Optimism for 25/26 season

[Devarshi]

The idea of a Cunha - Gyokeres (or insert a good CF signing here) - Mbuemo front 3 with Bruno behind orchestrating makes me salivate. Those three up front would inject a lot of the aggressive drive our squad lacks. There are other potentially killer issues of course (lack of squad depth, midfield, GK) but on a good day this team should be killer. I just want to see us break with pace, strength and decisiveness again. Securing European football again would be a good bonus.

 

[Craig Ward]

Not really.. its been a while since we have been outworked and outplayed through midfield. This was under Ten Hag.

No.. if we had Isaak in this team, we would score loads more goals.. because this team is not reliant on midfield as much, we have wing backs and 10's who should be creating not the CM.

Is that why Bruno is one of the best creators in the team and we are one of the worst teams in terms of missing big chances? or performing much lower than our xG?

Not really.. its been a while since we have been outworked and outplayed through midfield = This is literally us every game - we're abysmal through CM. We aren't anywhere near competitive enough through CM in any area or any metric.

We'd still be hopefully outplayed with Isak up top. Yes we'd score more because Isak is individually better than Hojlund - but we'd still allow teams to play through us and be completely passive. We'd still be overloaded and give up possession cheaply and Casemiro would still be walking in quicksand trying to track runners.

Sort the problems out rather than focusing on shiny new toys up front and we may have a chance at something next season.

 

[romufc]

Not really.. its been a while since we have been outworked and outplayed through midfield = This is literally us every game - we're abysmal through CM. We aren't anywhere near competitive enough through CM in any area or any metric.

We'd still be hopefully outplayed with Isak up top. Yes we'd score more because Isak is individually better than Hojlund - but we'd still allow teams to play through us and be completely passive. We'd still be overloaded and give up possession cheaply and Casemiro would still be walking in quicksand trying to track runners.

Sort the problems out rather than focusing on shiny new toys up front and we may have a chance at something next season.

Under Amorim, you think we have been the same to play against as Ten Hag?

If you think that... I will leave this debate here.

 

[Craig Ward]

Under Amorim, you think we have been the same to play against as Ten Hag?

If you think that... I will leave this debate here.

Do i think we are weak in CM under Amorin? Yes

Will we continue to be poor unless we sign better players in CM? Yes

Does our CM cost us games? Yes

Pretty clear it's a weak area of our team. Wake up

 

[romufc]

Do i think we are weak in CM under Amorin? Yes

Will we continue to be poor unless we sign better players in CM? Yes

Does our CM cost us games? Yes

Pretty clear it's a weak area of our team. Wake up

Oh right so you think our GK and St are not weak? Wake up.

 

[Craig Ward]

Oh right so you think our GK and St are not weak? Wake up.

I do think they could be improved upon. But your acting like CM isnt a major issue for us when it clearly is.

If we carry on with the same CM then expect similar results. Logical really

 

[DJ_21]

With the potential front 3 we could have. We’re jumping from 15th to 4th. The firepower will blow teams out

 

[Ezkay]

I do think they could be improved upon. But your acting like CM isnt a major issue for us when it clearly is.

If we carry on with the same CM then expect similar results. Logical really

Yep - seems a large section of the fanbase think Hojlund not scoring and Onana letting in goals every week was the reason we lost the EL final and finished 16th. Our midfield is very weak but to be fair Amorim's system isnt even reliant on a midfield. It's hoofball from the wingbacks/CB to the striker and hope he brings the ball down, then progress from there.

 

[romufc]

I do think they could be improved upon. But your acting like CM isnt a major issue for us when it clearly is.

If we carry on with the same CM then expect similar results. Logical really

I didn't say we dont need to improve, I said ST and GK are bigger priorities why?

We have signed 10's so Bruno will be more permanent in CM so its his partner we are looking for.

Ugarte is someone who can do that job with Casemiro for a season.

Mainoo will rotate with Bruno and we have Kone who can step up if Amorim feels he has something about him.

As a ST we have Hojlund and ZIrkzee only.

In goal both our keepers are as bad as each other.

 

[romufc]

we lost the EL

I mean Onana letting an easy goal diving in slow motion is the reason we lost the EL... add to that the stinker Hojlund put in and missing the chances.

 

[Ezkay]

I mean Onana letting an easy goal diving in slow motion is the reason we lost the EL... add to that the stinker Hojlund put in and missing the chances.

Or maybe the very little clear cut chances we could generate. Spurs also have a terrible keeper, and Solanke (better than Hoj) isn’t some world beater. Manager hasn’t got a scoobie.

 

[romufc]

Or maybe the very little clear cut chances we could generate. Spurs also have a terrible keeper, and Solanke (better than Hoj) isn’t some world beater. Manager hasn’t got a scoobie.

Yep Spurs have a terrible keeper and when he had a brain fart... our terrible striker fluffed his lines.

When our keeper had a brain fart.. the goal went in.

We will see next season, I can imagine if we play well, you wont give the manager any credit.

 

[Craig Ward]

I didn't say we dont need to improve, I said ST and GK are bigger priorities why?

We have signed 10's so Bruno will be more permanent in CM so its his partner we are looking for.

Ugarte is someone who can do that job with Casemiro for a season.

Mainoo will rotate with Bruno and we have Kone who can step up if Amorim feels he has something about him.

As a ST we have Hojlund and ZIrkzee only.

In goal both our keepers are as bad as each other.

So play the exact same combinations in midfield and expect different results yeah?

Casemiro needs to be sold. Bruno isn't a competent midfield, Mainoo is developing and Kone is untested. Our CM area is rank and needs major work if we want to control and dominate games

 

[romufc]

So play the exact same combinations in midfield and expect different results yeah?

Casemiro needs to be sold. Bruno isn't a competent midfield, Mainoo is developing and Kone is untested. Our CM area is rank and needs major work if we want to control and dominate games

You can have your opinions on Bruno and think he isn't competent.. but the reality is Amorim is going to play him there...

Just think about it... we are signing 2 10's... Bruno has spoken to the club and the manager and got assurances so he is playing. From evidence last season, Amorim wants him in CM.

We didn't dominate games because our forwards cannot hold the ball. You can have Vitinha and Fabian Ruiz in midfield... with players like Hojlund... it does not matter, the ball will be coming back.

Unless you want us to play sideways passes to each other so you can say we dominated the game?

 

[LordSpud]

Goosebumps. Bring it on

 

[Davo28]

Who said anything about hoof ball? Do you think there is only 2 ways of playing? Either go via CM's or hoof it and hope for forwards to chase?

On numerous occasions at the end of the season, we went long passes from Maguire or CB's to wing backs.

When you play Bruno in midfield, do you think he cannot progress the ball?

We could have Caceido and Macalister in our CM right now and it would make no difference... because when they pass the ball to Hojlund or Garnacho... the ball usually comes back.

Then when the ball comes back and we have Onana in goal.. players shoot from anywhere knowing he is a poor shot stoper.

Hoof ball might be a bit too crude, but you did say bypass the midfield from centre half into the forwards.

I just can’t see us spending 120m on Cunha and Mbeumo to then play long balls into them (they’ll be replacing Garnacho as you mentioned him). I’d also imagine putting in two of the leagues best cm’s would probably improve us as a team.

I don’t really see Bruno as the line breaking passing midfielder type to get us up the pitch. He’s more the risk taking, get himself into attacking areas when the ball is already there. Certainly not that Carrick type of midfielder I think we’re crying out for.

Agreed on Onana. Unfortunately I think we’re stuck with him for next season as the budgets not stretching as far as that on our priority list this summer.

 

[Banana Republic]

The old cliche that games are won and lost in midfield holds true more than ever these days.
The CM is the most important line of defence as well as the key to controlling games and being the foundation for creativity.

We’ve had a weak CM for a few seasons now, ignored by ETH and patched up by Amorim with the players he’s been left to play with.

Obviously lack of a prolific striker, or 2 strikers have been our biggest weakness in the last two seasons.
Despite having issues all over the pitch, we lost half our league game purely on not being able to score goals, rather than the other teams being better than us.
How many times did we have the best of a game and the most possession, but couldn’t score to save our lives and the opponents won by a smash and grab?
We weren’t anywhere near good enough to be challenging for the league title, or arguably a top 5 spot, but had we been able to actually put the ball in the net, we would have ended up in the top 8 this last season, not in 15th position.

However, a new striker or a new no.10 isn’t going to address our key weakness in CM and that has to be the other top priority.
We definitely need a better goalkeeper, but that shouldn’t be at the top of the list at the moment.
Despite his various howlers and failure to stop some “stoppable” shots, Onana’s stats were actually not bad at all.



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[Ventura]

Very optimistic about the season, I think we can beat relegation again without too much of a scare, anything beyond that will be a bonus!

 

[Stickz]

If we bring in Mbuemo (highly likely) and Gyokeres we are transformed in attack and that is a huge cause for optimism, obviously.

Our midfield is a mess though for this formation - I don’t see a single combo/pairing that can work. They’ll get overrun especially when Bruno starts there as he isn’t the most conducive to controlling the tempo.

Unless Ugarte explodes into a better all rounder or Mainoo downloads Kantes training regime it’s going to be an issue.

 

[Craig Ward]

You can have your opinions on Bruno and think he isn't competent.. but the reality is Amorim is going to play him there...

Just think about it... we are signing 2 10's... Bruno has spoken to the club and the manager and got assurances so he is playing. From evidence last season, Amorim wants him in CM.

We didn't dominate games because our forwards cannot hold the ball. You can have Vitinha and Fabian Ruiz in midfield... with players like Hojlund... it does not matter, the ball will be coming back.

Unless you want us to play sideways passes to each other so you can say we dominated the game?

I accept we are likely to see Bruno in CM for the foreseeable, which isn't great.

If we pair any one of Mainoo, Casemiro or Ugarte with him then we will always struggle there - that's based on what we have just witnessed this season. Games will pass us by with a weak CM - there will be too many gaps, added pressure on the defensive and a lack of cohesion between midfield and attack. We have to upgrade the CM options in my opinion - it's an absolute must

Hojlund has his faults but he can't be blamed for Casemiro not tracking runners and so forth. Half of the long balls we lumped to him last year any striker in the world would struggle with. That's a team issue for playing absolute horror long balls aimlessly to a "target man" who is never going to be that kind of player. Now if we had better CM's - the type that top teams have that take the ball from the CB's and are capable of playing through the lines then we look a different team. Hojlund doesn't look so crap, the gaps between our defence/midfield/attack is more fluid. We'd be a much better team overall with a better structure and harder to play against.

But your right - sign a new GK and our midfield will almost instantly be better

 

[romufc]

I accept we are likely to see Bruno in CM for the foreseeable, which isn't great.

If we pair any one of Mainoo, Casemiro or Ugarte with him then we will always struggle there - that's based on what we have just witnessed this season. Games will pass us by with a weak CM - there will be too many gaps, added pressure on the defensive and a lack of cohesion between midfield and attack. We have to upgrade the CM options in my opinion - it's an absolute must

Hojlund has his faults but he can't be blamed for Casemiro not tracking runners and so forth. Half of the long balls we lumped to him last year any striker in the world would struggle with. That's a team issue for playing absolute horror long balls aimlessly to a "target man" who is never going to be that kind of player. Now if we had better CM's - the type that top teams have that take the ball from the CB's and are capable of playing through the lines then we look a different team. Hojlund doesn't look so crap, the gaps between our defence/midfield/attack is more fluid. We'd be a much better team overall with a better structure and harder to play against.

But your right - sign a new GK and our midfield will almost instantly be better

I dont see why there should be an issue... most teams who are well drilled, don't have the best players playing in midfield.

I bet most people said that about Liverpool last season not having a DM, but nope, they dominated the midfield.

I am not saying we dont need a 6... its not a high priority for me as what a ST and GK is. Added pressure on the defence? I mean we have 5 at the back so, they should be able to deal with alot of the teams.

No.. I saw alot of times where the ball bounced up, Hojlund gives a handball, miscontrols it, plays a stupid pass, makes the wrong run.. its nothing to do with the balls into him. When Zirkzee played, we looked so much better on the ball, even though I dont rate him.

I know that we will instantly be better with a better ST and GK.

 

[lex talionis]

Those who are pessimistic about our chances of qualifying for Europe again should keep in mind that last season is the anomaly, not the norm. We're not going to win the PL next season -- and you can quote me on that! -- but if the deals that are on the table come through we should be in the top 5. We still have a dodgy keeper and Ugarte/Casemiro is still a concern, but our front line (if the deals come through, that is) will be substantially more lethal than it was last season and it was the front line above all else that failed us.

 

[Raoul]

Those who are pessimistic about our chances of qualifying for Europe again should keep in mind that last season is the anomaly, not the norm. We're not going to win the PL next season -- and you can quote me on that! -- but if the deals that are on the table come through we should be in the top 5. We still have a dodgy keeper and Ugarte/Casemiro is still a concern, but our front line (if the deals come through, that is) will be substantially more lethal than it was last season and it was the front line above all else that failed us.

Agreed. This year was an extreme outlier - a once in a 50 year anomaly that happened becuase of a perfect storm of events. I'm 99% sure we will be back in the top 4 mix next year.

 

[Beachryan]

My optimism is around a crazy thought: having better attackers will result in a better attack. I'm not sure how a different CF (or even the same one) can be worse next season. Garnacho was incredibly wasteful, probably missed a big, game-changing chance every other match. Half of those go in, we're probably half a dozen places higher. And of course Amad and Mount really didn't play enough. If we can really get both Cunha and Mbuemo, maybe an experienced striker I think we're a totally different beast next season.

Further, we basically played this whole season without a functional midfield - so we should be ready to do it again next year assuming no more signings.

I don't actually think our defense is that bad, but we need to be scoring a full extra goal per game.

 

[Craig Ward]

I dont see why there should be an issue... most teams who are well drilled, don't have the best players playing in midfield.

I bet most people said that about Liverpool last season not having a DM, but nope, they dominated the midfield.

I am not saying we dont need a 6... its not a high priority for me as what a ST and GK is. Added pressure on the defence? I mean we have 5 at the back so, they should be able to deal with alot of the teams.

No.. I saw alot of times where the ball bounced up, Hojlund gives a handball, miscontrols it, plays a stupid pass, makes the wrong run.. its nothing to do with the balls into him. When Zirkzee played, we looked so much better on the ball, even though I dont rate him.

I know that we will instantly be better with a better ST and GK.

We'd be instantly better with a better midfield too.

 

[TsuWave]

Not really.. its been a while since we have been outworked and outplayed through midfield

this is not true. unless by a "while" - you mean as recently as like a week before end of the season

 

[laughtersassassin]

Not optimistic yet but there is still a lot of time left in the window.

I'll be optimistic when if and when we sign Mbuemo, a starting Striker, and a new goalkeeper.

Ideally a midfielder as well.

If we don't get a new striker or a new goalkeeper then I will have zero optimism

 

[romufc]

We'd be instantly better with a better midfield too.

Yeah we actually would because we would have a keeper who can pass and defenders trust so they will be more confident.

When having better attackers, the ball is in our control longer.

It sounds like you think Bruno in midfield is some league 1 midfield.

 

[The Hilton]

I accept we are likely to see Bruno in CM for the foreseeable, which isn't great.

If we pair any one of Mainoo, Casemiro or Ugarte with him then we will always struggle there - that's based on what we have just witnessed this season. Games will pass us by with a weak CM - there will be too many gaps, added pressure on the defensive and a lack of cohesion between midfield and attack. We have to upgrade the CM options in my opinion - it's an absolute must

Hojlund has his faults but he can't be blamed for Casemiro not tracking runners and so forth. Half of the long balls we lumped to him last year any striker in the world would struggle with. That's a team issue for playing absolute horror long balls aimlessly to a "target man" who is never going to be that kind of player. Now if we had better CM's - the type that top teams have that take the ball from the CB's and are capable of playing through the lines then we look a different team. Hojlund doesn't look so crap, the gaps between our defence/midfield/attack is more fluid. We'd be a much better team overall with a better structure and harder to play against.

But your right - sign a new GK and our midfield will almost instantly be better

I agree with you that CM is definitely a weakness, but unfortunately we've got a few glaring weaknesses across the first team and we don't have the budget to fix all of them at once.

Goalscoring has come first, rightly so, because without it we'll never win matches. It's also worth keeping in mind that, with forward players who can hold on to the ball and hurt teams with pace and running in behind, opposition teams won't be able to press us as high without worrying about us getting back at them, which will ease the pressure on our midfield and defence.

I'd personally have replacing Casemiro with an athletic progressive passer as our next highest priority, but I totally understand why we've gone for 2 of the best goalscorers in the league as our initial signings. That alone will make a huge difference to our results.

 

[OnceRedAlwaysRed]

Optimist says: "If we can sign Gyökeres and Mbeumo, with Cunha and a good keeper we'll improve a lot, we can go up to 4-5th even".
Pessimist says:"Gyökeres had never scored a single goal in a top league, Mbeumo had only one good season so far, Amorim is a totally inflexible coach who cannot adapt so I'd be happy if we could reach 7th place to play in Europe.".

You have the right to chose.

 

[JediSith]

If we get the signings right I’m optimistic. I think Bruno not being sold, worse if he is shoehorned into the CM spot, will be a mistake that more and more will start agreeing with as the season progresses.

 

[Brand Nubian]

Looks like new attack signigns freely scoring goals, just after the 4:3 win talk to Onana in the showers that he should have done better.

But it doesnt mater: If you score more than opposition then Onana cant be questioned.

 

[Dr. T]

I'm not sure how much things change if we continue to play out laterally from the back to one-footed wing backs, facing their own goal, turning further backwards because they can't use their other foot, before coughing up possession in our 3rd of the pitch.

 

[romufc]

I'm not sure how much things change if we continue to play out laterally from the back to one-footed wing backs, facing their own goal, turning further backwards because they can't use their other foot, before coughing up possession in our 3rd of the pitch.

Things change when you buy forwards who instead of coughing up possession are able to hold it, pass it and run of the defender.

Something Cunha is very good at.

 

[Banana Republic]

Maybe we hold fire on the optimism until later in the summer transfer window.
It all looked promising on day 1 when the window opened with Cunha signing and strong talk about Mbeumo joining too, but it has all gone flat.
As suspected was going to happen, reports are coming out that Spurs are having initial talks with Brentford over Mbeumo and United look to be backing away from a possible move for Gyokores, based on the likely price.

So after the first 2 weeks since the window opened, we’ve signed just 1 player and there’s no strong reporting on any offers for the players we are trying to move on.
Our squad is little changed apart from Cunha coming in and Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans leaving.

Meanwhile City have signed 5 players in that time and Liverpool have signed 4, with a couple more expected after the window reopens next week.


.

 

[OnceRedAlwaysRed]

Our squad is little changed apart from Cunha coming in and Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans leaving.

Meanwhile City have signed 5 players in that time and Liverpool have signed 4, with a couple more expected after the window reopens next week.

Worrying for sure. Apparently Spurs is in talks with Brentford about Mbeumo, he might follow Frank to London. I wouldn't be surprised to be fair. Rumours appeared about Arsenal and Gyökeres too. I really don't know what's gonna happen but up until now we don't have even the smallest reason to be optimistic.

 

[romufc]

Worrying for sure. Apparently Spurs is in talks with Brentford about Mbeumo, he might follow Frank to London. I wouldn't be surprised to be fair. Rumours appeared about Arsenal and Gyökeres too. I really don't know what's gonna happen but up until now we don't have even the smallest reason to be optimistic.

So you think last week when it was announced Mbuemo wants United, he didn't have a chat with Frank about him going to Spurs?

It was such a bit secret that Spurs want Mbuemo right? Spurs wanted him before anyway, do you think in their sales pitch, they didn't mention we could get Frank as manager?

So what about Gyokeres.... we dont want to overpay for players, if Sporting want something we dont want to pay move on...

 

[laughtersassassin]

With currently only Cunha in there is zero reason for optimism right now.

We are 3-4 signings away from having any real reason for optimism

 

[V.O.]

It's mid June, lads.

 

[OnceRedAlwaysRed]

So you think last week when it was announced Mbuemo wants United, he didn't have a chat with Frank about him going to Spurs?

It was such a bit secret that Spurs want Mbuemo right? Spurs wanted him before anyway, do you think in their sales pitch, they didn't mention we could get Frank as manager?

So what about Gyokeres.... we dont want to overpay for players, if Sporting want something we dont want to pay move on...

I browsed the net to find the proof for this "Mbeumo wants United" rumour. Apparently a journalist told this to the media, and all the other sources are based on this. So basically everything comes from one guy? I don't see this as a proof that Mbeumo REALLY wants to play for us but maybe i missed something. Honestly, if i was a well sought after player and i should chose between Tottenham and United, would be a tough decision. What United can offer at the moment isn't much. Poor squad, messy leadership, questionable coach, poor results, no CL. Tottenham at least can offer a better leadership and CL football. And for an ambitious, motivated player CL football can be an important factor. And on the other hand, we have to sign forwards soon. As a striker, basically two class players available, Gyökeres and Osimhen. If we won't get any of those 2, then comes the plan B, Jonathan David or whoever, but those aren't that good so we'll be already behind. We should hurry up or the next season will be a mess too.