Our big games - this season

[bond19821982]

I dont think Ole has figured out how to play with Ronaldo ,yet. He has been trying lot of things to fit him in . Atleast for now, Ronaldo is the elephant in his room.

We have a series of big games coming up and I think it will be a huge issue for us. We just can't afford to give space like we did yesterday. We can't afford not to press like yesterday.

How do you think we will play against big guns ? Ronaldo isn't getting dropped , which means Sancho and Pogba will be dropped.

My guess is , we will play a 352 with a midfield of McFred and Bruno, Ronaldo and Rashford as forwards.

Pretty much everyone bar Ronaldo will work their socks off and we may be able to get something. I really want us to dominate games against the bug guns, but just can't see it.

 

[largelyworried]

I think we'll sit back and counter, don't see much alternative. After 3 years I'd hoped we be up to going toe to toe with the bigger teams in the league, but we are where we are. If counterattacking gets us through this spell in a decent spot in the league, that'll have to do.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I dont think Ole has figured out how to play with Ronaldo ,yet. He has been trying lot of things to fit him in . Atleast for now, Ronaldo is the elephant in his room.

We have a series of big games coming up and I think it will be a huge issue for us. We just can't afford to give space like we did yesterday. We can't afford not to press like yesterday.

How do you think we will play against big guns ? Ronaldo isn't getting dropped , which means Sancho and Pogba will be dropped.

My guess is , we will play a 352 with a midfield of McFred and Bruno, Ronaldo and Rashford as forwards.

Pretty much everyone bar Ronaldo will work their socks off and we may be able to get something. I really want us to dominate games against the bug guns, but just can't see it.

I agree, juve found Ronaldo to be a tactical liability in some games. Would be a great impact sub. But we are probably handcuffed, which is a shame as ole has been one of the best prem managers in big games these last few years.

 

[Spoony]

Ronaldo-Cavani-Greenwood/Sancho at the moment.

 

[largelyworried]

I agree, juve found Ronaldo to be a tactical liability in some games. Would be a great impact sub. But we are probably handcuffed, which is a shame as ole has been one of the best prem managers in big games these last few years.

He did well at first, but went of a cliff last season

2019-2020 - 7 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses

Spurs - Win, Draw
Chelsea - Win, Win
Arsenal - Draw, Loss
Leicester - Win, Win
Liverpool - Draw, Loss
City - Win, Win

2020-2021 - 2 wins, 6 draws, 4 losses

Spurs - Loss, Win
Chelsea - Draw, Draw
Arsenal - Loss, Draw
Leicester - Loss, Draw
Liverpool - Loss, Draw
City - Draw, Win

 

[cyberman]

He did well at first, but went of a cliff last season

2019-2020 - 7 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses

Spurs - Win, Draw
Chelsea - Win, Win
Arsenal - Draw, Loss
Leicester - Win, Win
Liverpool - Draw, Loss
City - Win, Win

2020-2021 - 2 wins, 6 draws, 4 losses

Spurs - Loss, Win
Chelsea - Draw, Draw
Arsenal - Loss, Draw
Leicester - Loss, Draw
Liverpool - Loss, Draw
City - Draw, Win

Arsenal and Spurs should not be there

 

[Bilbo]

If I'm an opposition manager I'm hoping United don't go the counter-attacking route. Its the one thing with this squad of players that we genuinely excel at and also the best way to beat City & Liverpool. Chelsea I think will be a different strategy.

We need to remove the snobbery of thinking that we need to go to these places and completely outplay the opposition in order to achieve our aim and be taken seriously. We are a frightening counter attacking team and not using that tool when we need to would be idiotic.

 

[Spoony]

If I'm an opposition manager I'm hoping United don't go the counter-attacking route. Its the one thing with this squad of players that we genuinely excel at and also the best way to beat City & Liverpool. Chelsea I think will be a different strategy.

We need to remove the snobbery of thinking that we need to go to these places and completely outplay the opposition in order to achieve our aim and be taken seriously. We are a frightening counter attacking team and not using that tool when we need to would be idiotic.

So, what would be your starting lineup?

 

[Artimities]

Winning yesterday was huge on so many levels...
Defensively, I don't think anybody thought we would be ok... even our own team. Dalot looked horrible in my opinion. He would get too far forward and his speed was slow and rusty.
Telles needed that goal and I really think it will propel him to better form.
Ronaldo was just Ronaldo and his presence alone is worth the price of admission.
Cavani is a beast. His hustle late in the game was the difference. Huge win and a dagger to the heart of Villereal.

 

[Mentality Monsters]

You could give Solskjaer another £500 million to spend, he'd still revert to type in the big games and sit back, hit on the counter.

He's a defensive minded manager, and when he's backed into a corner, he always reverts to type. Despite all the waffle about our 'DNA, we should attack' etc etc. All talk.

Don't quite get all the positivity after last night's game. We could well beat Atalanta at home. Yet given our performances under the manager in the Champions League, would you at all put it past us to lose both of our remaining away fixtures? Then we beat Young Boys at home, and end up on 9 points. Hello Europa.

Defensive minded manager does probably need a CDM to be fair.

He already plays 2 in McFred, and we are still wide open. You somehow think Ole will play a singular CDM and we'll be tighter and more defensively stable as a result? He hasn't got a clue.

 

[Bilbo]

So, what would be your starting lineup?

Back 5 picks itself. McFred. Front four of Bruno, Rashford (if fit), Ronaldo, Greenwood

 

[Bebestation]

You could give Solskjaer another £500 million to spend, he'd still revert to type in the big games and sit back, hit on the counter.

He's a defensive minded manager, and when he's backed into a corner, he always reverts to type. Despite all the waffle about our 'DNA, we should attack' etc etc. All talk.

Defensive minded manager does probably need a CDM to be fair.

 

[Spoony]

Back 5 picks itself. McFred. Front four of Bruno, Rashford (if fit), Ronaldo, Greenwood

Rashford would add tempo. Hmmmm... Ronaldo has to play but I couldn't leave out Cavani either. Age is an issue, so perhaps he'd need to be rotated. All fun and games.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I really want us to dominate games against the big guns, but just can't see it.

Same here, doesn't mean team isn't capable of winning games, but much will depend how Ole will behave during certain moments of the game.

3-5-2 ? Very possible, however since this could be his final season and moment of clarity for fans and the board, I do hope he'll go out 4-3-3 or it's modified version and try stab opponents before they'll take total control of the game which so far is sadly expected.

 

[pocco]

Arsenal and Spurs should not be there

I wonder why

 

[Bilbo]

Rashford would add tempo. Hmmmm... Ronaldo has to play but I couldn't leave out Cavani either. Age is an issue, so perhaps he'd need to be rotated. All fun and games.

Yeah I've definitely become a massive Cavani fanboy and I'd struggle to leave him out, but what an impact sub. I'd play him against most teams, just not City & Liverpool

 

[cyberman]

I wonder why

Cause they’re shit! Even then it takes away a win from Oles record

 

[BusbyMalone]

If I'm an opposition manager I'm hoping United don't go the counter-attacking route. Its the one thing with this squad of players that we genuinely excel at and also the best way to beat City & Liverpool. Chelsea I think will be a different strategy.

We need to remove the snobbery of thinking that we need to go to these places and completely outplay the opposition in order to achieve our aim and be taken seriously. We are a frightening counter attacking team and not using that tool when we need to would be idiotic.

I'm with you on the counter-attacking front. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that way of playing; certainly against our rivals. We're generally good at it and it's a legitimate way to play. The issue comes when you're playing against teams that simply won't allow you to play like that, as we'll often be expected to dominate the ball against them, and they will typically be the ones that look to play counter-attacking football. That's when we look vulnerable. I realize that's not what the OP is about, but sill.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm with you on the counter-attacking front. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that way of playing; certainly against our rivals. We're generally good at it and it's a legitimate way to play. The issue comes when you're playing against teams that simply won't allow you to play like that, as we'll often be expected to dominate the ball against them, and they will typically be the ones that look to play counter-attacking football. That's when we look vulnerable. I realize that's not what the OP is about, but sill.

I agree, but in big games we know that this will be effective against City & Liverpool. Chelsea will be more conservative and I'd probably play three at the back against them.

 

[largelyworried]

I'm with you on the counter-attacking front. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that way of playing; certainly against our rivals. We're generally good at it and it's a legitimate way to play. The issue comes when you're playing against teams that simply won't allow you to play like that, as we'll often be expected to dominate the ball against them, and they will typically be the ones that look to play counter-attacking football. That's when we look vulnerable. I realize that's not what the OP is about, but sill.

I think there's a difference between tactically choosing to do something, and doing something because we can't do the alternative. Counter attacking is fine, but if a game unfolds in a certain way, counter-attacking isn't always an option. If we go behind we might have to chase the game, for example. Obviously, I'd love to see us dominate Liverpool at home simply because... its Liverpool at home. But even if you pragmatically look at the result alone, counter-attacking might not get us the whole way. We need to be similarly strong at being on the front foot too.

 

[BusbyMalone]

I think there's a difference between tactically choosing to do something, and doing something because we can't do the alternative. Counter attacking is fine, but if a game unfolds in a certain way, counter-attacking isn't always an option. If we go behind we might have to chase the game, for example. Obviously, I'd love to see us dominate Liverpool at home simply because... its Liverpool at home. But even if you pragmatically look at the result alone, counter-attacking might not get us the whole way. We need to be similarly strong at being on the front foot too.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Counter-attacking is nothing to be ashamed of. It's a legitimate way to play (against certain teams) and we should do it because we're good at it. But yeah, that's not always going to be an option and that's what we need to improve on. You do need to be able to adapt, yes.

I also think that some people conflate counter-attacking with passivity. But they're two different things. Being set up to counter-attack does not make you passive if you're doing it properly. If you press at the right time, don't sit too deep, and use the ball wisely when you do get it, then it can be lethal.

 

[Bebestation]

I don't want to jinx it but I'm not scared of City because of their lack of striker.

I'm not scared of Chelsea well kind of because of the same.

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't think the elephant in the room is Ronaldo at all. He's an excellent poacher who is scoring a goal per game. The elephant in the room, for me, is the same it's always been. It's the midfield. It's how to find the balance in our team, and the biggest problem being the constant need to shoe horn Pogba and Bruno together when it just doesn't work. Both are class players, but we can't play them together. At least not with the coaching staff we've had. Putting Pogba on the left will work once in a while, but more often than not it doesn't, as Pogba isn't direct, doesn't have pace, isn't a natural winger and doesn't have the movement of one.

I say it every time, but we effectively replaced Pogba when Bruno was signed. Pogba has stayed because of world circumstances, and no hard feelings to him at all but we can't be balanced with both in the starting 11, it doesn't work. If Ole tries it in big games, we'll get undone.

 

[pocco]

Cause they’re shit! Even then it takes away a win from Oles record

And a few losses. Half his big game losses, in fact. Nice try though.

 

[Irwin99]

I actually think we'll win a fair few but it won't be pretty and it will be the counter attacking/defend deep stuff we've seen a lot of. As some people have argued, counter-attacking and fast transitions are nothing to scoff at and they're very effective but sometimes it is frustrating to witness the difference in ball retention and general technique and I can't quite escape the feeling that we go into these games wanting to be the underdog. No complaints if it works though.

One interesting thing that people have alluded to is the fact that United now have a lot of big players (egos maybe?) in our team as compared to Ole's first full season. It looked god-awful at times but the front four attack of Rashford, Andreas/Lingard, James and Martial could press a lot, work hard and track back. Our attack now has improved a great deal but it might not be as suited to such a high intensity strategy.

 

[TMDaines]

He did well at first, but went of a cliff last season

2019-2020 - 7 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses

Spurs - Win, Draw
Chelsea - Win, Win
Arsenal - Draw, Loss
Leicester - Win, Win
Liverpool - Draw, Loss
City - Win, Win

2020-2021 - 2 wins, 6 draws, 4 losses

Spurs - Loss, Win
Chelsea - Draw, Draw
Arsenal - Loss, Draw
Leicester - Loss, Draw
Liverpool - Loss, Draw
City - Draw, Win

Hopefully this turns out to be a bonafide example of where the lack of fans has negatively affected us. It would be hard to do much worse anyway!

 

[cyberman]

And a few losses. Half his big game losses, in fact. Nice try though.

Nice try for what? Why aren’t the literal 5th best side in England last year included? The side who finished a point behind the European champions?
But we include the consistently 8th best side in England? That nonsense makes it a shit stat and why pretending sides stay at the same level over two seasons is a waste of time. Even then the most consistent side there finished 8th.. twice!
I’d play Spurs over West Ham any day over the last 18 months and you’re a liar if you say otherwise

 

[peridigm]

I dont think Ole has figured out how to play with Ronaldo ,yet. He has been trying lot of things to fit him in . Atleast for now, Ronaldo is the elephant in his room.

We have a series of big games coming up and I think it will be a huge issue for us. We just can't afford to give space like we did yesterday. We can't afford not to press like yesterday.

How do you think we will play against big guns ? Ronaldo isn't getting dropped , which means Sancho and Pogba will be dropped.

My guess is , we will play a 352 with a midfield of McFred and Bruno, Ronaldo and Rashford as forwards.

Pretty much everyone bar Ronaldo will work their socks off and we may be able to get something. I really want us to dominate games against the bug guns, but just can't see it.

I disagree with the Ronaldo statement. I think the issue is that Ole has not figured out how to play with Pogba. He's used Pogba in 4 different positions since taking over.
LW, #10, #8 and #6. Pogba is clearly a talented player but Ole seems to prefer him in a position that is not his strongest, or at least what we bought him for. Once Rashford is fit again, Pogba won't be playing on the LW anymore. At least I hope he won't.
That means, Pogba goes back into the MF to partner one of Matic, Fred, or McTominay. We've seen all 3 of these partnerships and none of them are great. Not even considering Donny as a partner with Pogba in MF.
This is all going to happen around the time Rashford is fit. He will be a sub for a few matches but I fully expect him to take his spot back on the left once fit. Greenwood has cemented his spot on the right.
That leaves Sancho and Cavani as suitable subs for the front 3. Sure, we can mix it up and rotate and all that, which we will, but 8 times out of 10, the front 3 will be Rashford - Ronaldo - Greenwood.
Bruno is will not be dropped and very rarely rested, let alone rotated.
All these lineups with Ronaldo on the left just to get Cavani on at the same time are dreams. Ronaldo is needs to be in the box. He won't be as effective running up and down the wing the entire match.

 

[largelyworried]

Hopefully this turns out to be a bonafide example of where the lack of fans has negatively affected us. It would be hard to do much worse anyway!

Ha, could be something in that. A polite way of putting it is that we're at our best when games are a bit chaotic and open, and crowds play a part in that happening.

 

[pocco]

Nice try for what? Why aren’t the literal 5th best side in England last year included? The side who finished a point behind the European champions?
But we include the consistently 8th best side in England? That nonsense makes it a shit stat and why pretending sides stay at the same level over two seasons is a waste of time. Even then the most consistent side there finished 8th.. twice!
I’d play Spurs over West Ham any day over the last 18 months and you’re a liar if you say otherwise

I absolutely wouldn't play Spurs over West Ham. Spurs have far more firepower and if Kane had the chances Villarreal had last night then he'd murder us.

 

[cyberman]

I absolutely wouldn't play Spurs over West Ham. Spurs have far more firepower and if Kane had the chances Villarreal had last night then he'd murder us.

Spurs wouldn’t create those chances because they aren’t as good as Villarreal and we would create a lot more the other way because they are terrible defensively.
1 goal from open play in 6 games while having the worst attacking sides in the entire league hence Spurs being a terrible fecking side.
the only reason anybody would laud Spurs as a side and attacking threat is only because they want to make a point.
Fun fact, since the start of last season West Ham have scored more goals than Spurs.
Spurs have been terrible for a good 18 months now and they’re getting worse with every week that passes hence why West Ham are a better side by a considerable distance at that

 

[Crashoutcassius]

If I'm an opposition manager I'm hoping United don't go the counter-attacking route. Its the one thing with this squad of players that we genuinely excel at and also the best way to beat City & Liverpool. Chelsea I think will be a different strategy.

We need to remove the snobbery of thinking that we need to go to these places and completely outplay the opposition in order to achieve our aim and be taken seriously. We are a frightening counter attacking team and not using that tool when we need to would be idiotic.

Exactly. I wanted to write this but gave up. Well said. No shame in being one of the world's best counter attacking teams. I wish we were better with the ball... But we aren't, and we can achieve a lot of we can get big results

 

[fergieisold]

I dont think Ole has figured out how to play with Ronaldo ,yet. He has been trying lot of things to fit him in . Atleast for now, Ronaldo is the elephant in his room.

We have a series of big games coming up and I think it will be a huge issue for us. We just can't afford to give space like we did yesterday. We can't afford not to press like yesterday.

How do you think we will play against big guns ? Ronaldo isn't getting dropped , which means Sancho and Pogba will be dropped.

My guess is , we will play a 352 with a midfield of McFred and Bruno, Ronaldo and Rashford as forwards.

Pretty much everyone bar Ronaldo will work their socks off and we may be able to get something. I really want us to dominate games against the bug guns, but just can't see it.

The elephant that's scored 5 in 5?

 

[passtheball]

I dont think Ole has figured out how to play

Should have stopped there.

Ronaldo is not the elephant in the room. Last season, folks kept complaining that we don't have a prolific goalscorer in the team except Cavani who cannot play 90 minutes of every game. Now we have Ronaldo who can, with Cavani to bring off the bench, and suddenly that's a problem? Juve are struggling this season without Ronaldo. This myth that it was he who made them bad needs to die.

Any competent, attack-minded manager would make a front three of Ronaldo, Greenwood and Sancho work. Ronaldo is the best header of the ball in the game. He hasn't scored one at United yet. Greenwood can put in good crosses (remember his cross for Cavani's goal away at Spurs last season?). Sancho can too. But they are playing as inverted wingers and not putting in as many crosses as they should. It's unbelievable and unforgivable.

Playing forwards on their natural side also stretches the pitch since they are not coming in all the time. It gives more possiblities for one-twos with the full-backs and with midfielders. Why have Ole and his coaches not even tried this yet?

All this brings us to the real elephant in the room: poor coaching, the lack of specific instructions to players, and a defensive, reactive manager who does not try new things. Some fans want to ignore that. To other fans, and to fans of other teams, it is very apparent.

 

[GregM40]

I don't think the elephant in the room is Ronaldo at all. He's an excellent poacher who is scoring a goal per game. The elephant in the room, for me, is the same it's always been. It's the midfield. It's how to find the balance in our team, and the biggest problem being the constant need to shoe horn Pogba and Bruno together when it just doesn't work. Both are class players, but we can't play them together. At least not with the coaching staff we've had. Putting Pogba on the left will work once in a while, but more often than not it doesn't, as Pogba isn't direct, doesn't have pace, isn't a natural winger and doesn't have the movement of one.

I say it every time, but we effectively replaced Pogba when Bruno was signed. Pogba has stayed because of world circumstances, and no hard feelings to him at all but we can't be balanced with both in the starting 11, it doesn't work. If Ole tries it in big games, we'll get undone.

Bang on the money here. We should only really be playing one of them, especially in big games, with our lack of a mobile DM. Unless Pogba can start pressing properly and atleast try and sprint back sometimes anyway.

 

[bond19821982]

Think there is a small misunderstanding here. I never said Ronaldo is our elephant in the room. I said , Ronaldo is the elephant in Ole's room. He hasn't figured out how to set the team up with Ronaldo.

 

[bosnian_red]

Think there is a small misunderstanding here. I never said Ronaldo is our elephant in the room. I said , Ronaldo is the elephant in Ole's room. He hasn't figured out how to set the team up with Ronaldo.

Why do you think that though? He's scored a goal per game. He's playing up front and he's been fine. I haven't watched our performances and felt the problem is our striker not having good enough movement. The problem with Ole is he's been shoe horning Pogba wherever he can and it leaves us unbalanced. He just doesn't fit our side. The sooner we just choose to rotate Pogba and Bruno, the sooner we'll stop leaking goals.

 

[bond19821982]

Why do you think that though? He's scored a goal per game. He's playing up front and he's been fine. I haven't watched our performances and felt the problem is our striker not having good enough movement. The problem with Ole is he's been shoe horning Pogba wherever he can and it leaves us unbalanced. He just doesn't fit our side. The sooner we just choose to rotate Pogba and Bruno, the sooner we'll stop leaking goals.

Do you think benching Pogba would improve us? I don't think so. Problem is not just Pogba. When we got Cavani in, we started playing well. Ronaldo doesn't bring that urgency we need. That's why Ole always try to bring Lingard so that we will have that energy when we need a goal.

Now this is not a stick to best Ronaldo. We knew what we were getting. Ronaldo and Messi absolutely need the game to be dominated. You feed them and they will score. Now that doesn't mean everyone pass to Ronaldo when you have a chance. Again, it's just that we don't know how to take control of the games.

Against Villarreal, With their slow buildup pattern, we should have started Matic,Scott,Donny/Pogba. Atleast should have made the changes at half time .

 

[bond19821982]

1 down and fecked up heavily.