.
 

Nytram Shakes

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It's to keep their value, but we pay them so much money no other club will sign them.
I kind of assumed it was an accounting thing, basically keeps the value you off the squad there for keeping the value of the club, which helps things like stock price interest rates and things. But that's a bit above my knowledge. But its something that has been going on pretty much since Ole was a player at the club so seems harsh to blame him for it.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I kind of assumed it was an accounting thing, basically keeps the value you off the squad there for keeping the value of the club, which helps things like stock price interest rates and things. But that's a bit above my knowledge. But its something that has been going on pretty much since Ole was a player at the club so seems harsh to blame him for it.
He will have sanctioned it, but yes it has been going on well before Ole took over. It is a club thing.
 

reelworld

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I'm sure he didn't mean it that way but given all the spotlight there's been on the abuse players like Rashford get online and otherwise, you would be disappointed if the people who've been telling you to 'stick to football' for the last 18 months now get to add the words 'even your manager thinks that you should' to the front of it.
Yeah exactly. Why give those people more ammunition?
He also played through injury for Solskjaer because he's too stubborn to play anyone else. Why even indicate to question his commitment? Ole doesn't need to answer it like that
 

Nytram Shakes

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You dont think the manager has the final say on who comes and goes in the squad?
What about the decision to renew Mata then?
I think the manager has a say on who stays and leaves, but I don't think it's an all-powerful say. Think there is a lot of accounting that goes on. I think it's very clear that the club's hierarchy would in general rather overpay squad players rather than see them leave on a free. I don't think this is a new thing. You can go back years, Anderson kept getting contract past when it was clear he would be ever at a fitness where he could contribute, Rojo got a new contract when he was about a year away from coming back from an injury. The club seems to in general value having players on the books rather than losing them for free. I think of all the sticks to beat Ole with that 1 is above his pay grade.
He probably has some say. But of course, he would rather have Bailey and Mata around, buying a squad player center back is still gonna be 20+ million ( at a bare minimum) and our transfer funds aren't endless so he won't want him to leave as he is a useful 4th choice. and by all accounts, Mata is great to have around doesn't complain if he doesn't play, and is a solid squad player. So why would Ole kick up a fuss about them getting new contracts?
 

largelyworried

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Yikes
These rumbles always come out of clubs having a bad time. Never sure if its actually because more problems are popping up, or just because journalists like writing more stories about clubs in trouble.
 

NewGlory

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Who are his favourites that wouldn’t be picked by another manager?
Maguire. Who had just come back from injury and was clearly not recovered. Neither did he have enough exercise, only one training is not enough. Forget about picking him, he didn't even take him off when it was painfully obvious Maguire wasn't well and Leicester was trying to expose him. We were still 1:1 at 75min. Had he taken off Maguire it would have changed the course of the game. You can only speculate if it could have saved the game, but at least it was clearly important move. Why the hell else do you have substitutes on the bench? What was the fecking point of bringing McT who cannot play a DMF and caused us third goal?

Bailly was at least fit, had trained for weeks, as opposed to Maguire. Why the hell are we paying him and have him on the bench if he cannot be trusted even when Maguire is obviously messed up?
 

reelworld

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As admirable as Rashford's polticial campaigning is, Manchester United pay him a fortune to play football and it should be his number one priority.

Hard to imagine his mind is as focused on football as it should be if he's in a running battle with the government.
There's never any proof that what Rashford does off the pitch is affecting what he does on it
 

red4ever 79

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I think the manager has a say on who stays and leaves, but I don't think it's an all-powerful say. Think there is a lot of accounting that goes on. I think it's very clear that the club's hierarchy would in general rather overpay squad players rather than see them leave on a free. I don't think this is a new thing. You can go back years, Anderson kept getting contract past when it was clear he would be ever at a fitness where he could contribute, Rojo got a new contract when he was about a year away from coming back from an injury. The club seems to in general value having players on the books rather than losing them for free. I think of all the sticks to beat Ole with that 1 is above his pay grade.
He probably has some say. But of course, he would rather have Bailey and Mata around, buying a squad player center back is still gonna be 20+ million ( at a bare minimum) and our transfer funds aren't endless so he won't want him to leave as he is a useful 4th choice. and by all accounts, Mata is great to have around doesn't complain if he doesn't play, and is a solid squad player. So why would Ole kick up a fuss about them getting new contracts?
Would have loved to have known the conversation behind the decision to keep Mata. Played around 60 mins this season
 

Nytram Shakes

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Would have loved to have known the conversation behind the decision to keep Mata. Played around 60 mins this season
I imagine it was simply he is a good experienced head to have around and good squad depth.
Not an awful decision giving him a 1 year deal. Will have made no difference to our transfer policy.
 

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Yikes
That was terrible from Ole. First of all, I don't think there's any proof that Rashford wasn't training well or not doing his job properly. Second, what Rashford achieved is more important than football.

I swear Ole just says things without really thinking. Just look at how Klopp handles himself when it comes to social issues or football as a whole. Rashfod has every right to be upset.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Would have rather Elanga played those 60 mins
Yeah me too, personly though I think it's a bigger issue that Elanga hasn't gone on loan. whether Mata stayed or not the amount of attackers we have meant that his playing time and therefore his progress was always going to be severely limited.
 

el3mel

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His man management skills are actually shit. The only player I think he managed properly is Pogba, otherwise he shows zero trust in his sub players and expect them to breathe fire from their mouths when they get thrown random chances. His management of Rashford has been poor as well.

His only man management skill is keeping the players happy. He's uncapable of squeezing more from his players, and uncapable of utilizing his bench options.
 

united_99

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That was terrible from Ole. First of all, I don't think there's any proof that Rashford wasn't training well or not doing his job properly. Second, what Rashford achieved is more important than football.

I swear Ole just says things without really thinking. Just look at how Klopp handles himself when it comes to social issues or football as a whole. Rashfod has every right to be upset.
The club is paying Marcus a lot to play football. Therefore if they feel his off-field activity is influencing his football (not training properly, not being focused, etc.) then they have every right to address this.

However they need to provide solid evidence to Marcus first that he is indeed not focused. So far I have only seen evidence of us overplaying him. And making such a comment before his return after a longer absence made no sense at all.
Second this needs to be discussed behind closed doors. I was very surprised by Ole’s comments as usually he doesn’t criticise players openly.
 

el3mel

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That's hilarious because Pogba seems absolutely done with Ole, more so than any other player.
I was talking about the period when Pogba and his agent talked about leaving and Ole benched him then reintroduced him gradually into the team. Felt like that was good management of the situation as it died after that to be fair.

The rest of the players though he has managed them terribly, either giving some of them undroppable state or not giving the others any chances regardless of whatever they do on the pitch.
 

Berbaclass

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The club is paying Marcus a lot to play football. Therefore if they feel his off-field activity is influencing his football (not training properly, not being focused, etc.) then they have every right to address this.

However they need to provide solid evidence to Marcus first that he is indeed not focused. So far I have only seen evidence of us overplaying him. And making such a comment before his return after a longer absence made no sense at all.
Second this needs to be discussed behind closed doors. I was very surprised by Ole’s comments as usually he doesn’t criticise players openly.
He literally played through multiple injuries to his own detriment.
 

united_99

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He literally played through multiple injuries to his own detriment.
I know but this is also something which needs to stop. Rashford, Maguire, Bruno, etc. Especially now we have a big squad we can‘t continue playing injured or unfit players.
 

Longshanks

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The club is paying Marcus a lot to play football. Therefore if they feel his off-field activity is influencing his football (not training properly, not being focused, etc.) then they have every right to address this.

However they need to provide solid evidence to Marcus first that he is indeed not focused. So far I have only seen evidence of us overplaying him. And making such a comment before his return after a longer absence made no sense at all.
Second this needs to be discussed behind closed doors. I was very surprised by Ole’s comments as usually he doesn’t criticise players openly.
If you bother to read the full quote you will find that at no point does Ole question rashfords performances or focus nor does he criticise rashford for his off field campaigns.

Infact it reads more like advice, he basically says that Marcus is coming into his peak years and that now is the time to really focus on his football if he wants to have the very successful football career he could potentially have.
 

red4ever 79

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His man management skills are actually shit. The only player I think he managed properly is Pogba, otherwise he shows zero trust in his sub players and expect them to breathe fire from their mouths when they get thrown random chances. His management of Rashford has been poor as well.

His only man management skill is keeping the players happy. He's uncapable of squeezing more from his players, and uncapable of utilizing his bench options.
Keeping around 13 of the players happy. He cant manage a big squad and make everyone feel part of that.
 

united_99

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If you bother to read the full quote you will find that at no point does Ole question rashfords performances or focus nor does he criticise rashford for his off field campaigns.

Infact it reads more like advice, he basically says that Marcus is coming into his peak years and that now is the time to really focus on his football if he wants to have the very successful football career he could potentially have.
I had read it fully as I was hoping Ole actually hadn‘t said it and his words got twisted.
But he did say it and it doesn‘t matter what else he said.
I mean it is clearly a reference about his off field activity otherwise he could give openly the same advice to our other young players.
Ole usually deals well with such matters (not addressing them in public, but in private) but this was a needless comment.
 

Longshanks

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I had read it fully as I was hoping Ole actually hadn‘t said it and his words got twisted.
But he did say it and it doesn‘t matter what else he said.
I mean it is clearly a reference about his off field activity otherwise he could give openly the same advice to our other young players.
Ole usually deals well with such matters (not addressing them in public, but in private) but this was a needless comment.
Yes it is definitely a reference to his off field activities, but Ole has a job to do and a fully focused fit and firing Marcus rashford will help Ole to do that job and perhaps Ole is slightly worried that the off field activities could take away from his on field performance, perhaps he has seen something in recent months that makes him think he might be getting to involved with his campaigns and in terms of keeping it in house maybe he has already has a word privately but its fallen on deaf ears so he has decided to put a little warning out in public before the situation gets out of hand.

Either way its a storm in a teacup that isn't really worth the time of day worrying about.
 

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Just a matter of time until we see a thread about Ole’s winner in 99 not actually being his.
 

kentafuji

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I think most managers have their favourites, its a natural thing to do. Don't think its anything to bash ole with over any other manager.
 

united_99

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Just a matter of time until we see a thread about Ole’s winner in 99 not actually being his.
:lol:
Yep his man management is good. A lot of armchair managers on the Caf as usual. You don‘t keep a squad happy for 3 years if all you do is smile. And things were hardly always rosy, we had many difficult or disappointing moments/results but he has managed them well without losing the players. There will always be unhappy players like Lingard or VdB, this happens everywhere but they have not harmed squad harmony anyway.
However after 3 years and when the players see that the squad is very good now, they will naturally lose motivation if results don‘t improve immediately. Top 4 will not be enough motivation anymore understandably.
 

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In fairness the players he doesn’t play are almost entirely glued to the bench because they have failed to show up time and again and personally I’d keep them off the pitch as much as possible…

Dalot - Not a legitimate pro footballer imo (I reckon he’s Mourinho’s love child.)

Telles - Liability defensively and nowhere near as good going forward as people claimed and FIFA makes out. Called that when we signed him.

DVB - Not been good enough in almost every single outing. Negative passing, so slow, he’s a 10 and nowhere near as good as Bruno, he’s not a feckin CM.

Martial - Look at last season, say no more.

Who else?
 

red4ever 79

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In fairness the players he doesn’t play are almost entirely glued to the bench because they have failed to show up time and again and personally I’d keep them off the pitch as much as possible…

Dalot - Not a legitimate pro footballer imo (I reckon he’s Mourinho’s love child.)

Telles - Liability defensively and nowhere near as good going forward as people claimed and FIFA makes out. Called that when we signed him.

DVB - Not been good enough in almost every single outing. Negative passing, so slow, he’s a 10 and nowhere near as good as Bruno, he’s not a feckin CM.

Martial - Look at last season, say no more.

Who else?
Ah OK so you are admitting in addition to Ole being clueless when it comes to coaching he is equally clueless when signing players as per above.