Our fresh batch of deadwood

Raoul

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I'll be honest. I'm most worried about VDB. He has just enough pedigree for people to have faith in him. And his performances have been a bit of a joke. Looks like he's come from two divisions down.
I think he's going to be a slow evolver who will get better over time. People tend to see what Bruno has done and expect something comparable out of VdB, which was never going to happen.
 

Oldyella

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OP is harsh on Young and Smalling. Their time was up with us and both moved on when it was. Hardly deadwood after both giving us several years service.

Deadwood is a bad term anyway, if we talk about squad management then it's better, given deadwood consists of one player, Jones, sadly for him. Rest are either young players who may not make it or older players coming to the end of their careers or squad players who are just that and play occasionally.
 

Rozay

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
Did we sign Dan James last year?
 

Stormrage101MUFC

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Let's leave him out of it. I wanted him gone but he's clearly a very good goalscorer and just won Serie A.
His goal-scoring ability was never in question tbh, it was his ability to do it against big teams in big matches. He always struggled with that. The 2 goals (from huge defensive errors I should add) against PSG in that Champions League match are the only examples that spring to mind immediately, because they were so infrequent.

His contribution to the team outside of goal-scoring was actually quite underrated imo because he was a great counter-attacker or even pseudo-winger at times when needed with his pace and strength and decent crossing, but his ball control in the final third was so awful that it often hampered our attacking play, and high-quality defenders punished it heavily hence his lack of goals against big teams.

Anyway, I'd much rather have even a 34-year old Cavani.
 

tomaldinho1

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
It's crazy isn't it, 99% of football fans know that squad depth and having guys like Telles, James, VdB is vital for any team to be successful but if they aren't cemented first teamers, god help them as they will be in the deadwood pile soon enough.

United have a single player who doesn't have a use and that is Phil Jones who we are clearly taking care of because of his injury issues, it might be sentimental but I have no problem with us keeping him on.
 

Nick7

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
No it’s not.
 

mancsarered

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If this was Football Manager, good business I'd do this summer to clear out the dinosaurs

GK: Romero & Grant
Value: Free

Replacement: Tom Heaton (Free) - 35 years old

MID: Mata, Matic

Replacement: Declan Rice (70m) - 22 years old

DEF: Jones

Replacement: Kounde (40m) - 22 years old


Avg. Age Out: 33
Avg. Age In: 26
 
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amolbhatia50k

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
It's just a little pro active United mental feckabouttery while I sit on a hospital bed. Harmless.

We don't have to give everybody two seasons at this level btw. We'd be in all sorts of shit
 

BorisManUtd

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Mata will most probably be gone come the 1st of July. Williams is leaving at least on a loan, possibly even on permanent deal, he'll never be good enough imo, he's right-footed but for some reason much more comfortable on left side and we've got 2 better options there. If we get Sancho I think it means James is leaving. He had that decent spell back in February, think he's an ok player but wants to play more regularly, maybe move to Leeds could still happen in the end. If there's some club interesrted in Jones then he' leaving as well.

DVB deserves another season imo. Difficult first season in England but Fred was in similar situation and turned out to be a decent player for us.
 

Rooney1987

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
Dan James was 2019 but still I agree, it's a harsh assessment. He isn't United quality but he clearly isn't shit. We don't set up to play to his strengths really, watching him for Wales he's always making runs. I think it's harsh to judge all 3 because they hardly play, off course they look the pace when they start. That said I would sell James if it meant 20mil towards a Sancho type. Telles is a decent back and I've seen enough of VDB to believe he'll be a good player for us.
 

BFernandes

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Harsh on James. Thought he's had some decent moments at times and has a part to play, albeit it a limited one.

I'd sooner get rid of Jones (zero contribution and never available), De Gea (obscene wages), Mata (old and past it) and Williams (no-where near good enough)

In fact I'd go as far to say I feel James will make a more telling contribution in the next year to 18 months than someone like Telles who I've no clue why we've gone for.

If the move itself made Shaw pull his finger out it was a masterstroke, but I don't see this fantastic full back in Telles anywhere. Defensively he's all over the shop, constantly out of position and missing and this "wand" of a left foot? Haven't seen it too often.
 
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AltiUn

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So Telles and VdB are both being discussed in a thread about deadwood after their first season of PL football. Isn’t it Dan James’ first season at this level too?

Classic redcafe.
I don't think Telles or van de Beek is deadwood, Telles is absolutely fine as a back up and van de Beek simply just hasn't moulded with our style, we'll likely recoup most of the money we spent on him should we decide to sell.

Also, no it isn't Dan James's first season at this level, it's his second, signed him the same summer as Maguire and Wan-Bissaka.
 

AltiUn

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Harsh on James. Thought he's had some decent moments at times and has a part it play, albeit it a limited one.
It might seem harsh, and I think James can find his stride at another club but it's not often you see someone so obviously out of their depth here.
 

Fletchageddon

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Deadwood doesn't have to be because things have been run badly, squads naturally evolve, the quality improves, players regress, get older etc etc
THIS. 1000X THIS! The guy that started the thread is clearly a 5 year old football manager enthusiast. You need 23 players now. Only 11 can play. The other 12 are always going to be finding hard without regular game time.
 

Rozay

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Did we? Not looking good for him so. Although still early to be talking of him as deadwood. At the same age Mourinho was still lending Shaw his brain.
That is true, but blanket approach cannot be signed. The day Luke Shaw walked in to Old Trafford we knew he had the quality. The day Dan James walked in, it was questionable from then whether he was actually talented enough. If two years later, there has been no evidence that he is, it’s because he probably isn’t I’d say.

It’s a hard one, but I do get the impression we like to give players time under some sort of moniker that ‘we’re different’ - a ‘family club’, so to speak. If nothing else, James is very unlikely to be given the requisite game time if he stays here to show any improvement, and the smart money is on things continuing as they have gone I think. He’ll be about 4th or 5th choice, the likes of Amad will be prioritised ahead of him going forward, and he struggles to make match day squads as it is.
 

Gandalf

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Yes it's his second year. Excuses for him never stop though. I'm sure someone will come along and say he's, wait for it, lightening fast.
Not about excuses but I don't think deadwood is a fair term. He has been a useful squad player the past 2 seasons and chipped in with a few decent goals and assists which for a budget signing from the Championship does not merit the constant and frankly boring cries of "he is shit". At 23 and having only cost us 15m he can be sold on now for a profit quite easily as there are plenty of PL clubs who would take him. I think he needs to move on now as the squad is improving to a level at which he won't contribute much but he still represents a decent bit of business so far and is in no way comparable to the likes of Jones.
 

Eugenius

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Deadwood is such an overused phrase. If you sign 3-4 players a year and promote a couple of academy players there's always going to some natural churn in the squad.

Players like Dan James, Matic etc might be third choice in their position but at some point every season we will need them. A couple of long term injuries and playing twice a week means you need those sorts of player.

I can only think of Phil Jones as proper deadwood given he's 5th choice and it's been a couple of seasons since he had an actual run of games.
 

Offside

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What's the caf's issue with Telles? He's always looked like a good back-up to me.
 

UpWithRivers

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Problem is that Williams is our only back up RB, Matic is our only DM, James is our only natural winger as in get to the byline and cross and put in a defensive shift and Jones is head of the treatment room. And who's gonna do the hugs without Mata
 
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Deery

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Mata and Jones I would say are surplus to requirements and would free up about £200k a week if not more.

The rest I think are fine for squad numbers but we could be doing with a right back to help AWB out..
 

VeevaVee

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I know the phrase is thrown around a lot, but Phil Jones is genuinely stealing a living
 

Jezpeza

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Players we could probably do without:

De Gea
Romero
Grant
Pereira
Dalot
Jones
Tuanzabe
Matic
Mata
Pereira
Lingard
Chong

Expect several but not all of those to leave this summer.

Thats a mix for me of over the hill, out of contract, garbage, crocks, and surplus to requirements we could probably get some good cash for.

We have a great bunch of youth players at current. Theres really no need to have squad players sat round on mega wages who are literally 4th or 5th choice when one of those lads could step up to the bench or the odd cup tie.
 

MU655

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The most burdensome player are:

James: clearly out of his depth.
Jones: This guy just won't leave.
Bailly: How he got a new contract with his injury record just cannot be understood. Jones 2.0; perhaps actually worse.
Mata: Finished. Barely plays but we still pay him a lot of wages. Burden.
Matic: We would probably have to get rid of him to free up wages. So, he is a burden. Can be classified as deadwood.

Those with great potential:

De Beek: I won't classify him as deadwood, but there doesn't seem to be any signs of it working. He has great potential to be deadwood, though. Exciting prospect.
 

CM10

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I think the club is far more in control of the deadwood now than when Ole first took the job. Most players who fit that bill will be out of contract in the summer or moved on when they return from loans.

I guess what remains to be seen is how proactive or patient we'll be with players who could become deadwood. There's probably a few in the current squad who won't (or shouldn't) have a place here anymore if we recruit properly in the summer.
 

Vidyoyo

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What's the caf's issue with Telles? He's always looked like a good back-up to me.
Probably because the caf thinks every new player we get is the fecking tits for the first 3 months of their united career, with the next 3 months often beginning a slow realisation that they aren't as good as previously described.

As such, the reaction you end up with is a swing from over-hype to over-disappointed. It then becomes that way until at least a year or so afterwards, until we accept them as a squad player.

I personally agree with you that Telles just is. We need a back-up left back and I see no issue with him being it.
 

Diabovermelho

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From our loanees, we can cash in on Lingard, Pereira, Chong, Dalot. Let Mata and Jones leave for free. And from our first team we could sell Dan James, Matic and Tuanzebe, if we bring replacements RW, DM and CB. Brandon can go out on loan and we can bring a new RB as well.

De Gea and Martial will be impossible to sell. Huge wages and still a couple years left on their contracts. We can try to loan De Gea, similarly to what we've done with Alexis, paying part of the wages.

Donny and Telles won't leave. They can improve next season.
 

Flanders Devil

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Managing a squad and maintaining its quality is highly important for any club to be successful. Having been critical of Oles tactics before he's manages the actual squad well.

Lukaku people can debate over as he's still a quality CF but the likes of
Young
Sanchez
Lingard
Smalling
Pereira

We've done well to move on the above lot.

Having said we still have Mata and Jones who don't seem to really have a place in this team. And personally I see the following too who need to be looked at
James (she's shit)
Williams (regressed completely)
And now VDB (Liam Miller 2.0)

Of course I see an argument that players being given time but I also think smart clubs catch these situations and nip them in the bud. Sitting here two years from now wondering what the feck to do with James/Williams/VDB will be a collosal waste time and space in the squad.

Depressing thread but which players would you act on fast to avoid the same cycle repeating itself? For me the three I mentioned are looking like red flag.s
Whilst I don’t disagree with some of the individual analysis of players, what I would say is that the mind set that having dead wood is necessarily a bad thing should be changed.
Rather I think for us it’s a sign of progress, because every squad who strives to improve will naturally have deadwood. The progress indicator is ‘is this batch of deadwood better than the previous?’
Any good squad that became great got there by increasing the bar higher and higher. It’s when you do that you no longer accept an inferior level.
So for me, it’s a problem that every team will have all of the time...it’s just the caliber of player in this bucket that determines the quality of the squad.
 

Jezpeza

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What's the caf's issue with Telles? He's always looked like a good back-up to me.
I think because of what Man City have done and FIFA some people subscribe to the opinion you should have two insane players to rotate in every position.
 

Deery

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Tuanzebe is plenty good enough from what I’ve seen from him definitely not deadwood.
 

Jezpeza

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Tuanzebe is plenty good enough from what I’ve seen from him definitely not deadwood.
Not decided on him. I think he had a good game against PSG that gave him credit in the bank but is injury prone and has had some bad games since. Personally, at 23, he's neither here or there, not good enough to be a starter here and not going to get the games to develop. He's the same age as Ruben Dias as a benchmark. Personally as a bit part player I dont see what he would offer us next season that Menghi or Bernard wont now they have some professional games under their belt. Especially if we sign another cb he will be 5th choice, maybe even 6th if Jones comes back to the fold. Best for all parties if he moves on, IMO
 

Deery

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Not decided on him. I think he had a good game against PSG that gave him credit in the bank but is injury prone and has had some bad games since. Personally, at 23, he's neither here or there, not good enough to be a starter here and not going to get the games to develop. He's the same age as Ruben Dias as a benchmark. Personally as a bit part player I dont see what he would offer us next season that Menghi or Bernard wont now they have some professional games under their belt. Especially if we sign another cb he will be 5th choice, maybe even 6th if Jones comes back to the fold. Best for all parties if he moves on, IMO
I rate him much higher than that and if we sell him we’ll see another Micheal Keane, Johnny Evans case on our hands.

Fitness is the only issue I see with him but he can stay fit and play we’ve seen that with Aston Villa were he was much more composed than Mings and a big reason they got promoted.
 

united_99

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James is least of our problems. He is a decent young player for who we would get more money - from the likes of Leeds, Brighton, AV, etc. - than we bought him for, the moment we decide to sell him.
Which we will probably do if we get Sancho. Otherwise we need him with our regular injuries to our attacking players.

Mata, Pereira and Lingard have to leave.
Hopefully Bailly too if we sign a CB.
And hopefully Matic too if we sign a DM.

Telles and Williams are not deadwood, they are the only backups we have for our fullback positions. I also can’t see us upgrading on Williams with the other much more urgent needs we have in the squad.