Ollie Watkins | Arsenal bid c. £60m

If you take Kane as a barometer, then by your own admission Kane is the better player, who has had much more of a track record scoring 20+ goals over multiple seasons, is the countries captain and leading number 9, and even from a non playing perspective has a much higher profile than Watkins.

So taking that into account, and taking into account Villa might have ongoing PSR issues, im not sure an opening offer of £60M is that insulting, especially when you have people debating on here if they would even offer that?
It's worth saying Kane would have been more to a PL club. £100m + players was rejected from City. £60m isn't insulting, it's just bad planning if he was wanted as it's allowed the Duran deal to sneak up and make it harder to get Watkins. Unfortunately, us United fans recognise the late panic moves all too well and usually the next step is getting shafted to the tune of £70m
 
It's worth saying Kane would have been more to a PL club. £100m + players was rejected from City. £60m isn't insulting, it's just bad planning if he was wanted as it's allowed the Duran deal to sneak up and make it harder to get Watkins. Unfortunately, us United fans recognise the late panic moves all too well and usually the next step is getting shafted to the tune of £70m

I agree, i have already said i worry a bit at the potential cost vs his age. There are 1 or 2 sourced now saying the bid was actually closer to £40M-£45M think that could be bordering on insulting if Villa value him at £80M, but some sources are saying they might deal at £60M, so not sure what to believe.

The only thing i would say about you comment about panic buying, is there is a difference in panic buying when you don't have an established team / style of play in the first place and buying a 30 year old midfielder who hasn't played in the league while trying to still stablish this style of play / identity, vs buying an established forward in the premier league in your 1 area of real weakness.
A better comparison could be when you bought RVP, although Watkins certainly isn't in his class.
 
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I agree, i have already said i worry a bit at the potential cost vs his age. There are 1 or 2 sourced now saying the bid was actually closer to £40M-£45M think that could be bordering on insulting if Villa value him at £80M, but some sources are saying they might deal at £60M, so not sure what to believe.

The only thing i would say about you comment about panic buying, is there is a difference in panic buying when you don't have an established team / style of play in the first place and buying a 30 year old midfielder who hasn't played in the league while trying to still stablish this style of play / identity, vs buying an established forward in the premier league in your 1 area of real weakness.
A better comparison could be when you bought RVP, although Watkins certainly isn't in his class.
We have bought loads of players last minute, Antony, Case, Cavani, Martial, Mata, Falcao etc. it's basically the Woodward hallmark.

I have to assume Watkins is not/was not first choice i.e. as soon as Jesus was injured surely you started planning/calling agents for players of interest given there is clearly money available. For whatever reason it has taken until now to put an offer forwards for Watkins, which seems panicked to me, and the only way Villa sell is if they can absolutely screw you over. He's a good player, I was very much hoping we would sign him when he was leaving Brentford, but unsure about if worth the price mooted for you guys (realistically whoever you sign up top needs to be essentially taking you to the title/CL, I'm not sure it is him although I hope it is as it would mean Pool don't win it).
 
Silly Arsenal, bidding for the wrong player. The guy you want, his name is Marcus Rashford.
 
There is no example I can think of of a player of world record fee calibre that has moved at 29 or even 30. Other than Zidane. So of course that very specific record hasn't been broken.

It ain't a joke fee though I agree. It's a fee Villa probably won't wanna consider though.

That’s… what he’s saying?
 
The reported 60m is an insult.
No it's not it's Dumb money for Decent to good Player who isn't a spring chicken anymore .

Arsenal are lucky in a sense that Aston Villa's obstinance might end up saving them from themselves .
 
No it's not it's Dumb money for Decent to good Player who isn't a spring chicken anymore .

Arsenal are lucky in a sense that Aston Villa's obstinance might end up saving them from themselves .

I agree with this, Aston Villa getting £60m would be amazing for them considering that after this window, I doubt they get offers even half that.
 
No it's not it's Dumb money for Decent to good Player who isn't a spring chicken anymore .

Arsenal are lucky in a sense that Aston Villa's obstinance might end up saving them from themselves .
Considering how much they just got for Duran, I think they will demand another 20 million on top of that.
 
I agree with this, Aston Villa getting £60m would be amazing for them considering that after this window, I doubt they get offers even half that.

Agreed thats why I am bit sceptical even about this Arsenal bid , I don't believe it's actually 60m because Watkins isn't somebody who is gonna propel Arsenal to PL glory factor in his age it just doesn't add up .
 
I agree with this, Aston Villa getting £60m would be amazing for them considering that after this window, I doubt they get offers even half that.

Nonsense. If Villa were to put him in the shop window in the summer for £30m, they'd have bids from half the league before the day was over.
 
That’s… what he’s saying?

Okay so how do you conclude from that that £60m is fair value for Watkins? If the best players generally don't get sold at that age, and you're having to bring up a massive outlying comparison from 20 years back to make the argument, it maybe isn't the best argument?

I think it's a decent offer, if unlikely one that Villa would consider much, but reasoning that it's a fair offer because the last 29 old that went for >£50m was Zidane is just bizarre logic because the best players don't move much at that age, and Watkins isn't anywhere near that level anyway, so why bring up Zidane's fee. Just kinda not relevant, even if the point that players at that age begin to depreciate rapidly in value is true, which it is. Whatever.
 
£55m-£60m is probably a fair offer IMO but it's January... Villa understandably want more given their season is in the balance and they're probably selling their only other CF at the same time; Arsenal somewhat understandably probably willing to pay more given Jesus is out for the season, they're still in a title race and CL knockouts and there's no obvious better alternatives.
 
Okay so how do you conclude from that that £60m is fair value for Watkins? If the best players generally don't get sold at that age, and you're having to bring up a massive outlying comparison from 20 years back to make the argument, it maybe isn't the best argument?

He was arguing *against* someone who said that £60m was a joke of an offer (ie a small offer), saying that very rarely do players of that age go for such an amount.

I’m not sure why you’re all thinking he’s saying the complete opposite to what he actually said :lol:
 
60 million for one of the best strikers in the league, proven 20+ goals a season PL scorer, great link-up play, can make the transition immediately and seems like a nice, normal bloke on top of all that (a rarity in modern football these days...) = absolute bargain.

Lest we forget we paid more for friggin Hojlund...

Not that Villa will sell anyway. So its all mute talk.
 
pretend you’re taking a corner. you look up and see your goon defenders grappling and wrestling people to the ground around the goalkeeper. one of your midfielders has one of the opposition i tears with a vicious chinese burn. the ref looks glances at the opposition captain apologetically and says “what are they like!?” before rolling his eyes and succumbing to the temptation to peel back the cling film on his upper arm and check on the wellbeing of his latest, freshly-inked gunners tattoo.

you draw your foot back and swing with all your might. the ball travels hard and flat. it’s heading slap bang towards the middle of the goal. your strikers have contained the goalkeeper, he is prostrate on the floor, his arms and legs being pinned to the turf. arteta is in the mixer, windmilling his arms around and striking anyone who dares to get close enough to header the ball away. gabriel is halfway up a ladder, whilst rice moves it around to match the ball’s trajectory. var’s finger is hovering over the button, itching to give a penalty. but it is not needed, the ball strikes the now passed out goalkeeper as saka extinguishes the last of his breath with a choke hold to the neck. you go 1-0 up. the linesman climbs on to your back as you both salute your gurning fans, before toppling over in their drool.

but what’s this? 20 years later, your kicks, although the same power, now no longer reach the penalty box. your defenders are rampaging as usual, your manager is playing a banjo and demanding the goalkeeper squeals like a piggy, but all to no avail. your corners have suffered the effects of inflation.
Bb
pretend you’re taking a corner. you look up and see your goon defenders grappling and wrestling people to the ground around the goalkeeper. one of your midfielders has one of the opposition i tears with a vicious chinese burn. the ref looks glances at the opposition captain apologetically and says “what are they like!?” before rolling his eyes and succumbing to the temptation to peel back the cling film on his upper arm and check on the wellbeing of his latest, freshly-inked gunners tattoo.

you draw your foot back and swing with all your might. the ball travels hard and flat. it’s heading slap bang towards the middle of the goal. your strikers have contained the goalkeeper, he is prostrate on the floor, his arms and legs being pinned to the turf. arteta is in the mixer, windmilling his arms around and striking anyone who dares to get close enough to header the ball away. gabriel is halfway up a ladder, whilst rice moves it around to match the ball’s trajectory. var’s finger is hovering over the button, itching to give a penalty. but it is not needed, the ball strikes the now passed out goalkeeper as saka extinguishes the last of his breath with a choke hold to the neck. you go 1-0 up. the linesman climbs on to your back as you both salute your gurning fans, before toppling over in their drool.

but what’s this? 20 years later, your kicks, although the same power, now no longer reach the penalty box. your defenders are rampaging as usual, your manager is playing a banjo and demanding the goalkeeper squeals like a piggy, but all to no avail. your corners have suffered the effects of inflation.
:lol:
 
He was arguing *against* someone who said that £60m was a joke of an offer (ie a small offer), saying that very rarely do players of that age go for such an amount.

I’m not sure why you’re all thinking he’s saying the complete opposite to what he actually said :lol:

Sorry may have misphrased my post. His point was that 29 year old top players don't go for more than Zidane did 20 years ago so Watkins for £60m is a fair deal. My point was that 29 year old top players don't tend to get sold at all, because they're too valuable for the selling club and too expensive for the buying club, amongst other reasons, so there's almost nothing to compare the £60m to. The reason that there is nothing to compare is because it would take a crazy bid to sign them, like it did with Zidane. And using Zidane as a benchmark is also daft because he was way better than Watkins. I don't think £60m was a joke bid but I still think it would take a somewhat crazy bid to sign him, especially since it's January, just obviously not Zidane-crazy as that would equate to a few hundred million with football inflation!
 
Summer. We aren't selling him this window.
The offer might not be there in the summer as Arsenal will likely have more options available.. c£60m for a player entering his 30th year maybe too good an offer for your owners to turn down
 
Summer. We aren't selling him this window.
Yeah selling him now would be mad. What good is 60m anyway if you don’t have time to replace him? That money will still be there in the summer, it makes the most sense that he gets his head down and sees how far you can go in the CL.
 
Sorry may have misphrased my post. His point was that 29 year old top players don't go for more than Zidane did 20 years ago so Watkins for £60m is a fair deal. My point was that 29 year old top players don't tend to get sold at all, because they're too valuable for the selling club and too expensive for the buying club, amongst other reasons, so there's almost nothing to compare the £60m to. The reason that there is nothing to compare is because it would take a crazy bid to sign them, like it did with Zidane. And using Zidane as a benchmark is also daft because he was way better than Watkins. I don't think £60m was a joke bid but I still think it would take a somewhat crazy bid to sign him, especially since it's January, just obviously not Zidane-crazy as that would equate to a few hundred million with football inflation!

I think he’d agree with you that players at that level don’t get sold at all. You’re both saying that £60m is not a bad offer for a player at that age.
 
60 million for one of the best strikers in the league, proven 20+ goals a season PL scorer, great link-up play, can make the transition immediately and seems like a nice, normal bloke on top of all that (a rarity in modern football these days...) = absolute bargain.

Lest we forget we paid more for friggin Hojlund...

Not that Villa will sell anyway. So its all mute talk.

So should we consider paying that in summer?
 
The offer might not be there in the summer as Arsenal will likely have more options available.. c£60m for a player entering his 30th year maybe too good an offer for your owners to turn down
True...but would it be one that is a proven 20 goal scorer in the EPL? I'd sign Watkins at that amount in a heatbeat.
 
One thing we need to bear in mind is how transfers come about. It's normally to think club identify player, club bids for player, offer gets accepted (or rejected), club speaks to player etc. But quite often it's not like that.

Quite often clubs hear things from player agents, even agents working on behalf of clubs, saying a player is unsettled and looking to leave, or perhaps hear whispers the club need to move players on for PSR reasons etc, and then it becomes more of a market opportunity.

The big thing we don't know is where Villa stand financially currently, we do know the sail close to the wind having a very high wages to revenue percentage, and that they were involved in moving young players around last June to help comply to rules. Like all clubs they need to balance books, they moved on the likes of Diaby and Douglas Luiz to allow them to sign the likes of Onana & Maatsen. Maybe Arsenal heard that Villa might need to sell a forward out the 2 for whatever reason, maybe Villa were concerned a deal for Duran might fall through, or maybe Arsenal were just chancing their arm and look a bit foolish now. It's not always black and white though.
 
The offer might not be there in the summer as Arsenal will likely have more options available.. c£60m for a player entering his 30th year maybe too good an offer for your owners to turn down

Other teams will look at him in the summer and offer similar amounts.

We are not selling our two CFs within 48 hours and then just replacing them with support strikers or attacking midfielders.

Was going to say it's like you guys selling Hojlund and Zirzkee in the same week and replacing them with Bruno as false 9....but that would probably improve you with the state you're in upfront. :lol:
 
There's some talk that Villa may need to sell because of PSR. Apparently even the sale of Duran still leaves them around £15m to £35m short.
 
The striker market is very lean right now. Watkins is a good player. Say they sell him to Arsenal, there's no guarantee the striker they bring in adapts this season, or indeed adapts at all, and then they've spoiled this season and need to find a replacement again. No point in selling a player who performs for you, regardless of the fee, unless you really need the money and/or there's as close to a sure bet as you can find out there who you can bring in.
 
One thing we need to bear in mind is how transfers come about. It's normally to think club identify player, club bids for player, offer gets accepted (or rejected), club speaks to player etc. But quite often it's not like that.

Quite often clubs hear things from player agents, even agents working on behalf of clubs, saying a player is unsettled and looking to leave, or perhaps hear whispers the club need to move players on for PSR reasons etc, and then it becomes more of a market opportunity.

The big thing we don't know is where Villa stand financially currently, we do know the sail close to the wind having a very high wages to revenue percentage, and that they were involved in moving young players around last June to help comply to rules. Like all clubs they need to balance books, they moved on the likes of Diaby and Douglas Luiz to allow them to sign the likes of Onana & Maatsen. Maybe Arsenal heard that Villa might need to sell a forward out the 2 for whatever reason, maybe Villa were concerned a deal for Duran might fall through, or maybe Arsenal were just chancing their arm and look a bit foolish now. It's not always black and white though.
Yup

For all the joking about Suarez bid it was Suarez who wanted a move to us which triggered it
 
Other teams will look at him in the summer and offer similar amounts.

We are not selling our two CFs within 48 hours and then just replacing them with support strikers or attacking midfielders.

Was going to say it's like you guys selling Hojlund and Zirzkee in the same week and replacing them with Bruno as false 9....but that would probably improve you with the state you're in upfront. :lol:
I think it’s quite doubtful that Villa get an offer anywhere near £60m for Watkins ever again. Even Arsenal wouldn’t have bid so high if Saka and Jesus weren’t out with long term injuries. I’m a fan of Watkins by the way and would be happy if we signed him. It’s just not financially viable to go much higher.

I agree that it would be a big risk to sell both of your first team strikers, so the deal probably won’t happen. A sale doesn’t make sense for Villa at any price that makes sense for Arsenal.
 
Just wonder if Arsenal go in bigger, they’ve signed Rashy and possibly Jaou Felix that they cash in?

Risky but you never know……they would certainly have a big summer budget
 
Just wonder if Arsenal go in bigger, they’ve signed Rashy and possibly Jaou Felix that they cash in?

Risky but you never know……they would certainly have a big summer budget

Think they've had Duran and Jaden Philogene out, with Rashford, Malen & potentially Joao Felix in, you'd have to imagine that is a big increase in the wage bill for a club that sails pretty close to the wind in terms of PSR. On the pitch I'm not sure where they all play, but it might be a gamble for them worth doing as the rewards for securing a Champions League spot is great. Lets see.
 
In the old days (even as recently as RvP), this is the sort or guy we'd be able to prise away from his club. Today... we might get Luther Blissett