Opposition fans: Pochettino or Solskjaer?

Paxi

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Some of our fans seem to think that there isn't much of difference between Solskjaer and Pochettino in terms of managerial ability. A few of United fans don't think he'd (Poch) would really be an upgrade on Ole currently, so there isn't any point in actually hiring him. Surely, it's just a case of red tinted specs here?

I wanted Ole over Poch, when he went on that amazing run. I genuinely felt like he deserved the job, or at least he should have been in a serious contention for it. When he was announced before summer, I didn't have much cause to complain, as I thought he did enough. Lifted the spirits, got the results -- with of course one them beating PSG in the manner that we did -- which made it feel like United of old. Overall, I backed him fully and the slight downturn in results was put down to the fact that all those amazing results were simply unsustainable long term, with injuries, and squad fitness also taken into consideration etc.

In hindsight, it was a terrible, terrible call to jump the gun and appointment him while we were riding high on an emotional level.

Now, I hear about Pochettino's lack of trophies, his sacking at Spurs. Posters mentioning similarities with Klopp and their starts at thier respective clubs. The mental gymnastics to absolve Ole and to elevate him to Poch and Klopp are astounding. More so Poch, admittedly, with only some similarities being drawn together between Ole and Klopp. What's worse, some try to downplay Pochettino's achievements in his managerial career because he never won a trophy, because he eventually got sacked. I find that really disingenuous to the work he has done. Those two things cause concern but when it comes down to the fact that our man has a dismal win ratio and had already experienced relegation with a Premier League club, dropped down to championship and had torrid time there, they seemingly choose to overlook that part.

So, oppo fans, If your club had a similar crisis to United's and you had Ole or a club legend like Dalglish or Di Matteo say, at the helm; but Pochettino was just waiting there to take over, which manager would you pick? Would you sack your current manager and legend now and hire Poch, or let them try to do the rebuild that they talk about, buy into it, and ultimately stick by them?
 
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Neither. This man should be your primary target:
 

Paxi

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This a joke? Surely?
I don't follow...

But I've seen posts like one below pop up all over the place. From Caf, to my TL on twitter, to some of my mates holding similar opinion. What on earth has Ole done to warrant such blind faith when almost everything is pointing to the contrary whilst on the other hand Pochettino has a proven track record.

Decisions happen in time and in context. A year ago Poch seemed like a stronger coach (even though I never liked his style), but given everything that has happened in the last year - I certainly would not sack Ole and hire Poch, right now.
 
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B20

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If your club had a similar crisis to United which manager would you pick?
Easiest decision ever. Solskjaer has no business managing a top club. Mourinho got it right about him.
 

NewGlory

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Easiest decision ever. Solskjaer has no business managing a top club. Mourinho got it right about him.
Mourinho got beaten by Ole, just couple weeks ago, and Mourinho had a stronger team. So - what was that you were trying to say, again?
 

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Mourinho got beaten by Ole, just couple weeks ago, and Mourinho had a stronger team. So - what was that you were trying to say, again?
Nigel Pearaon’s team, bottom of the league, no wins since April, just beat us 2-0. Should we hire him?
 

Rob

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I don’t see how it’s even a contest. If Ole hadn’t been a good player for you once, he would’ve never been hired in the first place. I like him a lot as he seems like a genuinely nice bloke, but he hasn’t, by any measurement, earned the right to manage one of the three biggest clubs in the world.

Imagine some random guy who’s won a couple of trophies with Molde and relegated Cardiff suddenly being manager of Manchester United. It sounds absurd.

I get that it’s a nice story and all, but imo you need to get a better manager fast and stop the bleeding. The longer it carries on, the longer it will take to turn it around.
 

NewGlory

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Ole beat Guardiola too
And Klopp. The only team Liverpool lost points with this year was us, and we really should have won that game. It was a stupid fluke of a chance to concede the goal from them. We beat them with our game - we beat the strongest team in the world, currently! But clearly Ole is a "clueless" coach despite out-performing the best EPL coaches in head-to-head matches. That is not good enough for some Caf-ers.

I don’t see how it’s even a contest. If Ole hadn’t been a good player for you once, he would’ve never been hired in the first place. I like him a lot as he seems like a genuinely nice bloke, but he hasn’t, by any measurement, earned the right to manage one of the three biggest clubs in the world.

Imagine some random guy who’s won a couple of trophies with Molde and relegated Cardiff suddenly being manager of Manchester United. It sounds absurd.

I get that it’s a nice story and all, but imo you need to get a better manager fast and stop the bleeding. The longer it carries on, the longer it will take to turn it around.
No! Ole got the job because of the amazing initial run he had during the caretaking period, including the incredible win over PSG in the Champions League. That is why he got the job, let's be very clear about the facts, shall we?

Nobody knows if Ole will eventually be successful or not, including Ole. But there is also no guarantee whatsoever that anybody else will do better. We've tried big-name coaches and they did worse. So why should we be changing coaches every other year? To please some impatient supporters on Caf?
 
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R'hllor

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This gonna be good. Some wont be able to take it and might come with gems.
 

Rob

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No! Ole got the job because of the amazing run he had during the caretaking period, including the incredible win over PSG in the Champions League. That is why he got the job, let's be very clear about the facts, shall we?

Nobody knows if Ole will eventually be successful or not, including Ole. But there is also no guarantee whatsoever that anybody else will do better. We've tried big-names coaches and they did worse. So why should we be changing coaches every other year? To please some impatient supporters on Caf?
I meant as a caretaker, but perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. Some Joe Random who had managed Molde and relegated Cardiff would never in a million years have been considered for even a caretaker role at Manchester United.

As for the last bit, other than those initial 12 games or so, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Ole’s got what it takes to bring you back fighting for titles or thereabouts, which is where I’m sure you want to be, and, frankly, where a club like United should be, instead of lingering in 8th chasing Sheffield United. I’m actually a bit amazed that you, like a lot of other posters, seem to think that he does. Be interesting to see where you’re at in 12 months time.
 

NewGlory

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I meant as a caretaker, but perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. Some Joe Random who had managed Molde and relegated Cardiff would never in a million years have been considered for even a caretaker role at Manchester United.

As for the last bit, other than those initial 12 games or so, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Ole’s got what it takes to bring you back fighting for titles or thereabouts, which is where I’m sure you want to be, and, frankly, where a club like United should be, instead of lingering in 8th chasing Sheffield United. I’m actually a bit amazed that you, like a lot of other posters, seem to think that he does. Be interesting to see where you’re at in 12 months time.
Yes, the caretaker position he indeed got because he was a club legend. But what is your point? Caretaker roles are quite meaningless in their temporal nature, and given how demoralized team was after Mourinho, appointing a club legend made some sense. It was tad surprising, nevertheless – I give you that much, but that has little to do with his eventual permanent appointment. Nobody thought he would stay permanently when he was appointed as the caretaker.

As for the last bit, other than those initial 12 games or so, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Ole’s got what it takes to bring you back fighting for titles or thereabouts, which is where I’m sure you want to be, and, frankly, where a club like United should be, instead of lingering in 8th chasing Sheffield United. I’m actually a bit amazed that you, like a lot of other posters, seem to think that he does. Be interesting to see where you’re at in 12 months time.
Well, I just disagree with the notion that he is clueless. Clueless coaches cannot consistently beat the best coaches head-to-head. Clearly he is no idiot. We do have a problem with weaker teams, but what is easier to fix - beating weaker teams or the strongest ones?

We are not where we want to be, but I think Ole has shown enough to not sack him yet. Sacking a manager every year isn't going to build anything, especially when clearly our biggest problem is not the manager, it's Woodward, the board, and recruitement.
 

Paxi

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Yes, the caretaker position he indeed got because he was a club legend. But what is your point? Caretaker roles are quite meaningless in their temporal nature, and given how demoralized team was after Mourinho, appointing a club legend made some sense. It was tad surprising, nevertheless – I give you that much, but that has little to do with his eventual permanent appointment. Nobody thought he would stay permanently when he was appointed as the caretaker.
So what about now comparing Ole to likes of Poch and more laughably Klopp? Saying you wouldn't swap Ole for Poch? Why exactly?
 

NewGlory

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So what about now comparing Ole to likes of Poch and more laughably Klopp? Saying you wouldn't swap Ole for Poch? Why exactly?
See the second part of my response to @Rob above, please. I think Poch would have been an OK appointment before giving the job to Ole, but where we are now – sacking Ole now and bringing Poch, who since has struggled himself, is not wise.

By the way, I never said Ole is anywhere as good as Klopp. Klopp is probably the best manager in the world, currently. I just said - Ole has held his own against Klopp in head-to-head games, and that shows Ole is not an idiot some try to paint him.
 

B20

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And Klopp.
He didn’t beat him. He drew. At home.

Seriously, Wtf had happened to your lot that a draw at old trafford is celebrated as one of your most storied results of the season.

It's ain't right and basically I blame solskjaer. Where Moyes was all foot in mouth when he talked about dragging the team down to his level, solskjaer has actually gotten fans to believe him. The latest drivel about the season being for finding out who should be in the squad next year. He's not driven, not a winner, just lowering the standards of your club over and over. He'll keep moving the goalposts to suit whatever level you sink to.

And that's what I meant about mourinho being right about him. He has the easiest job in the league. Performing worse than any United manager for god knows how many decades and his responses do nothing to address the free fall of performance standards at the club. It's la la land.

I hope he is given all the time that he seems to think he'll get. He's dismantling the club's stature better than any of his predecessors.
 

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He didn’t beat him. He drew. At home.

Seriously, Wtf had happened to your lot that a draw at old trafford is celebrated as one of your most storied results of the season.

It's ain't right and basically I blame solskjaer. Where Moyes was all foot in mouth when he talked about dragging the team down to his level, solskjaer has actually gotten fans to believe him. The latest drivel about the season being for finding out who should be in the squad next year. He's not driven, not a winner, just lowering the standards of your club over and over. He'll keep moving the goalposts to suit whatever level you sink to.

And that's what I meant about mourinho being right about him. He has the easiest job in the league. Performing worse than any United manager for god knows how many decades and his responses do nothing to address the free fall of performance standards at the club. It's la la land.

I hope he is given all the time that he seems to think he'll get. He's dismantling the club's stature better than any of his predecessors.
Fantastic question. The season we finished 2nd, Mourinho was crucified for parking the bus at Anfield and only getting a draw. At a venue where we've struggled almost every season, going back to the days of SAF.

But now a draw against Liverpool AT HOME is a result worth celebrating.
 

R'hllor

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Fantastic question. The season we finished 2nd, Mourinho was crucified for parking the bus at Anfield and only getting a draw. At a venue where we've struggled almost every season, going back to the days of SAF.

But now a draw against Liverpool AT HOME is a result worth celebrating.
People never had a go at him for a result, i should know, was one of them but that performance was more than just parking a bus, was something doubt you would see even in Sunday league, stuff of nightmares for any football fan.
 

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And Klopp. The only team Liverpool lost points with this year was us, and we really should have won that game. It was a stupid fluke of a chance to concede the goal from them. We beat them with our game - we beat the strongest team in the world, currently! But clearly Ole is a "clueless" coach despite out-performing the best EPL coaches in head-to-head matches. That is not good enough for some Caf-ers.



No! Ole got the job because of the amazing initial run he had during the caretaking period, including the incredible win over PSG in the Champions League. That is why he got the job, let's be very clear about the facts, shall we?

Nobody knows if Ole will eventually be successful or not, including Ole. But there is also no guarantee whatsoever that anybody else will do better. We've tried big-name coaches and they did worse. So why should we be changing coaches every other year? To please some impatient supporters on Caf?
Beating big teams is meaningless when we go to shit immediately after. Nuno at Wolves has also gotten results with some regularity against the top 6, should we hire him too.? We only play well when a side gives us space to counter, and against sides who gives us the initiative we are exposed as a clueless team and lots of that is on coaching.

The last bit is comical, you think we should keep a coach that is clearly failing because 3 others did before him? He is doing worse than Mourinho did with this same squad last year and the man was sacked and this time Ole has £150m worth of signings on top.

I have reservations about Poch but he is indisputably better than Ole.
 

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He didn’t beat him. He drew. At home.

Seriously, Wtf had happened to your lot that a draw at old trafford is celebrated as one of your most storied results of the season.

It's ain't right and basically I blame solskjaer. Where Moyes was all foot in mouth when he talked about dragging the team down to his level, solskjaer has actually gotten fans to believe him. The latest drivel about the season being for finding out who should be in the squad next year. He's not driven, not a winner, just lowering the standards of your club over and over. He'll keep moving the goalposts to suit whatever level you sink to.

And that's what I meant about mourinho being right about him. He has the easiest job in the league. Performing worse than any United manager for god knows how many decades and his responses do nothing to address the free fall of performance standards at the club. It's la la land.

I hope he is given all the time that he seems to think he'll get. He's dismantling the club's stature better than any of his predecessors.
The standards has dropped significantly here. It is disappointed to see. However, the season it is not over. Ole can still win Europa League, fa cup and league cup, plus finish in top 4. If Ole fails to meet similar targets sets by previous managers then he should be sacked. There is no reason why we should give Ole more time to rebuild when our result with him has been worse than our past four managers so far.
 

NewGlory

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There is no reason why we should give Ole more time to rebuild when our result with him has been worse than our past four managers so far.
Actually there is a reason. When we were impatient and sacked previous managers it didnt lead to anything better, did it? Why are you so certain that Poch is going to succeed where LVG and Mourinho failed? There is no reason for you to believe such thing, especially with Poch having to deal with Woodward.

I am not saying that we should keep Ole for the sake of keeping him. I am saying that if you believe he has the talent, immediate drop in results can be ignored. Football is not all about short term statistics.

Some of us do believe Ole has talent because he is able to win big games and that is not as easy as some would like to pretend. And Wolves example is actually proving my point - Nuno is indeed a good coach. What he is achieving with Wolves is very respectable.
 

Dorian Gray

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As a Liverpool fan: Solksjaer. Dude's doing a class job of normalizing mediocrity at United.
As a neutral: Pocchetino. And it's not even close.
 

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Actually there is a reason. When we were impatient and sacked previous managers it didnt lead to anything better, did it? Why are you so certain that Poch is going to succeed where LVG and Mourinho failed? There is no reason for you to believe such thing, especially with Poch having to deal with Woodward.

I am not saying that we should keep Ole for the sake of keeping him. I am saying that if you believe he has the talent, immediate drop in results can be ignored. Football is not all about short term statistics.

Some of us do believe Ole has talent because he is able to win big games and that is not as easy as some would like to pretend. And Wolves example is actually proving my point - Nuno is indeed a good coach. What he is achieving with Wolves is very respectable.
Poch has a successful track record of rebuilding and revolutionize the structure of a club with limited resource. This is not rocket science. United can give Poch much more resources than he had at Spurs. Just like how Liverpool foresaw Klopp managerial proficiency at Dortmund, which led to their current success; an organization with great insight will be able to see Poch success at United.

Mourinho had a history of short term success, which end up repeating itself at United. Whereas Lvg was a manager that was still living in the past and could not adapt to a more modern approach to progressive football. Pochettino is the antithesis of these two in that he is one of the most progressive managers in football and he doesn’t have a boring philosophy that has short term objectives. That is why he will succeed over those two. Woodward will back him more then levy, so he won’t be an obstacle.
 

Sky1981

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I don't follow...

But I've seen posts like one below pop up all over the place. From Caf, to my TL on twitter, to some of my mates holding similar opinion. What on earth has Ole done to warrant such blind faith when almost everything is pointing to the contrary whilst on the other hand Pochettino has a proven track record.
Exactly. Poch has walk the miles to stumble at the end.

Ole stumbles on his first race.

Stumble and stumble ole wins
 

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I'm pretty sure no respectable and moderately competitive team in Europe would ever consider hiring Ole once he's gets sacked of United, which is something inevitable given all his limitations as a manager.

So yeah, there's really no discussion here but I'm not surprised anymore as I've also read some delusional people comparing Ole to Klopp.
 

NewGlory

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13 January 2019, Tottenham gets their behinds handed to them by Ole's Man United, at the height of Tottenham's best run of form under Poch. But sure, let's hear how Ole is a loser and Poch is a genius. Haters gonna hate.
 

Paxi

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See the second part of my response to @Rob above, please. I think Poch would have been an OK appointment before giving the job to Ole, but where we are now – sacking Ole now and bringing Poch, who since has struggled himself, is not wise.

By the way, I never said Ole is anywhere as good as Klopp. Klopp is probably the best manager in the world, currently. I just said - Ole has held his own against Klopp in head-to-head games, and that shows Ole is not an idiot some try to paint him.
There are posters who are comparing Klopp's start to his Liverpool tenure to that of Ole's. I'm pretty sure Ole did it himself just yesterday, with his own quotes. It needs to stop. These are delusions of grandeur.
 

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13 January 2019, Tottenham gets their behinds handed to them by Ole's Man United, at the height of Tottenham's best run of form under Poch. But sure, let's hear how Ole is a loser and Poch is a genius. Haters gonna hate.
He has a good record in the big games but that’s about it. We’ve lost more games than we’ve won since he became permanent. 30 points in 25 games. Regularly beaten by relegation fodder. And the result you’re mentioning wasn’t some 5-0 win, it was a narrow 1-0 win where De Gea made 11 saves in the second half.
The best bit of his job has been convincing fans like you that this is the maximum we could achieve. How do you explain Leicester then? Leicester were below us and changed the manager after us. They are 14 points ahead of us now. Yet you people don’t want to look at how, even in a nascent phase, the impact a quality manager could have.
 

NewGlory

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There are posters who are comparing Klopp's start to his Liverpool tenure to that of Ole's. I'm pretty sure Ole did it himself just yesterday, with his own quotes. It needs to stop. These are delusions of grandeur.
Yeah, that is a dreamland. Not only Klopp is at a whole different level, but Liverpool's rebuild has been significantly supported by scientific/analytical/statistical model that Fenway Group and the new owners brought to Liverpool from Baseball. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/magazine/soccer-data-liverpool.html

We don't have anything like that. Comparing our current situation to Liverpool's rebuild is definitely not serious.
 

DAK222

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13 January 2019, Tottenham gets their behinds handed to them by Ole's Man United, at the height of Tottenham's best run of form under Poch. But sure, let's hear how Ole is a loser and Poch is a genius. Haters gonna hate.
And Utd are the only team to take points off Liverpool this season so far. Great! If being 2018/2019 Wolves is the height of your ambition these days then it's good news for your immediate rivals.

About the main question: Pochettino every single time. I'd even be slightly worried about competing against this Utd team coached by Pochettino. He's got a clear vision about how he wants his teams to play. Sometimes the plan's executed well and sometimes it's not. Sometimes the plan's good enough to beat the opposition and sometimes it's not. That's football. Can you describe Solskjaer's envisioned style of play in a succinct way? Simply saying "fast, powerful, the Man Utd way" doesn't count.
 

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13 January 2019, Tottenham gets their behinds handed to them by Ole's Man United, at the height of Tottenham's best run of form under Poch. But sure, let's hear how Ole is a loser and Poch is a genius. Haters gonna hate.
23 October 2011, United gets battered by Mancini's Mancity by 6 goals to 1, at home under Sir Alex Ferguson with a squad full of Premier League winners. Therefore Was Goal is a better manager than Sir Alex. Haters gonna hate.

What a silly argument, overall Poch has achieved way more than Ole. Just like how Sir Alex is way ahead Mancini.
 
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Sky1981

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23 October 2011, United gets battered by Mancini's Mancity by 6 goals to 1, at home under Sir Alex Ferguson with a squad full of Premier League winners. Therefore Was Goal is a better manager than Sir Alex. Haters gonna hate.

What a silly argument, overall Poch has achieved way more than Ole. Just like how Sir Alex is way ahead Mancini.
Klopp is shit, because last week we beat Liverpool by 2-1

Ole > Klopp
 

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I wouldn't sack Lampard for Poch now, of course not.

In a year's time, if Lampard had spent £140 million and we were in the Europa, mid table and not playing particularly enjoyable football? The question gets a bit harder.