OT EVACUATED | Device signed as having been recovered, could NOT be detected by sniffer dogs

Brophs

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A lot of perfectionists here. The stadium was checked by sniffer dogs by United, nothing was found because there was no chemicals to detect.

It's not crazy to expect people to do their jobs you know. Especially when they sign off on it.
There's a lot still unknown about all of this, but if, for example, it becomes apparent that a cursory visual inspection would have revealed the device then it's not being a perfectionist to expect someone on behalf of the club to do that, it's just expecting them to adhere to their duty of care to the public generally.
 

JustAFan

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Didn't that kind of thought process get us in this mess.

It's a simple question, why wouldn't you check someone had cleared their shit up, or at least have a plan of what they were doing.

Clueless.
It seems the club was presented with documentation stating they had taken all devices away. I worked at a pretty large manufacturing plant and I can tell you not all subcontractors were followed around, watched over and double checked on when they were done. Heck we outsourced our security department and did not hire people to watch over them. For some things, the subcontractors had every day access to areas of the plant with no employee following them around at all.
 

mu4c_20le

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It's just two times human error

First human error - Device was forgotten about
Second human error - Device was not discovered in checks.

In future: GPS Tracking on all similar devices, a unique identifying code so that if they are discovered, staff can quickly establish it's just a fake, and obviously more god damned checks.
Or they could just learn to account for their toys at the end of a training session. Someone's head will roll because of this and rightfully so. The GPS suggestion is alright but since it will multiply costs it will never be adopted.
 

rcoobc

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Or they could just learn to account for their toys at the end of a training session. Someone's head will roll because of this and rightfully so. The GPS suggestion is alright but since it will multiply costs it will never be adopted.
Mate, the costs of a GPS tracker are like £100.

Honestly. I will provide and service the GPS trackers for £150 each per annum (10 tracker minimum contract). Not sure how they will work deep in a building though, but I'll find a way.
 

Zebs

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What's emerged today then? I see some folk still trying to say this isn't an embarrassment. Amazingly.
Oh nothing much. Just the club being absolved of any blame. Do keep up.
 

SammyUnited_83

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It seems the club was presented with documentation stating they had taken all devices away. I worked at a pretty large manufacturing plant and I can tell you not all subcontractors were followed around, watched over and double checked on when they were done. Heck we outsourced our security department and did not hire people to watch over them. For some things, the subcontractors had every day access to areas of the plant with no employee following them around at all.
I appreciate that.

However we let a company in with fake bombs, 5 days before a game where 70,000 people would be attending. Just taking someone's word that they had removed the devices isn't good enough for me. Yes, the main responsibility lies with the security company, but I just don't understand how people can't see that the club were to blame, to some extent.

If you were the stadium security manager at Old Trafford, wouldn't you want to check that the fake bombs had been removed? Why leave these things to chance...
 

SammyUnited_83

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But who checks that the person who checked did it right?
At one point in the past rio ferdinand mentioned we have a pr team that would check some of his tweets. Call me crazy but perhaps we should have resources in place where someone would check that fake bombs had been removed from the stadium.
 

Shamwow

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At one point in the past rio ferdinand mentioned we have a pr team that would check some of his tweets. Call me crazy but perhaps we should have resources in place where someone would check that fake bombs had been removed from the stadium.
Yeah that's what the counter terrorism expert in charge of the drill was meant to do.
 

Sandikan

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There'll be no one there.
Will be interesting to see how full it is.

in the circumstances anywhere near 50,000 would be very impressive.

Not sure what our locals v distance travellers percentage make up is like. Still has to be a fairly decent percentage of locals surely.
 

Sandikan

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At one point in the past rio ferdinand mentioned we have a pr team that would check some of his tweets. Call me crazy but perhaps we should have resources in place where someone would check that fake bombs had been removed from the stadium.
Did they forget to the countless times he's been ticked off? Stuff like the "choc ice" laughter and others?
 

JustAFan

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I appreciate that.

However we let a company in with fake bombs, 5 days before a game where 70,000 people would be attending. Just taking someone's word that they had removed the devices isn't good enough for me. Yes, the main responsibility lies with the security company, but I just don't understand how people can't see that the club were to blame, to some extent.

If you were the stadium security manager at Old Trafford, wouldn't you want to check that the fake bombs had been removed? Why leave these things to chance...
On the other hand, how often has this sort of thing happened? Had this company ever run a similar test at OT or other places before and not had any issues? Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I don't think in all the scenarios any of us ever imagined happening that any of us would have thought up this one.
 

rimaldo

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There's a lot still unknown about all of this, but if, for example, it becomes apparent that a cursory visual inspection would have revealed the device then it's not being a perfectionist to expect someone on behalf of the club to do that, it's just expecting them to adhere to their duty of care to the public generally.
to be fair, i heard barb from accounting, known as the joker of the office, did report that there was a depth charge set in the shitter but everyone laughed it off as another one of her 11 o'clock room clearers.
 

JustAFan

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At one point in the past rio ferdinand mentioned we have a pr team that would check some of his tweets. Call me crazy but perhaps we should have resources in place where someone would check that fake bombs had been removed from the stadium.
WE will now, but honestly can you really imagine having a "Fake Bomb Removal Checker" on staff prior to Sunday's game? I bet no such position exists on any stadium staff anyplace in the world.
 

Sandikan

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I appreciate that.

However we let a company in with fake bombs, 5 days before a game where 70,000 people would be attending. Just taking someone's word that they had removed the devices isn't good enough for me. Yes, the main responsibility lies with the security company, but I just don't understand how people can't see that the club were to blame, to some extent.

If you were the stadium security manager at Old Trafford, wouldn't you want to check that the fake bombs had been removed? Why leave these things to chance...
Does seem a strange time to do the test. Surely you'd do it early on in the season, or in the months of summer.

But then no one could forsee such nonsense as this.

Was chuckling, in a sort of gallows humour way (as it's not funny in the slightest the whole mess), when someone said about how some poor chap sat down for a turd, and was faced directly with this dodgy looking, supposed "Bomb" staring at him.
Would have rushed proceedings along!
 

JustAFan

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There's a lot still unknown about all of this, but if, for example, it becomes apparent that a cursory visual inspection would have revealed the device then it's not being a perfectionist to expect someone on behalf of the club to do that, it's just expecting them to adhere to their duty of care to the public generally.

Yeah if we find out the device was attached in open view with a big sign pointing to it, it will look bad. If it was decently hidden, well we might understand it being missed. Also, was it the first match goer into the bathroom who noticed it or the 100th? How much of a fluke was it that anyone saw it? If it was one of the first few people in, then questions arise. If it was number 100 and he/she only saw it because of a chance glance in the right direction, different issue.

It is worth some laughter at the company and club. It sucks for all those match goers and there should be more compensation coming their way (and probably will be).

In the future any training events will be handled differently just to prevent a repeat, no matter how well hidden or not the device was.
 

Rory 7

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Sub-contractors, signed documents or not, the fact remains we opened our doors with a suspect device inside that none of our pre-game checks spotted. I find that mad. And also slightly sobering. Thankfully it wasn't real.
 

JustAFan

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Does seem a strange time to do the test. Surely you'd do it early on in the season, or in the months of summer.

But then no one could forsee such nonsense as this.

Was chuckling, in a sort of gallows humour way (as it's not funny in the slightest the whole mess), when someone said about how some poor chap sat down for a turd, and was faced directly with this dodgy looking, supposed "Bomb" staring at him.
Would have rushed proceedings along!
Yeah I think this is a pretty important point. Any leadership does try to envision any and all scenario's but I am not sure anyone would have thought this one up.

Do the walls between stalls at OT go all the way to the floor or are there spaces at the bottom, maybe the guy who found it was just trying to sneak a peak at his neighbor and got more than he bargained for. :eek:
 

Sandikan

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Yeah I think this is a pretty important point. Any leadership does try to envision any and all scenario's but I am not sure anyone would have thought this one up.

Do the walls between stalls at OT go all the way to the floor or are there spaces at the bottom, maybe the guy who found it was just trying to sneak a peak at his neighbor and got more than he bargained for. :eek:
pretty sure there's room underneath.

It's funny, most times people make mistakes, it's pretty minor. I made one today, absent mindedly sending one supplier an email with a few sales of another supplier's products. Cue very quick "recall", and no problem!

THIS mistake, wow, cost 76,000 their day, ruined Sky's live game, and any sort of last day drama in the only real "key" thing to be decided (not counting the north London squabble over runners up), and millions of people wanting to watch United.
ANd clearly the £3m bill United have had to take (or at least the insurers) to recompense everyone!
 

sullydnl

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Yeah I think this is a pretty important point. Any leadership does try to envision any and all scenario's but I am not sure anyone would have thought this one up.

Do the walls between stalls at OT go all the way to the floor or are there spaces at the bottom, maybe the guy who found it was just trying to sneak a peak at his neighbor and got more than he bargained for. :eek:
Is it really that unlikely? I mean if you allow people to plant fake bombs around Old Trafford four days before a match then surely you consider the possibility that something like this might happen?
 

JustAFan

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pretty sure there's room underneath.

It's funny, most times people make mistakes, it's pretty minor. I made one today, absent mindedly sending one supplier an email with a few sales of another supplier's products. Cue very quick "recall", and no problem!

THIS mistake, wow, cost 76,000 their day, ruined Sky's live game, and any sort of last day drama in the only real "key" thing to be decided (not counting the north London squabble over runners up), and millions of people wanting to watch United.
ANd clearly the £3m bill United have had to take (or at least the insurers) to recompense everyone!
As mistakes go, this one is pretty costly.
 

Sandikan

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As mistakes go, this one is pretty costly.
There was a quality thread in general on here, that some guy admitted to some mental behaviour, of smashing some pipe or something in the toilet, that eventually cost his company something like £1m to fix, as there was some huge issues caused by it.

That was pretty special, but this makes that look small time!
 

Sandikan

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Is it really that unlikely? I mean if you allow people to plant fake bombs around Old Trafford four days before a match then surely you consider the possibility that something like this might happen?
I had a run with a running club once in the woods, and the leader had set a little challenge for us. He hit some white t shirts in random places, and drew us maps of the rough locations.
We didn't find 3 of the t shirts...they're probably still out there.

That was a sh!Thouse little running group in darkening woods...

this was a bloody pro training outfit. You'd think as they didn't plant 20,000 fakes that they could remember where they'd put them, and account for them.
Rather than some twat just ticking the box..."yeah we found them all, don't worry"
 

Red Defence

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WE will now, but honestly can you really imagine having a "Fake Bomb Removal Checker" on staff prior to Sunday's game? I bet no such position exists on any stadium staff anyplace in the world.
It's not difficult. Training supervisor arrives with fake bombs and places them in suitable places (hopefully with OT head of security working alongside him) and records where he has put them. At the end of the training session the same person removes the bombs and checks that there are all there. If he has arrived at OT with 30 then he should leave with 30. I would have naturally expected them to follow such a simple protocol in the first place.
 

starman

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Ed said:
We could not have assumed it was a training exercise error," said United's executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward.
I am sorry but this is bull. If they had a training exercise on the Wednesday and knew of the devices and knew where they were being planted, you would have thought one of the bright minds running OT would have come up with the conclusion it could have been a error?

And from its discovery, right through to the evacuation of the stadium, no one would have thought to call the security firm to confirm?
 

Rory 7

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It's not difficult. Training supervisor arrives with fake bombs and places them in suitable places (hopefully with OT head of security working alongside him) and at the end of the training session the same person removes the bombs and checks that there are all there. If he has arrived at OT with 30 then he should leave with 30. I would have naturally expected them to follow such a simple protocol in the first place.
It really should be that simple. I agree.
 

JustAFan

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It's not difficult. Training supervisor arrives with fake bombs and places them in suitable places (hopefully with OT head of security working alongside him) and at the end of the training session the same person removes the bombs and checks that there are all there. If he has arrived at OT with 30 then he should leave with 30. I would have naturally expected them to follow such a simple protocol in the first place.
It seems the club expected this also, since some reports are quoting Woodie as saying the club was told and presented with paper work that all the devices had been accounted for and removed.
 

sullydnl

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How often has you heard of it happening BEFORE Sunday?
Exactly as often as I had heard of us allowing people to plant fake bombs before a game.

I mean common sense suggest that human error could see something go wrong. Like somebody said earlier in the thread, surgeons leave things behind in people sometimes too. It's not *that* unlikely that someone fecks up.
 

rimaldo

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At one point in the past rio ferdinand mentioned we have a pr team that would check some of his tweets. Call me crazy but perhaps we should have resources in place where someone would check that fake bombs had been removed from the stadium.
i'm not sure how much such a person would get paid but if it was me i'd probably want a shit load for approaching a bomb and giving it a little prod and a wire wiggle to check if it was real or not.
 

Sandikan

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yet he dubs it 'an overreaction'.
One question, if it was just a "Training exercise", why did they create something that could be mistaken for a bomb anyway?

It's a token substitute, so why not use some harmless looking thing that wouldn't cause any alarm if it was found!
 

Rory 7

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I am sorry but this is bull. If they had a training exercise on the Wednesday and knew of the devices and knew where they were being planted, you would have thought one of the bright minds running OT would have come up with the conclusion it could have been a error? And from its discovery, right through to the evacuation of the stadium, no one would have thought to call the security firm to confirm?
I agree with this too. Which then would lead you to ask, was it a fake? Is the real truth being kept from the public to avoid panic?
 

MadDogg

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There's a lot still unknown about all of this, but if, for example, it becomes apparent that a cursory visual inspection would have revealed the device then it's not being a perfectionist to expect someone on behalf of the club to do that, it's just expecting them to adhere to their duty of care to the public generally.
Absolutely. Alternatively, as far as we know, the 'bomb' could have been placed in a fairly hidden spot, and was only found because the guy dropped something near it and bent down to pick it up.
 

redtilded121

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Is it really that unlikely? I mean if you allow people to plant fake bombs around Old Trafford four days before a match then surely you consider the possibility that something like this might happen?
you might think of it as a joke as in 'yea you can use the stadium as long as you don't leaves a bomb behind' but you would never consider it a realistic possibility.
 

Smores

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I am sorry but this is bull. If they had a training exercise on the Wednesday and knew of the devices and knew where they were being planted, you would have thought one of the bright minds running OT would have come up with the conclusion it could have been a error?

And from its discovery, right through to the evacuation of the stadium, no one would have thought to call the security firm to confirm?
They couldn't take that risk though and rightfully so.

What I don't get is that they knew they were going to hide bombs and didn't think to ask where and double check but I'm sure they will from now on :lol: You can imagine the site manager or whoever joking "don't leave one of those behind eh "

There's plenty of errors that happen because of poor procedures up and down the country to be fair, happens at banks often enough we're just unlucky it's made us look like fecking divs in front of everyone.
 

Smores

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I like that picture as the warning that it's a prop is clearly on the fecking back lol
 

Red Defence

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It seems the club expected this also, since some reports are quoting Woodie as saying the club was told and presented with paper work that all the devices had been accounted for and removed.
Really! Well if that's true then it can only have been a real bomb threat. Maybe that's why Sky's commentators were "patted down" as they entered OT. They did say that it had never happened before. Maybe OT got a "warning" of a bomb before the match but they have chosen to pretend otherwise.

(Sorry if all this has been said, I haven't read all the thread).
 

SammyUnited_83

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i'm not sure how much such a person would get paid but if it was me i'd probably want a shit load for approaching a bomb and giving it a little prod and a wire wiggle to check if it was real or not.
That person would know they were fake.
 

Im red2

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Someone cannot count, or is too easy going in their job. Before you hand these things(articial bombs) out you need to count how many you have handed out. And if you do not get the same amount back then one (or more)of the mudderfeckers is still missing, and could be mistaken for a real bomb shortly before a major match.. OK?