Our managers actually are being backed.

Glideman

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Skills

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This has always been obvious - those numbers don't even take into account wages.

The contrary has always been a myth started by Mourinho to hide his own failings. Anyone who thinks Mourinho wasn't backed needs to think - what was adding Harry Maguire (to the team he had already assembled by the end of 17/18) going to achieve? Were we going to challenge Liverpool and Manchester City with Maguire in 18/19?

If the answer is no, why the feck not - considering the amount he had already spent on that squad? Why the feck not, when the club had bought him Matic and Sanchez (two players on his request - who have no long term value, but were there to win now).

Not signing Maguire, just gave him an easy out. And he used it to hoodwink a fanbase which loves nothing more than hero worshipping managers.
 

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Every Manager since SAF has been backed including Ole, just because we didn't sign Sancho doesn't mean he wasn't backed this Summer, and Ed Woodward was right to knock Mourinho back on Maguire because he'd turned his nose up at him a year previous when he was available for £17m so he was always going to refuse to pay £65m and Jose knew that.

If SAF had similar backing pre Glazers we'd have won several more Champions Leagues that's for sure.
 

dove

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Of course they are. "Manager X is not being backed" is just a very lazy excuse for our failing managers.
 

Toddler

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The problem is not the amount of money we've spent. Everybody should understand that. It's the personnel in our club spending it poorly (high wages, contracts, poor players etc). We are utter trash at selling as well, which affects our net spend and more over our buying of players.
 

AR87

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Ole was not backed this window, but it's also due to a combination of our bloated squad, much of which is due to the mismanagement of the squad under previous managers and poor contract negotiation by Woody and co, covid impacting financials, and the Glazers not being willing to put money into the club during a time where its finances have been hit by the pandemic.
 

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Cash spent on transfers doesnt always equal backing your manager.
Did Ole have VDB/another midfielder as his priority or a RW/CB. Mourinho was offered Fred or nothing that final summer
Who is making the final decisions and doing the negotiating?
Can managers sell who they want and spend on who they prioritise?
The club have spent a lot over the last few years. Doesnt feel the managers are fully backed though. LVG and Jose both conplained about it and no doubt Ole would if he wasnt so nice!
 

rotherham_red

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I'd say all of them but Ole (and Moyes) have been backed.

By this point in their tenures, Jose had broken the world transfer record and signed 8 players in total (the cheapest being £30m on Bailly) - all of which were signed pre-Neymar inflation. LvG meanwhile, had bought in 14.

Ole has got 9 but has had to ship out so many more which had not been replaced until later (and for most of them, they haven't been replaced). Maguire and AWB have been fantastic additions to the defence. Likewise Bruno in midfield. James is a punt who could go one way or another, but all in all, nothing much has been lost having him in the team.

Of the 5 who have been brought in this summer, there are only really two who you could say are really sufficient for the needs of the team (VdB and Telles). A further 2 are young hopes for the future, as opposed to players who are expected to come in and contribute right away, and the last one is essentially replacing Ighalo in the pecking order.

There's no way he wanted all those guys in, especially considering the gaping hole we had at RW which needed quality reinforcements years ago, and not two punts on untested kids.
 

red thru&thru

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I have been saying this for ages. We have spent shed loads. This shouldn't be what focus on.

Fans should be focusing on getting in the likes of Edwin in over Ed Woodward, so we can spend the money correctly and have the correct people doing the correct footballing jobs.
 

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I'd say all of them but Ole (and Moyes) have been backed.

By this point in their tenures, Jose had broken the world transfer record and signed 8 players in total (the cheapest being £30m on Bailly) - all of which were signed pre-Neymar inflation. LvG meanwhile, had bought in 14.

Ole has got 9 but has had to ship out so many more which had not been replaced until later (and for most of them, they haven't been replaced). Maguire and AWB have been fantastic additions to the defence. Likewise Bruno in midfield. James is a punt who could go one way or another, but all in all, nothing much has been lost having him in the team.

Of the 5 who have been brought in this summer, there are only really two who you could say are really sufficient for the needs of the team (VdB and Telles). A further 2 are young hopes for the future, as opposed to players who are expected to come in and contribute right away, and the last one is essentially replacing Ighalo in the pecking order.

There's no way he wanted all those guys in, especially considering the gaping hole we had at RW which needed quality reinforcements years ago, and not two punts on untested kids.
Great summary.
 

glazed

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Players are signed for their resale value and their marketing value. Not for their ability to fit into a title winning football team. The football ambition is quite clearly to make the top four and no more.
 

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Players are signed for their resale value and their marketing value. Not for their ability to fit into a title winning football team. The football ambition is quite clearly to make the top four and no more.
:lol:

Yeah there's whole load of marketing and resale value in signing Harry Maguire for £80m.
 

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Mourinho has a net spend of 30m at Spurs (47m this summer)
He has been backed
Ole hasn't.
Its not just the money.
 

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At least according to this.
Third most expensive squad in the world apparently, only behind petrol money owned City and Paris..



https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2020/wp308/en/
What it doesn’t highlight is they’ve backed the managers to get them to half way up the stairs. When the managers have wanted to climb the rest of the stairs to the top, they haven’t been backed then.

The fact we’ve spent so much probably highlights how little we’ve been in the top 4. I’d imagine the spending may have been a lot less if we achieved top 4 every year for the last 7 years.
 

devilish

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The Ole ins need to explain how on earth can the manager

a- goes in to Woodward's office and demand a new expensive CB after spending 130m (its actually 145m now thanks to Telles)
b- why on earth should United spend 100m on a RW when Greenwood is doing exceptionally well there + we've been courting Traore for over a year.
c- Why player's performances seem to go crap few months after our coaches had the time to work on them and they seem to improve once they leave the club.

Don't take me wrong, this club is run badly. However there's no denying that Ole has some explaining to do as well
 

el3mel

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Anyone who thinks Ole hasn't been backed because we didn't sign a 120m attacker must have a hard look at themselves in the mirror.
 

JPRouve

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I'd say all of them but Ole (and Moyes) have been backed.

By this point in their tenures, Jose had broken the world transfer record and signed 8 players in total (the cheapest being £30m on Bailly) - all of which were signed pre-Neymar inflation. LvG meanwhile, had bought in 14.

Ole has got 9 but has had to ship out so many more which had not been replaced until later (and for most of them, they haven't been replaced). Maguire and AWB have been fantastic additions to the defence. Likewise Bruno in midfield. James is a punt who could go one way or another, but all in all, nothing much has been lost having him in the team.

Of the 5 who have been brought in this summer, there are only really two who you could say are really sufficient for the needs of the team (VdB and Telles). A further 2 are young hopes for the future, as opposed to players who are expected to come in and contribute right away, and the last one is essentially replacing Ighalo in the pecking order.

There's no way he wanted all those guys in, especially considering the gaping hole we had at RW which needed quality reinforcements years ago, and not two punts on untested kids.
Who are these players that Ole has had to ship out against his will?
 

rotherham_red

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The Ole ins need to explain how on earth can the manager

a- goes in to Woodward's office and demand a new expensive CB after spending 130m (its actually 145m now thanks to Telles)
b- why on earth should United spend 100m on a RW when Greenwood is doing exceptionally well there + we've been courting Traore for over a year.
c- Why player's performances seem to go crap few months after our coaches had the time to work on them and they seem to improve once they leave the club.

Don't take me wrong, this club is run badly. However there's no denying that Ole has some explaining to do as well
a) because the previous managers left the defence in a horrible state which needed urgent rectification. The fact that he got that defence from being the 11th best in the league, to 3rd (only 3 behind Liverpool) alone should tell you how good a job those purchases have done thus far. However, it also tells you that more needs to be done to ensure that it's the best, as opposed to 3rd.
b) because Greenwood in the long-term is a striker, and not a RW. He doesn't play that role in the same manner as a proper RW does. We need a player who has the flexibility to go both ways there (down the byline and cutting inside to shoot), which we don't have on the left with Rashford, and which we don't currently have with Greenwood. Diallo looks like he might have the raw tools and talent for it, but we still need an experienced player there right now. We should be looking to replicate the depth that City have in those positions (Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, Torres, Foden, Bernardo) - we simply don't have that right now (or if we do, then it requires both Pellistri and Diallo making it which is very risky)
c) I think it's too early to say if it's a serious problem. It's been three games where the players have not had a preseason, but no excuses for the sort of performances we saw against Spurs. Managers have been sacked for them in the past. Hopefully Telles can fix that issue at LB and give Shaw a serious kick up the arse. VdB should now be coming in for Pogba, as he burnt through his credit during that Spurs game. Hopefully no Martial should also mean that we see a new system being tried out vs Newcastle. If we can make those changes, we might just see the tide turning.
 

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Of course they're backed. It's an awful excuse that only became popular after Ole came in and is used to completely ignore his shortcomings. Glazers & Woodward are easy and obvious targets as fans have no emotional connection with them like they do with Ole. You can clearly see this as blaming them was not that popular under Moyes, LVG or Mourinho either. Those fans are not honest to accept and say that Ole is a Championship level manager and his signings(maybe other than 1 or 2) are also complete disasters so it's easy to guess their reaction:

When things going good : praise Ole and give him all the credit even about things that he has no influence on

When things going bad : blame Glazers & Woodward no matter what

Make no mistake about it; Glazers are leeches and Woodward is a clueless clown and I don't have any sympathy for them & I want them out too but from some of the fans' reaction you'd think they are Mike Ashley or Arsenal owners under Wenger who doesn't give enough money to improve the squad. Well they're not. The amount of money we spend in the last 7 years is absolutely ridiculous.
 

Adnan

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They've all been backed and bought poorly. Ole for instance was backed in his first full season to the tune of £150m and even inherited Mason Greenwood. But he wasted those funds on players that don't fit into a proactive play style and now we can't play high pressure football.

And now he's still wanting a new CB after breaking the world transfer record on one who is a liability in a high line due to his inability to defend space.

Ole quite simply has made a rod for his own back after the £150m outlay on AWB, Maguire and James. All the managers have been backed.

Now the problem isn't that they haven't been backed, but rather why the feck does the club not seperate the coaching side from the recruitment..
 

rotherham_red

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Who are these players that Ole has had to ship out against his will?
I didn't say it was against his will.

I said he shipped them out but they in turn needed replacing which hasn't as yet, happened, or if it has happened, it's only happened in the last 6 months (Bruno) or in the last week (Telles, Pellistri, Diallo), the latter of which is too early to say either way.

Even if kids like Greenwood, Rashford, Martial, Williams etc stepped in for those players who left, players still needed to be brought in to replace the roles that the aforementioned kids had before they stepped in to the breach. We've seen what's happened when those players are played constantly, and it isn't pretty. That is when those reinforcements were needed.

I'd say GK, Midfield, maybe LW, and now LB (possibly RB too, though that's dependent on how Williams is over there) are the only spots where you can say we have proper cover.

CB is dependent on Axel and Bailly keeping fit (I'm hoping for a miracle in at least one of those cases). LW is pretty much Rashford or bust (maybe James can kick on). ST is dependent upon Cavani suddenly turning back the clock 2 years to provide that quality cover for Martial, and RW is still so untested.
 

rotherham_red

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They've all been backed and bought poorly. Ole for instance was backed in his first full season to the tune of £150m and even inherited Mason Greenwood. But he wasted those funds on players that don't fit into a proactive play style and now we can't play high pressure football.

And now he's still wanting a new CB after breaking the world transfer record on one who is a liability in a high line due to his inability to defend space.

Ole quite simply has made a rod for his own back after the £150m outlay on AWB, Maguire and James. All the managers have been backed.

Now the problem isn't that they haven't been backed, but rather why the feck does the club not seperate the coaching side from the recruitment..
Maguire and AWB have not been poor at all. It's nothing less than recency bias if you are suggesting that. They've more than played their part in our defence going from 11th to 3rd in one season.
 

devilish

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a) because the previous managers left the defence in a horrible state which needed urgent rectification. The fact that he got that defence from being the 11th best in the league, to 3rd (only 3 behind Liverpool) alone should tell you how good a job those purchases have done thus far. However, it also tells you that more needs to be done to ensure that it's the best, as opposed to 3rd.
b) because Greenwood in the long-term is a striker, and not a RW. He doesn't play that role in the same manner as a proper RW does. We need a player who has the flexibility to go both ways there (down the byline and cutting inside to shoot), which we don't have on the left with Rashford, and which we don't currently have with Greenwood. Diallo looks like he might have the raw tools and talent for it, but we still need an experienced player there right now. We should be looking to replicate the depth that City have in those positions (Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, Torres, Foden, Bernardo) - we simply don't have that right now (or if we do, then it requires both Pellistri and Diallo making it which is very risky)
c) I think it's too early to say if it's a serious problem. It's been three games where the players have not had a preseason, but no excuses for the sort of performances we saw against Spurs. Managers have been sacked for them in the past. Hopefully Telles can fix that issue at LB and give Shaw a serious kick up the arse. VdB should now be coming in for Pogba, as he burnt through his credit during that Spurs game. Hopefully no Martial should also mean that we see a new system being tried out vs Newcastle. If we can make those changes, we might just see the tide turning.
a- Half of that defence is actually Ole's. He spent 50M on Tackles despite the player have no idea how to move the ball forward. He also spent 80m on tortoise who seem to have left his fighting spirit in Greece. That's 130m on 2 players who aren't even remotely WC players.

b- Greenwood is doing well on the RW and we've already have Martial upfront. The only way Greenwood can play on a first team basis is by staying on the flank. We also signed some top quality young players upfront (Hugill and Mcneill) and on the flanks (Pellistri and Traore) which means that Greenwood's position is up in the air. Regarding City, forget about us ever competing against them financially. We're not financed by a country. If we did then I very much doubt Ole would be at the wheel either. I mean they got a treble winner as manager not someone who got sacked at Cardiff.

c- But it is. 11 goals in 3 games is a concern especially considering the opposition we played against. The bad results started prior to that though. We lost against Sevilla, we barely scrapped through against Copenhagen, penalto got us our win against Brighton and we lost against Palace.
 

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Maguire and AWB have not been poor at all. It's nothing less than recency bias if you are suggesting that. They've more than played their part in our defence going from 11th to 3rd in one season.
They have played their part but in a defense that is low block and not in a high line. Maguire is a liability in a high line and AWB is a ticking time bomb against teams who want to press high.

Both players are unsuited to playing the high pressure game Solskjaer implemented at Molde, and the one he talks about implementing at United. In almost 2 years in the job he hasn't even come close to implementing his favoured high press and we will now go back to playing deep block, reactive football, because he's bought the wrong players for his preferred play style IMO.
 
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JPRouve

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I didn't say it was against his will.

I said he shipped them out but they in turn needed replacing which hasn't as yet, happened, or if it has happened, it's only happened in the last 6 months (Bruno) or in the last week (Telles, Pellistri, Diallo), the latter of which is too early to say either way.

Even if kids like Greenwood, Rashford, Martial, Williams etc stepped in for those players who left, players still needed to be brought in to replace the roles that the aforementioned kids had before they stepped in to the breach. We've seen what's happened when those players are played constantly, and it isn't pretty. That is when those reinforcements were needed.

I'd say GK, Midfield, maybe LW, and now LB (possibly RB too, though that's dependent on how Williams is over there) are the only spots where you can say we have proper cover.

CB is dependent on Axel and Bailly keeping fit (I'm hoping for a miracle in at least one of those cases). LW is pretty much Rashford or bust (maybe James can kick on). ST is dependent upon Cavani suddenly turning back the clock 2 years to provide that quality cover for Martial, and RW is still so untested.
Which is the issue, you can't claim that he hasn't been backed and that he has had to ship out players if it wasn't against his will. He spent 200m on the three players that you highlighted, he had the money to replace the players that he sold but chose to concentrate a huge amount of money on three players. What you showed is that Ole has been backed but that his decisions weren't the ones you would have taken.
 

el3mel

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Of course they're backed. It's an awful excuse that only became popular after Ole came in and is used to completely ignore his shortcomings. Glazers & Woodward are easy and obvious targets as fans have no emotional connection with them like they do with Ole. You can clearly see this as blaming them was not that popular under Moyes, LVG or Mourinho either. Those fans are not honest to accept and say that Ole is a Championship level manager and his signings(maybe other than 1 or 2) are also complete disasters so it's easy to guess their reaction:

When things going good : praise Ole and give him all the credit even about things that he has no influence on

When things going bad : blame Glazers & Woodward no matter what

Make no mistake about it; Glazers are leeches and Woodward is a clueless clown and I don't have any sympathy for them & I want them out too but from some of the fans' reaction you'd think they are Mike Ashley or Arsenal owners under Wenger who doesn't give enough money to improve the squad. Well they're not. The amount of money we spend in the last 7 years is absolutely ridiculous.
Before Ole the Caf were telling us the buck stops with the manager. Now with Ole in charge it's everyone's else fault bar the manager. Pretty weird really.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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A lot of clubs don't get the quantity and quality of players they target in a window. United fans are the ones that makes the loudest noise when that happens
 

el3mel

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I'm confident those who're claiming someone like Cavani isn't Ole's signing because he's 33 will be the same who will say it's a masterstroke of a signing by Ole by December when he proves he's a good player.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I'm confident those who're claiming someone like Cavani isn't Ole's signing because he's 33 will be the same who will say it's a masterstroke of a signing by Ole by December when he proves he's a good player.
I hope he does but it's big if he proves he's a good player not when
 

Ikon

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Cash spent on transfers doesnt always equal backing your manager.
There is more to "backing the Manager" than just randomly throwing money about.
It means supporting the manager's philosophy, as far as realistically possible, and providing him with all needs/wants, again, as far as realistically possible.
Solskjaer's (generally accepted) shopping list of: Koulibaly, Haaland, Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano, Bruno, Bellingham possibly Alcantara & Chilwell...
How many have the board delivered for him?

Now I'm not saying give him a Billion to spend and go get all of his top targets, but the board are just not getting any of his targets for him.
It just seems that there is a constant stream of alternatives and make do's because the board fail time and time again to get deals concluded, often because of some perceived financial matter, and are the alternatives even players that Solskjaer rates?

United do spend plenty of money, they just often spend it very, very badly, and there's one common demoninator for that.
 

Skills

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There is more to "backing the Manager" than just randomly throwing money about.
It means supporting the manager's philosophy, as far as realistically possible, and providing him with all needs/wants, again, as far as realistically possible.
Solskjaer's (generally accepted) shopping list of: Koulibaly, Haaland, Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano, Bruno, Bellingham possibly Alcantara & Chilwell...
How many have the board delivered for him?

Now I'm not saying give him a Billion to spend and go get all of his top targets, but the board are just not getting any of his targets for him.
It just seems that there is a constant stream of alternatives and make do's because the board fail time and time again to get deals concluded, often because of some perceived financial matter, and are the alternatives even players that Solskjaer rates?

United do spend plenty of money, they just often spend it very, very badly, and there's one common demoninator for that.
Christ, why do you even need a manager after that point?
 

Acquire Me

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I'd say all of them but Ole (and Moyes) have been backed.

By this point in their tenures, Jose had broken the world transfer record and signed 8 players in total (the cheapest being £30m on Bailly) - all of which were signed pre-Neymar inflation. LvG meanwhile, had bought in 14.

Ole has got 9 but has had to ship out so many more which had not been replaced until later (and for most of them, they haven't been replaced). Maguire and AWB have been fantastic additions to the defence. Likewise Bruno in midfield. James is a punt who could go one way or another, but all in all, nothing much has been lost having him in the team.

Of the 5 who have been brought in this summer, there are only really two who you could say are really sufficient for the needs of the team (VdB and Telles). A further 2 are young hopes for the future, as opposed to players who are expected to come in and contribute right away, and the last one is essentially replacing Ighalo in the pecking order.

There's no way he wanted all those guys in, especially considering the gaping hole we had at RW which needed quality reinforcements years ago, and not two punts on untested kids.
Well said.
 

Stretender

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I have been saying this for ages. We have spent shed loads. This shouldn't be what focus on.

Fans should be focusing on getting in the likes of Edwin in over Ed Woodward, so we can spend the money correctly and have the correct people doing the correct footballing jobs.
Very good point. We have alot of problems to deal with at United,but the biggest of them all is Woodward.

I want the Glazers to spend more money on United but the money they have spent so far is enough for United to mount a title challenge or at least be in a title race. However, this money has not been spent wisely, the reason being Woodward and his stooges Judge and Arnold have little understanding of football.

We can easily bounce back from these dire years if the Glazers could just replace Woodward with a competent football person. You can't be making the same mistakes for 7 years and expect things to get better when the architect of the said mistakes is still in the job.
Woodward sits there in the executive box at Old Trafford, he doesn't even feel embarrassed having his face beamed to the rest of the world, a face which represents everything wrong at the football club for the past seven years.

No manager will succeed with Woodward in charge and if he loves the club, just move over and let someone like Van Der Sar do the job.
 

Adnan

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There is more to "backing the Manager" than just randomly throwing money about.
It means supporting the manager's philosophy, as far as realistically possible, and providing him with all needs/wants, again, as far as realistically possible.
Solskjaer's (generally accepted) shopping list of: Koulibaly, Haaland, Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano, Bruno, Bellingham possibly Alcantara & Chilwell...
How many have the board delivered for him?

Now I'm not saying give him a Billion to spend and go get all of his top targets, but the board are just not getting any of his targets for him.
It just seems that there is a constant stream of alternatives and make do's because the board fail time and time again to get deals concluded, often because of some perceived financial matter, and are the alternatives even players that Solskjaer rates?

United do spend plenty of money, they just often spend it very, very badly, and there's one common demoninator for that.
What's the managers philosophy?