As a Business, top 2-3.
As a team, top 10-15.
As a team, top 10-15.
Oppo fans — where do you rank Man United?
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
Combining history, commercial success and, of course, recent football form and trophies, I’d say that Real and Barca are in the class of their own, judging by the past decade. We’re somewhere in the second group — with Juventus, Bayern (top-2 in that tier), Chelsea and perhaps a few more (like PSG and City, maybe Milan) — and, sadly, it’s mostly because of our name and not because of our on the field success.
Forgot about Liverpool — they still have a loyal and numerous base of supporters, and they’re lucky to play in the most marketable league which allowed them to capitalize on their name even without any trophies. They’re moving in the right direction though, hopefully something will go wrong on the way.
Forgot about Liverpool — they still have a loyal and numerous base of supporters, and they’re lucky to play in the most marketable league which allowed them to capitalize on their name even without any trophies. They’re moving in the right direction though, hopefully something will go wrong on the way.
Historically speaking, Milan is a much more successful club than United, while Liverpool is slightly more successful.
Agree we are incredibly fortunate, still no idea how we got through against Barca with 10 men. Would have put 10K on us going out and felt very comfortable. We were due, after going out unfortunately multiple times and Terry in Moscow..
Just trying to put on context on where I see Utd in a footballing sense at the moment. Mentioning the Seville game last year probably more relevant. That probably goes for the premier league as a whole as well though, Spanish teams have been far ahead and that's why they have a 22 point lead in the UEFA coefficient.
United a nothing team in the 80's?
Here's how United finished in the League in 80's:
2, 8, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 11, 2, 11. Throw in a couple of FA-Cups as well.
I'm curious to hear what you think about Spurs.
Spurs since 2008:
11, 8, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 3. League Cup in 2008.
Looks like a whole lot of nothing as well, using your yardstick
Huge club obviously, but I do worry where your next PL/CL title is coming from which is what keeps you current. How long without winning your own league can you really be considered one of the biggest clubs in the world on any given day, in every discussion?
We are already looking at 12/13 since your last title, so 5 seasons have since passed by and you can already see it’s going to be 6 seasons. If the club don’t get it right quickly inside then 6 quickly becomes 10 and how can you be one of the very biggest clubs in the world if you haven’t won your own league in a decade? Certainly not in the bracket you’ve just mentioned.
Forever a big club, but slipping from that very top bracket of the 3 clubs you’ve just mentioned as each year passes by without the PL/CL, is my view.
We are already looking at 12/13 since your last title, so 5 seasons have since passed by and you can already see it’s going to be 6 seasons. If the club don’t get it right quickly inside then 6 quickly becomes 10 and how can you be one of the very biggest clubs in the world if you haven’t won your own league in a decade? Certainly not in the bracket you’ve just mentioned.
Forever a big club, but slipping from that very top bracket of the 3 clubs you’ve just mentioned as each year passes by without the PL/CL, is my view.
Historically:
1. Real Madrid
2. Milan
3. Barcelona
4. Bayern Munich
5. United/Liverpool/Juventus
Manchester United probably have the highest potential out of any club in the world. You are the most popular club in the most marketable league. The Glazers and the incompetent Woodward are keeping you down though.
1. Real Madrid
2. Milan
3. Barcelona
4. Bayern Munich
5. United/Liverpool/Juventus
Manchester United probably have the highest potential out of any club in the world. You are the most popular club in the most marketable league. The Glazers and the incompetent Woodward are keeping you down though.
Care to explain how it's not true?
Didn't we just eclipse Liverpool's trophy record? 41 to 40 or something.
Every time a thread like this pops up, I’d rank you little lower.
You were nothing in the 70/80 sUnited a nothing team in the 80's?
Here's how United finished in the League in 80's:
2, 8, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 11, 2, 11. Throw in a couple of FA-Cups as well.
I'm curious to hear what you think about Spurs.
Spurs since 2008:
11, 8, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 3. League Cup in 2008.
Looks like a whole lot of nothing as well, using your yardstick
Famous yes. Relegated yes. Not very good. You’ve had a 25 yr run that ended when the mgr of that run retired. For a team your size you haven’t coped very well. Get rid of this mgr asap.
No it's not but people with batshit crazy views need to be brought up on it
My opinion on United speaking both as a supporter and how I would view the club if I wasn't would be that we're the new Arsenal/Liverpool, not good enough to challenge but there or thereabouts for a top 4 finish spliced in with the occasional cup trophy
Look at the thread title please - I am aware Spurs have been a nothing team since the 1960's but thanks anyway. Do you want to hear opp fans views or not?United a nothing team in the 80's?
Here's how United finished in the League in 80's:
2, 8, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 11, 2, 11. Throw in a couple of FA-Cups as well.
I'm curious to hear what you think about Spurs.
Spurs since 2008:
11, 8, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 3. League Cup in 2008.
Looks like a whole lot of nothing as well, using your yardstick
Are you an opp fan? If not then why are you responding in this thread?
I'd agree with both of these as well however it does raise another question who are the top 3 club sides in Europe? Real obviously, Barca probably, after them I have no idea though as I feel at the moment you have a bracket beneath them with Juve, Bayern, City, possibly Liverpool now and we're probably that bracket below them in that 3rd tier
I assume you only read the title of the thread
Size of United? Biggest, second or third biggest in the world. That is undeniable.
In terms of performances on the pitch, I’d go with top 10. Definitely nowhere near my top 5, which is Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve and City in that order, but quite possibly 7th or 8th as PSG and Atleti while good are still up fpr debate whether they are better than us or not. We can beat Pool and Spurs on our day.
In terms of performances on the pitch, I’d go with top 10. Definitely nowhere near my top 5, which is Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve and City in that order, but quite possibly 7th or 8th as PSG and Atleti while good are still up fpr debate whether they are better than us or not. We can beat Pool and Spurs on our day.
It’s a difficult question and depends on your perspective. What makes the club big? If it’s fans worldwide, United are up there. If it’s members, they are nowhere near the top. If it’s past success, they are up there, but not at the very top. If it’s current success, nowhere near the top. If it’s financial success, no one except for Real comes even close.
I usually value the potential appeal to top players very highly. If the next Neymar bursted onto the scene today, who’d be able to get him? Which clubs would that guy likely consider?
If that’s how it’s determined, I’d put Real, Barca, PSG, potentially City, Juve and Bayern above United. But that’s obviously just one of many aspects, just the one I usually put most emphasis on.
What I find interesting is where PSG would rank for most people. They are a relatively new club and don’t have much history to show for, but as of right now, they are huge. Especially amongst kids. I see so many kids with PSG jerseys, it’s incredible. Almost as many as Real and Barca have. They seem to be the ultimate instagram club there is.
So to give my completely subjective ranking, I’d do it like that:
Real
Barca
PSG
Juve
City
Bayern
United
Liverpool
Chelsea
Atletico
If you guys continue like this and Klopp starts to win titles, they’ll pass you, too.
Many of you will obviously disagree and I actually get why. It’s just that I put a lot of emphasis on the present and not so much on the past.
Current global popularity - third after Real and Barca.
Recent on pitch achievement and quality - somewhere in the 10-12 range, clearly after Real, Barca, Atlético, PSG, Bayern, Juve, City, Chelsea. Competing with Spurs, Arsenal, Sevilla, BvB, Monaco tier.
Historical on pitch achievement and quality - probably in the 5-7 range, clearly after Real, Barca, Bayern, and Milan. Competing with Juve and Liverpool.
Recent on pitch achievement and quality - somewhere in the 10-12 range, clearly after Real, Barca, Atlético, PSG, Bayern, Juve, City, Chelsea. Competing with Spurs, Arsenal, Sevilla, BvB, Monaco tier.
Historical on pitch achievement and quality - probably in the 5-7 range, clearly after Real, Barca, Bayern, and Milan. Competing with Juve and Liverpool.
PSG are just a team full of Hollywood players. Individuals who like to showboat and with no balance to their side. They will never win the Champions League without a balanced side.
This is without doubt the toughest period in over 30 years for United. All we have to show for it is 3 trophies. Sure, only two clubs in our own league have achieved more in that 5 year period but it's not enough. Not even close.
Off the pitch it hasn't had any impact whatsoever, so that alone tells you where United stand from a business perspective. On it, questions are rightly asked. But remember, United do not have the advantages of a Bayern, Juventus, Madrid or Barcelona. We face numerous challenges for success domestically and every trophy won holds value. There are no guarantees in English football.
It is harder for United, and any big English club to achieve success, than it is for others around Europe.
Off the pitch it hasn't had any impact whatsoever, so that alone tells you where United stand from a business perspective. On it, questions are rightly asked. But remember, United do not have the advantages of a Bayern, Juventus, Madrid or Barcelona. We face numerous challenges for success domestically and every trophy won holds value. There are no guarantees in English football.
It is harder for United, and any big English club to achieve success, than it is for others around Europe.
I would guess that European Cup might be a bit more important than Carling Cup, to be fair.
We were in danger of becoming the next Liverpool before we got in Jose to steady the ship. That's why we had to get him. We simply couldn't take a risk at that point as one oppo fan have stated here. We needed to prevent the slide which Moyes started and LVG carried on post Fergie. I reckon opposition fans outside of this forum think we've declined massively and Old Trafford is no longer a nailed on defeat and certainly doesn't hold the same terror it once did. But, I think they know that because of our resources, once we sort our structure out behind the scenes and provided we keep within the top 3 or 4 until that happens then we could very well become a Juggernaut again.
Hmm...
20 league titles to 18
12 FA Cups to 7
3 European Cups to 5
5 League Cups to 8
1 Uefa Cups to 3
1 CWC to 0
2 more league titles, 5 more FA Cups compared to 2 more European Cups and 3 more league cups. Uniteds is slightly better, and both are mighty impressive.
De Gea would not start over Neuer and Pogba would not start over Modric. There, I found at least one team.
Would undoubtedly take Liverpool's record over ours. 18-5 is much better than 20-3. We have 5 extra FA cups while they have 2 UEFA cups more and 3 league cups which kind of make even the secondary trophies.
You're better than Chelsea? Lol
We've won the league twice in 5 seasons and you think you're better than us because you were second last season right?
Funniest thing is you think you're no better than Athletico Madrid but you're better than Chelsea.
Best supported club in the world for sure. Biggest waste of money in world football since SAF left. A PL club like Arsenal or Spurs would be in administration if they wasted as much money. Being United though you have the financial model to throw money at the problem until it sticks.
Why do people include Bayern in that three? Barcelona and Madrid are in their own league.
Man Utd are Liverpool in the 1990s.
Man Utd are Liverpool in the 1990s.
No you haven't what you've done in Pogba's case is said he wouldn't replace one player, that's like saying Ronaldo wouldn't start over Messi at Barca - both would play obviously
I've got no idea tbh, they dominate a 1 team league and are always found left wanting in the UCL
Yet they have 5 European Cups. Germany is probably the second best nation at football after Brazil and a lot of those players play for Bayern. So the reason they’re in the bracket because of the monopoly that they have in the first place. A bit like us in the 90’s and early 00’s.
Just take a long hard look at AC Milan and you get a glimpse of where United are heading if they don't get their acts together asap.
The 18-5 is an odd stat since 4 of the 5 wins in the European Cup/CL were in a totally different era where the competition was treated in a much different fashion. It was definitely harder to get into since you either had to be Champions of your country or the previous years' winner but once you were in it was far, far easier to win. Just to give some perspective, the first 5 times United were in the competition they reached at least the semi finals. As a British team once in you were virtually guaranteed a long run. It's interesting to consider but from a footballing POV Liverpool were good at just the right time (70s and 80s) and their history reflects this with 4 European Cups in 7 years and 11 League Championships between 1973 and 1990. United on the other hand started on their run just as the Premiership was taking off and the money was starting to roll in. United not only became a footballing behemoth but a financial juggernaut as well. Liverpool have spent the last 30 years trying to catch up. They probably never will.
Here we go. The old argument. 5 counts as 5
Would you rather 18-4-1. 20-1-2
Whats the difference. Liverpool were regarded as the best team in Europe over a seven year period. A feat united can never match. United have done slightly better at home.
Records about the same except we are Englands kings of Europe.
Get a new mgr
But that's the point - does it really? When Liverpool won the competition back in the 70s and 80s it had different criteria and different rules. It isn't the same competition any more. Liverpool have won 4 European Cups and 1 CL. United have 1 European Cup and 2 CLs. Both competitions have their merits in terms of prestige, difficulty to win etc... but nobody can really argue that they are actually the same competition.
As to being "England's Kings of Europe"
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2526945.html
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The numbers count the same as far as stats go. Lets just say 18-5. 20-3
Leave it at that. You are more famous. We are known as European giants. Kind of even
Yeah, because the most profitable and valuable football club in the world will be banned by UEFA for failing FFP because they can't break even
Honestly what a hyperbolic and frankly daft claim.
@MaxiPaxi why do you care what internet oppos think of us?
Biggest club commercially, 5th historically, 8th domestically.
Just above Young Boys, for me.