Our defence 22/23 vs 07/08

[Red Rash]

Obviously the team in 07/08 was legendary and won the Champions League and Premier League so in terms of achievement it isn't really close however in terms of performance and quality I think you can make a comparison.

De Gea Vs Van der Sar : As a well rounded goalkeeper I think VDS is clearly ahead but De Gea is a great shot stopper and has saved us a number of times this season.

AWB / Dalot vs Wes Brown : On current performance I think this is close. A bit of recency bias maybe but Brown was a better CB than RB. The performances of AWB and Dalot have both been really good this season

Varane vs Ferdinand : In my opinion both were on a world class level. I loved Ferdinand during this time and Varane has won it all in his career and has been a huge reason for our solid defence this season.

Martinez vs Vidic : Both absolute warriors and the kind of players you want to help lead the team. Vidic was probably better in the air but Martinez is better with the ball at his feet

Shaw vs Evra : I also think Shaw is having a super impressive season and seems to be growing into one of the on field leaders. Evra of course is just a pure legend, great left back and amazing personality

Overall based on what they achieved the 07/08 defence is ahead but considering the age of our current defenders I think they have every chance of getting to that level on the coming years.

 

[tentan]

I don't think we'll reach those levels ever again.

 

[Bwuk]

07/08 players were all better than their counter parts.

Our 07/08 side would walk the league this year. Only Casemiro & Rashford start in in it out of our current at starting 11.

 

[Chief123]

Martinez is the greatest defender ever to play the game. Enough said.

 

[Red_Heisenberg]

Come on now. 2008 won all the major prizes on offer, this defence has so far reached a league Cup final..

There's levels to this. The defence is moving in the right direction, but I'd take the 2008 defence as things stand.

 

[Skills]

07/08 obviously

 

[bosnian_red]

De Gea is statistically barely a mid table goalkeeper at this point... He's bottom half in fact. Look at John Harrisons goalkeeper model on twitter. De Gea has his strengths but 17/18 was the top of the mountain for him and it's been a decline ever since.

Dalot has been injured a lot lately, but I do think he'd overall be better than Wes Brown but brown had a great year that year.

Varane at his peak vs Rio at his peak is probably comparable tbh.

Licha is great but he's not Vidic. Maybe one day.

Shaw as well, excellent but a long way to go to be Evra level.

As a group, that team was excellent defensively, far ahead of this one though we are definitely improving and looking set long term. Goalkeeper is the only position of need for us in our defensive group.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

After some not so long deliberation, I’ve decided:

GK: Van de Sar
RB: Brown
RCB: Ferdinand
LCB: Vidic
LB: Evra

 

[Dion]

07/08 comfortably better by a massive margin for every player. It was probably Rio's best season and even though Varane is still great that edition of Rio is head and shoulders above him. Martinez has been very good but Vidic is one of the all time great defenders and was very close to his peak then. Evra and Shaw are probably closest, but Evra's speed and willingness to get up and down the pitch put him ahead. AWB/Dalot aren't close to Brown that season, he was always a decent rightback but I genuinely don't know where his 07/08 form came from. Maybe it was just that he was fit for an entire season for once? He was even a reasonable attacking threat and held the pitch open. The biggest drop in our attacking play between 07/08 and 08/09 (well, the end of 08/09 when Ronaldo was back on it) was O'Shea in for Brown, which is pretty mad considering the rest of Brown's career.

Oh and yeah, VDS in 07/08 was better than any version of De Gea other than for a bit around the end of LvG's reign to Mourinho's second season.

 

[AltiUn]

This might be my most controversial opinion ever but I think Shaw at his best is better than Evra.

 

[Spaghetti]

This might be my most controversial opinion ever but I think Shaw at his best is better than Evra.

I wouldn’t argue with that, emphasising the part at his best. Shaw’s main problem is his lack of consistency. He can be the better-than-Evra version for a few months, and then he turns into the worse-than-Buttner version for a while.

 

[Dion]

This might be my most controversial opinion ever but I think Shaw at his best is better than Evra.

I could see the argument he might be better in certain systems at his best than Evra, but as players Evra at his best was much better. I don't even have Evra that far behind Irwin, he had everything including a tremendous amount of character and leadership which is massively undervalued by a lot of people.

I miss him

 

[Baneofthegame]

De Gea is statistically barely a mid table goalkeeper at this point... He's bottom half in fact. Look at John Harrisons goalkeeper model on twitter. De Gea has his strengths but 17/18 was the top of the mountain for him and it's been a decline ever since.

Dalot has been injured a lot lately, but I do think he'd overall be better than Wes Brown but brown had a great year that year.

Varane at his peak vs Rio at his peak is probably comparable tbh.

Licha is great but he's not Vidic. Maybe one day.

Shaw as well, excellent but a long way to go to be Evra level.

As a group, that team was excellent defensively, far ahead of this one though we are definitely improving and looking set long term. Goalkeeper is the only position of need for us in our defensive group.

Rio at his peak was better than Varane in my opinion.

Shaw is the only one peak for peak who might get in.

 

[Red in STL]

Rio at his peak was better than Varane in my opinion.

Shaw is the only one peak for peak who might get in.

Rio vs Varane is a tough one, Varane maybe edges it for me as he's doing it with a weaker team but it's a paper thin difference

 

[El Jefe]

Anyone putting Shaw above Evra was either too young to watch Evra or has forgotten how good he was. Shaw is good but wasn't close to Evra, the only thing he has on Evra is his final ball.

Evra was a much better defender both 1v1 and positionally. He could overlap far better, dribble better and had more pace too. Scored more also.

Shaw is a good full back, Evra was a great. Played in a CL final five times for three different teams.

 

[Bondi77]

Luke is the only current player that could make that side.....Varane would be a very good 3rd CB though.

 

[Vapor trail]

Evra was a much better player than Shaw for me. The reality of that defence is that they were settled and man for man better individual players.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Rio vs Varane is a tough one, Varane maybe edges it for me as he's doing it with a weaker team but it's a paper thin difference

I think people forget how good Rio was in my opinion.

 

[ShoePolish]

Take a leaf from Keanes book and say 07/08 were bigger "characters". Also, they won things

 

[Red_Heisenberg]

Anyone putting Shaw above Evra was either too young to watch Evra or has forgotten how good he was. Shaw is good but wasn't close to Evra, the only thing he has on Evra is his final ball.

Evra was a much better defender both 1v1 and positionally. He could overlap far better, dribble better and had more pace too. Scored more also.

Shaw is a good full back, Evra was a great. Played in a CL final five times for three different teams.

Disagree on the dribbling. Shaw for me is one of the best ball carriers in the league.

 

[Remember the geese]

There are a few players from this side who have an argument for being good enough to be in a combined 07/08 side. We now have a quality back 4, a pretty good midfield and Rashford up top. However, I would probably only have Casemiro and perhaps Bruno in the 07/08 eleven.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Disagree on the dribbling. Shaw for me is one of the best ball carriers in the league.

Evra is aggressive, consistent Luke Shaw.

 

[Lyng]

There are a few players from this side who have an argument for being good enough to be in a combined 07/08 side. We now have a quality back 4, a pretty good midfield and Rashford up top. However, I would probably only have Casemiro and perhaps Bruno in the 07/08 eleven.

Who would you take out to put Bruno in?

That 07/08 team was insane. Especially if you add the depth of squad we had.

 

[Sunny Jim]

One thing for sure - current crop of defenders is the best since Fergie left

 

[Remember the geese]

Who would you take out to put Bruno in?

That 07/08 team was insane. Especially if you add the depth of squad we had.

Potentially a midfield three of Casemiro, Scholes and Bruno. Obviously the likes of Carrick, Giggs, Hargreaves etc would have something to say about that.

 

[cyril C]

Obviously the team in 07/08 was legendary and won the Champions League and Premier League so in terms of achievement it isn't really close however in terms of performance and quality I think you can make a comparison.

De Gea Vs Van der Sar : As a well rounded goalkeeper I think VDS is clearly ahead but De Gea is a great shot stopper and has saved us a number of times this season.

AWB / Dalot vs Wes Brown : On current performance I think this is close. A bit of recency bias maybe but Brown was a better CB than RB. The performances of AWB and Dalot have both been really good this season

Varane vs Ferdinand : In my opinion both were on a world class level. I loved Ferdinand during this time and Varane has won it all in his career and has been a huge reason for our solid defence this season.

Martinez vs Vidic : Both absolute warriors and the kind of players you want to help lead the team. Vidic was probably better in the air but Martinez is better with the ball at his feet

Shaw vs Evra : I also think Shaw is having a super impressive season and seems to be growing into one of the on field leaders. Evra of course is just a pure legend, great left back and amazing personality

Overall based on what they achieved the 07/08 defence is ahead but considering the age of our current defenders I think they have every chance of getting to that level on the coming years.

1 for 1 comparison, both back5 may be similar. Although I would rate Evra slightly ahead of Shaw, Brown + a handful of players? better than Dalot/AWB, being more consistent.

Nevertheless, the major difference is on backup, i.e. your 6th or 7th player. Brown can double up as CB, and we had a no. of players capable of, and comfortably, came in as sub or backup. Who do we have - Maguire? I only rate Lindelof as a decent backup

Who do we have backup now?

 

[11101]

I dont think the current lot get in at any position.

Van Der Sar was so much better at organising his defence and commanding his area.
Brown was an incredible talent cut short by injuries, but he was still a brilliant player when on his game, as he was all through 07/08. Dalot just isn't as good as him.
Evra might have lacked the talent of Shaw but he was consistent, effective and had a great understanding with Vidic. Shaw should have been better but has had too many wasted years.
Rio was better than Varane. Varane should have been the better player but he never quite reached his early promise.
Vidic was better than Martinez, though i could see Martinez catching him up if he continues at this trajectory.

 

[Ish]

07/08 players were all better than their counter parts.

Our 07/08 side would walk the league this year. Only Casemiro & Rashford start in in it out of our current at starting 11.

Rashford starts in place of Ronaldo or how would you try and accommodate him in that starting side? Agreed with your overall point though. Love Licha and Varane (both world cup winners as well!) but they have a long way to go to displace Rio-Vidic.

Casemiro for Carrick is an interesting one. Carrick brought so much to that side, but yeah, Casemiro is bona-fide world class.

 

[MadDogg]

Rio vs Varane is a tough one, Varane maybe edges it for me as he's doing it with a weaker team but it's a paper thin difference

Not 07/08 Rio. It was IMO the best season any PL defender has ever had, and one of the top two seasons any defender in the world has had since the turn of the century (along with Nesta one year).

If we're talking over the course of their career then maybe an argument could be had. I'd still go Rio though myself.

 

[Lyng]

Potentially a midfield three of Casemiro, Scholes and Bruno. Obviously the likes of Carrick, Giggs, Hargreaves etc would have something to say about that.

Ah yeah that would be a fantastic midfield. If I remember correctly Park played quite abit as our AM back then and Bruno would basically be the work rate of Park + the added passing and scoring excellence of Bruno.

 

[Zen86]

I think people forget how good Rio was in my opinion.

It's bizarre how underrated he is. Sublime defender.

07/08 win this hands down.

 

[Skills]

Ah yeah that would be a fantastic midfield. If I remember correctly Park played quite abit as our AM back then and Bruno would basically be the work rate of Park + the added passing and scoring excellence of Bruno.

Park played almost exclusively on the wings back then.

The midfield that season IIRC was basically Carrick + 1 of Scholes, Anderson, Fletcher with Hargreaves getting some games on the right too. Only in some.games did we switch to a 3, but Park never got games there.

 

[Skills]

I'd have Shaw over Evra and Dalot over Brown. Vidic and Rio are levels above though.

I think both the keepers are upgradeable - but I'd keep VDS over DDG because he built good chemistry with Rio and Vidic.

 

[IrishMcD]

There is no way anyone old enough to have watched Evra can possibly think Shaw is better than him. Absolutely no contest.
shaw has had some excellent performances amongst seasons worth of poor, lazy and extremely average games. Evra, once he got over his settling in period, was brilliantly consistent. Extremely competitive and also bombing forward. Loved watching him play.

 

[Lyng]

Park played almost exclusively on the wings back then.

The midfield that season IIRC was basically Carrick + 1 of Scholes, Anderson, Fletcher with Hargreaves getting some games on the right too. Only in some.games did we switch to a 3, but Park never got games there.

Yeah Carrick and Scholes where the starting comp. Fletcher was only 23 that season and played 22 games for us with a average of 48 minutes per game in those matches. Anderson who was only 19 actually featured more.
But like you said we rarely played with a AM. Out of his 33 matches that season only 7 where as a AM. Park actually did play 3 games as a AM out of his total of 18 that season.
Hargreaves only played 1 game on the right for us that season and the vast majority of his games where as a DM.

 

[El Jefe]

Disagree on the dribbling. Shaw for me is one of the best ball carriers in the league.

Its honestly no contest, Evra was a far better dribbler than Shaw. Evra was the closest left back to Marcelo in terms of dribbling of the last generation. Evra could dominate an entire side of the pitch by himself, all he lacked was consistent crossing ability.

There is no way anyone old enough to have watched Evra can possibly think Shaw is better than him. Absolutely no contest.
shaw has had some excellent performances amongst seasons worth of poor, lazy and extremely average games. Evra, once he got over his settling in period, was brilliantly consistent. Extremely competitive and also bombing forward. Loved watching him play.

I'm genuinely surprised that it's even being debated. I said the same regarding age of posters, either that or memory.

 

[MadDogg]

There is no way anyone old enough to have watched Evra can possibly think Shaw is better than him. Absolutely no contest.
shaw has had some excellent performances amongst seasons worth of poor, lazy and extremely average games. Evra, once he got over his settling in period, was brilliantly consistent. Extremely competitive and also bombing forward. Loved watching him play.

As somebody above said, Shaw at his best can have an argument. When he's playing well he's simply an incredible footballer.

However he simply hasn't shown the consistency to be placed ahead of Evra in general, and if we're talking about 22/23 vs 07/08 versions in particular, he hasn't been 'that' good this season. 20/21 maybe, but while this has been his second best season it's still not quite at the same level.

Evra was the best leftback in the world for at least three seasons. Shaw has the ability to stake that claim, but so far he's only done it for one (and then followed it up with a poor season).

 

[Skills]

As somebody above said, Shaw at his best can have an argument. When he's playing well he's simply an incredible footballer.

However he simply hasn't shown the consistency to be placed ahead of Evra in general, and if we're talking about 22/23 vs 07/08 versions in particular, he hasn't been 'that' good this season. 20/21 maybe, but while this has been his second best season it's still not quite at the same level.

Evra was the best leftback in the world for at least three seasons. Shaw has the ability to stake that claim, but so far he's only done it for one (and then followed it up with a poor season).

Evra had 4 very good - great seasons (including 1 great one) but after 2010 he was a bit of a liability. Left back was the one position everyone wanted upgrading alongside the midfield after that.

 

[Siorac]

I mean, we've conceded 26 goals in 21 league games so far this season.

In 07/08, we conceded 22 goals. In total, over 38 games.

Sure, stats don't always tell the full story and there's context and nuance and whatnot but in this case I think the numbers alone are quite conclusive. I won't bring up conceding just two goals in the CL knockout stages because there's no basis for comparison there. But, yeah, okay, I'll bring it up anyway: we conceded TWO goals in SEVEN knockout games in the Champions League back then. One of which was a long-range shot that got deflected twice AND our keeper slipped.

 

[MadDogg]

Evra had 4 very good - great seasons (including 1 great one) but after 2010 he was a bit of a liability. Left back was the one position everyone wanted upgrading alongside the midfield after that.

Evra was always great offensively and would generally dominate his entire side of the field. Later on he did get a bit lazy defensively and wasn't getting back so well, but I'd hardly say he was a liability. In fact in hindsight and seeing how the fullback position has evolved with the offensive side of the game arguably being more important than the defensive, I feel we were probably a bit harsh with some of the criticisms.