Because it's not a big difference recruiting for a back 3 or 4?Everyone knew that Wilcox prefers a back 4 formation so why did these idiots then appoint a manager who has only ever used a back 3?
They should all be on the same page when it comes to appointing managers.
By not signing the players they want? How hard is it to understand? You get a manager who has specific requirements for positions in his formation and all you do is sign a 20 year old for the LWB and 3 attackers (again a young unproven striker). This is fully backing to you?They don't fully back the managers how?
So, you need results and performances first in order to earn backing? He got like 4 players and you expect him to do what exactly? We are where we are on the table - within touching distance of European spots.Don't you know that backing the manager means letting them say whatever the hell they want and ignoring results and performances.
By not signing the players they want? How hard is it to understand? You get a manager who has specific requirements for positions in his formation and all you do is sign a 20 year old for the LWB and 3 attackers (again a young unproven striker). This is fully backing to you?
Oh please, stop it. Amorim was an absolute disaster, by a number of metrics he's one of the worst PL managers, not just for us. Two things can be true. The football management team, starting with Ratcliffe, can be poor and have made a series of really poor decisions. At the same time, Amorim has shown he lacks many of the basics to be a top coach with his utter failure to adapt. He's been angling for an out for a while now.So, you need results and performances first in order to earn backing? He got like 4 players and you expect him to do what exactly? We are where we are on the table - within touching distance of European spots.
And its about time someone calls out this moronic board.
So, you need results and performances first in order to earn backing? He got like 4 players and you expect him to do what exactly? We are where we are on the table - within touching distance of European spots.
And its about time someone calls out this moronic board.
He should have been sacked before even getting those players in the summer. Anywhere else at a big club and he would have been gone back in May. The board absolutely have been questioning but their failing have been in not acting much sooner, just like they should have sacked ETH and yet they gave him another window and 6 months.So, you need results and performances first in order to earn backing? He got like 4 players and you expect him to do what exactly? We are where we are on the table - within touching distance of European spots.
And its about time someone calls out this moronic board.
I never said Amorim holds no responsibility but i also don’t think he got a fair chance under this board.I dunno, maybe not oversee the worst league performance for 40+ years. Maybe not too look inept with your in game decision making, to not publicly criticise the team and players your supposed to be motivating and maybe to not pick a public fight with the very same people that were backing you despite the aforementioned issues.
I'm not saying the board are perfect, but in what world is Amorim in the right? At what other club would he have lasted even this long?
Exactly! He needed to go after the EL final. But if you keep him, you better sign players. He needed midfielders and wingbacks. Also an experienced striker. He got none. Hence my argument. Amorim has his fair share of blame as well but you can’t decide to keep him in the job and not sign the players needed for his complicated system.He should have been sacked before even getting those players in the summer. Anywhere else at a big club and he would have been gone back in May. The board absolutely have been questioning but their failing have been in not acting much sooner, just like they should have sacked ETH and yet they gave him another window and 6 months.
If I was Ratcliff I would fire all of Berrada and Wilcox, and whoever else was involved in the ETH and Amoring 2 year disaster period.
…….And it’s about time someone calls out this moronic board.
I never said Amorim holds no responsibility but i also don’t think he got a fair chance under this board………
I don't think we fire Omar at all, or Wilcox personally.Exactly! He needed to go after the EL final. But if you keep him, you better sign players. He needed midfielders and wingbacks. Also an experienced striker. He got none. Hence my argument. Amorim has his fair share of blame as well but you can’t decide to keep him in the job and not sign the players needed for his complicated system.
Its like saying we wont sign midfielders for Enrique, make do with Casemiro and Bruno.
And thats why I said that a manager who needs a squad revamp can’t work under this leadership. Because they cant do it.Oh please, stop it. Amorim was an absolute disaster, by a number of metrics he's one of the worst PL managers, not just for us. Two things can be true. The football management team, starting with Ratcliffe, can be poor and have made a series of really poor decisions. At the same time, Amorim has shown he lacks many of the basics to be a top coach with his utter failure to adapt. He's been angling for an out for a while now.
He personally wanted Bruno to stay and employed him in CM despite the obvious lack of reason behind it. And in what planet was he going to get all the needed players in 2 windows? He obviously was on board with whoever decided that going for both Cunha and Mbeumo was the best path while still keeping Bruno. And him wanting experienced striker, would have helped the club by not being absolute shit last year and getting CL. So not sure what are you trying to defend. He was practically digging his own grave, nobody but himself to blame.Exactly! He needed to go after the EL final. But if you keep him, you better sign players. He needed midfielders and wingbacks. Also an experienced striker. He got none. Hence my argument. Amorim has his fair share of blame as well but you can’t decide to keep him in the job and not sign the players needed for his complicated system.
Its like saying we wont sign midfielders for Enrique, make do with Casemiro and Bruno.
He and Willcox have been playing or working at our rivals. What in the name of hell made us hire these clowns? Only an incompetent buffoon like Ratcliffe and the Glazers could do this and sell it to us as "best in class". What happened to "the United way"? Are these the people who our owners think will bring it back to the club?He is a City agent or incompetent. Either way, he should be sacked as well
I’m trying to defend his retaliation against the non activity for the January window. A wingback and a midfielder would have boosted the team’s chances for Europe. 7 players in 3 windows is not too much to ask for.He personally wanted Bruno to stay and employed him in CM despite the obvious lack of reason behind it. And in what planet was he going to get all the needed players in 2 windows? He obviously was on board with whoever decided that going for both Cunha and Mbeumo was the best path while still keeping Bruno. And him wanting experienced striker, would have helped the club by not being absolute shit last year and getting CL. So not sure what are you trying to defend. He was practically digging his own grave, nobody but himself to blame.
I’m trying to defend his retaliation against the non activity for the January window. A wingback and a midfielder would have boosted the team’s chances for Europe. 7 players in 3 windows is not too much to ask for.
We were led to believe that not only was he a strong supporter, but that he more or less appointed him head coach by taking on the DoF role himself.
What I find curious about this, is whether as a City guy and with the City links to Amorim, this was already in his head before going from a commercial man with no football authority at City to the CEO of the biggest club in the land.
I'm sure there's some truth in this account, but also a lot of untruth. For instance, we have actually dramatically improved our use of data, that's why they brought that Sansoni guy in.One would guess that he's an opportunist who read the room and saw that the environment in the office is a mess (too many different opinions) and the shot-caller is as fickle as it gets. Hardly surprising at this level of management, whether it's corporation stuff or politics.
The way i see it, Ashworth's big mistake was his advice to keep ETH when the underlying metrics were suggesting that United had become significantly worse during his tenure. Berrada was the one who advocated for change and put Amorim's name on the table. Both Ashworth and Wilcox were vehemently against this appointment (for good reasons, as it proved) and, in the end, SJR sided with them. When things weren't going well and the boss decided to sack ETH, Ashworth proposed using external data companies for evaluations regarding the next appointments (while also giving four names that in his opinion would be a safer approach), something that Liverpool did with Slot. SJR apparently told him to feck off with his data and that "the boys" should be able to make these decisions on their own. The same SJR who had put on his smug face in his first interviews to tell us that, under his guidance, United will be modernized by using all available metrics to help us make the right calls and finally enter the 21st century. That was supposedly when Berrada saw his opportunity to become "the man".
It's a freaking circus, if you ask me.
One would guess that he's an opportunist who read the room and saw that the environment in the office is a mess (too many different opinions) and the shot-caller is as fickle as it gets. Hardly surprising at this level of management, whether it's corporation stuff or politics.
The way i see it, Ashworth's big mistake was his advice to keep ETH when the underlying metrics were suggesting that United had become significantly worse during his tenure. Berrada was the one who advocated for change and put Amorim's name on the table. Both Ashworth and Wilcox were vehemently against this appointment (for good reasons, as it proved) and, in the end, SJR sided with them. When things weren't going well and the boss decided to sack ETH, Ashworth proposed using external data companies for evaluations regarding the next appointments (while also giving four names that in his opinion would be a safer approach), something that Liverpool did with Slot. SJR apparently told him to feck off with his data and that "the boys" should be able to make these decisions on their own. The same SJR who had put on his smug face in his first interviews to tell us that, under his guidance, United will be modernized by using all available metrics to help us make the right calls and finally enter the 21st century. That was supposedly when Berrada saw his opportunity to become "the man".
It's a freaking circus, if you ask me.
Fans want Glazers gone.What are these rumoured protests about?
I feel like these are some of the things that make upper management scared to act and/or self-serving
I can see these guys making a bunch of other decisions to acquiesce to the public/based on “what the fans want” rather than what’s probably best for the club
I'm sure there's some truth in this account, but also a lot of untruth. For instance, we have actually dramatically improved our use of data, that's why they brought that Sansoni guy in.
It can take time to get these things off the ground though, and even with you have the data you need to figure out how to use it properly and apply it to your specific needs. That's why club's like Brighton and Brentford were so successful for a time, they had their own companies doing it for them. The rest of the league has started to catch up though and cut some of that advantage down.
It was still very much in it's infancy when EtH was sacked, so it's not surprising Ashworth recommended using external data. That's probably what we were using anyway. Probably still are buying it externally, but actually have a system set up specifically for the club to exploit it better now.
I agree with you - it is a lot but i think a little context does act as a bit of a mitigator for Amorim. He took over a team whose attack contained all of: Sancho, Rashford, Garnacho, Antony and Hojlund. Which makes his appointment even more mindboggling, as he barely played with natural wingers in his system.That statement is only correct if you aren't asking for expensive players but upward of 300m in 3 windows is a lot to ask for, especially when the window calculation includes winter windows which only hides the fact that we are talking about 300 plus millions in 14 months. Truth be told in most places 300m over 3 years would be a lot.
Fans want Glazers gone.
Not sure who you thought we should sign but they gave him Cunha who he’d been cosying up to for months, Mbeumo one of the better wide players in the league, a promising young forward in Sesko, plus he had Ugarte who he’d worked with in Portugal before, a promising new goalkeeper and he had players like DeLigt, Maz, Casemiro, Bruno etcI never said Amorim holds no responsibility but i also don’t think he got a fair chance under this board.
And with backing I meant it in a financial sense. Just keeping him in the job without signing important players is no backing. imo obviously.
Not sure who you thought we should sign but they gave him Cunha who he’d been cosying up to for months, Mbeumo one of the better wide players in the league, a promising young forward in Sesko, plus he had Ugarte who he’d worked with in Portugal before, a promising new goalkeeper and he had players like DeLigt, Maz, Casemiro, Bruno etc
He had enough to show better results than he produced
Yeah he was backed. What do people expect, that the whole first team is changed to 11 perfect players and an abundant bench? Where’s his ability to coach what he had?Plus Dorgu and Heaven. Within 10 months the club spent 280m€ and brought 6 players.
Exactly! He needed to go after the EL final. But if you keep him, you better sign players. He needed midfielders and wingbacks. Also an experienced striker. He got none. Hence my argument. Amorim has his fair share of blame as well but you can’t decide to keep him in the job and not sign the players needed for his complicated system.
Its like saying we wont sign midfielders for Enrique, make do with Casemiro and Bruno.
Yeah he was backed. What do people expect, that the whole first team is changed to 11 perfect players and an abundant bench? Where’s his ability to coach what he had?
Can't help but think this might make those "top managers" a little antsy about coming to Utd (assuming they aren't already antsy after watching the last 10 years).It was reported that SJR was furious when Ashworth made that suggestion. He was irritated by the suggestion to use data to appoint the manager.
It's true that we have invested in the data department, but in order for that to work, the people who'll use that data must try to be objective instead of pushing personal agendas. We still buy players because certain people believe in their specific profiles, we still make purchases that a everyone and their dog can tell you they're bad, and we still pay premium fees for good players who are far from world-beaters. Some times, when the stars align, we get it right.
We ended up with a manager that the DoF and the Head of Recruitment didn't believe in, and 14 months later we look astonished that it all went to shite. And amidst all the things he got terribly wrong, we overlook the new low that a manager, for the first time, actually forced his way out.
Man Utd has 1.1 billion fans (so says google). Sale price is $8 billion. Piece of cake! 7.5 billion per fan and the problem is solved!Fans want Glazers gone.
Man Utd has 1.1 billion fans (so says google). Sale price is $8 billion. Piece of cake! 7.5 billion per fan and the problem is solved!
By not signing the players they want? How hard is it to understand? You get a manager who has specific requirements for positions in his formation and all you do is sign a 20 year old for the LWB and 3 attackers (again a young unproven striker). This is fully backing to you?
I don't think we fire Omar at all, or Wilcox personally.
I think Wilcox could go back to his Technical Director role that he was hired for, and we get a really top Sporting Director.
