Scoring 2 away from home is indeed good
Our Finishing
- Thread starter Mr.Ridiculous__
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I personally think our finishing is a bigger issue. We shouldve scored 5 today.
We've been wasteful but this has also been our best season from an attacking perspective since Sir Alex retired.
- 13/14 - 64 goals scored
- 14/15 - 62
- 15/16 - 49
- 16/17 - 54
- 17/18 - 68
- 18/19 - 65
- 19/20 - 66
- 20/21 - 30 in 14 - pace for 81.5 goals in a season
Maybe, no ones for sure if we still wouldn't have leaked more goals anyway. I look at our goal scored away from home stats, it's good tbh. We concede too much though
The best thing to do for that is not play James for starters. He is woeful
Should of? Firstly even the best miss chances, secondly unless you're demanding Messi/Ronaldo numbers you're going to have to make your peace with players missing chances, thirdly you're assuming Rashford scores the header the game continues its trajectory and he gets the chance he does score with. You're assuming Rashford scores his one on one Bruno still gets the chance he scores with and hate to break it to you but football doesn't work that way
Yes and really high quality teams will dominate Leicester in terms of both. Not play on the counter and win the better chances moral high ground trophy. We created better chances and they controlled the football match. Until we do both and actually come out of games with the likes of Leicester as clearly the better football team, we aren't challenging for feck all.
Leicester aren't pushovers. But they aren't a great team. Were in the same bucket as them currently. We need things to go our way to run away with it as do they.
The attack is getting some flack but they're the only thing that's keeping us going at the present.
Imagine if they weren't scoring or creating chances.
Imagine if they weren't scoring or creating chances.
This is it in a nutshell regarding today.
Doesn't mean they can't get better. Infact this thinking is probably what will limit us going forward.
Oh sure we can get better offensively but I just wouldn't overly be critical of them at the present when we have issues in controlling the games narrative, so to speak.
Football can be split to 5 elements:
1. Creating chances
2. Finishing
3. Controlling the game (keeping the ball away from opposition while winning)
4. Not conceding chances/shots
5. Goalkeeping
So far this season we're only good at the first point in that list. Funny enough we were quite good against Leicester at point 4, but they somehow managed to score 2 goals from 2 shots on target.
1. Creating chances
2. Finishing
3. Controlling the game (keeping the ball away from opposition while winning)
4. Not conceding chances/shots
5. Goalkeeping
So far this season we're only good at the first point in that list. Funny enough we were quite good against Leicester at point 4, but they somehow managed to score 2 goals from 2 shots on target.
Clinical finisher isn’t easy to find nowadays.
Our fans seem to think that every good chance has to be scored. It doesn't work that way. How can a team that had 9 shots on goal and 0 corners be the same one that SHOULD have scored 5 today? Maybe if we actually played better rather than expecting every chance to him, we would have.
Obviously youre always going to expect a few squandered chance.. but with martial atm and rashford its way to often. I mean i see rashford on a 1v1 and i expect him to blast it at the keeper. Its difficult because at the same time the vast majority of fws wouldnt even get into the position that rashford gets.
When youre 1v1 against the keeper if you arent scoring.. you at least need to force a worldclass save. Rashford lacks alot of finnese. He so often jus relies on blasting it past the keeper. Its a problem he needa to fix within the next 2 year or else he will turn into danny welbeck.
On your third point.. its kinda irrelevent.. based on the chances i saw.. we shouldve scores 5 today. How the game wouldve changed had we scored early is not possible to tell.. i could as easily say had rashford scored theheader we win 1-0 or i could say we go on to win 8-5. Its pure speculation.
It's amazing that we can score so many goals and still be so wasteful. Creating chances is the most difficult thing in football, so we're clearly doing a lot of things right.
Being one of the most clinical finishers in football, it must be driving Ole insane to see all these good chances go to waste.
Being one of the most clinical finishers in football, it must be driving Ole insane to see all these good chances go to waste.
It's not good enough. Need to put them away, irrespectively of the rest of the team and lack of good defenders.
Exactly. People seem to see these top forward stats and just assume they score with every shot they take, which is ridiculous considering Ronaldo himself had like a 25% conversion rate I think in his Madrid days. We create and score enough to challenge on paper, but we lack the ability to control a game from the back and in midfield unless we start Pogba, and then that makes us even more vulnerable defensively.
If we have players that are more press resistant at the back, we can keep the ball better. When we do that, we'll score more goals and create more chances, as well as look more assured at the back. But when you have Fred, AWB, Lindelof etc shitting bricks when someone puts them under pressure, it only exposes our defense more than they already are.
It's modern football and modern footballers for you.
You rarely see them sidefooting it and scoring with ease nowdays. Vardy does it beautifly, looks so easy.
Yes yes, Rashford did score today excatly like that, but he had another chance and he should have done the same instead he blasted it. He needs to sidefoot it and hit the target more then blasting it.
He does have a great shot in him, so it's easy to see why he does it...
Martial on the other hand takes too much time in front of goal.
We were so much better today...it's hard to only take a point from it.
Should have scored more.
You rarely see them sidefooting it and scoring with ease nowdays. Vardy does it beautifly, looks so easy.
Yes yes, Rashford did score today excatly like that, but he had another chance and he should have done the same instead he blasted it. He needs to sidefoot it and hit the target more then blasting it.
He does have a great shot in him, so it's easy to see why he does it...
Martial on the other hand takes too much time in front of goal.
We were so much better today...it's hard to only take a point from it.
Should have scored more.
I don't think we are far off, in defence and in attack to make the final step to being a top team. '
It requires 2 players to make the final step in there development or solving via 2 transfers.
I completely agree with the observation that you can’t score on every good chance. Gospel truth stuff.
However...we’re missing too many glorious chances and it cost us two points today. The Rashford free header miss is hard to view as anything other than a terrible miss. The 1 v 1 on Schmeichel was no sitter and the keeper deserves his share of credit, but you have to look at that as a glorious chance.
Apart from today, I can’t think of any glorious missed chances that cost us points in a league match, but we can’t be as wasteful in the future as we were today and expect to achieve great things. This is an aspect of our play that must improve.
However...we’re missing too many glorious chances and it cost us two points today. The Rashford free header miss is hard to view as anything other than a terrible miss. The 1 v 1 on Schmeichel was no sitter and the keeper deserves his share of credit, but you have to look at that as a glorious chance.
Apart from today, I can’t think of any glorious missed chances that cost us points in a league match, but we can’t be as wasteful in the future as we were today and expect to achieve great things. This is an aspect of our play that must improve.
Someone needs to tell Maguire that when he’s in the opposition box he needs to angle his head down a little to header it, the amount he puts over the bar is amazing
The “better chances moral high ground trophy”? What on earth are you talking about?
We were the better team today. They didn’t control the match, far from it, but I suspect you’re getting hung up about possession here. If you want to throw us in the same bucket as Leicester than knock yourself out. I and most others won’t, not that it would be the most offensive thing ever to happen considering they’ve fared much better than we have in the league in recent years.
2 goals should be enough from us, but defensively we were killed for things we should have done better.
The first goal - Bruno messing around with the ball in our half, McTominay should have closed down better and De Gea should have positioned himself better.
The second goal - Fred didn't closed down the pass inside, three defenders in the box in Maguire, Bailly and Tuanzebe yet Vardy isn't picked up.
The first goal - Bruno messing around with the ball in our half, McTominay should have closed down better and De Gea should have positioned himself better.
The second goal - Fred didn't closed down the pass inside, three defenders in the box in Maguire, Bailly and Tuanzebe yet Vardy isn't picked up.
Every supporter thinks their own team is most wasteful. You hear City supporters saying this on Sterling and Liverpool on Mané. If we look at the facts and ignore irrational feelings, Man United is the third most effective team in the league behind Liverpool and Southampton. Rashford is more clinical than Vardy, Mané, Werner, Fimino, and Sterling. So no, not scoring enough isn't our problem. We have scored the second-most goals in the league. Or defense is the problem. It isn't rocket science.
Hmm I'm skeptical, we looked solid a year ago, but we were so boring to watch as we just set up defensively - now we open up a little we look vulnerable, unless we get Van Dijk level player in defence (we assumed Maguire would be that) and similar quality for attack we'll constantly be around 4th, which i think will be enough for the owners.
To be honest we look more entertaining now, which I'm pleased with, I enjoy watching us more than I have for the last decade!
I'm of the opinion that we are still reliant on individual brilliance at on end and individual brainfarts at the other. I don't see a collective unit. For me the problem here is the MF. Don't really link with forwards or defenders.
The taking if chances is also key. Sure players miss and are not expected to score every chance. However it's the nature of the chances missed.
Not to pick on Rashford (as martial has been worse in front of goal) but that header was an easy chance he simply "headed" it before the ball reached him.
The other thing is how often it happens that our forwards miss
A one off is acceptable but it's happening too often.
The taking if chances is also key. Sure players miss and are not expected to score every chance. However it's the nature of the chances missed.
Not to pick on Rashford (as martial has been worse in front of goal) but that header was an easy chance he simply "headed" it before the ball reached him.
The other thing is how often it happens that our forwards miss
A one off is acceptable but it's happening too often.
I think if we were even slightly more clinical not just in attack but also defence (by which I mean last ditch blocks, fantastic saves, etc.) we'd be winning the league comfortably.
I mean look at some of the games where we've dropped points - Chelsea - a 1v1 missed, Arsenal - a stupid individual error costing us the game, today. That's atleast 6 points dropped. Similarly, in CL - we finish the chances vs PSG, we're through. Ditto was the case last season as well, where in Pre-Bruno, we dropped way too many points because we missed our chances
I mean look at some of the games where we've dropped points - Chelsea - a 1v1 missed, Arsenal - a stupid individual error costing us the game, today. That's atleast 6 points dropped. Similarly, in CL - we finish the chances vs PSG, we're through. Ditto was the case last season as well, where in Pre-Bruno, we dropped way too many points because we missed our chances
A draw was the fair result. We had better chances but barring the odd moment or two, performed poorly. We are in the same bucket at Leicester having narrowly beaten them to the top 4 last season. It's a shame because we have a much better team and should be imposing ourselves far more and out passing teams like them.
Yes I am hung up about possession. And as long as our manager and fans like you aren't, we are never really getting back to the perch. Counter attacking small time football will only get you so far. To take the next step, you have to learnt to pass the ball well and open teams up when there aren't acres to run into.
We have one clinical finisher & he’s a midfielder
“Counter attacking small time football” took us through our most successful period ever, so no, everything you are saying is complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, as a big club you should be able to both, as we used to. As Klopp has balanced the two. As all good managers do really. You can be an inept/mediocre possession team and expect to go places.
That guy used to be a bit level headed. I am surprised.
I mean sometimes, when you dislike a manager so much, all the logics go out.
Sorted of happened to me with Jose.
I thought so too, thought I was imagining it. The guy’s unfortunately a complete tool now.
No it didn't. We could always destroy teams controlling matches as well. It's like Liverpool today. They go for the kill as quickly as they can like we used to but they can also keep possession excellently. We on the other hand are one dimensional. We rely on being afforded space and struggle when it's not there. When we aren't able to break into space using our pace we don't have the collective quality to pass teams open. Usually at least.
We have demonstrated an ability to do both. A work in progress, granted, but there is clearly a determination for us to control matches, something Ole has referred to on several occasions this year.
Back to the initial thread starter - our finishing is a massive problem. Or, rather, Rashford’s finishing is just generally inconsistent and it just so happens that lots of our chances fall to him. Greenwood and Cavani will be starting more games before long.
Now now. Keep a grip on your idocity.
Our defence is not a problem, statistically we’re up there with the better teams. Our defence would be better if we scored more, because the longer we go without scoring, or when there’s only a one goal difference, it gives the opposition impetus to continue to attack.
Klopp is good.
But Liverpool play some of the ugly football and needed a bit of luck/breaks to win a lot of games in past 2 seasons.
Not a ditch on them but that's how you win championship.
Only manager that is able to dominate and win is probably Pep in his prime but even he had/ has a lot of shortcomings. Like suspect to " small time counter attack football" at times.
I think you are just fantasizing. Nothing wrong with it. I do it all the time. Sometimes in FM. But, I don't spout those in real life much.