Our attack

Teja

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
 

georgipep

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
There is zero synchron between Ronaldo and the two wingers. Ronaldo drops deep without it being useful, then starts throwing his arms in the air when the others don't read his mind.

Difficult to play cohesive attacking football with him in front. Watch how Bruno is contained within himself because Ronaldo both drops deep and demands the final ball.
 

Leftback99

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Hard to tell but one thing for sure is that whatever we're currently doing creates very little.
 

Borys

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I thought we will stick Ronaldo up front and use wingers to throw crosses at him. We are doing something completely opposite - Ronaldo is dropping deep (?) and wingers are staying wide to make space for Bruno and fullbacks (?).
Doesn't seem like paying to our strengths but can't complain much after this result.

I hope we keep Ronaldo away from the middle of the park though, he is a liability there.
 

bosnian_red

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Too small of sample size, too early in the development of our team with Ten Hag, lacking Martial who is the only striker we have who is capable of playing that role the way Ten Hag wants for us. With Rashford, we play a different way to take advantage of his pace in behind. With Ronaldo, every single play is breaking apart at his feet as he's too old and his agility has fallen off a quick which tends to happen the closer you get to 40.

We get in good positions, we overload the wide areas well to then switch it to a man free on the other side. A striker like Martial will make an enormous difference. But also, importantly, just been such a small sample size of very different games while we are just building confidence at the start of Ten Hag's time here.
 

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
I really hope I'm going to read some insightful replies here. Especially from Ajax supporters. Is it down to tactics or player deficiencies?
 

Shai-Hulud

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We should have signed a striker. Almost anyone would have been an improvement over Ronaldo.

Can't wait for Martial to return.

Antony looking overpriced by 2x as we predicted.
 

bond19821982

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OP conveniently forgets that we don't have a striker. Get Martial in and you will see the difference. But it's not going to happen regularly with his injuries.

This season is a transition one. I would take a steady improvement over the period of season above everything.
 

Boondog

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We are a defensive team right now and will be until they get a few needed pieces. We'll be shitty in buildup until we add a keeper who can play the ball. And from there we need a ball carrier in the midfield and a striker with some presence in the box.

There is zero synchron between Ronaldo and the two wingers. Ronaldo drops deep without it being useful, then starts throwing his arms in the air when the others don't read his mind.

Difficult to play cohesive attacking football with him in front. Watch how Bruno is contained within himself because Ronaldo both drops deep and demands the final ball.
Yeah he is out of synch with everyone, though tonight was a little better. Main problem with Ronaldo is his legs are gone which affects his runs as well as his defense. Once he's actually in the box with the ball coming in he is still dangerous, problem has been his lack of quickness means he's always got a defender on him and also he hasn't had good bounces.

Either way best option is they get him integrated with the others and scoring.
 

DWelbz19

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Just wait on it. Martial’s the glue. Even though he’s made of that same material.
 

honirelandboy

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Our team just isn’t good enough simple as that. Midfield is still crap, full backs are pretty average in Dalot and Malacia, have a 38 year old up front, no world class passes out to the wingers from midfield, no intrigue play between players. We are simply not that good. I’m hoping Martial can link it all up and make us tick as we need something badly.
 

Wheato

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I think we have real attacking strength down both sides and through the middle. Bruno and Erikson can play the passes. But as you say, there is a problem with Ronaldo. His game is way off ATM. Maybe because he had no pre-season, but his touch is way off. He is trying to force it and is taking up positions that aren't helpful. If he just played off the shoulder off the last defender, and attacked crosses or ran onto through balls then he would be more of a danger, and would probably bag a few goals. The best thing for him tonight was getting more minutes for his fitness and a goal for his confidence.
 

tomaldinho1

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I think it’s coming together.

If we think through some of the goals we’ve scored this season, we never ever used to score goals like the Sancho one tonight or versus Liverpool. It’s going to take time and at least another window given it’s very clear Ronaldo isn’t up to it anymore and even his finishing seems off now (think of how glorious that team goal would would have been when we pinged it around in their box and it was laid off to him only to sky it, also he’d have taken the shot first time when he tried to get penalty).
 

BigDycheEnergy

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It's my impression that the attack typically is the last piece of the puzzle for possession-based managers. Once the defense and midfield runs smoothly, the amount of goals is essentially down to the quality of the attackers. Whether they are good enough remains to be seen, but I certainly like what I see from the defense and midfield so far.
 

Lost bear

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I thought we will stick Ronaldo up front and use wingers to throw crosses at him. We are doing something completely opposite - Ronaldo is dropping deep (?) and wingers are staying wide to make space for Bruno and fullbacks (?).
Doesn't seem like paying to our strengths but can't complain much after this result.

I hope we keep Ronaldo away from the middle of the park though, he is a liability there.
Yes. Ronaldo now severely lacking in mobility and his attitude is poor too. His massive ego has become a liability in that his focus is always on himself scoring, and he has little awareness of or interest in those around him (his 'team mates'). I say this as someone who believes that Ronaldo was one of the best ever players.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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I thought we will stick Ronaldo up front and use wingers to throw crosses at him. We are doing something completely opposite - Ronaldo is dropping deep (?) and wingers are staying wide to make space for Bruno and fullbacks (?).
Doesn't seem like paying to our strengths but can't complain much after this result.

I hope we keep Ronaldo away from the middle of the park though, he is a liability there.
It’s mainly because ETH’s system wants the striker to be able to drop deep. It’s why he loved Martial so much when he was fit, as he’s excellent in this role. Ronaldo (and Rashford but he at least offers a threat in behind) is basically a net negative on anything outside of the opposition box.

I also think it’s September and we are basically a month into the season with a new manager, and attacking cohesion is much more difficult to coach and instill than defensive structure, pressing, and building from the back.
 

Mwooyo

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
I think the main thing is to understand the type of strikers martial and ronaldo are...where each thrives and what ten hags system needs.

So old ronaldo is a slow striker who likes to drop deep and participate in the play. He is most effective against teams that sit back and camp in the box because he can head and finish without really busting a gut pressing players etc. Its not that he isnt fit...its that he has lost yards of pace and he is no longer explosive. That means that defenders can now keep up with him easily.

Martial is kind of the opposite, he presses, he holds up and links play but from much further up the pitch and most importantly, he has pace to run in behind. He is most effective against teams that defend from the half way line. He wrecks havoc becoz of his great touch and his running in behind in addition to linking play. His main problem is keeping fit and mentally standing up to competition for his place in the team.

Ten hags system needs a martial as the main striker with ronaldo coming off the bench against stubborn teams that are sitting deep. The striker needs to be able to press and link up, in addition to running in behind...all things martial is great at. In addition our wingers are not the traditional beat your man kind of players...they thrive when they have someone to play off of, something martial is great at. They need a pass and move striker which martial does while ronaldo is a pass and stand striker...he can linkup other players but he rarely is the one doing the running to drag defenders out of position such that our wingers like sancho and anthony can move into the vacated space.

The combination of everything above means we may only truly judge the team when martial is back and fully fit. Right now with ronaldo we look slow and lethargic simply because he is the wrong striker for the types of teams we are facing now. There will come games for ronaldo but those goes are not now.
 
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Borys

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It’s mainly because ETH’s system wants the striker to be able to drop deep. It’s why he loved Martial so much when he was fit, as he’s excellent in this role. Ronaldo (and Rashford but he at least offers a threat in behind) is basically a net negative on anything outside of the opposition box.

I also think it’s September and we are basically a month into the season with a new manager, and attacking cohesion is much more difficult to coach and instill than defensive structure, pressing, and building from the back.
Well seems like Ronaldo dropping deep is another "we don't have a connector so let's play Fred there" kind of experiment. It just won't work with him in that role. I firmly believe it would be better to put him in the box and throw crosses at him. We had at least 4 players who can deliver a good cross, and Heading the ball is literally the only this Ronaldo is good at.

We won the game despite Ronaldo. He tries, it simply isn't working. This way of playing will be effective with Martial though.
 

NZT-One

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
I think, there are two factors in play:
a) ETH is creating some sort of organisation to shore up the defence (much like RR did when he arrived), after all, a solid defense is always a good point to start from. When it can be combined with a counter attacking play style to get goals, even better, but we are already seeing opponents adapting to us, today was the 2nd game, where Eriksen has been cut off from balls into him. He still has the ability to influence the game to a degree but better teams will be more effective in that.

b) We are seeing more courage to make use of passes. Which is something we lacked since forever. There are instances in matches, where we are looking like a modern football team already. I think, the more the players will know each other, trust each other, understand their roles better, the automatisms will improve which will result in a higher tempo. Once this is there, we will challenge opponents defensive organisation more, provoking mistakes and so on.

I think, ETHs Ajax attacked relatively conservative. Making use of wide players creating width, stretching the opponent and have capable players all over the pitch to make use of this space. He also used relatively powerful strikers to bring others into play, something only Martial would be able to do in our team, if any.

We are much more fluid with rashford or even martial upfront.
I don't see that to be honest. What Rashford gives us is runs in behind which is great in games we are sitting back inviting pressure. If teams do us this favor, like Pool or Arsenal recently, then Rashford can excel on the end of long balls. If that isn't the case, I don't think, we are more or less fluid at all.
 

RuudTom83

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In what feels like no time at all ETH has got the team very solid, defence is providing a good foundation!

The next step is attacking cohesion and I have no doubt it will come...it will just take time. But winning 1-0 is a great habit to get into while the attacking side develops.

But the team does lack a player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal...that would be the only concern I would have for the immediate future.
 

Dominos

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It's still the biggest concern.

Even if we discount the opening 2 games, there's been a real lack of attacking cohesion and creativity against Southampton, Leicester, Sociedad and Sherif. We've seen the same pattern both when Ronaldo is on the bench and on the pitch so don't think it's fair to place all the blame at his feet. We've only really looked strong in attack when Arsenal/Liverpool have come at us and left us space in behind to exploit which we won't benefit from in most games we play.

One issue is still our wide players being too passive. They need to be taking more risks 1v1 and driving into the opposition box rather than slowing play down and passing it back to recycle. We're also not utilising overlapping fullbacks very often.
 

pogbasformerbarber

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I actually think Ronaldo will adjust as the season goes on. Also...to be fair...hes missed some absolute gimmies the last few weeks (that if he'd made...which he typically has...we'd view him much less harshly), so it's not all poor positioning. If he can't cure that he's truly cooked though. I still have hope its some early season yips. The idea that Anthony Martial is better in the role is hilarious to me. Ronaldo actually seemed to improve the attack for a few of the games that he came on as a sub before Europa, so this is not a black and white thing IMHO. New systems take time to properly implement and its still early FFS.

That said...It's crazy to think how truly transformative a player like Haaland would be with our wingers...who I think have been quite good recently.
 
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SirScholes

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What exactly is our plan in attack? Right now I just see our players putting in some hopeful crosses towards one guy in the box and hoping something would happen (a poor clearance, a defensive error, a high turnovers from the press etc.). The City style cutback after cutback after a run from the half space is notably absent in our play. We're more Liverpool without Mane / Salah than City in terms of attacking play right now.

xG stats back it up so far. Despite the wins in the league, we've created fewer xG than teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and Brighton. (9th in the xG table).

Sancho and Antony manage to get a few 1v1s a game against the opposition fullback but we don't really overload the box so they just cut in and play it back into the middle. It's unclear that they'll have any options if they chose to go outside and try to put a cross in. Again no runners from the midfield half space so Sancho looks pretty ineffective.

I'm just really surprised because the blueprint is so clear with the rest of the team. How did Ajax typically create chances?
You are aware that pep and klopp have been at their clubs for years right?
not Just the summer?
 

M16Red

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We get in good positions, we overload the wide areas well to then switch it to a man free on the other side. A striker like Martial will make an enormous difference. But also, importantly, just been such a small sample size of very different games while we are just building confidence at the start of Ten Hag's time here.
This 100%, that was the way we played today.

There was also the reverse playing as well, coming all the way back out of the attacking side to pull the oppositions side to side.

Encouraging was the movement in the middle, as soon as "the pointer" came on, the composure was lost almost instantly.

But all in all, we look like a team not individuals. Once the passing speed picks up we'll look a lot better IMO.
 

Waynne

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We should have signed a striker. Almost anyone would have been an improvement over Ronaldo.

Can't wait for Martial to return.

Antony looking overpriced by 2x as we predicted.
3 games in?
New country
New league

Did you expect him to tear it up right off the bat like he's been doing at Ajax the past few years?
 

Dominos

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Is there an attack anywhere on the planet that would look good with 37 year old Cristiano Ronaldo leading the line? And I say leading the line in the loosest possible sense. Seeing as he seems to think he can play in midfield whenever he gets bored.
To be fair, Brighton Leicester and Southampton were hardly glorious attacking performances with Ronaldo not starting any of them.

The narrative after Leicester and Arsenal game seemed to be we actually improved after he came off the bench also.
 

TempusFugit

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We will look much more fluid with Martial back. He's just a much better option than current Ronaldo. He has a decent turn of pace, he's quite strong and the ball sticks to him quite well. Ten Hag needs to get him match ready during this break, we'll need him to get a result at the Etihad.
 

joedirt87

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Is there an attack anywhere on the planet that would look good with 37 year old Cristiano Ronaldo leading the line? And I say leading the line in the loosest possible sense. Seeing as he seems to think he can play in midfield whenever he gets bored.
Don't forget the tricky flick that none of his teammates are expecting which results in losing possession immediately.
 

tjb

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The problem here comes from fans thinking football is football manager.

If you watch other teams consistently, as much as they have certain ways of attacking, it's nowhere near as fluid and consistent as people here seem to think it is. Liverpool don't always have narrow combinations or Trent/Robertson bombarding the box with crosses throughout the game. City don't generate endless cutbacks. If you watch enough of their games, they have a few chances that are consistent, but for the most part, attacking is about chance and the opportunities the opposition gives you. Far more individual and player controlled than fans like to think it is.

United actually have consistent plays we do in attack.
In our build up and attacks we play in tight clusters, usually on one side of the pitch.
We like to overload from the flanks, not necessarily with the fullbacks, but also midfielders and attackers.
We like to play around the opposition, rather than through them.

Our play on the ball is actually pretty good at the moment.
The problems so far are:
1. Ronaldo/ Rashford have struggled up front connecting play
2. Despite pressing well, our ball recovery is still not sharp yet. So teams can still escape our press despite us actually using good shape and energy, this is something that will come with time.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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We sometimes lack urgency in the final 3rd, but Ronaldo is such a huge problem.

He just offers nothing and some players in our team(Bruno) seek him out when the pass isn't on.

There's some nice bits here and there, but we still move the ball too slow and we don't really press high up the field to win the ball back closer to goal.

And Ronaldo hinders both of those aspects. He simply cannot start the important games this season.
 

RedRonaldo

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We are much more fluid with rashford or even martial upfront.
Not when we are with the ball under possession, we look totally toothless/disconnected with Rashford up front. But when we are on counter we do look more dangerous with Bruno+Rashford combo.
 

RedRonaldo

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3 games in?
New country
New league

Did you expect him to tear it up right off the bat like he's been doing at Ajax the past few years?
To be fair one might expect him to get more involved more in the game. Right now he looks like Sancho in his first season with us.
 

tjb

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We sometimes lack urgency in the final 3rd, but Ronaldo is such a huge problem.

He just offers nothing and some players in our team(Bruno) seek him out when the pass isn't on.

There's some nice bits here and there, but we still move the ball too slow and we don't really press high up the field to win the ball back closer to goal.

And Ronaldo hinders both of those aspects. He simply cannot start the important games this season.
Yes. This is what I see as well.

I do think ETH would plan to adapt the attack to the type of striker he has.

Today's game was pretty interesting for me. ETH has never been afraid of using a winger as a striker, using Sancho there late was something to look out for, especially when thinking about a back up plan in the short term. Sancho has good touch and is great around the box, it could be something to look at in a similar way to how Liverpool have used Mane and Salah in the past.

Not attack related, but I also liked seeing Malacia on the right. The versatility of the new signings we have is something our fans don't seem to be considering, yet it's something ETH clearly values.
 

Shiva87

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Don't understand the concern on this after we just won a game 2-0 and cruised in second gear through the second half.

There was no reason for us to go gung ho attack here as the game was well and truly a posession management exercise after the first 30 mins.

Don't think United will go out and thrash these teams by 5 or more goals. It's a tough season with new tactics, barely any rest periods, a game every 3 days etc.

The manager needs to ensure that we keep winning games to get our confidence and swagger back. Once that happens, we have enough quality in our attack to threaten teams.

Given where our club was last season, the only target this season has to be consistent hard work and running from our players. No slagging off in games unless we are 2-0/3-0 up.
 

colombianmancunian

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Ronaldo needs to understand he is now a poacher, and so, needs to stay up and stop dropping down to the middle of the field. It’s just lack of match fitness
 

Pogue Mahone

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To be fair, Brighton Leicester and Southampton were hardly glorious attacking performances with Ronaldo not starting any of them.

The narrative after Leicester and Arsenal game seemed to be we actually improved after he came off the bench also.
Well, yeah. The point being a 37 year old has been is better than no number 9 at all but only just…