feck sake how reactionary do we want to be tonight
We've got a surplus of pitchforks, need all hands on deck.
Omar Berrada | Man Utd CEO
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We've got a surplus of pitchforks, need all hands on deck.
He was the one pushing for ball carrying #10s and a CF over other signings right? Those were the signings supposed to unlock his system.
In theory the front 3 are excellent signings but they came at the expense of two CMs, maybe a fullback / wingback and a goalkeeper. Any reasonable 4-3-3 manager would've prioritized different profiles and probably not totally isolated Garnacho.
I was against Ruben from the start because of this very reason. I thought, given all the challenges that were existing already, a formation change should have been avoided. But we did go down that route, brought him in and what we are seeing right now isn't a team that just can't get to the highest level because of system. We aren't a functional team because we suck on so many levels. Same as we did under ETH. We have misfits in midfield, all over the place. The core of the team is dysfunctional, even prime Ancelotti or Fergie wouldn't find a solution to challenge on all fronts for.
Yeah, that was mostly was the other poster was indicating as well. And I said, thats maybe just one of multiple reasons. And just fyi - Liverpool bought Kerkez, who would have been perfect as a WB. To act as if their squad would be impossible to play a 3-4-3 with is bonkers. I mean, Liverpool are a very good team - they do have something to lose and if I were them, I wouldn't have taken that risk as well. But it isn't just because that system would be sooo exotic.
He was at City before. And if you like them or not, they made an awful lot of good decisions from a certain point onwards.
He had nothing to do with the football structure plus how many managers did they hire in his time there? Begirstain was in charge of manager appointments and transfers. So why is he hiring managers here?
He wasn't in charge of footballing decisions.
Why did Ratcliffe decide Berrada is better judged to make football decisions over Ashworth?
He's blown it and we've made the same mistake 2 summers in a row. Ignoring obvious signs the manager isn't good enough and needs replacing.
I didn't like Ashworth's list of candidates to succeed ETH, but there's no doubt it would have been better than Amorim's been thus far.
The reality is fixing Utd was and is too big a job for any one CEO, Director of Football and Manager. Amorim is already as good as gone, Wilcox and Berrada will come under scrutiny if the next appointment isn’t a big improvement and if some of the signings don’t work out.
I’m assuming SJR had the final say on appointing Amorim and when he’ll be sacked. That is probably where our biggest issue lies now.
I’m assuming SJR had the final say on appointing Amorim and when he’ll be sacked. That is probably where our biggest issue lies now.
I don't know mate. I know, there is a video about City, where Berrarda is involved in talks about footballers and their contracts. So I think, he wasn't uninvolved as absolutely as you say. Should he be the shot caller for our football operations - no he shouldn't, I agree. But it wasn't just Berrarda iirc. It was also Wilcox. Don't get me wrong, I am not standing here trying to say, everything is great. But lets also not start just throwing feacies around just because we are so disappointed. Changing the organisational structure was always expected to hit a few bumps here and there.
Same mistake two summers on the bounce.
Feck off.
Feck off.
Contracts mate. That’s hardly deciding who their next manager is. Begirstain was in charge of the whole footballing operation and Berreda only got the job because of him. He just dealt with the financial side of stuff like contracts and how much they are going to pay for a transfer. They didn’t have him choosing managers or players.
Again no manager in their right mind that would play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 would've said, yes find me a whole new front 3, that's the most important thing for this squad right now, I'll play Bruno at CM and Amad out of position and drop Garnacho entirely.
They were signed because the excuse was that Amorim's system needed these ball carrying #10s and a CF that can link play up well.
We were always losing Rashford, Sancho and Antony as they aren't good enough and/or their attitude is terrible.
Hojlund and Zirkzee are not good enough.
This was always going to be the case no matter the manager or the formation.
A wide attacker and centre forward were a must no matter the manager. However we maybe could have persisted with Garnacho for longer and just signed 2 attackers instead of 3. Three attacking signings may be overkill given the other weaknesses we have in the squad and our limited funds.
Bruno, Garnacho, Amad and Hojlund was a servicable front 4 for a top six / 7 type squad. Maybe a single attacking signing like Cunha would've injected some quality into it. There was absolutely no need to go and sign Sesko and Mbeumo. There was also no need to buy this argument that our best player is going to be played out of position in CM because of "his system".
They were signed because Amorim said my #10s have to be able to receive under pressure, turn and carry. My CF has to have WC hold up play or my whole system doesn't function.
Any normal coach I'm convinced we sign two CMs, a GK and a Cunha.
Have you watched our attack for the last two seasons?
We've been 16th for goals scored last season and 8th in goals scored the season before.
How you could be happy going into the season with the same attack? That's truly baffling.
Even if we were to delude ourselves that Garncho-Hojlund-Amad is a good enough starting front 3, there's absolutely no depth behind them after Rashford, Sancho and Antony gone.
Again this is the reason we're in this mess. Attack is bad so I'll get better attackers is not the right way to think about it. Sometimes adding a Rodri (or taking him out) causes the entire team to get better or get worse.
Why is the attack bad? Is it really down to the individuals? Is the system putting them in areas where they can perform? Can we progress the ball well? Can we stop counter attacks? Can we press well resulting in turn overs and shots? The stats said we were dogshit at pressing, our xT was bad, we lost the ball more than basically every single side except one in dangerous areas.
Without doing any of these things well, getting attackers isn't going to do anything.
Right right right. So deciding where to use the budget has absolutely nothing to do with deciding who the players are.
Lets leave it at that. I get that you are mad at him, thats fine, I kind of get it. But I think you are overplaying the "he choose the manager". We don't know that since its interna. All we know is that there seems to be a tussle between Ashworth and Berrarda but we don't know whether it was just Berrarda or also others. And if the names have been reported correctly, I wouldn't have been swayed by Ashworths ideas as well. Amorim was a bold decision, maybe a little too over eager, but I don't think any of the decisions had looked differently under another manager. We would have needed another LB, we would have needed replacements for Rash and Sancho, probably Hojlund as well, certainly Onana and Bayindir. About midfield we don't even need to start. If Amorim would have been adamant for us to go out and spent 300 million just on Hakimi and Nuno Mendes to sort out the WB positions, I'd get the outcry, thats a lot of money for player profiles that are on the rarer side but also of the highest quality. But we didn't do that.2 seasons in a fecking row where everyone can see the manager should be sacked but the fecking best in class football people have no clue at all.
ETH should be sacked by finishing 8th with fecking awful football. Amorim somehow make us finished 15th with even worse football. These are not acceptable standard for Man Utd and why he was not sacked?
Is bloody Ed still in charge?!
Spurs sacked Ange who won them a European Cup in 30 years and play much better football than us.
ETH should be sacked by finishing 8th with fecking awful football. Amorim somehow make us finished 15th with even worse football. These are not acceptable standard for Man Utd and why he was not sacked?
Is bloody Ed still in charge?!
Spurs sacked Ange who won them a European Cup in 30 years and play much better football than us.
I think there are two separate discussion points here.
1) in terms of priorities, I completely agree that it was a bad idea to focus all of our resources on attackers first, given that we had major needs at basically every position apart from center back (not that center back is great, just that it’s not a huge weakness).
2) how the players we’ve signed will fit different systems. Amorim could resign tomorrow, and we could bring in a 4-3-3 manager to replace him, and I think that manager could likely find all 3 signings useful. Mbeumo has been a rwf in a 4-3-3, and sesko is pretty much exclusively a center forward. Cunha’s fit in a 4-3-3 is a little less clear, but he’s played in multiple attacking positions during his career, and should be able to contribute at cf, lwf, and cam.
To the extent that our problems are down to personnel issues and not Amorim’s system, I think not bringing in a central midfielder and playing Bruno out of place there are two of the biggest mistakes/issues with the squad. Spending so much is also going to crush us if we don’t qualify for Europe, which is already looking grim. However, I don’t think we’ve painted ourselves into a corner by signing expensive players who the next manager will have problems making use of.
And I thought it won't be possible to get someone worse than Woodward and Arnold.
He is a spoofer, a classic snake oil salesman. Has no clue what he is doing.
I don’t think it is too much for a small group.
The issue is Berrada picked a manger that is massively inflexible and wants to persist with his ways until the end.
He ideally wants to throw the majority of the team away and have players that are well suited to his way of playing. Regardless of the results. And at United you can “suffer” for too long. We need to see signs of progress.
It can’t work like that at United. Players are on long term deals and many have underperformed for years so have no sell on value.
He is lucky the club have allowed him to put the bomb squad in the bin. Most clubs would say to get a tune out of them.
Berrada made the mistake of chasing an ideologue. Next manager needs to be far more adaptable.
Great post.
As a team when you can't build up against the press and also can't defend transitions in higher line, you're basically fecked in the longterm as far as the system is concerned. The solution here is to raise the levels at both CB and deeper midfield positions which then has the potential to connect and knit things together. The answer here was never to throw the kitchen sink at signing more and more final third players but rather making the process from back to front alot more smoother which would allow us to commit more players forward in a higher line.
I keep saying we're not that far from having a really good team but then we go ahead and sign the wrong profile of players which sets us back further. And I'll say it again, if the club learn from their mistakes and brings in a couple of midfielders and a CB with the pace, athleticism and technical abilities, it will have a galvanising effect on the team.
As far as Berrarda is concerned. It's not that he made a mistake in appointing Amorim but rather his role as the CEO should mean that he shouldn't be the one making footballing appointments with a DoF in charge. It's also concerning that he undermined Dan Ashworth who should've been the one making the calls as far as who is hired to make up a structure that he (Ashworth) will lead. Wilcox has gone from working at Radio Lancashire to getting a job straight at City, where he was first made a youth coach and then rose through the ranks as a academy director. And this happened because Brian Marwood who was the DoF at the time at City, knew Wilcox from their playing days and both men were close friends.
But having said that, I don't believe it's a tough job implementing a system of play. You just need to apply some common sense when recruiting for players. So for me it doesn't matter how experienced you're as a DoF, but rather it's about the vision you have as far as implementing a system of play and signing players who fit that vision both with and without the ball in a league that demands physicality, athleticism and technical ability, especially when it comes to the CB and deeper midfield positions.
If he was involved/pushing for Amorim, then he made a mistake. That's fine, I don't care anymore but he must act now and be working on the next manager. It's time to act like a big club and make decisive choices.
I truly don't think he should have any say in football decisions going forward.
Colossal mistakes like this can't just be brushed aside. Especially if you double down on them(by not sacking him after last season).
Colossal mistakes like this can't just be brushed aside. Especially if you double down on them(by not sacking him after last season).
To me the signings do fit perfectly to that, I guess only problem comes is Amad and Mbeumo are competing for 1 position
Agree. Not investing in central midfield was criminal.
I like Mbeumo, but when you have a couple of players that could play that position, and not have to move Bruno back into the 6, where is he negated from an attacking point of view, as well as prone to making defensive mistake, it makes you think we invested in area where we already has solutions. Even if they were not perfect.
The talk of, "oh, we will just insert the 35 goals that Mbeumo and Cunha scored last year into MUFC and we will be fine" was obviously not founded in reality.
Not sure if this is a Berrada issue. But maybe there was some accountancy going on because they knew they could not move on Ugarte or Casemiro.
Central midfield defines how your team plays to a large extent. Were absolute idiots for ignoring it. Add two midfielders who can actually pass the damn ball and understand the position and it would change a lot. That and GK was fundamental.
Totally agree. Cliched, but its not called the engine room for morning. And we have no legs or strength in there with Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo.
The most important thing he can do right now is to torpedo the Garnacho deal.
I can't think of a winning team without proper midfielders in the last 20 years besides arguably Klopps liverpool with Wijnaldum and Fabinho. You can have an average defense or attack but must have a top midfield. Every great team has world-class midfielders, it's the balance of the team.
Its shocking we've ignored it for years, since the Fred-McTominay partnership it's been complete awful.
On top of that we've spent terribly on midfield players, an aging Casemiro for top money, £50M on Ugarte who everyone knew was a donkey on the ball, it's like an inside job. You can't hardly do it worse.
Ratcliffe sales pitch was to get all the best in class people in football for rebuild. Fast forward now, where is the best in class?
Berrada first time being CEO. Wilcox only a few months prior experience as DOF. Who is our Technical Director now? The actual person with decent experience as DOF was sacked a few months into his job.
Even the manager, Amorim is best in class? We should never go for a manager who need a total rebuild and new 11 to play his style of play. Surely this is basic football 101?
Berrada first time being CEO. Wilcox only a few months prior experience as DOF. Who is our Technical Director now? The actual person with decent experience as DOF was sacked a few months into his job.
Even the manager, Amorim is best in class? We should never go for a manager who need a total rebuild and new 11 to play his style of play. Surely this is basic football 101?
It goes deeper than the personnel. Because the midfield out there are more than good enough to dispatch Grimsby town.
The bigger problem is how Amorim runs his build up. He doesn't really have many ideas for creating overloads and carefully progressing up the pitch from goalkicks. He didn't have them at Sporting and he didnt really adapt his ideas and come up with some at United. Plan A is to work it wide, go long and use the quality advantage to win the duel.
Blaming the midfield is valid but it's also important to recognize how the coach is failing here.
More importantly, to bring it back to this thread, I lost all faith that our new leadership really understands these details to any extent. For them this is just a shiny new toy syndrome. This guy didn't work so let's get someone else (Iraola, McKenna, Glasner, Southgate, whatever).
Until we have someone who understands these nuances, we don't improve.
I won't use the Grimsby game as any sort of example as it doesn't matter the formation or the players used. Any Manchester United squad should comfortably beat any 4th tier side, no matter the formation or tactics. This disaster is 100% on the players.
But I do agree setting the midfield with only 2 players makes it easier for the opposition to crowd us and run us through. Specially if those two players don't have the legs and quality to do it.
I've never had faith in the ineos leadership, everyone knew they're inept. They've proven it with Nice. That Radcliffe rat really doomed us by giving the Glazers the chance to keep the team.
Berrada is going all in on Amorim, they've sacked ten Hag, sacked Ashworth because he didn't wanted Amorim, after the disaster of last season they've backed the manager with over 200M on new players. They won't sack Amorim with only 3 games on the season. They would look inept, they have no other choice but to persist with him.
I do think Amorim will offer his resignation, his after match interview was clear as water. He basically said the players don't believe in him or want him out. I think it's over but because Amorim will walk and honestly I would do the same of I were in his shoes. We're such a mess and a black hole that every single promising manager we've taken has failed that Amorim can still walk away and have that free pass card, of course no top teams will touch him but he'll get another chance at a decent team to prove himself.
It’s not just about world class but also functionality. That midfield of Liverpools wasn’t top notch but very good and importantly, well suited to modern PL football - with Fabinho’s defensive qualities, physicality and good distribution, and Wijnaldum’s ball carrying qualifies.
We’ve got a mishmash of players with varying skillsets but nobody you’d say is a top 4 central midfielder. How we entered a season with dino Casemiro and Bruno are midfield just shows how little importance we give this area of the pitch. Mainoo is the only CM we have who you look at who can become a top 4 team CM, but he needs to develop his game.
He was a marketing guy at City no? So yeah, snake oil salesman makes sense.
INEOS are as f@ckijng clueless as the Glazers. We’re ruderless.
Of course they can and they are top players. Some fans are just daft. Question is when do we pull the plug and who is next
I mean based on our league positions since they've started compared to the seasons before they've got some going to be just 'as fecking clueless'. We're some orders of magnitude worse.
The very last thing this team needed was a coach with an unconventional system from an inferior league. At least Ashworth understood this and was willing to die on that hill and did.
Amorims system hasn't come close to liftoff at any point in England. It always seems to perform worst just when it looks like it should take a step. Lost 1/0 to Arsenal but played good. Then a draw with Fulham. This Grimsby game and Burnley game was supposed to be the liftoff and it was a complete wipeout. Again. Anyone blaming "the players" doesn't seem to have a clue how pro sports work and how competitive you have to be there just to be on the bench. Nevermind as a starting player.
If Jim Ratcliffe is making ANY personnel decisions in football or even having to sign off on them, then there's no hope. The man is the epitome of arrogance.