Only Fools and Horses QF - 2mufc/gio vs EAP

[Šjor Bepo]

vs

Team 2mufc/gio

DEFENCE
Sol Campbell, two-time team of the tournament at WC 02 and Euro 04, 3-time PL team of the year, forms a natural stopper/sweeper partnership with Alan Hansen, 6-time PL team of the year and 3-time EC winner. Best of British at right-back Danny McGrain offers more defensive solidity and iron-lung flank support for Bestie ahead of him. We make a minor upgrade at left-back as Danny Rose makes way for Paulo Maldini.

MIDFIELD
The midfield has all the hallmarks of a classic British and Irish 4-4-2 here. Ryan Giggs takes his spot in front of Maldini in an indomitable left flank. Inside we pair Spurs midfield general Dave Mackay with Rangers legend and arguably greatest ever player Jim Baxter. Famously the partnership overturned Ramsey's England 2-1 at Wembley despite playing with 10 men for 85 minutes in 1963, with Baxter scoring both goals and bossing the midfield. Mackay's main task will be to keep tabs on Platini, having quelled the great Eusebio in the 1962 European Cup Semi-Final. Both players will fizz the ball forwards early for the wingers and forwards to hit space. Forming a vintage United flank partnership opposite Giggs is the maverick George Best who will relish the freedom to tear it up.

ATTACK
Thierry Henry forms a Bergkamp-esque partnership with Barcelona and Real legend Michael Laudrup who should be in his element enjoying play-stretching passing options around him. Service will be zipped into their feet and both can work central and wide areas with equal comfort.


Team Edgar

Tactics: 4-2-3-1

Tactics: Solid defensively and provide a platform for Platini to shine.

Defence:

+ GOAT GK in Van Der Sar
+ Proven complementary central defensive duo in Terry / Carvalho.
+ Evra and Cohen well suited to provide width and have operated in teams without traditional/good wide players.
+ Monster DM's in Desailly and Edwards.

Offence:

+ Great platform for Platini and surrounded by talent who can enhance his game.
+ Dynamic Edwards in a box-to-box role will support Mata and Cohen in flanks.
+ Litti / Mata out wide. Both have played in respective positions. Different types of players, but both are highly creative and will provide lots of opportunities for Kempes.
+ Well rounded CF in Kempes whose pace and movement will gel well with the rest of attack. Lethal in front of goal himself, he can score and create for others.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@2mufc0 @Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow good luck

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Gio @2mufc0 team on paper looks spectacular but i dont think its as good as it looks. Best is at his best in a free roaming role, to do so another winger should be comfortable on the right and more importantly there should be one striker that will do the dirty work of the ball(not just defensive wise). Also dont think Laudrup would do that great in a classic british 442, would probably be good but nowhere near his peak.

@Edgar Allan Pillow Mata will naturally drift inside, who you expect to offer something from the right? Kempes or Cohen or Edwards? I guess Kempes?

 

[Himannv]

I feel Mata might actually be a great fit in a Carre Magique. He's nice and creative, but will also be happy to not be the main man. I suppose he doesn't help Cohen out enough defensively? Littbarski instead maybe?

 

[Gio]

JIM BAXTER - JUST HOW GOOD WAS HE?

​

The injury to Modric opens up the opportunity for Jim Baxter to strut his stuff. Many Rangers fans regard him as their greatest ever player. In a lot of ways he was similar to Fernando Redondo as an expansive and gifted left-half. He had the close control and frame to hold off opposition midfielders and always looked comfortable in possession. You can cut his career in half. Before his leg break up to 1965, and the diluted and somewhat drunken version thereafter. Up to that point Rangers were the top team in Scotland and it's no surprise that Celtic took a stranglehold of the Scottish game straight after his injury. In that 4-year period between 1961 and 1965, Baxter won 10 trophies:

• 3 league titles
• 3 Scottish Cups
• 4 Scottish League Cups
• Runner up in the 1961 European Cup Winners Cup
• 13th in the 1965 Ballon D'Or
• Part of that stacked Rest of the World team that played against England in 1963

1.20 - Look at the 70-yard ball from the left-half position through the lines to the right winger (Willie Henderson) on a quagmire of a pitch. The only other player in that era who had the range and technique to pull off those sorts of raking passes was Bobby Charlton. Imagine Best, Henry, Laudrup and Giggs racing onto that delivery from deep areas.

HOW IS HIS PARTNERSHIP WITH MACKAY?​

For what it's worth Bestie - in charge of selection here - picked both as the two central midfielders in his perfect XI.

Jim Baxter
The fact that Jim Baxter is remembered mostly for humiliating England at Wembley in '67 helped with his selection. He was even more of a showman than me, which is saying something – and perhaps why I got on with him so well! So skilful, a real genius. Whenever we played against each other, we would try to outdo one another.

Dave Mackay
Now he did kick me a few times! Probably the hardest player I ever played against. When he broke his leg, he got up as if it was a slight knock. Also an extraordinarily good footballer. Covered the ground superbly and could pass as well as anybody. A key player in Spurs' great Double-winning side and also won the League with Derby some years later.

But perhaps most famously was when Mackay and Baxter were the central midfield partnership as Scotland defeated England 2-1 in 1963 at Wembley - despite going down to 10 men after 5 minutes. Baxter showed a lot of good off-the-ball work in the absence of the left-back Eric Caldow. Not a problem here with Maldini behind him, but a good two-way defensive mindset evident nevertheless. And on the ball, Baxter was in complete command, scoring twice.

​

The victories seemed to be very Scottish victories. Instead of saying: 'Let's score a lot of goals', we said: 'Let's show them who can really play'."

I had heard some people describe Jim Baxter as "an idol with feet of clay".

But they were not made of clay.

They were made of pure gold and the left was probably inlaid with diamonds, although the rest was definitely clay.

I was fortunate to play in an era, not of good players – but great ones. Celtic had so many fine performers in their nine-in-a-row team of the time but Jim was the best Scottish player ever. He was a magician.

Midfielders: Johan Cruyff & Jim Baxter

I've gone for pure class in midfield. Johan Cruyff was out of this world.

And I had the pleasure of playing in the same team as Jim Baxter. When he was at his fittest he was as good a midfield player as there has ever been. Who else could play keepy-uppy at Wembley? The confidence oozed from him.

Right-wing: George Best

I don't know if the words are in the dictionary to describe how good George was. I don't believe he knew how good he was. He was a really nice guy. He is up beside Pele and Eusebio as the greatest player of all time. He was a genius, absolutely wonderful.

I wish he had been Brazilian

Nice Four Four Two article here:

But reducing him to his medals misses the point. Baxter was entertainment and flair. He was mischief. The greatest compliment he’s due today is the observation that his style hasn’t aged. In most cases, footballers are prisoners of their own era. That’s particularly true prior to the 1970s, before which the heavy balls, thick boots and boggy pitches often conspired to reduce players, obscuring their true technical merits.

Not Baxter, though. Not with those touches, those turns and all that elegance. He could tease with the ball, twisting defenders into a knot. Or he could rake it forty yards, dropping it on any blade of grass. Almost all of the first-hand accounts describe a uniquely flippant person, completely unaffected by the game’s pressure, and that seems evident in the way he played. A football match has its own rhythm. Baxter, like all great players do, played at his own.

Never more so than against England. Baxter won 34 caps for Scotland, but three of them stand above the rest.

The first was the win over England in 1962, in a 2-0 revenge for the 9-3 humbling suffered the year before. In Baxter’s obituary in the Independent, the politician Tam Dalyell called the win "miraculous" and, identifying his subject as its source, referred to Baxter as "sublimely skilful".

A year later, this time at Wembley, he was part of an even more unlikely 2-1 win – the second tenet of his legacy. The Press Association aren’t known for breathless flair in their reporting, but they were captivated.

“…the new-born riot of self-expression that bubbled freely from Baxter, (Dave) Mackay, (John) White and (Denis) Law, the all-important quadrilateral that formed the heart of the Scottish effort."

But perhaps the performance which really retains its gleam comes – ironically – from the shadow of Baxter’s own decline...

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/jim-baxter-remembering-an-immortal-of-scottish-football

And if you're really keen, here's a 1-hour documentary on the great man:

​

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think my midfield is just way too good and gives me a big advantage in this match...esp against a 2 man middle my opponent is fielding.

..................Michel Platini..................
....Marcel Desailly.....Duncan Edwards

Is both individually and collectively better than Mackay/Baxter, no matter how much Gio fluffs them up. They are good players no doubt, but not really in my weight class. Add in Mata and Litti who are both flexible cutting in too and I have an overwhelming advantage through the middle.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tbh, I was expecting something else from Gio. The only difference from R1 seems to be Laudrup is classed as SS rather than #10. I'm pretty sure the way Laudrup/Best/Giggs would play would be exactly similar to R1 except on paper. But anyway, since Sjor is OK, I suppose it's OK.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Plus Dean Henderson vs Van Der Sar!

I've lost games due to GK alone, so probably this should go in my favor!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

yap, they pretty much picked their own sheep(Henderson was in League 1 in 2017) but as usual, keepers mean feck all in drafts

 

[Gio]

Tbh, I was expecting something else from Gio. The only difference from R1 seems to be Laudrup is classed as SS rather than #10. I'm pretty sure the way Laudrup/Best/Giggs would play would be exactly similar to R1 except on paper. But anyway, since Sjor is OK, I suppose it's OK.

To be fair your system is fairly similar to your first round set up, where your most advanced midfielder has moved forward a little but it’s otherwise reasonably similar. Ultimately the only way to have fully enforced the system change would have been to require a change at the back from 4 to 3 or vice versa.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Mata will naturally drift inside, who you expect to offer something from the right?

Fair point. But he does offers a lot of with as right midfielder rather than a typical winger. I don't expect him to start beating defenders with pace and dribbling, but just move into intelligent positions out wide and put in crosses and create opportunities for others. With opponent's DMs concentrated on containing Platini, Mata would be the secondary creative force running this game.

In respect to this game, he's probably a good fit against Maldini. Won't try any fancy stuff here. Just hang back and invite Maldini to move forward to get to him stretching the rest of defence.

As you can see from below heatmaps, he certainly offers enough width to keep opponent's fullback on their toes. If left free he certainly will influence the game from the right flank.

vs Liverpool in 2015.

vs Fulham:

Chelsea's Mata vs Arsenal

I suppose he doesn't help Cohen out enough defensively? Littbarski instead maybe?

I don't think Cohen really needs that much support.
- He has operated as sole wide man in wingless wonders for England in 1966 WC.
- He has played against George Best 8 times and not let in any goals including one in Group Stage of '66 WC.
- George Best described Cohen as "the best full back I ever played against". Alf Ramsey called Cohen "England's greatest right back"

I'll try to pull more later on him, but by all accounts he was a defensively solid RB with good attacking instincts. I certainly believe he'll be up to scratch vs Giggs here.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

To be fair your system is fairly similar to your first round set up, where your most advanced midfielder has moved forward a little but it’s otherwise reasonably similar. Ultimately the only way to have fully enforced the system change would have been to require a change at the back from 4 to 3 or vice versa.

I have a #10 now. Surely moving from a system without a #10 to having a GOAT one should count as a significant change? The way my earlier midfield created (by Littbarski drifting in) is completely different from how Platini will run the game now. Anyway, that was just an afterthought comment best discussed outside of match thread. Not really relevant to this game.

Good article on Baxter though!

 

[harms]

I feel Mata might actually be a great fit in a Carre Magique. He's nice and creative, but will also be happy to not be the main man. I suppose he doesn't help Cohen out enough defensively? Littbarski instead maybe?

I think he lacks the engine that Giresse provided. On the ball he'd be a great foil to Platini.

 

[Gio]

The gameplan for the midfield is straightforward - get the ball out wide and up to the forwards feet early. We want Giggs galloping at Cohen and Best bombing at Evra as much as we can. We also want to hit Laudrup and Henry nice and early. Laudrup has plenty of experience in similar attacking/strike partner roles for club and country. He will enjoy the chance to slalom his magic feet against Terry and Carvalho. Same for Henry whose burning pace will be difficult to stop. He too is used to the system and loved the sharper and more vertical service he received at Arsenal. And Henry has a good track record against both CBs, scoring just shy of a goal every game at 110 and 120 minutes respectively in direct head to heads. Terry and Carvalho were a tremendous and often underrated partnership, not always getting their dues on here, but I’m not sure they’d enjoy this type of slippery and speed-based test, generally preferring a more conventional physical or aerial confrontation.

 

[Synco]

@Gio @2mufc0

What would you say is the difference between Laudrup's role here and in the first game? And in what ways does a more forward-like role fit with his traits as a player?

(Btw, this is not a question about the system change rule, just about the player and the setup. Also all genuine questions.)

----------------------
Edit - this part just came in at the same time & already answers important parts of my second question:

Laudrup has plenty of experience in similar attacking/strike partner roles for club and country. He will enjoy the chance to slalom his magic feet against Terry and Carvalho.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Terry and Carvalho were a tremendous and often underrated partnership, not always getting their dues on here, but I’m not sure they’d enjoy this type of slippery and speed-based test, generally preferring a more conventional physical or aerial confrontation.

There's not much to go as per Transfermarkt, but Henry has faced Terry/Carvalho partnership in 3 matches. He scored 2 in first match and was shut out in other two matches. Too low of a sample to get to conclusions, but I think they'll hold their own here. Both are fast, intelligent and have proven time together. It'd be a even matchup.

 

[Gio]

@Synco See post above.

In the previous game he was an archetypal 10 functioning as an orchestrator. Here is operating in a clear strike partnership, calling upon his close control, dribbling and movement across the defensive line, in roles similar to Mexico ‘86 or at various stages of his club career ( thinking particularly of some of his f9 and wide forward stuff for Barca or partnering the likes of Zamorano for Real). And the purpose is to get him out of the tough central midfield area patrolled by Desailly and Edwards and into 1v1s with Edgar’s defence and dropping into pockets of space.

 

[harms]

@Gio @2mufc0 team on paper looks spectacular but i dont think its as good as it looks. Best is at his best in a free roaming role, to do so another winger should be comfortable on the right

And Giggs isn't? He has played a lot there in his younger days, including a certain 1999 CL final.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Why I'll win:

Attack:

1. Midfield superiority - My midfield is both individually and collectively better. My team will dominate most of possession and dictate the pace of the game.
2. Michel Platini - "Mackay will stop Platini" doesn't really do justice here. Esp when he has support from Edwards, Mata and Litti all round him. He's the best player on the pitch and it'll show...esp against a 2 man midfield. It'll be his game to dominate.
3. Better GK - Van Der Sar vs Dean Henderson. 'nough said!

Defense:

4. Without possession, they are stuck with counters and limited opportunities.
5. Superior DM's in Desailly and Edwards to shield the defence and help fullbacks as necessary. Cohen matches well to Giggs. Desailly will drop back and help vs Best and squeeze out space for Laudrup.

.

Overall, I think I match to his attack well...but he has no answers to Platini!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

And Giggs isn't? He has played a lot there in his younger days, including a certain 1999 CL final.

IMO isnt, you cant tell me with a straight face you would play Giggs on the right as you do with the likes of Best, Figo, Finney etc.
Not sure how much he played on the right but in that final we were utter shit and outplayed for pretty much 99% of the game( )so not a game that you would use as an example.

 

[Gio]

Mackay’s main assignment will be keeping tabs on Platini. Having marked Eusebio out of the game, twice no less, in a European Cup Semi Final, he has proven pedigree in limiting the greats.

It was the beginning of the glory, glory European nights and no team wanted to draw us, partly because of the atmosphere that our crowd would generate. We beat everyone at White Hart Lane, even Eusébio’s Benfica, although they got past us on aggregate. Eusébio didn’t get a kick in either leg but he did have Dave Mackay marking him. Mackay was quite intimidating. We’d wear all-white strips in Europe and there was just something about those evening kick-offs. The air seemed a bit fresher and it was as though you could run a bit longer and a bit faster.

You talk about Pele, George Best and the all-time greats and Eusebio’s right up there alongside them, he’s in that company. But when we met again in 2010, the one player he wanted to know all about was Dave Mackay. Eusebio told me he was the most feared player he ever came up against. I still say Dave was the most influential player I’ve ever played alongside. He could change teams, change games, he did it at Hearts and after Spurs, he went to Derby and took them to to the title. He was an absolute winner.

He was the finest wing-half I ever played against.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Mackay’s main assignment will be keeping tabs on Platini. Having marked Eusebio out of the game, twice no less, in a European Cup Semi Final, he has proven pedigree in limiting the greats.

Doesn't really help, does it. When Mata cuts in who'll keep tabs on him? When Edwards moves up who'll handle him?

When I'll have the ball, I''ll have Platini, Mata and Edwards moving up to support. Your sole DM is Mackay who'll be completely overwhelmed.

Plus Platini is a completely different player than Eusebio. Eusebio needed to be on the ball to work his magic...his talent was pace and directness. Platini can make magic happen with his passing from the deep. It's so much harder to mark a Platini out than Eusebio.

 

[Gio]

Doesn't really help, does it. When Mata cuts in who'll keep tabs on him? When Edwards moves up who'll handle him?

Mata is up against Maldini. He cuts in, as he will do, and he reduces the space for Platini to operate in. And it brings Maldini inside, reinforcing our defensive core with the last man you want adding a layer of security to our back line.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Mata is up against Maldini. He cuts in, as he will do, and he reduces the space for Platini to operate in. And it brings Maldini inside, reinforcing our defensive core with the last man you want adding a layer of security to our back line.

That's a very simplistic take on the situation. If in theory as you say Platini is tied up, it'd be natural for Mata to step in. It'll be to support Platini and free him. Nothing constrictive about that.

- You ignored what happens if Edwards moves up which he naturally will. He is good workrate and nifty in passing too. What happens then?
- Will McGrain cut in with Litti too? McGrain isn't really that kind of player to track Litti who's comfortable all over the field through the middle and both flanks.

There's just too many ways through the middle that I can hurt you. Esp if Mackay is tied up with Platini, rest of the team will just have a free shot at your backline.

 

[Gio]

That's a very simplistic take on the situation. If in theory as you say Platini is tied up, it'd be natural for Mata to step in. It'll be to support Platini and free him. Nothing constrictive about that.

- You ignored what happens if Edwards moves up which he naturally will. He is good workrate and nifty in passing too. What happens then?
- Will McGrain cut in with Litti too? McGrain isn't really that kind of player to track Litti who's comfortable all over the field through the middle and both flanks.

There's just too many ways through the middle that I can hurt you. Esp if Mackay is tied up with Platini, rest of the team will just have a free shot at your backline.

I’m not really seeing what all these ways are through the middle. We’ve got a solid defence where both full-backs are comfortable defending centrally, both with solid pedigree at centre-half. I’d also back them 1v1 in their respective assignments. We are also getting plenty of midfield work rate through Mackay, Giggs, Baxter and even Best could put a shift in.

Far more compellingly though is how are you defending the flanks? Giggs and Maldini against Cohen and Mata looks like a chance creation highway. And Best and McGrain is perfectly complementary and an ominous task for Evra up against one of the GOAT dribblers.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I’m not really seeing what all these ways are through the middle. We’ve got a solid defence where both full-backs are comfortable defending centrally, both with solid pedigree at centre-half. I’d also back them 1v1 in their respective assignments. We are also getting plenty of midfield work rate through Mackay, Giggs, Baxter and even Best could put a shift in.

Problem is there won't be an 1vs1 for your fullbacks. With a free roaming side like my attack, you just lack the bodies in middle to defend against. Giggs and Best defending the middle sounds really good in paper, but I'd take that with a buckelad of salt. I don't even buy Mackay could shut Platini far less anyone else cutting in. 4-4-2 isn't really known for midfield dominance for a reason.

Far more compellingly though is how are you defending the flanks? Giggs and Maldini against Cohen and Mata looks like a chance creation highway. And Best and McGrain is perfectly complementary and an ominous task for Evra up against one of the GOAT dribblers.

As I said, Cohen has proven himself against top wingers including George Best. He'll suffice against Giggs. Plus in extreme cases Edwards is always there.
Evra has probably the best defensive minded DM of all time in Desailly. Unlike either of your midfielders, he certainly has ability to drop back and squeeze space.

Your entire game plan is to hold back and counter through the flanks and hope Laudrup/Henry makes some magic. I just see minimal chances of that happening.

 

[P-Nut]

Switched to EAP after the discussion. That midfield 3 should control the game and I'd back him to score more, with more of the ball and facing basically a sheep GK.

 

[harms]

IMO isnt, you cant tell me with a straight face you would play Giggs on the right as you do with the likes of Best, Figo, Finney etc.
Not sure how much he played on the right

Quite a lot, especially when Sharpe was also in the squad – enough for me to see him being comfortable compensating for Best from time to time. He obviously isn't as versatile as Best/Finney/Figo, but he wasn't completely one-sided. I wouldn't start him there in a draft though, no.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Switched to EAP after the discussion. That midfield 3 should control the game and I'd back him to score more, with more of the ball and facing basically a sheep GK.

Finally. I get vindicated!

*Nope, I have no frustration after having lost multiple games just due to GKs*

 

[harms]

How can a man so fixated on Eusebio's best role as an inside right (or is it inside left?) casually put Edwards on the right side of a midfield pair?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

How can a man so fixated on Eusebio's best role as an inside right (or is it inside left?) casually put Edwards on the right side of a midfield pair?

I really hated doing that. But from what I've watched of Big Dunc, he's comfortably two footed and does pop up all through the middle. There's even a video of his dribbling from right penalty corner area somewhere in YouTube. I give priority to where he played actually, so would prefer him at left in general.

As to this match specifically, Desailly will stay deep helping against Best/Laudrup...so Dunc pretty much has free role in middle. He's no way restricted to left. He'll drop there defensively (since Desailly is already there on other side) to help Cohen if necessary, but when he has the ball he has a free run through the middle supporting Platini.

I've watched Eusebio so often. I still believe his "peak" position is IR...but have come to accept IL as his secondary position. But as a farther left as LW in any formation, I won't buy it. He pops up there something, but that's not really where he operates.

 

[Himannv]

I feel Baxter is probably at his best as and 8 in a midfield 3. I know he'd played in a 2 man midfield, but I see that as similar to Charlton and Stiles in midfield in the 60s. Is this the wrong idea of the player?

 

[antohan]

Not a huge fan of either side.

Gio's is screaming "you need a proper CF" at me and has a sheep keeper. It doesn't mean every shot at goal goes in, mind, it's a pro GK after all however underwhelming.

Edgar has a tough defensive core for a change but his attack looks like a random assortment of players. I love Juan but have no idea why he is on the pitch. That side should be countering and needs more pace and movement for Platini to hit from deep. Not sold on Kempes either. Can see Platini and Litti working really well, but not being enough.

May well be a pretty dull goalless draw this.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I love Juan but have no idea why he is on the pitch.

Blame it on Sjor. Per criteria, we need a player from current United side to be on the pitch, so Mata makes first XI.
It's either Kempes or Drogba. Though I think Drogba might be a better tactical fit. Kempes's goal rate weighed a lot in my reckoning.

 

[Gio]

Switched to EAP after the discussion. That midfield 3 should control the game and I'd back him to score more, with more of the ball and facing basically a sheep GK.

Problem is EAP’s midfield suits counter attacking football. How it is shaped up is Platini and Edwards will be matched up by Mackay and Baxter, which leaves Desailly at the base as the man with all the time on the ball. Now with all due respect to big Marcel he’s not exactly a deep-lying playmaker. Frankly we are quite happy to let him have the ball there as it’s unlikely he will hurt us in possession, and we can be organised behind that ready to pounce on the counter down the flanks.

It’s unlikely there will be midfield control in this game. Edgar’s midfield is built to stop another midfield from playing through it. Therefore our tactic is to relentlessly use the flanks which is basic 4-4-2 stuff. Win the ball then shift it wide. We also want to bypass the midfield through the centre to get it up to Henry and Laudrup early so they can use their killer pace and 1v1 ability on the break. Ultimately we are winning too many 1v1s or 2v2s out wide and up top to be able to be stopped.

 

[Gio]

I feel Baxter is probably at his best as and 8 in a midfield 3. I know he'd played in a 2 man midfield, but I see that as similar to Charlton and Stiles in midfield in the 60s. Is this the wrong idea of the player?

I think he's comfortable either/or. For Rangers he played in a midfield 2, in a similar set-up to this. But you could certainly play him in a 3 as well in a more modern set-up. The reason such a talented ball player worked in a 2 is because:

• Positionally he would typically stay behind the ball, dictating the play from the central midfield areas. He could overlap and overload in wide areas, but he liked to hold from that left CM area.
• Work off the ball. He tracked back and matched runs well, showing good defensive intelligence in that area of the park. Worth a look at the video against England in 1963, or even some of the footage of his games against Celtic, where he shows those attributes.

It's probably worth emphasising his record against England. Now the year before he played his first game, England pumped Scotland 9-3. Then this happened:

• 1962 - Scotland 2-0 England
• 1963 - England 1-2 Scotland
• 1966 - Scotland 3-4 England
• 1967 - England 2-3 Scotland

This wasn't any England, but Ramsey's World Champions. This was him routinely bossing matches against Charlton, Greaves, Moore and Banks. Now Edgar has said that Platini is a different type of player than the Eusebio that Mackay tamed, which is true enough. But Charlton was also stymied by the Baxter-led midfield - Bobby having run riot the year before and then unable to influence the games to the same extent. In 1962, Baxter was 'sublimely skilful' in a 'miraculous' performance. In 1963, he controlled the game on and off the ball - “…the new-born riot of self-expression that bubbled freely from Baxter, (Dave) Mackay, (John) White and (Denis) Law, the all-important quadrilateral that formed the heart of the Scottish effort." By 1967, on the pitch England had won the World Cup a few months earlier, he was simply 'taking the mickey'.

 

[Gio]

Clearest route to goal for me is our left flank, namely Ryan Giggs against George Cohen. We know Mata can't defend, so at times that could be Maldini and Giggs against Cohen. And then you've got one of the best of all time in overloading a left flank to fashion goalscoring opportunities in Thierry Henry providing linkage and extra thrust.

Nothing against Cohen in particular, he's a steady full-back. But in this company he's the weakest defender on the pitch by some margin. An he's up against an uber-strong left flank with the waify Mata ahead of him in support.

Just look at those assist stats. And in our chosen time period, his goal threat from the left was exceptional too.

 

[Synco]

Nothing against Cohen in particular, he's a steady full-back. But in this company he's the weakest defender on the pitch by some margin.

Is that based on Cohen's actual strengths and weaknesses, or more an assumption based on draft status?

I'm asking because I often found old school FBs to be defensive specialists first. For example, watching Armfield footage, I found his defensive ability absolutely impressive, and I'd have him as a top notch defensive option out wide (maybe even a good CB in a back three).

Don't have a picture of Cohen though, hence my question. He should be somewhat known for his 1966 games.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

What my opponent is missing. GKs are totally ignored, but this should be the most significant weakness in their team!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Clearest route to goal for me is our left flank, namely Ryan Giggs against George Cohen.

Totally disagree. A player who has faced George Best 8 times and hasn't let a goal in shouldn't be casually written off.

By all accounts, both his Fulham and NT stints were solid. For that era he was a top notch RB.

I certainly don't see Giggs having any sort of advantages here.

It’s unlikely there will be midfield control in this game. Edgar’s midfield is built to stop another midfield from playing through it.

Again this is far from true. I'm not the playing defensively through the middle. I have players and ball to dominate possession.

4-4-2 has never been a possession centric formation and facing a midfield far superior in quality won't help you either.

I can easily see this like a 60-40 possession game in my favor.

Your team will play counter through the flanks, but my stout defense will be easily up to the task.